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Rat Poison in Menu Foods?

One Beagle Girl
March 23rd, 2007, 11:27 AM
ABC News U.S.

March 23, 2007 ABC News has learned that investigators have determined that a rodent-killing chemical is the toxin in the tainted pet food that has killed several animals.

A source close to the investigation tells ABC News that the rodenticide, which the source says is illegal to use in the United States, was on wheat that was imported from China and used by Menu Foods in nearly 100 brands of dog and cat food.

here's a link to the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2975912&page=1&US=true

I have no words for this.

Hunter's_owner
March 23rd, 2007, 11:31 AM
Oh my...that is horrible:sad: :mad: :sad:

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 11:34 AM
omg! :sad: :sad: How do they know the other foods are safe then?

technodoll
March 23rd, 2007, 11:39 AM
oh my freaking GAWD... :eek: :eek: :eek:

mafiaprincess
March 23rd, 2007, 11:41 AM
Gee have a lot of trust in all those good brands using menu foods now...
Nice quality control and cleaning processes...

One Beagle Girl
March 23rd, 2007, 11:45 AM
There's going to be a news conference this afternoon.

This whole thing makes me sick.

:mad:

technodoll
March 23rd, 2007, 11:48 AM
"we use Menu plants to make our foods but we don't use wheat gluten, the contaminated product" - now all that marketing spin looks pretty stupid, eh? SHAME on them!!! :mad:

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 11:51 AM
:sad: :sad: :sad: I hope people stop thinking that the major pet food companies (or even the little ones) are in it for the animals after this.:sad:

THREE months! Three months of tainted supply.

Whatever happened to Canada's wheat? Why did a Toronto-based company buy wheat from China?

krdahmer
March 23rd, 2007, 11:51 AM
:eek: :eek: :eek: :frustrated:

technodoll
March 23rd, 2007, 11:56 AM
Whatever happened to Canada's wheat? Why did a Toronto-based company buy wheat from China?

easy. it's cheaper :sad:

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 11:59 AM
The head of the lab that did the taste testing that killed 8 animals confirmed that 1/6 of the lab animals died from the food. How then can they justify parading this "15" number to all of us? How can there be 7 animals out of the MILLIONS who are eating those poisoned foods when there are 8 in one small lab who died? And I bet those 8 were healthier and younger than most of the pets out there eating this food.

This is just terrible. Time for food companies to stop "spinning" and become open books. If Cape Cod potato chips can let you tour their factories without killing anybody, why can't dog food companies do the same? Why can't they just be honest!? Or if that's too hard, then SLIGHTLY honest!? :yell: :sad:

Scott_B
March 23rd, 2007, 12:03 PM
Its all about confirmed deaths. All the reported deaths arent confirmed by I assume the FDA. I still think they should be reporting at least how many suspected cases there are.

mummummum
March 23rd, 2007, 12:06 PM
From

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/195391

Mar 23, 2007 11:56 AM
canadian press

ALBANY, N.Y. Rodent poison has been found in pet food made by a Canadian company blamed for the deaths of at least 16 cats and dogs, a spokeswoman for the U.S State Department of Agriculture and Markets said Friday.

Spokeswoman Jessica Chittenden would not identify the chemical or its source beyond saying it was a rodent poison.

State agriculture officials scheduled a news conference Friday afternoon to release laboratory findings from tests on the pet food conducted this week.

The deaths led to a recall of 60 million cans and pouches of pet food produced by Menu Foods (TSX: MEW.UN) and sold throughout North America under 95 brand names. There have been reports of kidney failure, some fatal, in pets that ate the recalled brands. The company has confirmed the deaths of 15 cats and one dog.

Stock in Menu foods shot up more than 26 per cent after the announcement, gaining $1.04 to $4.94 on the Toronto Stock Exchange. Units of the fund had been beaten down from $7.40 a week earlier before the recall was announced.

The company, whose headquarters are in Mississauga, Ont., last week recalled "cuts and gravy" style dog and cat food. The recall sparked concern among pet owners across North America. It includes food sold under store brands carried by Wal-Mart, Kroger, Safeway and other large retailers, as well as private labels such as Iams, Nutro and Eukanuba.

A complete list of the recalled products along with product codes, descriptions and production dates was available from the Menu Foods Web site: http://tinyurl.com/2pn6mm.

