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A tribute to Cecilia

March 29th, 2004, 06:13 PM

A family lost a little girl, the world lost a friend.
This poor child was kidnapped as she slept in her bed, murdered and her body dumped in a wooded area. She lay there for months until a hiker found her remains.

This lovely child was sweet and innocent and loved animals.
God Bless Cecilia and we pray for her family to give them strength.

Police looking for leads in Zhang murder case News Staff

Forensic experts are at work in a ravine just west of Toronto, searching for clues that might lead them to the killer of nine-year-old Cecilia Zhang.

Cecilia's skeletal remains were found Sunday by a hiker walking through thick brush in a Mississauga ravine, five months after the young girl went missing from her North York home, 50 kilometres away.

Police have not said if they know how she died or how long her body was in the area.

Investigators are now combing the area for clothing or any other clues that may lead them to the girl's killer. They remain tight-lipped about any leads they may have in the case, but CTV Toronto affiliate CFTO reports that no clothing has been found in the area.

At Seneca Hill Drive Public School, where Cecilia had been a Grade 4 student, the flag is flying at half-staff. Ten social workers and psychologists met with Cecilia's classmates and teachers Monday to help them deal with the tragedy.

"There's a time to mourn and there's a time to laugh and we want children to know that it's OK to feel both those emotions,'' said Jim Watt, Toronto District School Board superintendent.

"Our hearts go out to her parents, Raymond and Sherry, and our thoughts and prayers are with them," said a statement from a teacher the school.

Jack Jia, a friend of the Zhangs, told Canada AM the entire community is grieving the loss of Cecilia.

"We are... terribly saddened," Jia said. "She was a talented, gifted student and she loved playing piano, reading, and she was always playing with my two children."

Toronto city council observed a moment of silence in memory of the little girl, and Mayor David Miller said the development has touched him personally.

"I'm a parent of a young girl myself and it's just unimaginably horrible," he told reporters. "And they need to know we're thinking of them and praying for them."

Cecilia was last seen in her north Toronto home as she went to bed on Sunday, Oct. 20, 2003. Her parents awoke Monday to find her missing, sparking an Amber alert, a massive search and a series of televised appeals for information on the case.

A back window screen was found ajar in the Zhang home, leading to the abduction theory. Two phone calls to the family home, made from pay phones in the Brampton area before the kidnapping was reported, also lent credence to the kidnapping theory.

Investigators speculated that Zhang may have been kidnapped for profit, but no ransom claim was ever made public.

Police launched an international manhunt for the girl, working with both American and Chinese authorities. The crime was covered on the TV series "America's Most Wanted."

Zhang's parents had raised $85,000 in reward money; community members and police at one point topped the fund up to $165,000.

Cecilia would have turned 10 on Tuesday. Her parents issued a statement Monday evening to say they will go ahead with a planned afternoon birthday celebration, and then will ask the media to leave them to begin making funeral arrangements.

March 29th, 2004, 06:23 PM
Isn't that just horrible?!!!

And since we're on, one question, did they have a dog?

March 29th, 2004, 06:38 PM
I hope the family can find some closure now.

I am heart broken that there is people out there that do these awful things to kids.

March 29th, 2004, 06:45 PM
The family has pets I just cannot remember which kind.

March 29th, 2004, 07:22 PM
OMG!! I just reread my post and realized how cold I sounded...I am so sorry!!
But now I'm afraid I have to vent...
Every day children are starved, beaten, raped ( or molested as the court system likes to call it ) or brutally murdered!
I am no longer surprised by the scum that accompanies us on earth, however, I may be wrong, but some peoples parents.....
I am paranoid enough about my kids and we live near a small town, but to live in a big city I would be an overprotective FREAK!!!
Did they not have a security system? or better yet a dog?!! There is no way any one could get into or house without us KNOWING ABOUT IT!!!
I know this is not the time especially for the parents but the real victim is again a child!!
I didn't follow this case that closely because I knew in my heart that after a week had passed.... and this kind of stuff is just way too frustrating for me!!
So again I apologize for the earlier post..

March 29th, 2004, 07:37 PM
The abductors used an extension ladder and sliced the screen to her bedroom window where they got in. It happened overnight in the very early morning hours.

So very very sad

Light a candle for this little angel who left the earth far too soon.

March 29th, 2004, 08:13 PM
"good gurl" Luba :D

"you do a fine, fine tribute"... :D
such a touching gesture... :(

~~IF i didn't see a contribution devoted to Cecilia, i was going to write 1 myself cuz Cecilia & her family have been in my prayers since this first began...

but ya done good :);)

March 29th, 2004, 08:17 PM

Well, now I really feel like crap. :( . That poor family..

March 29th, 2004, 09:08 PM
Just keep her family in your thoughts and send some positive energy to the universe in hopes the evil doers will be found!

March 29th, 2004, 09:20 PM
Prayer for the Child~

For every child who cries at night
Alone with shame and pain and fright
For every child who wants so much
To only feel a gentle touch
For the beaten child, who cries in pain
Whose tears run silent, like the rain

For the child used to satisfy lust
Who never learns to love or trust

For the child taken from her/his home
And made to feel so all alone

For the child whose home is just a shell
Where life becomes a living --heck--

For the child who smiles but cannot feel
Because of scars too deep to heal

For every child who yearns for love
I hope and pray to God above
To hear your cries and heal your pain
And give you back your life again

~~author unknown~~

March 29th, 2004, 09:54 PM
I am in line for the family.

