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Smokers rights.. an oxymoron today?

March 12th, 2007, 05:12 PM
We all know how wrong it is to inflict cigarette smoke on others, how offensive and dangerous this is to others.:sick:

Smokers today know full well all risks.. and must always respect the rights of nonsmokers.
I go to great lengths to observe this, rules or no rules... out of consideration and courtesy.

I dont mind stepping outside to have a smoke, and completely agree with this.

New legislation in B.C now takes it up one level though. Smoking is already banned in all public places, but now special smoking rooms will be prohibited as well.

Smoking outside near any doorway also will be included on the list of "'cant do". This is the only one I have a problem with.
I just wonder how near is near?:confused:

At a restaurant or other public building, I dont stand right "in" the doorway, but off to the side. If its raining -which it does a lot here - I try to stay under cover.

Will I now have to put on my coat, grab my umbrella and walk half a block?:frustrated:

Outside, I can step away from people... and people can get away from me. There is fresh air available.
But apparently I cant be anywhere in the vicinity.

I wondered what the restrictions were in other areas.. and if you are in agreement with them?

Do people smoking outside infringe on your rights from your prospective?

Yes... quitting is the obvious answer.
And becoming more necessary all the time. Smoker = leper in today's society.:shrug:

March 12th, 2007, 05:22 PM
I do agree i try to be as courteous also when non smokers are around,they just passed a law here you cannot smoke within 20 feet of any doorway ,business,window..Pretty soon you wont be able to smoke in your car,yeah quitting is an option,but is is also my right to choose to smoke.I dont even want to get myself started w/ the smokin issue,but i would like to see some cases where there is proof that someone actaully has died ONLY from second hand smoke,by the way you should rent Thank you for smoking,great movie.

March 12th, 2007, 05:34 PM
i was a smoker until december!!! but i have always hated second hand smoke smell (even when i was a smoker, and now that i ahve quit even more so)
but even if your not concerned about the health issues of 2nd hand smoke. but non smokers shouldnt have to walk through your smoke and smell it on their clothes all day to non smokers its disgusting.....20 feet is put in order because people will always push the limits. a little excessive i agree but congragations of smokers in a door way or right beside a door way is not pleasent to people who need to walk through and the business your near also has the smell seep in. another thing although i shouldnt be able to tell you to not smoke in your house i live in an apartment building and a neighbour of mine smokes and my apartment will reek of cigarettes sometimes, how fair is that to me?
as for smoking in cars, it should be illegal when children are in the car, it is far more toxic even with the window open my parents did it as i was a child and it literally caused severe chest pain to me and i had asthma living in a smoking home

March 12th, 2007, 05:58 PM
I agree i would never stand by a door and smoke,i actually find it hard to enjoy my cigarette if non smokers are near,even if people come to our house that dont smoke i will go outside,as far as living in an apt,yeah that sucks for you,but that would be a sad world when you cant smoke in your own home or car,if i had kids no i wouldnt smoke in car if they were it ..Smokers still should have rights to,like in my car or home,or apt...I also think in bars you should be able to smoke,i would be pissed if i owned a bar and the government tells me i cant choose whether to have it a smokin or non smokin establishment.

March 12th, 2007, 06:08 PM
i think someone should be allowed to smoke in their own home, but i think if you wanna do that someone should be paying for proper filters and vents for my home even when i did smoke i never ever smoked inside i hate the smell and work hard to keep my place clean and if it smells bad thats the first thing i notice. its a hard debate because there are jerks on both sides people should know if you go to the patio of a bar there is going to be smokers (i still have a smoke when drinking with friends too) and not complain but there are some smokers that are asses too

March 12th, 2007, 06:14 PM
I have respiratory problems and I have to speak from the other side of the coin. I have a number of friends who smoke and they do smoke outside when they visit me - or in another room that I later air out. However, when I pass by anyone smoking near an entrance, I have to hold my breath and I find this frustrating and somewhat upsetting. I don't see why large companies cannot build places for peopple to smoke outside and make everyone happy.

Where I work, people are not allowed to smoke anywhere in the building or even near - not even on the sidewalk actually so I cannot complain about that. Our city is pretty progressive as well in terms of this although I know my smoker friends are unhappy with it - since no restaurants permit smoking due to a municipal bylaw.

I guess I also see it from the medical perspective. Before the policy iof the hospital and university was changed, people could smoke outside near the building and I would see pregnant women smoking!!! I used to wonder if I should tell them how unsafe that was but I usually opted not to since if they wanted to hurt their unborn child, that was up to them but it still bothered me to no end!! I just could not imagine why anyone would do that actually!!

Once, when I was waiting for a cab at a small hospital where I was working at a visiting clinic - we were visiting patients - some man just lit up his cigarette right there. There even was a sign indicating No Smoking. Barely able to breathe, I pointed this out to him. He was a big burly man and nasty about it and I went to get a security guard because I was afraid of him. I do think I have the right to breathe!!

I do not think people should be told what to do in their homes but when smoking affects the health of others - and second hand smoke does indeed affect others - I think that is another story!! So I applaud no smoking efforts and legislation though I do feel for smokers in the cold winter and it seems to me some resolution should be made for smokers. One hospital I know once had a room for smokers to go to inside and actually that made sense to me- since while there was lots of smoke in that particular room, at least they were all freely smoking. It was closed though because as a health institution promoting healthy living, it could ill afford the adverse PR of having a place for smokers.

Anyway - that's my perspective. I sometimes panic if I am walking up the street and see a group of smokers because I know I will have to hold my breath (I only have one lung) and I'll end up with a headache. My problems are worse than some though but there is an increasing amount iof asthma - probably due mopre to pollution than smoking but smoking does not help - though it is minor compared to pollution!

March 12th, 2007, 06:20 PM
Yeah that is a good idea,and i totally understand how non smokers would feel,when i am really sick i cant stand the smell myself,and i know lots of smokers that also dont smoke in there home,i am not one of them,but i do try to be as courteous as i can around non smokers.

March 12th, 2007, 06:23 PM
That would be a great idea,i do believe we should have somewhere we can go to smoke,it is like because we are smokers we dont matter,i wish they would just stop making the damn things..

March 12th, 2007, 06:25 PM
I didn't like smoking other peoples' cigarettes when I smoked either. Now that I don't smoke I almost don't care. I'm really lucky, I have a smoker who lives downstairs from me, but the walls are so paper thin that any time the smoke gets too excessive I can just give a shout down the stairs about how my house reeks.