The company also designated two phone numbers that pet owners could call for information (866) 463-6738 and (866) 895-2708.

The company also makes foods for zoo cats, but those products are unaffected by the recall.

The company's chief executive and president said Menu Foods delayed announcing the recall until it could confirm that the animals had eaten its product before dying. Two earlier complaints from consumers whose cats had died involved animals that lived outside or had access to a garage, which left open the possibility they had been poisoned by something other than contaminated food, he said.

Wheat gluten itself would not cause kidney failure, but the common ingredient could have been contaminated by heavy metals or mold toxins, the FDA said.

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 12:09 PM
:confused: They added the new info to the old article?

I hate how they say Canada all of that but don't say where the food was actually made, because it wasn't made in Canada, was it?

Cram
March 23rd, 2007, 12:11 PM
Amazing. I just posted the link in the pet recall thread in Dog Health section (without knowing about the thread here). I am also angry about the whole using imported wheat for their foods, but not surprised. Still, I'm perhaps not as angry at the natural pet food companies like Natura and Wellness because they don't use such crappy ingredients and I understand the need to out source canned products, but hopefully now they'll realize they should let their contract with Menu run out and chose a different manufacturer for their canned product- preferably a smaller one and not such a huge conglomerate, despite their good past record (which is clearly shattered now). I want to continue to support these manufacturers because I don't want to lose all of the options for pet food we have now, but I also don't want them to continue to use Menu.

That said, it makes me feel better about supporting a Canadian and local company that uses regional, human grade ingredients in their foods (Orijen) and I'm excited to try them out. Another regional pet food manufacturer has just started up in Saskatchewan, so we'll be trying their grain-free product as well when it becomes available.

I'm so so sorry for everyone who will be affected by this. It's an absolutely terrible thing to have to go through and Menu foods should be held responsible.

mummummum
March 23rd, 2007, 12:16 PM
:confused: They added the new info to the old article?


I don't know Prin, I didn't see the original Star article. I just checked the FDA and the Menu websites ~ neither have been updated.

kathryn
March 23rd, 2007, 12:17 PM
As soon as I saw the story on ABC I came here nad posted it right away. This is too horrible!! Are they too stupid to clean the wheat before processing? This seems so ridiculously stupid!! and they purposly fed the contaminated food to lab cats/dogs is what still really gets me.. the pet food industry needs to be more regulated now!!

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 12:18 PM
This part is from the original article around the 16th of March, before they knew anything... The company's chief executive and president said Menu Foods delayed announcing the recall until it could confirm that the animals had eaten its product before dying. Two earlier complaints from consumers whose cats had died involved animals that lived outside or had access to a garage, which left open the possibility they had been poisoned by something other than contaminated food, he said.

Wheat gluten itself would not cause kidney failure, but the common ingredient could have been contaminated by heavy metals or mold toxins, the FDA said.

I don't know why they left that in there...

Spirit
March 23rd, 2007, 12:56 PM
Does no one remember that whole hullabaloo about IAMS funding animal experiments/testing? After that, I can't believe how popular this food still is, or how so many people can still think it's top of the line quality! Marketing makes money. Sadly.

This wheat glutten thing has been going on for much longer than 3 months. The animals who died after testing, happened back in december. Of course it was all covered up, and now it's reason is still trying to remain protected. Contaminated wheat glutten from China now? Uh huh. :rolleyes:

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 02:03 PM
I don't understand, a day ago they didn't know it was rat poison, why are they only recalling wet food? How do they know the dry food is not affected if they didn't even know what was causing it as of 12 hours ago??

rainbow
March 23rd, 2007, 02:04 PM
Greedy, friggin bastids, importing wheat from China. :yell:

And, I hate how they always make their announcements on a Friday. :yell: I'll bet they knew this earlier this week. :rolleyes: :mad:

Shamrock
March 23rd, 2007, 02:37 PM
UN-believable! Rat poison, and wheat from China! Hadnt heard this news.. will watch the news conference.
I dont even know what to say....:mad: It's all too much.. :sad:

As they switched in Dec. apparently.. where did they get their wheat from before, I wonder?
It's all about profit...:evil:

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 02:39 PM
I just called Menu foods and asked if it was possible that dry food was contaminated... The answer was "I have no information on that." Then I asked if it has been excluded?? "No" !!!

