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Well It Didn't Work

Lukka'sma
March 18th, 2007, 08:09 AM
Here I go again with trying a different food for Lukka. This will be food number four!!!! I thought the Innova would work for her but stools are still soft to cowpie soft and I am at a loss. What I think I will do is go to a sweet potato and fish formula, and see if she has an allergy to meat or whatever. Yesterday I bought DVP sweet potato and fish allergy formula. Mixed a small bit in her food. SHE WOULDN'T EVEN TOUCH HER FOOD, AND STILL HAS NOT EATEN SINCE THE LAST INNOVA ONLY SERVING. Not that she is ill but she seems to hate the fish. I am wondering what my choices are now to find a food that eliminated all the common factors of the brands she has been on to date. Is it possible to get a bison or pork flavored food that will help me to identify if she was allergic to the others.
This is the list of what she has been on so far.
Eukanuba- weaned on this and switched at 12-14 weeks when we got her home
Eagle Pack Puppy
Eagle Pack Holistic Large and Giant Breed
Innova

I also thought I might try her on slippery elm.
HELP

Tommysmom
March 18th, 2007, 08:40 AM
Have you tried the venison and brown rice formula? (sorry if venison was already in the ones you tried). We had to get an allergy formula for Tommy and he wouldn't touch the vegetarian that the vet tried to put him on, and he wouldn't touch the sweet potato and fish either. He does like the venison one. We've always had a soft poop issue too, no matter what protein he was on, but lately I've been giving him some prozyme and a tiny bit of yogurt and his poops are great.

Lukka'sma
March 18th, 2007, 09:16 AM
I haven't tried the venison, maybe that would be a good choice.
Or maybe I should just start a bland diet of a boiled protein (not too sure which meat to try) and rice for a few weeks and see if it helps.
My only reason for not giving her the digestive enzyme or pumkin or anything else as yet is because I don't want to mask anything underlying. (I hope I am explaining this properly.) I want the food to be digested and accepted by the Lukka-gut without having to help in the aide of digestion. Maybe I am wrong and would like to be corrected if that is the case because I want Lukka better as soon as possible. For those of you that are so knowledgable in this area should I put her on something to help the digestion immediately.
This is soooo frustrating.
Lukka continues to flurish however, she grows at a steady rate and gains weight, has a great coat but she has started to scratch a bit and bite at the pads of her front paws and the chew at her tail..... along with the soft poop issue.
Another thing that dog's me about this is when Lukka has a poo in public and it is so soft that picking it up is out of the question. I can try but usually it ends up being a smeared mess about a foot wider than the original site. The disapproving looks from park patrons are like daggers and they shake their heads as if I am totaly out of control and should be dealt with. Guess I can't blame them I might think the same thing if I saw a doggie with loose stool like Lukka's.

Tommysmom
March 18th, 2007, 09:34 AM
I hear you on the soft-poop-in-public issue! Tommy doesn't like the snow so he tends to go on the sidewalk when we're walking, and I've had more than my share of nasty looks :sad: . I just want to run up to everybody and say look, we don't KNOW why it happens, I'm trying, I'm trying!!!! LOL. It's awful.

I think I've finally just given up for now since we've investigated everything and the enzymes work... Tommy's on his 6th food (not including the ones he wouldn't try... our local shelter has been well-stocked with the food we donate!). If you find something that works though, I might just copy you!

LL1
March 18th, 2007, 09:44 AM
What age and breed?

Lukka'sma
March 18th, 2007, 09:52 AM
Caucasian Ovcharka
Born 20 January 2006

LL1
March 18th, 2007, 10:01 AM
Had to google that one.I would get your vet to do a TLI test to check for pancreatic insufficiency.

Lukka'sma
March 18th, 2007, 10:25 AM
If you find something that works though, I might just copy you!


If I find something that works (and from what I have read it could take about three months on one food to know for sure) I will let you know first thing.

