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Raaaant about the recall...

Prin
March 20th, 2007, 05:54 PM
Ok, so to avoid hijacking the recall thread completely...

I just watched a report on a French station here about the recall, and they interviewed one of the head guys from one of the big pet food chains here, and NEVER did they mention Nutro! I was so appauled. I know this particular chain (not mentioning names, just in case) sells TONS of Nutro. To me Nutro would be the first on their list, if they had any loyalty toward their customers. Just sickening.

In the end, it's about profits, right? I mean, that really is why these foods have cheap ingredients like wheat gluten in them to begin with.

When will consumers wise up to the fact that none of these companies (even the good ones) are really in it for the animals?

They don't care! They're only liable for the cost of the bag, can or pouch it seems.

That's not news, but the fact that the major stores feel the same way- that they should be more loyal to the companies than to the people whose pets are dying, is just sad and maddening. Whether it be by not mentioning their most profitable brand on tv, or by not removing the recalled foods from the shelves as soon as news got out, or by simply putting PR above the health and welfare of our pets, it all just takes a little more faith in humans away... :sad:

And yes, techno, it does make me reconsider raw or homecooked for a minute... Sure, my brands aren't involved and don't have wheat either, but eventually it'll happen to them all, right? I mean, it's all about cost and it costs money to inspect every load of ingredients.

end rant (for now) /

rainbow
March 20th, 2007, 06:20 PM
I agree with you 100% Prin....the pet food industry is definitely all about the profits. The really don't care about the pets at all. :sad:

Smiley14
March 20th, 2007, 07:00 PM
I was at a local store today and they still hadn't pulled some of the affected wet brands from the shelves! I was appalled! I should have asked them, but I was in a big hurry as I was late for work. Maybe I'll stop by again tomorrow. I can't believe this recall is voluntary! So sad and frustrating!

technodoll
March 20th, 2007, 07:07 PM
this whole thing just breaks my heart :sad: an akita forum member's shipperke died two days ago because of this tainted food, only 7 years old... how many pets are dying but the media won't publicise the real numbers, because it's not possible to conduct such a census? :confused: :mad:

tainted food happens in the human food chain too (remember the e-coli tainted spinach a few months back?), spoiled meats and fish are not that uncommon (of course it depends where you shop, etc) - but my god! imagine what would happen to a company's products if such a situation happened and people/ kids died! :eek:

still... i do believe that when you make your own pet's food there is a level of quality control that is impossible to achieve when a petfood company takes over. at least you can see, smell and feel the meat, veggies, etc... sigh. What a disaster... we can only hope it's a wake-up call and it will change some industry guidelines and awaken people on the dangers of feeding cheap food. :pray:

erykah1310
March 20th, 2007, 07:11 PM
What really gets me about this recall, is, from what I gather... which may be off.
It happened because they switched suppliers for an ingredient right? This ingredient was "tainted" or what ever... but they dont mention what ingredient it is. Its probably a mediocre ingredient judging by the foods affected, however. I think the public should be aware.
Obviously since none of the higer end foods were affected ( or infected) the "ingredient" is something that is not neccessary in pet food anyways.
But... I guess they cant make that known, or they would loose alot of buisness.
Too gimicky and secretive ( the petfood industry) for my liking, Thanks TD for the intro to raw:thumbs up

Prin
March 20th, 2007, 07:13 PM
Erykah, all the holistic companies and the companies not involved are saying it's wheat gluten, but the companies who are involved aren't saying which ingredient it is. :confused: Don't know what's the point in hiding it.

technodoll
March 20th, 2007, 07:17 PM
the FDA is saying wheat gluten alone would not cause kidney failure and death, they are investigating into other food contaminants such as lead, cadmium, aflatoxins - right now they just don't know :yell:

TeriM
March 20th, 2007, 07:20 PM
Hubby saw the coverage here this morning and they said that menu foods is offering to pay vet bills? Anyone else hear this?

Hubby also works for one of the grocery stores affected and yesterday his job was to go around and check all the lot #'s of the products. They did not have any of the contaminated stuff. I asked him if the store posted any info for the consumers and of course they didn't :frustrated: .

Prin
March 20th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Well, yeah, it's not just wheat, but whatever was in the wheat that missed the inspection, whether it was a toxic fungus, chemical, whatever.