They also told me they have no information on the timetable. It could be any foods made at Menu at any time.

Okay, so what I need now from you guys is a list of dry foods not made at Menu plants (is Wellness for sure made at Menu foods???).

Also, I have heard about a way of switching a dog over to a new food using a method of feeding a very small amount of food... any info on this would be appreciated.

rainbow
March 23rd, 2007, 03:16 PM
I answered your questions in the other thread you posted. :)

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 05:43 PM
thanks rainbow :)

does anyone know what was said at the press conference?

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 05:47 PM
lol I answered that in another thread.:D

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=38153
(well, it's mainly the sciency part, not the corporate part, though)

wmarcello
March 23rd, 2007, 05:48 PM
Whatever happened to Canada's wheat? Why did a Toronto-based company buy wheat from China?

I wouldn't be surprised if most of Canada's wheat gets exported. We do it with a lot of different products, like our wood. We have some of the best wood in the world, but very little of it stays here. I was in the Dominican recently as well, and I've heard the same thing happens there with their cigars. It would definitely explain why their cigars are cheaper in Canada then they are in their own country.

normag
March 23rd, 2007, 06:11 PM
I am sick to my stomach with all of this, Im thinking of going back to the old ways, when I was a kid the dog/cat ate the same food we did, my mom filled there bowls the same time she made are plates up.

CyberKitten
March 23rd, 2007, 08:06 PM
First, re articles online often have info added - it is a different world out theree now. You can read a Globe and Mail article for ex and in a few hrs, new info is added. Much different than in the old days when newspapers had to wait until the next day to "print" their material. Now - virtually at least, they can scoop their broadcast counterparts - but with 24 hrs nes channels, that is a whole different situation as well.

Now, as to the other - it all makes me ill too!!!! This is a poison not used that much in North America - and not what we think of when we think of rat poison if we ponder it all which I don't. No rats and my cats don't chase mice either. (which is prob just as well!)

The ingredient is actually Aminopterin and I was somewhat scandalized to realize I know of it as an antineoplastic medication used in chemo in for certain types of cancer!! In fact, it was developed by Sidney Farber, a hero among pediatric oncologists because he developed many of the drugs that created the modern age of chemo, especially in relation to childhood leukemia! Think of the Dana Farber Institute in Boston - he was not weven an oncologist - was in fact an pathologist at Children's in Boston where I did ,my Residencies in pediatrics and hematology and my PhD in biochem. He is actually called the father of modern chemotherapy!

Tjhis medication is not used much now in Noetrh America - we have better medications but he was the first to show chemo could actually bring about remission in pediatric leukemia - which is a large part of my work so I am in shock to think it is THIS substance that is causing all this havoc!!! I was there long after the clinical trials of the drug at Harvard but it is a well known medication!!

Amazing to think of it as rat poision!! I gather they must use it as such in Europe or somewhere? Granted, tylenol would prob kill rats as well come to think of it. So I am at a loss to understand why they are calling it rat poison when we don't use it here for that - we don't really use it at all now. It would be akin to say using some really strong anesthetics when much better ones are available now.

As an aside, it was also used in the US (not sure about Canada - not where I live I know) to induce abortions in pregnant women.

I can see how it would kill animals - it seriously affects the immune system - as many neoplastic drugs do but also inhibits the growth of cancer cells. It was going out of vogue when I started to practice and I myself have never used it. But it will not kill people but where pets are so small, it would wreck havoc- as it obviously has- with their tiny little systems - and cause renal failure and God knows what else. Everything I know tells me it is not just renal failure. Even causing probs to a cat or dog who had been ill before might be seriously affected by this drug in the future. Scary stuff!!!!!!

I read that the CEO of the company (Paul Henderson - that's not THE PH is it????) said they would take responsibility for bvet bills if it can be proven it was their company's product that caused the illness. But I think that's easy for him to say - it is going to up to ppl to do that and with this medication, I can see all sorts of things happening that are even more than kidney disease and even less dangerous illnesses that may overall affect a pet's life time. Gawd!!! I can't believe this!

mafiaprincess
March 23rd, 2007, 08:22 PM
Not just wet food anymore?

http://www.itchmo.com/read/several-unconfirmed-reports-of-iams-dry-food-causing-illness_20070323

budboybudboy77
March 23rd, 2007, 08:55 PM
The thing is why are these companies using wheat from China , really things over there are far far far from sanitary for people ,never mind animals!!