RolandsMom
March 18th, 2007, 10:58 AM
sorry to hear about your issues Lukkasma, i know how frustrating it is to not be able to find the right food. im still struggling with Roland!
good luck! hope its sorted soon.:fingerscr

technodoll
March 18th, 2007, 11:05 AM
dakotah also used to have huge cowpie poops on kibble, ANY and all kibble... some dogs just don't do well on it :shrug: Any reason you haven't looked into raw feeding? would be worth a shot... :goodvibes:

Lukka'sma
March 18th, 2007, 12:58 PM
dakotah also used to have huge cowpie poops on kibble, ANY and all kibble... some dogs just don't do well on it :shrug: Any reason you haven't looked into raw feeding? would be worth a shot... :goodvibes:

OK now this is going to sound really stupid but I think my main reason is I am affraid of her choking on bones. I know what you are thinking, dogs have eaten bones all their lives and I agree but it makes me nervous. She chews on a piece of wood, it immediately gets stuck in her throat and she coughs and sputters for hours after, I picture the same thing happening with the bones. Other than that I can't honestly come up with a reason not to go raw. I would still have to identify the allergen. Then the next hurdle would be to convince hubby of a raw diet, that would take quite a bit of brainwashing and the final outcome would resemble the Nine Important Words Women Use thread that rainbow posted:D
I haven't ruled it out by any means, and several times have looked at the possiblity of starting it.

PetFriendly
March 18th, 2007, 01:18 PM
I'm thinking it might not be the source of protein so much as 'the other stuff' that's in the food. If you went to a bland diet of rice and chicken, you'd at least be able to figure out if chicken is your issue. If it is chicken, you can switch in fish, etc until you find something that works.

The DVP foods must taste different, my guy loves the kibble as treats, but he won't eat a whole bowl of it any more. :shrug:

Lukka'sma
March 18th, 2007, 01:30 PM
So if I went to a boiled chicken and rice or boiled hamburger and rice she would have to stay on it for a few weeks to see if the itching stops ---right?
Would a simple food like that be enough to sustain her for weeks on end? What would I have to feed her in the way of supplement's to keep her healthy?

rainbow
March 18th, 2007, 02:20 PM
No, it would not be enough to sustain her. You would have to google "home cooking for dogs" to find proper recipes.

It could just be that her digestive system has not fully matured yet. My husky was like that. It wasn't until he was 16 months old that his poops improved. Even now if he gets a little too much extras added his poop will get a little soft and he turned two in January. :shrug: I use a little plain organic yogurt daily or raw canned pumpkin if I have to. ;)

Prin
March 18th, 2007, 02:23 PM
Honestly, for me, homecooking for a few weeks means doing all the research and making sure it's balanced and everything. Sure, it can be done, but there are still some kibbles to try! :D :o You could always get vitamins to balance it out too. (Like Biovites (http://www.biologicnr.com/biologicvetnx/products/biovites.htm), but you'd have a problem with possible allergies again :frustrated: :rolleyes: ).

Do you have Timberwolf Organics anywhere near you? The wilderness elk might be a good one to try (but it's fishy, so get samples). Or Dakota bison too...

Jemma and Boo weren't so hot for the DVP fish either. They ate it (they eat any kibble they get) but they didn't enjoy it.:D

I'm just going to go compare the foods you listed to see what's common...

Prin
March 18th, 2007, 02:42 PM
Innova regular right?

Innova regular dog:
Turkey Chicken Chicken Meal Ground Barley Ground Brown Rice Potatoes Natural Flavors Ground White Rice Chicken Fat Herring Apples Carrots Cottage Cheese Sunflower Oil Alfalfa Sprouts Egg Garlic...

Eagle Pack large breed puppy (not holistic, right?)
Lamb Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground White Rice, Ground Yellow Corn, Chicken Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Natural Mixed Tocopherols), Oatmeal, Anchovy & Sardine Meals, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Menhaden Fish Oil, Dried Egg Product, Wheat Germ Meal, Salt...