This doesn't happen often though, only if he's drinking wiht a bunch of people, and honestly I have no problem with that. I'm a very understanding neighbor, I don't mind music late at night, or loud people as long as they don't ring my doorbell, I could care less. I also believe in the rights of people to be able to live in their homes anyway they choose. Especially because my kids probably sound like a bunch of elephants crashing through the jungle.

I'm not really sure about the bylaws in Toronto anymore, I remember at one point the legal smokerooms were not going to be legal anymore, those rooms were disgusting, I couldn't bear going in them they stank so bad ( back when I did smoke). No more smoking in bars or public places and I did hear something about smoking in doorways, but I can't recall what the specifics were.

My personal feelings are that I don't mind the bylaws, but I don't mind smokers either. I think the you could win a car for quitting idea was great, I don't know if you heard of that, they were giving a car away to smokers who could quit within a certain time and quit for good.

I was telling my friend not so long ago that the government should try paying people to quit, you know, put all of those cigarette taxes to good use.;)

March 12th, 2007, 06:26 PM
they definately should have more place for smokers only, and i think more work places should start paying for all or part of non smoking aids and assistance

March 12th, 2007, 07:00 PM
I'm a smoker too, I don't smoke near non smokers, we don't smoke at work and even if we could, I wouldn't, I go outside, I don't stand near the door but come on ! It's outside and it's windy. But the fact we can't smoke in bars is ridiculous. It's ok to screw up your liver but please don't smoke ! :frustrated: This whole thing makes me feel so bad that I don't smoke when people I don't know come to my house (people who come to adopt my fosters and so on) even if I always have scented candle and an air filter machine.

March 12th, 2007, 07:15 PM
Amen to that,i will never understand booze being legal and pot illegal,.......

March 13th, 2007, 01:20 AM
i will never understand booze being legal and pot illegal,.......I'm prescribed pain killers that cause my stomach to bleed and put me at risk of really serious side effects, I'm "allowed" to wash them down with alcohol but the police will bust my door down and put me in jail if I smoke pot. I don't think people should smoke marijuana or tobacco in public places but I think everyone should be given the choice to choose what they want to put in thier own body. Prohibition didn't work with alcohol, many people died in that war in just the same way they are dying now from black market drugs and people caught in the cross fire of drug busts.

I wonder if this is where tobacco is headed?

March 13th, 2007, 02:07 AM
I'm a non-smoker and I'm pretty badly allergic to smoke. It makes me sick. Like it's such a whack to my immune system that I get sort of strep for a week after a big accidental inhale. If I went to a bar before the smoking ban, I'd be sick for a week afterward- and I don't drink. ;)

I love that restaurants and bars and clubs have smoking bans now. I can go eat without getting sick and I can go dance without getting sick (and without getting my clothes burned accidentally). Woo! :highfive:

But for those who "damage their livers", that's their choice. But if you choose not to smoke, you will smoke anyway if the bar is full of smoke. When I went to bars, I didn't drink, but I sure as hell smoked (even though it makes me sick- did I mention that already? :D).

And for the original question, when you walk outside, what is the first thing you do? You take a deep breath the fresh air. It's just a natural reflex as you walk through the door. :shrug: And when I get a dense whiff of smoke? Not so fresh and not so great. And then I'm sick for a week. :sad:

But it's not all smokers' fault either... I mean, here in Poorland, when it gets really cold, everybody has their woodstove burning, and I get sick. Often this winter, I posted about how I thought I was getting sick, but then it wasn't getting worse but it never got better either- from the smoke. :shrug:

Ok, so I'm sensitive, but I'm also sensitive to the sun and I can protect myself from that to a reasonable extent, so why shouldn't I be able to protect myself to a reasonable extent from cigarette smoke?

If I eat chocolate, do I force feed it to the guy next to me? No. So why should it be any less disgusting for you to force feed smoke into me just because you choose to smoke?

March 13th, 2007, 05:17 AM
One of my best friends who is a smoker - and is forever one the verge of quitting and iit really is a tough addiction to overcome so I try to understand where smokers are coming from. I actually don't think it is entirely fair to equate junk food - which may well be bad for us but something one does not require medical intervention or suffer withdrawal symptoms for to stop doing it. Ironically, she once was the health critic as an MLA and we used to tease her mercilessly about that of course! I even have a friend who is a surgeon and smokes and to be frank, that I do not understand at all - other than the addiction part. How can someone who is a medical professional who well understands the damage to the body - and the 2nd hand smoke (He and his wife have 4 children and tho he smokes outside at home, they still are exposed to it certain times.). I feel similarly to people in the health care field who are overweight. And that is easier to fix - while some regard it as similar as an addiction, there are few medically definable withdrawal symptoms.

Now my politician friend has often made the point papillonmama noted. She argues that if we are going to legislate against smoking because of its adverse health effects, then we should also be doing the same thing re junk food. Here, we are doing it to some extent in the schools but I wonder how much impact even that will have when a student can walk out of school and see a fast food joint up the street. I am really really alarmed by the increase in the weight of young children - and that I hold the parents responsible for!!! If we think the health care system is facing a crisis with all the boomers getting hip replacement surgery et al, wait until these kids - if they live long enough to make it to the same level of fitness many boomers are in - grow up!! We are going to be facing a super epidemic of diabetes, heart disease and a plethora of illnesses directly related to eating these high fat low protein diets. (I was just writing about cat diets and it seems kids today should watch how cats eat - tho they should drink milk!!! - but more protein and less fat would be a wise decision!)

I am not sure I concur with comparing smoking to taking medication though - unless one is taking the meds unnecessarily or inappropriately. Many meds - even prescribed ones - have adverse effects - and if one has to take certain meds for one's health, that is no way the same thing as smoking for pleasure or whatever reason one smokes. I too ended up in heart failure actually due to long term ingestion of NSID's like ASA and ibuprofen - for chronic pain. I did not want to take anything stronger and they worked the best for me and the same amt if acetaminophen might have killed my liver or kidneys. (It's a long story but because I was always in severe pain, I did not notice that I was developing an ulcer in the same area as the back pain that has constantly plagued me - for want of a better word - and by the time I was ill with what I thought was the flu.(I had flulike symptoms and could not keep any food down and had just arrived from a 3rd world country from a term with Drs without Borders and we often are exposed to a variety of similar illnesses and even the vaccinations against disease we think of as eradicated here can cause those symptoms so I was making all the wrong assumptions or perhaps engaging in a little bit of wishful thinking, lol To make a long story short, all the vomiting led to my electrolytes being so screwed up that my K (potassium) level was "not compatible with life" and once I ended up in the ER and later the ICU with a neogastric (feeding) tube and simultaneously TPN ( Total parenteral nutrition - a port a cath type line in inserted in a large central vein that provided essential nutrients) even my own colleagues were diagnosing cancer of the stomach or duodenum when they (and I) saw the huge mass on the scans. So, I went into surgery - the removal of 3/4 of my stomach - thinking I had cancer and came out to spend a month ICU but happy knowing all I had was the mother of all ulcers. So, I am quite aware of the risks medications have but even with that, I had few choices. Thus, I can in no way relate to equating THAT (ie taking necessary meds with recreational smoking. There is just no comparison. I just also went thru a series of chemotherapy treatments for cancer I did have this time - no meds to blame there tho, "just" pollution and the many carcinogens among us - and while I needed that and it was actually not quite as bad as the digestive illness, neither would I compare it to smoking.