They are a communist country with strict working rules and I don't think the safety concerns have ever crossed there minds.They work for tiny wages.

We don't have wheat here or in Mexico??

In the mean time why are North American companies doing this to our animals who can we trust now.

I find it terrible , I have spent alot on vet bills the past 4 months since my dog was diagnosed with cancer and I surely don't want him to die from dog food!

I love him more than the world and these companies need to think more about safety , quality and security than saving a few bucks because China is cheaper!!!!!

Thks for reading.

worrier
March 24th, 2007, 11:57 AM
SHOCKING!

Menu Foods has said that it first heard reports of a problem from callers in mid-February and that nine cats died as a result of subsequent company taste tests.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/24/us/24petfood.html

So 9 cats die. "Testing" starts. A month later food is recalled. Within a a few days of the recall, independent physicians pinpoint problem. So they must have known it was rat poison when they recalled the food, and if they didn't, maybe they should have taken those initial calls seriously and brought those deceased animals to competent labs? Who knows how many little guys would have lived as a result. Disregard for the life of pets at every level of this company, from the people who approved Chinese wheat to the people that wanted to save face instead of spreading the word as quickly as possible (maybe the same people?). I say boycott any company that associates with this type of disregard. :pawprint:

budboybudboy77
March 24th, 2007, 01:52 PM
I agree these companies should close completely , I don't care how many jobs are lost this is no way to run things anyways.

sgrenard
March 25th, 2007, 01:41 PM
A few facts re all of the above:

1. Menu Foods does not make its different branded dog and cat foods in Canada. Canada is only where the fat cats , the investors, and corporate hq is. It solely exists to maximize profits for investors.

2. Menu foods are actually mfg in the United States. In Kansas and in New Jersey. I have ridden past the NJ plant and the smell is so bad we had to break the speed limit to get away from it.

3. It is amazing this company is making deals to buy wheat product from China when China has a billion people who sure could use it to make flour to make noodles, gravies, "pancakes" etc. Also while the U.S. pays its farmers NOT to grow wheat, thanks to Menu, Americans are buying the stuff from China. It makes no sense until you figure out they are saving a few dollars per ton.

4. The FDA in the U.S. is supposed to regulate pet as well as human foods.

The USDA regulates feed fed to farm animals but not pets. The FDA allows
byproducts such as brain tissue and spinal cord tissue into pet foods that the USDA does not allow in farm animal feed! Cats can get and have gotten and died from prion diseases due to this. Difficult to diagnose, these cats and the contaminated food they are fed are a constant source of income for vets and pet food companies.

I stopped feeding my surviving dog any kind of pet food, dry or wet, a little over a year ago. My vet would recommend against this. I wonder what he's saying now.

My first rottie died from malnutrition because he vomited every pet food including vet recommended products. The vet said it was his liver. It was his liver alright, it was overwhelmed by toxins I was paying for a dishing out. My second rottie started vomiting a year ago and I stopped the pet foods, all of them, and guess what: he stopped vomiting and gained back the weight he was losing and is just fine thanks to human meatloaf, hamburgers, baked potato, and chicken cutlets.Dogs will eat anything including (for dry component) breakfast cereals meant for humans. I appreciate cat owners are more challenged.

Pet foods are just a convenience for pet owners who don't want to cook and chop up food for their animals and rather just dump it out of the can or bag. If your dog or cat is truly a member of your family you will cook for them or get take out!

My two cents. I don't trust any pet foods, wet, dry, gravies, special cuts, whatever anymore.

sgrenard
March 25th, 2007, 11:56 PM
PET FOOD FATALITIES, PETS - USA, CANADA, MEXICO (02): AMINOPTERIN
***********************************************
A ProMED-mail post
<http://www.promedmail.org>
ProMED-mail is a program of the
International Society for Infectious Diseases
<http://www.isid.org>

[1]
Date: 24 Mar 2007
From: ProMED-mail <promed@promedmail.org>
Source: AVMA [edited]
<http://www.avma.org/aa/menufoodsrecall/veterinarian_info_acvim.asp>


Menu Foods pet food recall
------------------------------
AMERICAN COLLEGE OF VETERINARY INTERNAL MEDICINE (ACVIM) <http://www.acvim.org>

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 24 Mar 2007

PET FOOD RECALL: UPDATED INFORMATION FOR VETERINARIANS

In response to the recent national pet food recall, the American
College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (ACVIM) has collected the
following information for veterinarians in regards to the treatment
of animals that have ingested the recalled food.