Eagle Pack 'holistic' large and giant adult:
Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground White Rice, Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Natural Mixed Tocopherols), Dried Beet Pulp, Pork Meal, Anchovy & Sardine Meals, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Tomato Pomace, Carrots, Sun-Cured Alfalfa, Peas, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Quinoa (Organic), Apples, Blueberries


Ok, so the colors indicate overlap...
Purple is chicken meal, in all three.
Orange is Ground Brown rice and ground white rice, in all three, but rarely causes allergies (but you never know)
And green is gluten... (a very usual suspect, even if it's not in all three...)
Blue is oatmeal, in two of 3...

My verdict? She's fully grown right? If so, I'd try Evo RM, or Barking at the Moon. :shrug: But only if she's fully grown. If she's not, then I'd try the Timberwolf foods, but otherwise, grains just seem to be somehow a culprit here, and I'd think it's the oatmeal and gluten over the rice (but you never know).

Oh, and I'd suspect the chicken as being the reason for the soft stools, or just too much rice/grain. The higher protein ones would help with that too.:shrug:

wdawson
March 18th, 2007, 03:06 PM
what about TO wilderness elk and salmon?

angeldogs
March 18th, 2007, 03:58 PM
I was worried about the bone with Jag when we first started raw.
I just took the plunge and throw it down.and the first few weeks i watched him like a hawk.and he did good chewing them up.

Winston
March 18th, 2007, 04:09 PM
As I have posted in the past about itchies,skin,dryness,cow pattie poops and the whole nine yards I am now trying Orijen for Dogs and Winston is eating it without any problem. It is only the second day and I still am giving him some of the DVP Duck & Potato until it is finished..I think this is also the 4th food change for me! And for some reason If I bring anything home that is fish! he will not eat it...Although I noticed the Orijen has a fish but not the main ingrediant! I figured it should be alright as it is more meat. no grains, no gluten and no by-products?? What do people think of this one?

Here are the ingrediants"

Fresh chicken meat, chicken meal (low ash), turkey meal, steamed russet potato, fresh-caught Northern Whitefish, chicken fat, fresh whole eggs, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils, tapioca, chicken broth, sunflower oil, flaxseed, Atlantic kelp, steamed carrots, spinach, peas and tomatoes, sun-cured alfalfa, apple fiber, psyllium seed, rosemary extract, yeast extract (MOS), glucosamine HCl, cranberries, black currants, chondroitin sulfate.

TONIC HERBS AND BOTANICALS

Chicory, burdock and marshmallow root (FOS), rosehips, stinging nettle, marigold flowers, L-carnitine, fennel seed, chamomile flowers, milk thistle, chickweed, summer savory.

ORGANIC MINERALS

Iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate.

PROBIOTIC MICROORGANISMS

Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Bifidobacterium (B. bifidus), Saccharomyces (S. boulardii).

PREMIUM VITAMINS

Mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E), choline chloride, vitamin A, vitamin D3, niacin, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12, folic acid, biotin, pyridoxine (source of vitamin B6).


ORIJEN ADULT is formulated with a biologically correct ingredient ratio (70/30/0) of 70% meat, 30% fruit and vegetables (and 0% grain) - all low temperature cooked at 90c to retain their natural nutrients.

rainbow
March 18th, 2007, 04:37 PM
Orijen is an excellent food. :)

PetFriendly
March 18th, 2007, 05:26 PM
Having followed Prin's indirect food advice in the past, and having kept up on all the posts she does about food (because I'm interested in dog foods, not Prin ;) ) . I'd say she's probably on to something with the gluten issue.

Another thought is maybe its too-much-of-a-good-thing soft poop? Have you tried scalling back her portions? Or is hse eating so little you can't? I know my guy only eats half the portion size recommended for his weight, and he's a rather active little guy.