Smoking is something one can choose to do. I and others do not choose to take medications. I can choose what nutrients I place in my body and that is a fair comparison.

I too sighed with immense relief when finally, the law banned smoking in restaurants and pubs. (and airplanes and the train- I used to think how ridiculous it was to have :No Smoking" sections as if the smoke was merely going to remain in that one section. It MOVES!! ) Finally, I could go out and come home and like Prin, not be ill the next morning from breathing in smoke. Or travel and not be ill for a few days after the trip. I used to take the train on occasion between NB and NS just prior to the introduction of No Smoking at all and I used to walk by the Smokers' car and hold my breath and even the few minutes I would sit or stand in the next car, I would end up inevitably with a headache!

I doubt tobacco is headed to a black market though many smokers I know buy their cigarettes et al from areas where they can save money. I have often pondered why some enterprising entrepreneur does not open a "Smoking Speak Easy" in the same style of those clubs during prohibition in the US especially. (Prohibition against alcohol was a boom for the Maritimes as well as central Canada as fishermen sold alcohol to our American friends and family, lol but I don't see that as comparable to this with the exception of a secret club a la Speak Easy where someone could go and smoke among other smokers - I actually think one could probably obtain an exemption from the municipal or provincial govt to open such a club. Non smokers without allergies and willing to cope with 2nd hand smoke could decide whether to accompany their smoker friends.)

Even if I could smoke, I vowed against it the day I saw my first autopsy and the patient had been a smoker even though the cause of death had been accidental death. Her lung was a horrid mass of black gooey tissue that resembles the charred remains of some rubbery item that had just been through a fire. I will never forget that and I cannot imagine anyone who did see it ever smoking tobacco. Recently, I lost a cousin to lung cancer - and she smoked for much of her life. She was diagnosed one day this fall and about two weeks later, she was dead! And I was reminded that 85 to 90 percent of all lung cancers are due to tobacco smoking.(I have also lost two uncles to smoking - both to lung cancer). This picture looks good compared to the lung I viewed that day - and I have seen scores since then but that one really impacted me. One could literally scrape the black flakes off the tissue with even a dull scalpel!! I suppose it is like anything else the first time you see it - and those are first impressions that certainly remained with me!!

March 13th, 2007, 06:22 AM
Smoke has always bothered me. I grew up with two parents smoking in the house and remember when my daughter was born I wouldn't allow my mother to smoke in my car. She was really angry with me. Keep in mind this was 24 years ago. Gradually over the years she began to understand and even quit smoking herself for many years. My father also quit and was the worse reformed smoker you could meet. Unfortunately about 8 years ago my mother started smoking again and in the house. A year ago my father was diagnosed with lung cancer after not smoking for 20 years. He died in August. Whether the second hand smoke or the fact that he had smoked for so many years was responsible we will never know.
I am very sensitive to cigarette smoke and will become physically ill if exposed to it. I guess it is from all the years growing up at home with two parents smoking in the house. I am very happy that bars and restaurants no longer allow smoking. Nothing peeved me off more than waiting for a table in the non-smoking section when there was always space in the smoking area.
Many smokers who posted here said they didn't smoke in front of doors etc... but you must know you are the minority. There is nothing like coming out of a building and having to walk through a group of smokers all exhaling just as you pass. This really gets to me especially coming out of the hospital.
I understand that this is a powerful addiction and agree that you need to smoke but I don't want to inhale it. Perhaps companies or building owners need to build shelters outside for their employees to smoke. This is probably the only solution.

March 13th, 2007, 12:50 PM
I've often said that if they've made a new rule, it's usually because of something people have done. For example, the big kerfuffle in Toronto after they had everyone install smoking rooms, then came in and banned smoking outrigt. It turned out too many places had the rooms, but kept the doors open for heating, or because it was a pain for waiters/waitresses to open the door, etc. etc.

The problem is, a lot of people are inconsiderate. I have asthma, and when I went into my old office, I had to walk through a fog from the smokers huddled around the door. I usually wound up gasping for air for 10 minutes.

The whole reason for banning smoking in restaurants and bars was to protect the workers from second-hand smoke, not to protect the patrons. Personally, I'm not necessarilly in agreement with the ban, but I like it. In other words, I think what someone wants to do with thier private establishment is up to them. That being said, I do enjoy eating in smoke-free enviroments. But I have a choice. If I don't want to smell smoke, then I didn't have to go in. However, if I want to walk into my office, then I had to go through the smoker's fog.

Personally, I'd like to see smoking banned in public spaces where I don't have a choice, I have to go. If you want to smoke in your car or your home, you should be able to. But as someone once said, "If I lift my arm, my rights end where my hand stops and the other person's face begins" (or something more elequent before I *******ized it). Everyone has a right to do what they want, as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. I can choose to not go into a bar or restaurant, but I can't realistically choose to not walk down the street.

Rick C
March 13th, 2007, 01:11 PM
As Sam Donaldson of ABC News once famously said during a televised debate in the early 1990's, holding his finger up to his nose, "Your right to smoke ends right where my nose is. That's where my rights begin."

Rick C

March 13th, 2007, 02:20 PM
I agree about people smoking right by doors,i dont agree that if i own a bar or whatever that i should be told whether i can have it smokin or non smokin, non smokers also can choose whether or not to go somewhere where smokin is permitted..

March 13th, 2007, 02:56 PM
Since smoking is now banned in all indoor public places in the province, i find that walking down the street now has become just gross. i can't get a breath of fresh air anywhere, all i get is stinking cigarette smoke and i often gasp for breath trying to maneuver around the offending ciggie-holders :frustrated: they are everywhere in this city!! last week i worked in california where the same law is in place. I was stuck inside a stinky convention center all day, and when i wanted some fresh air i had to hold my breath for a few blocks beyond the building to finally get some air... all the smokers chucking their cigarette butts everywhere too, it's so lame.