* On Fri 23 Mar 2007 a press release from the New York State
Department of Agriculture and Markets
<http://www.agmkt.state.ny.us/release> stated that the New York State
Agriculture Commissioner Patrick Hooker and Cornell University's
College of Veterinary Medicine Dean Donald F. Smith announced that
scientists at the New York State Food Laboratory identified
Aminopterin as a toxin present in cat food samples from Menu Foods,
the manufacturer of the many brands of dog and cat food that are
currently the subject of a nationwide recall.

* The Food Laboratory received the pet food samples from a
toxicologist at the New York State Animal Health Diagnostic Center at
Cornell University, where testing has been underway to try to
identify the cause of kidney failure in dogs and cats that consumed
the recalled brands of pet food. At Cornell's request, the Food
Laboratory tested the samples for poisons and toxins, and identified
Aminopterin in the pet food samples at a level of at least 40 parts
per million.

* Aminopterin is a folic acid inhibitor found in some rodenticides
available outside the USA. It is not available in the US as a
rodenticide. Aminopterin is a 4-amino analog of folic acid. It was
originally used as an antineoplastic agent in the late 1940's but has
been superseded by methotrexate, a related but less toxic folic acid
analog. At high doses, methotrexate results in acute renal failure
and crystalluria due to deposition of 7-hydroxymethotrexate in the
renal tubules. Aminopterin toxicity is thought to be similar and dose
dependent.

* These findings and any relationship to recent pet deaths have not
been confirmed by the Food and Drug Administration. An announcement
from the FDA is forthcoming. We need to be cautious, as the finding
of Aminopterin is significant, but there could be other compounds yet
unknown in the diet as well.

* Recommendations for testing animals have essentially not changed.
There is no blood test available for Aminopterin. Pets that have
eaten the recalled food whether showing signs of illness (lethargy,
vomiting, diarrhea, anorexia, etc.) or asymptomatic should be seen by
their veterinarian and have a complete blood count, biochemistry
panel and urinalysis performed. Additional testing may include
assessment for significant proteinuria, urine culture, imaging, etc.

* Treatment recommendations have not changed. According to Dr.
Richard E. Goldstein DVM DACVIM DECVIM-CA, Associate Professor of
Medicine at Cornell University, azotemic pets should be treated with
fluids to promote hydration, and diuresis in order to dissolve and
flush out crystals from the tubules. Aminopterin produces crystals
within the renal tubules that are most soluble in an alkaline urine
pH thus a target urine pH above 7 (achieved with fluid therapy and
alkalinizing agents including sodium bicarbonate) might be beneficial
in managing these patients. Several medications such as antioxidants
and folic acid may be administered, but their true beneficial affects
are unproven when given long after the initial exposure to the toxin.

* Bone-marrow suppression is a concern with any folic acid inhibiting
agent, and a complete blood cell count should be monitored in these
patients as well as renal function.

* If a patient with anuric or oliguric acute renal failure is not
responding to appropriate therapy, veterinarians should promptly
consider contacting a small animal internist with the American
College of Veterinary Internal Medicine <http://www.ACVIM.org> in
their local community for case consultation and possible referral.
Hemodialysis can be utilized for severely affected patients and is
available at a limited number of veterinary teaching hospitals.

* Duration of treatment in patients which may have renal failure due
to ingestion of the recalled food is unknown at this time and
obviously will vary between patients. Long term effects on renal
function are unknown but based on limited experience to date, at
least partial renal recovery is anticipated. Patients succumbing to
illness should be necropsied and tissues saved in formalin for
histopathology to determine cause of death.

* Samples for histopathology can be submitted to The Iowa State
University Veterinary Diagnostic laboratory <http://www.vdpam.iastate.edu>
or The Animal Health Diagnostic Center (AHDC) at Cornell University
<http://www.diag.center.vetcornell.edu>.