Prin
March 20th, 2007, 07:22 PM
TeriM, I doubt it. Because they can't pinpoint why the animals are getting kidney failure, they wouldn't be able to prove it was from the food, and nobody would get reimbursed. :shrug: Dogs and cats get kidney failure even when their food isn't loaded with something toxic, right? :rolleyes: :sad:

meb999
March 20th, 2007, 07:28 PM
Who cares though....they're just dogs, right? http://bestsmileys.com/evil/3.gif

http://bestsmileys.com/nono/4.gif

TeriM
March 20th, 2007, 07:35 PM
Gillian Alexander, 18, from Waterdown, Ont. has even started an online petition asking for reimbursement after her family cat, Nigel, died of kidney failure.

"Vet bills are too expensive. For my cat to simply undergo tests it would cost approximately $1575," wrote Alexander. "This cost is not including treatments, which are limited."

Alexander said she called Menu Foods and asked if she would be reimbursed but the representative said they "didn't know."
http://www.petitiononline.com/menupay/petition.html

I doubt it will do any good but here is an online petition.
http://www.petitiononline.com/menupay/petition.html

Prin
March 20th, 2007, 07:38 PM
Yeah, that'll never happen. :o

rainbow
March 20th, 2007, 07:44 PM
Well, yeah, it's not just wheat, but whatever was in the wheat that missed the inspection, whether it was a toxic fungus, chemical, whatever.

That's right. Quaity control somewhere along the line. :frustrated:

rainbow
March 20th, 2007, 07:45 PM
I asked him if the store posted any info for the consumers and of course they didn't :frustrated: .

Can he get them to post one tomorrow? :fingerscr

rainbow
March 20th, 2007, 07:47 PM
I doubt it will do any good but here is an online petition.
http://www.petitiononline.com/menupay/petition.html


I don't think it will do any good either. It's better to email or write to the individual companies and the FDA, etc.

Stacer
March 20th, 2007, 09:07 PM
It'sa interesting to note which companies are voluntarily taking the affected food off their shelves. yesterday the man bought the cats some wet food at a large chain rhymes with "pooper get" on his way home from work. He didn't know which cans to get (that's my department) so he got 3 different brands, one of them being Nutro Natural Choice. I was pretty surprised that it would still be on the shelf. But today my faith was restored a bit when I went into another chain, rhymes with "get value", and all of the Nutro was gone and there was a sign saying there had been a recall. The guy at the counter asked if I'd heard about the recall and then proceeded to ask me if I wanted the treat of the week (a catnip treat of some kind), I quickly checked the ingredients, there was sugar, I said "no thanks, there's sugar in it" then he said that it's amazing how many people don't know what they put into their pets, and that it's nice to see some informed people out there. Which made me feel good. And it was refreshing to see that they had pulled that food off the shelves so promptly, I wish they sold my brand of dry food cause I would shop there more often.

clm
March 20th, 2007, 09:17 PM
Menu foods were telling people to keep their vet bills, just in case there is a fund set up at a later date to reimburse pet owners. No guarantee that there will be a reimbursement. I'll be surprised if this doesn't force them into bankrupcy. Hopefully this will wake up other pet food manufacturers and get them checking their quality control practices.