Prin
March 18th, 2007, 05:45 PM
I'd say she's probably on to something with the gluten issue.Yeah, I can't take credit for that. That was OntarioGreys' suggestion first.:o

Lukka'sma
March 19th, 2007, 12:11 AM
That is a great comparison you did Prin. Thanks so much. I don't have Timberwolf in London, but I can buy it online and have it shipped to me.
I know I have seen the Orijen in one of the pet food stores I was recently in.
I want to thank everyone for all the wonderful advice. I hope to have good results from this food change and I will let everyone know how it goes.

Prin
March 19th, 2007, 12:14 AM
Don't ship too much TO though. I've heard sometimes it comes a little mishandled..:o

Good luck!

Oh and if you try orijen and it doesn't work, then you've pretty much ruled that chicken is a baddie for Lukka.

Spirit
March 19th, 2007, 12:42 AM
Gluten can definitely be a problem for some dogs.

But since you've had so many problems in the first place though (with all the switching), I strongly suggest that you switch him back to a food he did ok on (even if it's crap) and give him some time for his GI tract to sort itself out before trying yet a new food. It's always easier to switch from something that doesn't give him the runs.

I dont know the details though, so I could be completely talking out my butt here. lol :shrug:

gypsy_girl
March 19th, 2007, 12:48 AM
Here's my thoughts....

http://www.monicasegal.com/health/gastroallergies.php

I am sure somewhere is her course of study there is a blood level to be checked (might be pancreatic insufficiency) I'll see if I can find it. I think you have been on digestive enzymes it that right? Often dogs with pancreatic insufficiency do well on certain types of digestive enzymes. Was there any improvement on that aspect, if so?

angeldogs
March 19th, 2007, 02:53 AM
Your local global ryans pet foods don't carry T.O. the one here in kitchener carries it,

Lukka'sma
March 19th, 2007, 06:20 AM
Your local global ryans pet foods don't carry T.O. the one here in kitchener carries it,

Looking on the Timberwolf web site I don't even see Kitchener listed in the Where To Buy list. As far as I know we don't have Global in London, at least I have never heard of it. I'll check the phone book though. Listen you wouldn't want to run a bag of it over to me would ya:laughing:

Lukka'sma
March 19th, 2007, 12:26 PM
Well this morning I went and bought the Orijen. I am going to try it first because it is available in London and if I don't get results in a couple of months or so I will be ordering the Timberwolf Organics online. Thanks again Prin and all who have helped me in this issue.

Prin
March 19th, 2007, 03:58 PM
Good luck! :) If it doesn't work and you can get Evo RM, you might want to try that before TO... TO is slowly coming into Quebec and Ontario, so by the time you get to that point (which I hope you don't ;)), it might be more readily available.

Lukka'sma
March 19th, 2007, 05:06 PM
Oh, OK Prin. The Evo RM would be the next thing that I try if the Orijen is a bust. Thanks. Once I do get a food that agrees with her I will be asking you to give me the name of a couple of kinds of cookies that she will be able to have. Beware!

Prin
March 19th, 2007, 05:12 PM
lol Here are a couple that might be ok:

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/SPFishtreats.html
http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=treat-detail&pxsl=%2F%2Fproduct%5B@id%3D%2737%27%5D <-- the ones Jemma and Boo get right now...

or just plain beef liver treats...:shrug:

angeldogs
March 20th, 2007, 06:05 AM
You have to global ryan pet foods in london.it was on there website.i know ours has it.
Hamilton and Rectory Rd. and the second one is on wellington Rd north of Commissioners road east.
Are the 2 in london.

Lukka'sma
March 20th, 2007, 11:11 AM
You have to global ryan pet foods in london.it was on there website.i know ours has it.
Hamilton and Rectory Rd. and the second one is on wellington Rd north of Commissioners road east.
Are the 2 in london.

Yep, I tried the Hamilton/Rectory but that store closed.
So I called the Well/Comm store but she said Timberwolf Organics is not a brand name carried by them and they are just looking at maybe stocking the Orijen sometime in the future. Oh well....

angeldogs
March 20th, 2007, 01:47 PM
Ok.just got back from the one here.they have been only carrying it for a couple of months.I tried.sorry it didn't help.good luck