* Samples of the recalled food should be held for possible analysis.
Opened food should be disposed of so there is no chance of further
consumption. Pet owners can contact the Food and Drug Administration
(FDA) Consumer Complaint Coordinator at:
<http://www.fda.gov/opacom/backgrounders/complain.html>.

* The FDA has provided the following case definition for field
investigation/cases: veterinary-documented renal failure, necropsy
results if animal died, food consumed within one week of death
(illness), and intact, unopened cans of the food. If veterinarians
suspect that a case meets this general case definition, FDA has
requested that you contact them at the following e-mail address:
<www.emergency.operations@fda.hhs.gov>.

* Please continue to advise that your clients consult
<http://www.menufoods.com/recall> for a list of the recalled food.
They should stop feeding the food immediately.

* Also consult <http://www.avma.org> for the most up-to-date information.

[Prepared by Sandy Willis DVM DACVIM ACVIM Communications Committee
Chair <http://www.ACVIM.org>]

mafiaprincess
March 26th, 2007, 12:00 AM
A few facts re all of the above:

1. Menu Foods does not make its different branded dog and cat foods in Canada. Canada is only where the fat cats , the investors, and corporate hq is. It solely exists to maximize profits for investors.

Menu foods in Mississauga is one of the contaminated recall plants.. It's not limited to an American issue..

coppperbelle
March 26th, 2007, 06:56 AM
A few facts re all of the above:

1. Menu Foods does not make its different branded dog and cat foods in Canada. Canada is only where the fat cats , the investors, and corporate hq is. It solely exists to maximize profits for investors.

2. Menu foods are actually mfg in the United States. In Kansas and in New Jersey. I have ridden past the NJ plant and the smell is so bad we had to break the speed limit to get away from it.

3. It is amazing this company is making deals to buy wheat product from China when China has a billion people who sure could use it to make flour to make noodles, gravies, "pancakes" etc. Also while the U.S. pays its farmers NOT to grow wheat, thanks to Menu, Americans are buying the stuff from China. It makes no sense until you figure out they are saving a few dollars per ton.

4. The FDA in the U.S. is supposed to regulate pet as well as human foods.

The USDA regulates feed fed to farm animals but not pets. The FDA allows
byproducts such as brain tissue and spinal cord tissue into pet foods that the USDA does not allow in farm animal feed! Cats can get and have gotten and died from prion diseases due to this. Difficult to diagnose, these cats and the contaminated food they are fed are a constant source of income for vets and pet food companies.

I stopped feeding my surviving dog any kind of pet food, dry or wet, a little over a year ago. My vet would recommend against this. I wonder what he's saying now.

My first rottie died from malnutrition because he vomited every pet food including vet recommended products. The vet said it was his liver. It was his liver alright, it was overwhelmed by toxins I was paying for a dishing out. My second rottie started vomiting a year ago and I stopped the pet foods, all of them, and guess what: he stopped vomiting and gained back the weight he was losing and is just fine thanks to human meatloaf, hamburgers, baked potato, and chicken cutlets.Dogs will eat anything including (for dry component) breakfast cereals meant for humans. I appreciate cat owners are more challenged.

Pet foods are just a convenience for pet owners who don't want to cook and chop up food for their animals and rather just dump it out of the can or bag. If your dog or cat is truly a member of your family you will cook for them or get take out!

My two cents. I don't trust any pet foods, wet, dry, gravies, special cuts, whatever anymore.

I am sorry you have had a problem with dog food. If you take the time to learn about ingredients and do some research you will find there are good foods for animals.
Your comment is insulting to those of us who do feed a commercially made food. My dogs are members of my family yet I have chosen to feed my animals this way. I will not explain why to you but suffice it to say I have my reasons for not feeding a raw or home cooked diet because I am not convinced it is the best thing for my dog or me. I am glad you have had success but please do not say that I or anyone else do not consider our animals to be part of our family because we don't feed our dogs what you deem to be the best way to feed a dog.

Prin
March 28th, 2007, 07:32 PM
I am glad you have had success but please do not say that I or anyone else do not consider our animals to be part of our family because we don't feed our dogs what you deem to be the best way to feed a dog.Well said. :)