Cindy

x.l.r.8
March 20th, 2007, 09:49 PM
In my local wallymart, one cashier will not sell any of the tinned foods, the service desk had a list of 5 foods, while she had the whole list with the numbers :evil: .
She did not have time to check the numbers so just told everyone with canned food, but a few people ignored her and still brought the food. She told them to keep the reciept and bring it back when they open their eyes. Luckily we had a long talk with the manager after we got Riley and converted him to Canadie. He has no problems with my wife trying to inform the customers as they pass through the till.
He kept the list and is personally going through the shelves himself to make sure it's removed (that probably means he will personally get the night crew to do the checking, which also means they will leave it on the shelf and blame someone else :mad: )
4 people at work saw the light and had already swapped brands, one refused to swap from her beloved iams is hopefully reading the info I left in the break room. My neighbour who thought i was mad going to the SARF diet now thinks it was a great move and the other neighbour, who I swapped her food from Actrium to Merricks while we were dog sitting (Gus won't touch anything else now ;) ) has jsut delivered the first batch of maple syrup and a big bottle of baileys :thumbs up (they mix together quite well :crazy: )
I have a funny feeling that if they opened the floodgates for free vet services for affected animals, people will abuse it and there would be no proof if your animal was on that particular food, unless you go out quickly and buy a known bad tin and present it as your proof. As humans we are more than able to conduct ourselves is such a way :sad: so I don't believe that they will offer vet services other than compensatory ones after the fact :sad:
I guess what ever it was either doesn't survive the kibble processing, or even worse, as kibble has a longer shelf life, has not hit the stores yet :eek:
I also think that once it has all cleared up people will think that there will be safeguards put in place to stop it happening again, 60 million cans in 3 months 240 million cans a year from one plant, that is a LOT of money for a load of waste products, I don't think they will be to financially burdened
by this, shame because that would be the only was they would do anything.

"In the United States, the Food and Drug Administration is the lead agency monitoring the cases.
In Canada, the comparable body, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, does not regulate the pet food industry.
It is self-regulated.
The food agency regulates livestock feed, but not pet food. "We' don't have the authority to do that," spokesperson Tammy Jarbeau said today. "You'd have to change the law."
So they go back to monitoring themselves.

CyberKitten
March 20th, 2007, 10:28 PM
This issue makes me soooooo angry!! I have never used any of these brands, thinking of them junk food - esp avoiding anything generic but I do realize some ppl do use them and some ppl who mean well and are barely getting by themselves (and I think of some seniors who may be in dire straits and are used to the old ways - tho my dad is a senior and he'll drive 100 km to save 5 cents, lol) and think of the animals who may have been eating this stuff.

And you are right Prin, it's all bout profit- why else stuff food with all the junk they include that cats and dogs do NOT need, like fiber and non protein items! Arrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

My vet was on a local news channel tonite telling ppl what symptoms to look for (and they are getting calls galore!) and some vets are just going to have to care for some of these cats but for kidney disease, it is hard to say what causes it. What a nightmare!!

I do thin kthe one bright light - if there is one - is that I wonder if 20 yrs ago, this would have been the news story it is now and I think actually it would not have been. We care more about our animals now! We just do!

brandynva
March 20th, 2007, 10:40 PM
I would definetly be interested to know the actual numbers of not only deaths, but illnesses associated with this botch up. The figure we are getting in the states is 10 deaths, but that doesn't account for Canada or anywhere else in the world this crap is being pawned. It breaks my heart too. Especially when I talk to co-workers and they think they are doing their dogs a service by feeding them crap and being proud of it. Admittedly I used to feed my dogs crap, but when my eyes were opened (thanks pets.ca) I changed my ways and my dogs are obviously healthier because of it. I just hope this uproar is enough to induct some industry wide changes, but I won't hold my hopes up for it... :sad:

rainbow
March 21st, 2007, 12:19 AM
I won't hold mine up, either. :sad:

Prin
March 21st, 2007, 01:04 AM
Sooo many extra hugs for the babies tonight... Soooo many. :sad:

meb999
March 21st, 2007, 06:44 AM
I wouldn't hold my breath for a reimbursement of vet bills...It's going to cost them millions, and I can see the 'pain and suffering' law suits in states a mile away. They'll probably declare bankrupcy and open back up under another name in a few months :eek: :sad:

coppperbelle
March 21st, 2007, 08:27 AM
In the Montreal Gazette this morning it says and I quote "No dry foods were affected, Menu Foods says." What the heck does this mean? Does it mean they don't make dry foods? Or does it mean that they make dry foods and they were not affected by whatever caused the wet food to be poison. Or does it mean no dogs have been reported to get ill yet? In the same article there is a blip from a man whose 4 year old lab began vomiting and pooping blood and almost died. He was eating one of the recalled foods dry formulas. No cause for the dogs illness was ever found despite $850.00 in treatments and blood tests but he is no longer feeding this dry food. He says and again I quote, "I'm not a doctor, but when a dog goes from normal one day to coughing up blood, I'm not feeling very safe."