I applaud and love this new law, it's so wonderful to enjoy restaurants, bars, etc in a smoke-free environment. Smokers have no right to blow their crap in other people's faces and lungs IMO. And now the gov'ment is subsidizing "quit smoking aids" like patches and gums, I think it's great. Nobody *needs* to smoke, it's only one more pollutant on this gray earth. Imagine a world with no smokes? :cloud9:

ps: one of my best friends is a very heavy smoker, and he doesn't want to quit he is too addicted. he will be dead before he's 60 and he knows it :sad:

March 13th, 2007, 03:08 PM
Well non smokers also cant have it all,we cant smoke in bars,well any where public,so i just dont feel bad if the sidewalk or streets are filled w/ smoke.I dont blow my smoke directly in peoples faces,although sometimes the attitiude of non smokers,cause god some of them just think we are not people,i really would like to...So maybe non smokers should not leave the house.just kiddin....

March 13th, 2007, 03:19 PM
New legislation in B.C now takes it up one level though. Smoking is already banned in all public places, but now special smoking rooms will be prohibited as well.

Smoking outside near any doorway also will be included on the list of "'cant do". This is the only one I have a problem with.
I just wonder how near is near?:confused:

At a restaurant or other public building, I dont stand right "in" the doorway, but off to the side. If its raining -which it does a lot here - I try to stay under cover.

Actually, Norway closed all smoke rooms about a year ago, so it's not something B.C. made up alone (if they even looked to Norway, something the Norwegians think the world as a whole does, ). I don't necessarily agree with that, because if a smokers' room is properly closed off and ventilated, why is it an offence to non smokers? I'm not offended :shrug:

I do agree with the restaurant policy though. As a non smoker, it it really irritating at times, to have to push through a crowd of stinking smokers and their smoke screen, whether we're going in or out. It seems some smokers wear the same sweaters all week judging by the stale smoke smell (not all of course, no offence intended to you in particular).

What I can't understand, not for the life of me, is why smokers insist on killing themselves slowly and paying for it! :confused: Not only is it expensive :2cents: but also :laughing: a lot of non smokers laugh at them standing there in the cold and rain outside, slaves to their :yuck: habit.

I used to live with a smoker, and there was no way he'd stop. I left. Even when I'd pull the collar of my sweater up over my nose, he didn't do anything other than get mad at me for "demonstrating"! Where was MY liberty in that house? :offtopic: :sorry:

Guess smoking is deffinitely out. What's so hypocritical is that the govenments say NO SMOKING and at the same time cash in on all the tax-money on each pack of cigarettes sold ...

March 13th, 2007, 03:42 PM
I for one have no answer as to why i pay to slowly kill myself,except i am 100% addicted,i have kicked alot of things,but this one is just not happening maybe someday but i do enjoy it,after a good meal,when i wake up,etc etc.If you have never had an addiction then you will never understand ....

March 13th, 2007, 03:51 PM
And i have to say probably 90% of smokers started as a teenager,i did,so it is a habit that has been going on for years,and started,for me,as something i believed would make me cool to other kids in my school.I look at kids now smokin and think you have no idea what you are starting,.I dont know anyone that smokes that started as an adult....

March 13th, 2007, 04:16 PM
heidiho has a point... i wonder if more kids are smoking today than before? or less? :confused:

March 13th, 2007, 04:30 PM
I would think it might be less just because how things have changed w/ cigarettes..But believe me i would never have started as an adult,i remember it clear as day trying my first cigarette in my brothers fort he built in the woods in florida,and just gagging,then probably at 13 to 14 is when i really just took up smoking..I have no regrets w/anything in life,i dont think you should.Except ever trying cigarettes,expensive.deadly.and highly highly addicting.

March 13th, 2007, 04:40 PM
I certainly sympathize with those of you who are so adversely affected by cigarette smoke, who have medical conditions that are worsened by it.. or who just plain dont want to inhale it. :sick: :

As I'd mentioned.. I'm in complete agreement with the ban on smoking in all public places.. long overdue and a sound ruling.
The enclosed smoking areas seemed a good compromise if properly ventilated. I dont go to pubs, where they generally are here.. so these dont affect me one way or the other.:shrug:
I did enter one once at the airport. It was so horrible.:eek: I decided to skip it.

Others forced to breathe your cigarette smoke anywhere is highly unfair.. and selfish.
I would never "trap" another by smoking in a lineup.. or say a crowded outdoor venue where they have no easy exit.

A group of smokers polluting a doorway is a very valid complaint.

My issue was that.. if out of doors and far enough away. I thought it shouldnt present any problem to anyone. I'm not "in" your face.. but in an open area. If you see me with a smoke... can you just not give me a wide berth?

I guess I really wasnt clear on how "much" just one whiff of smoke could affect others who are just walking past.:sick:
So... I understand better how troubling this is to some, and will take this into consideration now.

: Not only is it expensive but also :laughing: a lot of non smokers laugh at them standing there in the cold and rain outside, slaves to their :yuck: habit.

Not just laugh.. but shoot looks of contempt, far back or not.
It's not illegal to smoke. Yet.
Some act like if they can even "see" you .. you are too close.
When I am trying my best to respect their wishes..that bothers me. :mad:

I may not agree with the various lifestyle choices of others, but if it's not affecting me.. its their choice.

I actually had a 2 year quit going.. and was SO proud. A personal tragedy got me started again... but there can always be a "reason", an "excuse" why you dont do things you know you need to.
Time to tackle the tobacco monster again.

March 13th, 2007, 05:04 PM
I smoke and it is the one thing I wish I had never started. I have tried to quit several times, I hate the smell and everything about...but yet I still smoke. Everyday is another day I try to quit. Everyone close to me on a daily basis smokes which makes it that much harder. I am respectful of others that do not smoke and I try only to smoke at home. Most of the time when I go out I leave the smokes at home so I am not tempted but the few times I do I feel embarassed. I also never smoked at work as I didn't want to smell and being it was a clinic, for animals but still a clinic, it just seemed wrong.

I really wish the government would just ban smoking/sale of smokes illegal already but....they make too much money off the taxes. Even though some of that money goes to smoke related illness they still come out on top.

If I could just get my husband to want to quit I know that together we could do it. Good luck to all those who are trying and to all those who have quit and cudos to those that were never tempted.

