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Need input for a change of kibbles

KimandAutumn
February 27th, 2007, 12:57 PM
Autumn is currently on Go! Natural Chicken, Fruit and Vegetable which she absolutely loves.

When she went into the vet for her spay last week the vet said she has food allergies which I already suspected due to past troubles with various kibbles she's had. Her recommendation was of course MediCal Sensitivity RC... no thanks.

Since I really like Petcurean food I am considering trying the Salmon and Oatmeal blend. I bought a small sample bag last night just to see if Autumn would like it and she loved it.

Just wondering of any others that I could possibly consider?

I really like the grain free dog foods that are coming out like the new one by Petcurean and there is another one, Orijen that looks nice. Having a giant breed dog (Great Dane) one thing that people drill into my head is between 22-24% protein and 12-14% fat. I do know other people with giant breed dogs such as Danes and Mastiffs that successfully feed these high protein, grain free diets. Does anyone have any comments on this? I would love to go grainfree with Autumn but I don't want to cause her any health defects either.

Scott_B
February 27th, 2007, 01:19 PM
Do you know what shes allergic too?

I would try the Salmon & Oatmeal see if that helps her allergies.

Or even the Evo Red meat if shes no longer a puppy.

gypsy_girl
February 27th, 2007, 01:31 PM
The Salmon and Oatmeal diet is a great alternate protein diet, as it is one -not so used in pet food protein, and one carb. Grain free of any food is also an option, if you have a way to determine what the potential allergen is. Because the Chicken GO! is Chicken, Rice, Barley, etc your dog could be allergic to any of those protein sources (each carb has a protein fraction)
The grain free of course do not have grain, but most of them are poultry, with a few fish etc.
In relation to excess protein, the residual is excreted in the urine, and research shows that high levels ARE NOT harmful. Because you are low carb in these diets, the fat gets used for energy, as well as the protein, so depending on the activity level of the dog, that excess protein can be turned into glucose for energy.

KimandAutumn
February 27th, 2007, 01:32 PM
Corn, wheat, and soy that we know of. I am not certain at this point what if anything that she is allergic to in the Go! Natural but vet felt that one protein, one carb source would benefit her more. She is 7.5 months old.

gypsy_girl
February 27th, 2007, 01:37 PM
I would say Salmon and Oatmeal would be best then, as alot of the no grain are high protein, which is not recommended (and the Calcium Phosphorus Level not appropriate)
There is no corn wheat or soy in GO Chicken so I would suspect something else.

Goldens4Ever
February 27th, 2007, 04:51 PM
What about Timberwolf Organics Ocean Blue? There are not any grains in that formula & the protein is moderate (26%).

rainbow
February 27th, 2007, 06:46 PM
I would try the Go Natural Salmon and Oatmeal as well. Petcurean no longer adds menadione sodium bisulphate complex to their foods. :highfive:


Go Natural Salmon and Oatmeal

Ingredients:
Salmon Meal, Salmon, Oatmeal, Whole Oats, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols [Vitamin E], Citric Acid [Vitamin C] and Rosemary extract), Oat Fiber, Inulin (FOS), Mannanoligosaccharides (MOS), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Yeast Culture, Vitamin A Acetate, Cholecalciferol (Vitamin D3), dl Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (Vitamin E), Ferrous Sulfate, **Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Sulfate, **Copper Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, **Manganese Proteinate, Riboflavin, Calcium Iodate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate, Menadione Sodium Bisulphate Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Vitamin B12.

Crude Protein - (min) - 22.00%
Crude Fat - (min) - 12.00%
Crude Fiber - (max) - 3.80%
Moisture - (min) - 10.00%
Omega 6 Fatty Acids - 2.75%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids - 0.30%
Vitamin E - (min) - 200 IU/kg

Prin
February 27th, 2007, 10:19 PM
The high protein foods generally aren't recommended for large breed growing puppies. The calcium is just too high and can cause bone malformations. The orijen one is lower in calcium, but still not low enough (1.4% in the large breed puppy one), and with the protein being chicken, you might not resolve the allergy.

Ideally, you want your calcium around 1%, if not lower if he's still growing...

Even though the DVP is pretty low in protein, the calcium is at 1.0% and it might help with the allergies for now...
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/allergy/SPFish.html

Prin
February 27th, 2007, 10:39 PM
Read this article:
http://b-naturals.com/Jun2006.php
In particular, this part:

“In addition to excessive calcium intake, researchers have shown that over nutrition can also initiate these disturbances in skeletal maturation and growth. An excess protein intake, without an excess of other nutrients revealed NOT to influence skeletal maturation and growth in growing Great Danes (Ref. 2).” “Disturbances of skeletal growth were also seen in research animals (Great Danes), which were energy restrictedly raised on a food with a normal calcium level (1.0 - 56 calcium on dry matter base, according to the requirements of dogs as followed by many of the manufacturers and owners for dog food preparation). Therefore we now advise to raise dogs, vulnerable for these skeletal diseases, on a balanced food with a calcium content decreased to 0.8 or 0.9% on dmb (dry matter basis).”

gypsy_girl
February 28th, 2007, 11:55 AM
I am on the same page with you Prin. I don't think high protein is an issue, more the calcium content. I also think that overfeeding is also THE big issue, as energy in the form of protein, carbs or fat, is still calories.

Prin
March 1st, 2007, 01:16 AM
It's all about bone formation, IMO, and if the calcium is too high or the dog is fed too much, the bones form too quickly. :shrug:

MARTYnBENTLEY
March 1st, 2007, 01:41 AM
Sold gold Barking at the moon

Salmon Meal | Beef | Potatoes | Potato Protein | Canola Oil | Tomato Pomace | Natural Flavor | Salmon Oil | Choline Chloride | Taurine | Dried Chicory Root | Parsley Flakes | Pumpkin Meal | Almond Oil | Sesame Oil | Yucca Schidigera Extract | Thyme | Blueberries | Cranberries | Carrots | Broccoli | Vitamin E Supplement | Iron Proteinate | Zinc Proteinate | Copper Proteinate | Ferrous Sulfate | Zinc Sulfate | Copper Sulfate | Potassium Iodide | Thiamine Mononitrate | Manganese Proteinate | Manganous Oxide | Ascorbic Acid | Vitamin A Supplement | Biotin | Calcium Panthothenate | Manganese Sulfate | Sodium Selenite | Pyridoxine Hydrochloride | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Riboflavin | Vitamin D Supplement | Folic Acid

Product Description New! Grain Free, High Protein, Low Carbohydrate dry dog food for performance dogs.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein, min 42%
Crude Fat, min 20%
Crude Fiber, max 4%
Moisture, max 10%

465 kcal / cup

Bentley is eating the hundchen flocken ( puppy ) but when hes old enough were moving up to this one

Prin
March 1st, 2007, 01:46 AM
Jemma's eating that now, but it's not suitable for growing dogs...