I would love to know more about this company but can't find anything. Their web site is all about the recall and nothing more.:confused:
Very odd in my opinion.

kathryn
March 21st, 2007, 10:15 AM
It's annoying. No matter what you do people are going to be greedy in the world. People are never going to respect animals or each other. The world is always going to be rotten. I am thankful that the food I feed my cats was not tainted. I feed my cats the Whiskas packets as my cats seem to enjoy eating the sliced or chunky stuff in gravy more then that smashed up crap in a can.

Laws need to be put in place to protect animals better. But I don't think thats ever going to happen. Moneys apparently more important then a life.

Scott_B
March 21st, 2007, 10:36 AM
We as pet owners need to wisen up about pet foods, and whats in them. Stop taking the companies marking ploys as truth, and read up on whats in pet food. Feed healthier diets. I mean this could really happen to any pet food company. It just happens that this one makes 90% of the food sold.

If any good comes out of this, its that pet owners switch to better and healthier choices of food. None of these grocery store generic brands.

Whiskas packets as my cats seem to enjoy eating the sliced or chunky stuff in gravy more then that smashed up crap in a can.

sigh..i suppose you're correct in calling it "stuff" as its not meat. And honestly, its no better then anything off that list. But believe me, I don't fault you for feeding it. It looks like it would be yummy, but it looks that way, because the pet food company makes it looks that way for us owners. We see "meaty chunks in Gravy" and think, yum, my kitty would love that. Its all in the marketing. :sad:

technodoll
March 21st, 2007, 11:01 AM
scott you are saying the exact same thing i've been trying to say for two posts now. but seems Pike won't let me? :confused: i don't see the problem... never been censored for talking about this stuff before. :confused:

marko
March 21st, 2007, 11:17 AM
scott you are saying the exact same thing i've been trying to say for two posts now. but seems Pike won't let me? i don't see the problem... never been censored for talking about this stuff before

when you say x company makes a crap food and doesn't give a dang about animals it poisons every year.......that is slander for our board and is not even close to the general way Scott B is describing the same situation.

Please be careful about slander.

Please do not reply to this comment...just continue on with the thread..

thx

marko

technodoll
March 21st, 2007, 11:24 AM
i will reply to this comment, just to say thank you for the explanation :) i guess i need to learn to moderate my sentiments about certain issues, LOL! moving along... :rolleyes:

mummummum
March 21st, 2007, 01:44 PM
And it is the complete lack of information about the source of the toxin which is making me a very nervous kibble feeder. As most of you know some of us are trying to track down where Timberwolf is made (they claim it's "proprietary information") ~ what if they use the same plant as Menu ???? Or buy Toxin X from the same place for their food ? :yell: It's maddening.

Spirit
March 21st, 2007, 01:57 PM
As most of you know some of us are trying to track down where Timberwolf is made (they claim it's "proprietary information") ~ what if they use the same plant as Menu ???? Or buy Toxin X from the same place for their food ? :yell: It's maddening.

It is "proprietory information", and it's not made at Menu Foods.

Wet foods are made in a seperate plants than dry.

Timberwolf is made in the states, at a different plant than the one affected.

mummummum
March 21st, 2007, 02:03 PM
Well, no one knows where Timberwolf is made or where they source their ingredients because they refuse to say. While wet and dry might be made in different places, the ingredients may well be sourced from the same supplier.

Spirit
March 21st, 2007, 02:13 PM
But "The ingredients" don't matter because it's not the specific ingredient that caused the problem. It's the amount.

Most foods are made with the same ingredients and when canned foods are produced. Those ingredients are measured differently, and by computer. So while one food (produced at the same plant as another) is made with let's say .04% of vitamin A, another food might be made with 1.2% of the same vitamin. If the machines are programmed incorrectly, and the percentages are not correct, it will affect all the foods manufactured in that specific plant.

In this case, the suspected cause is an increase in wheat glutten (supposedly). Most foods won't publicly announce which plants their foods are made in to the general public, and only people who work in the industry (like myself) are subject to that kind of information.

If I know which plant it is that's been affected (and I do), and that information has been kept private from the general public, I would lose my job for telling you.