March 13th, 2007, 05:25 PM
non smokers also can choose whether or not to go somewhere where smokin is permitted..Not when there's one door, and a tunnel of smokers on the other side of it. ;)

If you see me with a smoke... can you just not give me a wide berth?No doubt I would, but it's not as easy as it sounds. I have to position myself and alter my breathing in such a way that when you exhale as I go by, depending on the wind direction, I don't accidentally walk through it anyway. That's the problem with smoking- the smoke isn't limited to your person. You blow it out and it can linger for metres in front of you (and behind you and beside you and above you and....).

I guess I really wasnt clear on how "much" just one whiff of smoke could affect others who are just walking past.There's a difference between smelling smoke and breathing it, if that makes sense. When you take a breath and it's ALL smoke, that's just sickening. :o

Not just laugh.. but shoot looks of contempt, far back or not.
It's not illegal to smoke. Yet.
Some act like if they can even "see" you .. you are too close.
When I am trying my best to respect their wishes..that bothers me.I've given some smokers "the look" but they've deserved it. Some people are anal, yeah, but the squeaky wheels get noticed, not the ones who respect the respectful smokers... :o The same goes the other way too. We non-smokers see a ton of disrespectful, selfish smokers who litter their butts all over every doorway, sidewalk, park, highway, etc etc... It might not be everybody, but they're the ones who ruin it for the respectful invisible ones.:shrug:

Good luck quitting, Shamrock.

March 13th, 2007, 05:32 PM
What i meant was if you know a certain bar or whatever permits smoking then you can choose not to go to that place,which then will keep you away from the front door if smokers are gathered there smoking..

March 13th, 2007, 05:35 PM
But that's the thing- it limits my rights too. If I don't want to drink, I can still go into a bar where there's drinking. If I don't want to smoke, I CAN'T go into a bar where there's smoking. See the difference?

March 13th, 2007, 05:52 PM
Yes i do understand that,but smokers have to accept that we are not welcome everywhere,we are limited to where we can go.I mean if i owned a bar it should be my right to decide if i want to make it smokin or non,and as non smokers why would you want to go in a place that allowed smoking?There are no shortage of places to go in this world.

March 13th, 2007, 05:56 PM
but smokers have to accept that we are not welcome everywhere,we are limited to where we can go.That's life! Drinkers aren't allowed in child daycares either, right? You don't see them fighting to get in. :shrug: People aren't allowed eating fast food in classes in a lot of schools because the smell lingers in the room and people find it totally disgusting. :shrug:

If I drink and my liver fries, it's all me. If you smoke, you fry your lungs, but you fry mine too. :shrug:

March 13th, 2007, 06:04 PM
Okay,i see where this is going,well then that is life when you walk by a place and there are a bunch of people smoking,or it gets blown in your face.Ok i need a cigarette before i can go on..:laughing: :laughing:

March 13th, 2007, 06:08 PM
Grrrr people always smoke under the bus shelters when I'm waiting for a bus and then if it is raining or windy I have to go and stand in the elements. I see nothing wrong with having a smoke in your apartment or a designated area but if a non smoker is close by then thier right to public areas are restricted.

We tend to have a really nasty attitude toward all addictions but as long as it is not hurting someone else I believe it is the individuals choice and if they want help quitting the help should be available. Smokers and any drug users should have rights to freedom and safety just as "non addicted non smokers" should.

The tobacco industry adds dangerous chemicals to thier products to make it more addictive so they can make mega profits. If any of this was really about our health and not money I think we would know by now.:shrug:

March 13th, 2007, 06:19 PM
We sure do,and by no means i am i saying people w/ addictions should be felt sorry for,but it is something that is hard to understand unless you have had one,which i still dont understand why some people are prone to more addictive type personalitys.And myself i like to enjoy my cigarette,so to smoke one somewhere where there are a bunch of non smokers are is something i just dont do for them and for me,even in my own house if there are non smokers there.As for the bus stop and places like that i guess i could see where some smokers just dont care because for the most part everything and every place is now catered to non smoking..And i still have yet to hear of a death where it was proven fact the ONLY reason the person died was from second hand smoke.

March 13th, 2007, 06:23 PM
lol Heidi, there are thousands of people who die of lung cancer from second hand smoke. Waitresses and bartenders are the main ones that I remember...

March 13th, 2007, 06:33 PM
I think the cigerette company's should all shut down and we all can go through withdralls together so the hole world can be bitchy, cranky and all. I for one repect nonsmokers my hubby is one of them and I smoke. the addiction is the worst thing and it's very hard to quite, we should have some rights but repcet others who are nonsmokers

March 13th, 2007, 06:44 PM
I guess i have just never read anywhere that the cause of death from someone was second hand smoke.I tell you that movie Thank you for smoking says it all.And i agree we should respect each other,but as you can see when it comes to non smokers talking about smokers,there is NO respect,no understanding,no thought what so ever,which hey i am not saying they should care about our concerns but if that is the case why should we care about their health concerns ,etc etc??

March 13th, 2007, 07:17 PM
We non-smokers see a ton of disrespectful, selfish smokers who litter their butts all over every doorway, sidewalk, park, highway, etc etc... It might not be everybody, but they're the ones who ruin it for the respectful invisible ones.:shrug:

Yes! Yes! Yes!!! I have yet to meet ONE smoker who does not leave cigarettes butts on the ground... I'm not saying there aren't any, but I have not met one yet...

March 13th, 2007, 07:20 PM
Well we havent met,but here is one.I never ever throw them out the window or put throw on ground and elave it.I used to be that way,but since i moved to Maui i just dont do that,but ashtray for car and if i smoke on the beach cigarette but comes with me when i leave.Geez we all arent like these aliens.....

March 13th, 2007, 07:32 PM to "lighten" up the mood :D

March 13th, 2007, 07:49 PM
:laughing: :laughing: You are to much,that is some funny s***,where do you get these icons....Please,. more...

March 13th, 2007, 07:52 PM

March 13th, 2007, 07:55 PM
LOL frenchy!! call the firemen! :D

March 13th, 2007, 08:01 PM
I'M making jokes but I know it's not funny. I do try to not smoke around non smokers, I do know it's extremely bad, I did try many times to quit (it cost me $315.00 last time, it lasted 3 days :frustrated: ) But I started to smoke when I was in grade 5 , my dad smoked Cameo Menthol and I tought it was like candy. I use to steel one every week end and smoke it on the school yard. :o

March 13th, 2007, 08:15 PM
Lol !! It is funny,that was even better......I cant sit here and dwell on how bad it is for me,i know it,and they can put all the warning signs on the packs and show me all the horrible commercials,but i am just not ready to quit,i have tried,and it is very very hard.

March 13th, 2007, 08:17 PM
and they can put all the warning signs on the packs

Just buy the pack with the pregnant lady on it, those cigarettes are only bad for you if you're prego, right ? right ? :rolleyes:

March 13th, 2007, 08:22 PM
I have been smoking since I was 15 it was the thing to do in those days, I really did'nt like it at first (i whish Id listened to myself) anyway here I am at 69yrs old and still smoking. I have no problem going out for dinner and not being able to have a smoke for a couple of hours, and I dont smoke around non smokers even at MY cabin I go outside to smoke and in the winter that is hard to do I somtimes feel like reminding my kids and there families whose cabin it is LOL.
I would love to quit, I have tried many times the longest I went was 7 months I thought I had it made then a family disaster happened and what did I do grabbed a ciggerette and that was it hooked again, call me lack of whatever but I have no problem quiting other things smoking ???????????

March 13th, 2007, 08:27 PM
Yeah i think so.I also have no problems not smoking around non smokers,when i smoke i want to not have to worry that it is bothering someone,so i just wont do it,funny my parents werent smokers,but when i moved home for awhile they told me i could smoke in the house,it didnt bother them,of course i would not do that,but some people dont mind and actually like the smell.My boss only smokes when he drinks but he said every now and then when he smells a cig he would like to have one,the worse are those people who dont buy cigs cause they really dont smoke but always bum one off of you.

March 13th, 2007, 08:39 PM
How much are cigarettes in Canada??Like marlboro's,they are almost $6.00 a pack here

March 13th, 2007, 08:41 PM
... because if a smokers' room is properly closed off and ventilated, why is it an offence to non smokers? I'm not offended :shrug:

But the staff who have to serve in a smoking section or clean a smoking room have rights as well and one of those rights, in Ontario anyway, is a smoke-free workplace. Accepting a potential for developing cancer and respiratory illnesses or disease should not be a condition of employment for anyone.

March 13th, 2007, 08:42 PM
I think it's about $8 to $9 a pack. I buy mine on the indien reserve, way cheaper, illegal, but cheaper. Hey, I pay enough tax as it is. :mad:

March 13th, 2007, 08:46 PM
Holy crap!! That is alot,but then i also said when they hit 4.00 a pack i would quit..No reservation here,used to do that in Arizona though,or internet and get them from sweden or something....

March 13th, 2007, 08:55 PM
I think they are over $10 here in Toronto.

March 13th, 2007, 08:58 PM
I buy a carton it works out with tax 70.00$ cnd for 8 packs

March 13th, 2007, 09:03 PM
I buy a carton it works out with tax 70.00$ cnd for 8 packs

:eek: omg !

March 13th, 2007, 09:05 PM
:eek: omg !

yup you said it all

March 14th, 2007, 12:35 AM
But I started to smoke when I was in grade 5 , my dad smoked Cameo Menthol and I tought it was like candy. I use to steel one every week end and smoke it on the school yard. :oSo you can't find the power to reverse a decision you made when you were 10? :o

But the staff who have to serve in a smoking section or clean a smoking room have rights as well and one of those rights, in Ontario anyway, is a smoke-free workplace. Accepting a potential for developing cancer and respiratory illnesses or disease should not be a condition of employment for anyone.I totally agree. And it's not just that. Even if the smoking section has a door, what do you think happens when that door opens? Unless they made the smokers leave the restaurant, go around the building and into a completely isolated room with it's own door to outside, the rest of us would still get some. It's like that commercial where they show the smoke climbing all over everything. It's teeny carcinogenic particles you release into the air. They travel. :shrug:

March 14th, 2007, 01:43 AM
Cigarettes here in B.C vary in price.. $7.00 - 9.50, depending on brand and where you buy them.
I buy the lightest cigarette on the market..(which makes NO difference health-wise) They're $8.60 a package.

I wonder if JECM still has her tracking meter going to show how much she has saved my quitting cigarrettes. I forget how long it's been for her.. but must be coming up to a year!
Kudos to her and to the others who have successfully kicked the habit.:thumbs up

I really hate myself as a smoker, but only "I" can change this. If I did it before.. I should be able to do it again.:shrug:

In the meantime though.. I'm trying to show the maximum consideration for others, and I find most smokers I know do the same.
As always, its the thoughtless minority in any group who reflect badly on everyone. :frustrated:

March 14th, 2007, 01:15 PM
It is just not that easy to reverse an addiction you have had for 20 something years (in my case) and for the people that would have to work in those rooms,they know before hand if applying for the job that they would have to work in a smoke filled room,just like everyone says we choose to smoke,you can choose not to work somewhere where there is smoke.

March 14th, 2007, 02:54 PM
yeah i dont think smokers always realized that the cloud of smoke they see isnt the whole cloud of smoke, i didnt but in the last 3 months i can smell cigarettes for 15 ft away, and its disturbing.
using the addiction as an excuse, is exactly that an excuse. millions of people overcome addiction yearly. i smoked since i was 12 and i quit. :shrug: not saying its easy but it can be done.
i have no problem when someone tried to smoke i do have issues with people who when asked to move gives a ton of attitude.
no smoking in restaurants and bars I LOVE IT.... i loved it even when i did smoke, i like eating food and tasting it. and alot of your taste comes from smell which is inhibited when you have to smell cigarettes.
i think if everywhere went non-smoking it wouldnt matter.... it wouldnt slow business at. it just needs to become the norm:shrug:

March 14th, 2007, 03:00 PM
Myself i dont use addiction as the excuse,i do enjoy smoking and i am not at the point where i want to quit.But i have also talked to alot of ex smokers who still every now and then have a smoke.I also like non smoking restaurants,i dont drink so it makes no difference w/bars.But w/ the addiction not everyone is the same so those who have quit that is great,but it differnet for everyone...

March 14th, 2007, 03:04 PM
My dad started smoking when he was 15 and stopped when he was 61. A few months after he stopped I suddenly was able to smell smoke that I just hadn't realised had been around - and I hadn't smoked once in my life.

Even now, the smell doesn't bother me much, though I can understand why some people feel that way. Even though the smell doesn't bug me, though, I never enjoyed going to a bar and coming home smelling like smoke. That's why (and of course because of health reasons) I'm in support of smoke-free bars.

March 14th, 2007, 04:00 PM
This may have already been replied to - saw Prin's answer and she is right - there are many many many documented studies of people who have died of second hand smoke Heidi - and it is especially harmful to children for whom it is often hard to know why they died later in life but the cancer starts early. I guess in my line of work, it just irks me to no end to see parents smoking around their children - or with them in the home. Many now thankfully know the risk and do not do it, they'll smoke when the child is not in the home or somewhere else but that of course means they are teaching the child it is an OK thing to do.