If you're nervous about feeding a food that won't openly tell you where it's made, then don't feed it.

meb999
March 21st, 2007, 03:08 PM
Maybe, just maybe...since this Is a anonymous forum...you could tell us?! :D
ok, I'm just kiddin' (unless you're going to...)...no pressure

mummummum
March 21st, 2007, 03:15 PM
According the FDA website it's a plant located in Emporia, Kansas.

Prin
March 21st, 2007, 03:36 PM
IMO, if peanut allergy sufferers can't have anything made in a factory where peanuts are used, then why is it ok for dogs to eat a food processed in the same factory as a different, but equally deadly (IMO) toxin?

IMO, it's our decision what we feed our dogs and to make that decision we need access to the information.

mummummum
March 21st, 2007, 03:38 PM
If you're nervous about feeding a food that won't openly tell you where it's made, then don't feed it.

That's a pretty glib answer.

If only it were that easy. But, that's beside the point. How can I be a responsible consumer if I don't know where and by whom something is made ? I like to buy fair trade and from employers who treat their staff reasonably and fairly. I don't see the need for the secrecy. Of what greater value is the information to people who sell pet food than to the people who use it?

technodoll
March 21st, 2007, 03:47 PM
Of what greater value is the information to people who sell pet food than to the people who use it?

well it probably sounds like "ka-chiinnng"... if consumers REALLY knew what went into most petfoods, how it's made, what the raw ingredients look like, how the facilities are maintained and food trials run... you'd lose alot of customers IMO :eek:

mummummum
March 21st, 2007, 04:06 PM
All the more reason TD to have a regulatory body (like the FDA) in Canada responsible for pet food which makes site of manufacture mandatory public information.

Prin
March 21st, 2007, 04:13 PM
Ooo can I have that job?! :pray:

mummummum
March 21st, 2007, 04:34 PM
Ooo can I have that job?! :pray:

It goes without saying Prin that I would hire you in a nanosecond.:D

Prin
March 21st, 2007, 04:39 PM
So how do we get you in charge then? ;)

Spirit
March 21st, 2007, 05:01 PM
That's a pretty glib answer.

If only it were that easy. But, that's beside the point. How can I be a responsible consumer if I don't know where and by whom something is made ?

Sorry. I was speaking in general (maybe it was a bad example). If you're uncomfortable feeding any food for any reason, and the answers you seek are not being answered, then it only seems like the most logical choice to not feed that food.

As for Prin, I've raised my eyebrow at her a couple times, but she still has more knowledge to get a job damn well anywhere she wants. She knows more about nutrition than most and should have people working for her (not the other way around). That said, none of here are experts. Pet health is what I do for a living, and I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything and I too ask questions sometimes. We have to remember that this is the internet, and there is a LOT of bad information floating around. Especially on forums such as this where speculation and personal opinion take presidence over stone hard facts. Especially in times like this where there's mass panic about food recalls and the welfare of our animals. I've found a lot of bad information (or misinformation) online regarding the recalls, so unless we have a good souce, everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Personally, I'm not one to take chances. If a company (any company) is being secretive, I tend to avoid it. Period.

Oh, and mummummum? :thumbs up

mummummum
March 21st, 2007, 05:06 PM
Just heard on CBC, Amanda White of Toronto is the main plaintiff in a class action against Menu Foods (who are continuing to decline comment). :thumbs up

Edited to add: Joel Rochon (sp?) is the lawyer, it's a 16 million dollar suit.

Prin
March 21st, 2007, 05:19 PM
And then we're back to the same ol' point of starting our own dog food company.:D All we need is for ONE of us to win the 20 million. :frustrated: :D

rainbow
March 21st, 2007, 07:05 PM
All the more reason TD to have a regulatory body (like the FDA) in Canada responsible for pet food which makes site of manufacture mandatory public information.


That sure would be nice. That's one of the things I'm hoping will happen out of all this. :fingerscr

Hunter's_owner
March 22nd, 2007, 07:16 PM
And then we're back to the same ol' point of starting our own dog food company.:D All we need is for ONE of us to win the 20 million. :frustrated: :D

:fingerscr for that to happen:pray:

bekka_1
March 23rd, 2007, 04:49 PM
hey everyone i just heard on the local news that it wasnt a contaminted igredent but that it was rat poison, but the type of rat poison that was used is from another country because it isnt even FDA approved in the US.