There have been several ppl who have successful won lawsuits as well for illnesses based on 2nd hand smoke,m usually cancer but respiratory illnesses like emphysema as well.

Go to a medical school library and read some of the journals - you will not see studies if you don't read the journals that they are in. :) In New Zealand, a long term landmark study showed that deaths from second hand cigarette smoke was second only to car accidents in the reason why ppl died!!! Sometimes, 2nd hand smoke can be worse to those taking it in than the smoker esp depending on how someone smokes.

A study amg workers in one US company determined 25% of women working there developed cancer or serious cardiac disease due to 2nd hand smoke.

As prin said, restaurant and bar/pub workers are especially at risk and there are more than 100 plus studies on these people who thru no fault of their own - except they worked in places with so much smoke all day long that they had little chance of almost NOT developing some disease based on 2nd hand smoke. One of those numerous studies showed these workers were 50% more likely than those at any other industry to die of cancer or cardiopulmonary diease. I am not certain if you knew that going in , would you actually work in that industry? No one knew that of course yrs ago. In Canada, we have an ad where a former waitress who died of cancer developed a series of ads for some Public Health group explaining her own situation - it was heartbreaking. She never smoked in her life, exercises, had no other factors that might lead to cancer (and all these studies account for family or other issues that might lead to lung cancer like family histories, lifestyle, what they eat, etc.) A JAMA (Journal of Amer Med Assn) showed even a little 2nd hand smoke is dangerous!

Anyway, I could go on but there are studies galore. Go to a library or a lexis nexis and read 0- you will have plenty of reading material!!!

March 14th, 2007, 04:11 PM
It is just like any job that might put you in harms way,you do have a choice not to work there ....I think maybe i am gonna sit out the rest of this debate because i know we are gonna agree to disagree..

March 14th, 2007, 06:06 PM
I don't feel the same about the job thing, when my husband works in a dangerous job situation, he gets paid double and is given ALL of the equipment so that he can do his job safely, ie, safety harness, scaffolding, hardhats, etc.

And he is never asked to be put in a situation where his long-term health may be put into jeapordy.

Someone who is desperate to work may not have a choice as to whether they are working in a smoking or non-smoking environment. To some people work is anything you can get.:shrug:

Just my :2cents:

March 14th, 2007, 08:18 PM
It is just not that easy to reverse an addiction you have had for 20 something years (in my case) and for the people that would have to work in those rooms,they know before hand if applying for the job that they would have to work in a smoke filled room,just like everyone says we choose to smoke,you can choose not to work somewhere where there is smoke.

No its not easy, I smoked for about 15 years really heavily about pack and half a day. First thing I would do would reach for a ciggarette before even getting out of bed. I quit cold turkey for about a year and half, to have kids. That was the motivation for me to quit the first time, is because I thinking smoking while pregnant is the worst thing you can do. I started again afterwards but quit again once I knew I was pregnant with my second. This pregnant girl at work smokes, I am like how can you do that do your child. You have a choice to smoke or not, but your not giving that choice to your unborn child. That is something that bothers, me or smoking in your car with your kid in the back.

Its been a year for me, except for one ciggarette relaspe back in December which made me physically ill for the whole day after. I think when we quit and if we quit it has to be for ourselves not because someone wants us too, or we can get sick from it.

just my two :2cents:

March 14th, 2007, 08:22 PM
But that's the thing- it limits my rights too. If I don't want to drink, I can still go into a bar where there's drinking. If I don't want to smoke, I CAN'T go into a bar where there's smoking. See the difference?

Funny you cant smoke in bars in BC, its just a fact of life. At first it was like well this sucks, but everyone adjusts, I would say the night clubs and bars are just as busy as they were when people could smoke in them. The other day someone startes smoking in the pub where my hubby works. They were from back east or somewhere. :D

Mocha's mum
March 14th, 2007, 08:40 PM
Well, I must say, it is a touchy subject to say the least. I smoke, and I have absolutely no problem smoking outside; I even do it at home. At work, we have a little shack that we go to, blah blah blah. Where I do draw the line is when it's unsafe to make smokers move X amount of feet from entrance ways etc. Here's an example:

Before I started the army thing, I worked in a long term care facility. Management decided that we should go smoke free...which I didn't agree with, but that's beside the point. So, the brilliant idea was that there would be no smoking at all on the premises. Okay, so I used to work I wanted a cigarette at 3 in the morning, I would have to leave the building and go across the street. So, who was monitoring my patients?? What would happen if I got mugged, or stabbed???

Another example:

The University of Alberta Hospital has changed their guidelines about smoking, and moved their smoking area across the street.....across a busy main street that's not well lit at night etc. So, patients of the hospital who wanted to have a cigarette would have to go across this poorly lit, busy main road.

Anyway, like I said, I do my best to respect the non smokers of the world; I don't smoke near entrances, I don't throw my butts on the ground, and I don't make a big deal of going for a "smoke break" at work (I usually go twice a day if time allows). But the way I look at is, there are so many other things out there that are bad for you (drugs, pollution, alcohol)....why are smokers getting such a bad rap?? Why doesn't the government throw more money at toughening animal cruelty legislation, or young offender's legislation?? Or crack down on those a**holes that beat up the Cross of Valour recipient in Petawawa this week??

:sorry: for the rant....I just wanted to get that off of my chest (I get it at work all of the time too). Thanks for listening everyone :o

March 14th, 2007, 10:41 PM
From what I understand nicotine is more addictive than heroin and more difficult to quit.:eek: Maybe that is why there are so many more nicotine addicts than there are heroin addicts.:shrug:

March 17th, 2007, 12:47 AM
I'm sorry Heidi - it is not just like any other job. For years, no one knew of the hazards pf 2nd hand smoke and you have employers who pay minimum wage to mostly women (at least as waitresses - it is kind of a sexist biz) and some of these ppl who own the businesses - even when they know or hear of the 2nd hand smoke - do not choose to believe t or are more interested in their own profits than their employees' health.

may ppl who work as waitresses - esp single parent women and students earning their way thru school (and it can be a good job for a student, with tips et al) have no choice. Either a min wage job that pays zero or a job in a pub that pays more. These are many of the ppl dying now and they also are winning the lawsuits - BUT they are not profiting from the wins. Their family is - as they bury their loved ones. So, no, it is not at all the same as other jobs.

Not all jobs that pose hazards have cancer as a risk. Waitresses and waiters and other wait staff do not sign waivers I(and legally even if they did, that is meaningless in court - any doctor who has been sued by a patient who signed a form and then sued the doctor even the the doctor did nothing wrong knows this!) nor did they always know or realize they were in a position to be exposed to such dangerous substances. The tobacco companies lied for decades about the addictive and dangerous chemicals they used. I do not blame smokers - I blame the tobacco companies for their greed.

Have you ever driven in Richmond, Va? All you have to do is drive by Colonial Heights where one of Phillip Morris' main plants is liocated and if your window is down, oh boy, does it have to go up fast if you have any allergy or problem with cigarette residue!!! The smell is atrocious!! I can;t imagine living there- imagine the workers there!!!!

So, no - people in the restaurant industry are n a unique situation and every public health department in North America agrees on this keep point. I would try to stop smoking of I were you - and I am not trying to tell you how you live but women are affecting more than men by those chemicals for some reason - there are some intriguing work and studies being done on this now. It is not akin to alcohol but I have treated women with addictions and women have a tougher time because alcohol affects their system much differently than men - much worse actally, making it harder for them to stop drinking.

My mom was a smoker for many years- maybe 15 or so. However, when my sister had her baby, she said in no uncertain terms that my mom -as much as my sister loved her was not allowed in her home with a cigarette unless she stopped smoking. My mom made up the most ridiculous excuses for smoking - she was going to bread, she forgot to get milk. And stopping was akin almost to heroin - not that she'd ever tried that. She is so anti drug that it is kind of amusing for her to take the position she does about addictions when here she was addicted to tobacco!! She had surgery concurrently to my nephew being born so she felt badly and was recuperating and thus she never touched a cigarettes since then - some 21 years ago - and she did it cold turkey. I am very proud of her and I know if she can do it, anyone can!!! I've also seen women with lung cancer stop cold turkey (have a cousin who did that - and she too ironically had been addicted to many different drugs and was active in Narcotics Anonymous and a variety of self help groups yet she still smoked!!!! We tried and tried to get her to quit but only lung cancer succeeded!! I do not want that to happen to you too!!

On the other side of coin, I just lost a cousin to lung cancer and it had not occurred to me until a colleague pointed it out that she was so addicted to it that she did not want to give up her cigarettes!! A social worker married to a pediatrician ,she was a very bright woman whose daughter had just graduated from med school. She had a cough all summer and even tho she volunteered at the hospital, refused to see her family doc, arguing with all of us that it was just "allergies" or some other minor problem. At last, she became so sick that she agreed to visit the ER. She was diagnosed with late stage carcinoma of the lung!! Initially, her oncologist - a man I think of one of the best - gave her 3 months but while I was on my way to see her in the hospital, he called me on my cell phone to say she has about 48 hrs. She died about a day later!! My colleague noted to e she probably "knew" at some level she had lung cancer - she was around medical people and places enough - and she could not bring herself to give them up. Addiction is a powerful force!! I think now she knew what she was doing. She took off her own oxygen mask and was lucid, talking to us right up to the end of her life. It was a needless death for someone so young and makes me incredibly angry so I will go to my death fighting against the scourge called smoking!!!!! And you are a smart woman so please, please - look at the facts and try to find some program or something that works for you. I do not want to loose any one else to cancer!!! And smoking is ensuring that lung cancer is one of the top killers of women. If I am scaring you, that is my intention - I do not want to loose anyone, especially a smart cat lover who does good work and seems like a wonderful person!!!! Do not let the tobacco companies claim any more lives!!!!

March 17th, 2007, 09:29 AM
Actually quitting smoking was probably one of the best things I ever done for myself. But its not easy and I dont like to preach about it. I think anyone that has overcome any type of addictions knows the feeling of gaining control over something and not letting it control you. It is empowering for me now that ciggarettes dont control me now, as they did for so many years.

This is what I would do for a ciggarette in the past.:o

scrounge together every single I could find, roll up quarters, nickles etc... and go buy ciggarettes.

Take the bus all the way accross town, to buy the cheapest smokes I could find.

Go to downtown Vancouver mall, very scary area so I could buy single ciggarettes, when I couldnt afford a pack.

Live off no name macaroni and cheese so I could smoke.

Get giddy with excitement when one of my friends offered me a good deal on a carton of ciggarettes.

Walk 2 miles to the bottle depot, with two garbage bags full of empty beer cans and bottles, so I could cash them in to buy ciggarettes.

Borrowing money off of friends when I was broke, because I couldnt handle the thought of going with ciggarettes for even one hour.

Chain smoking one after the other, because you dont have matches or a lighter, and if you put one out you wont be able to light it again.

... anyways I am so glad I dont have to go through that anymore, if I have a craving, which is pretty much never now. Then I think back to those times. :)

March 18th, 2007, 02:24 AM
Bravo Joey's Mama, it is not easy - as I know, having watched my mom!!!! :thumbs up :thumbs up Good for you for giving it up!!!! I know any addition is tough to give up and do not wish it on anyone!!!!! Congrats on getting rid of yours!!!

My mom is now one who cannot even stand the smell of it - I never could - but like you, she found a zillion excises to go to the store to buy cigarettes but never had to go to a bad part if the city (if only because we did not live in a city tho!) to score her cigarettes!

You are an example of someone who has overcome what addiction can do amd that it can be overcome!! :thumbs up :thumbs up

March 18th, 2007, 11:15 AM
It is just like any job that might put you in harms way,you do have a choice not to work there ....I think maybe i am gonna sit out the rest of this debate because i know we are gonna agree to disagree..

Workers such as Police and Firefighters can expect risk of job-related injury or fatality. Those risks are balanced by specialized equipment and clothing.

A restaurant or a bar exists to serve food and drink. The associated harm might be in broken glass, sharp knives, wrist strain and sore feet. Not cancer and respiratory illness or disease.

March 18th, 2007, 04:36 PM
I have been smoking for over 50 years (im not boasting) I wish I had never started but I did and I find it impossible to quit now. I have self diciplin for a lot of things but that one has me beat Im ashamed to say.
I have no problem not smoking when I go out for dinner or when I visit my kids
(they dont allow smoking in the house or around there children) which Im fine with. Even when they come out to MY cabin I go outside to smoke which during the summer is no problem but winter is a bit much so I dont go out in the winter they do. :confused:

March 18th, 2007, 05:00 PM
to make clear the last point in my above post, when I say they go out in the winter I dont I meant they visit the cabin in the winter I dont.