Where I come from we hold a conga line of prayers, good will and wishes. We dance the conga line to gather others in strength.
So I am forever dancing in line to bring this family some closure.

So much evil in our lives..we have to stop this...

Remembering Carlie Brucia...11 years old, would..should have been 12 years old two weeks ago.

Please Dear God , hold these children close.

March 30th, 2004, 07:43 AM
Very nice tribute Luba .....and very thoughtful.

God bless the family

March 30th, 2004, 08:31 AM
My thoughts and prayers are with her family.They can have peace now.

2 of my friends have lost their little girls to a monster

Little Kayla Klaudusz-1991

We all went on the search looking for her.


Holly Jones-2003

She dissapeard a day after we went to Mexico.I got the news when we came back.

These 2 beautiful girls lived a few blocks from me.And I knew their parents very well.Kaylas parents more.Kaylas dad(Steve) bowled with us.Kayla would hang out with my daughter.My daughter was a year older then Kayla.It broke her heart.

Holly lived 3 doors down from one of my best friends.

It just sickens me to no end.These monsters need to die a slow death.Not only that,they should let the public deal with them.

I kept my daughter in a bubble for the longest time.She was by me like glue.

If I recall,Cecilia had a cat.:(

RIP Cecilia.

March 30th, 2004, 08:57 AM
Mona I searched for beautiful little Kayla myself (hugs)
and Holly went to school with my sister in laws nephews.

My neighbour lost her 2 year old daughter, murdered by her husband whom the law said he had the right to see. He left her body in the woods, beautiful little Alexis Curry.

Oh how the children suffer needlessly at the hands of evil.

March 30th, 2004, 10:10 AM
But Luba,have you not noticed how times have changed?

When I was (much) younger,it was safe to go to school alone at 8 years old.It was safe to play on the streets.It was safe to go to the store by yourself.

It really makes me sick how parents now send their 6 year olds to the store on their own.The little ones are running the streets now.No parents around.They talk to strangers.I always taught Kyra NEVER to talk to strangers or even say hi to them.

Before I moves here,there was a family on my street.2 boys,4 and 6,4 year old was deaf.And a their 3 year old sister.They were always playing on the road,talking to strangers.The 3 year old was even up the street away from the house.Then the 2 brothers followed.I yelled at them to get back.I was yacking with my friend who lived next door.The mother finally came out.Called the kids,and gave them a wallop.We both freaked on the mother when she did this.I said to her what the ****** are you doing in the house and letting them out by them selves.Childrens aid was called.The 3 year old came out with sissors.Some people should just not have kids.

And with what's been going on,kids should not be out of their parents site.Just makes me sick.

I already had a bad experience with Kyra when she was younger.Some drunk tried to take her,right in front of me,and 2 other kids.Lets just say I had a sore fist and he had a sore eye.:D

I would kill to pretect my daughter.And I am sure others would agree.

March 30th, 2004, 11:30 AM
SMH we all have those types of stories, everyone knows someone who's life has been touched by some creep.

When I was 4 a man tried to abduct me from the front of my home. I got away from him luckily, he ended up abducting a young boy later that same summer. Luckily someone took off after him in their car when they saw what happened. He ended up slowing down and throwing the kid outta the moving car.

It's all devastatingly real!!!

March 30th, 2004, 03:41 PM
Little Cecilia had two cats,she would have been 10 yrs old today,a sweet innocent little girl:(
It's unimaginable what the parents must feel,even though the whole city of Toronto is supporting them,at night they are alone with their grief and horror.
And somewhere out there on street walks a monster....
Many people cried for this little girl,including me and my thoughts are certainly with Cecilia and her parents.
"Prayer for a child"was very touching...and makes me remember the little baby who starved to death,I think a couple of years ago,because the mother did not feed him,somehow the symphaties were turned to her and she was free to go,nobody heard or cared about that little boys cries


March 30th, 2004, 04:15 PM
It makes me mad too, the mother "just didn't feed him." Unless they were both starving, what on earth was she thinking? What idiots, and its always the children that get it. The parents (as always) don't pay nearly enough attention to where their kids are. The same goes for dogs.

Maybe you can hire out your dogs for babysitters, Mona:D

March 30th, 2004, 04:29 PM
I agree Spoiled,but that was not the case with Cecilia,she was taken from her bedroom.
But in many other cases yes..
Lifestyles have changed now from when my kids were small,material things rather than family seems to be the most important and kids somehow get lost in the shuffle.
Too many latch-key kids out there coming home to an empty home,or maybe just hanging out at the mall.
Mom and dad have to work to keep their lifestyles and the importance of having dinner together,talk about problems at school in many cases forgotten,as are the children.

March 30th, 2004, 04:33 PM
Didn't they leave the window open?:confused:

March 30th, 2004, 05:05 PM
Spoiled,the would probably do a much better job at watching the kids then the parents.:D

chico,you are sooooooooo right.There are ar to many latch-key kids out there.And it's so very sad.Yes,I understand that now a days both parents must work.But for god sakes,have someone watch them so they are not left alone.

I can't get over the mouth on these kids.All the swearing.And I'm talking about the 5,6,7 year olds.

I'm not going to tell you what an 8 year old wanted to do to me.Lets just say it was sexual.It made me sick.

If anyone would like to send condolences to the family,here is the website.

I'm sorry,but I have a feeling she was watched before she was abducted.How else did the B*****D know that that was her room.And there were 2 pics on the website that they had for her when she dissapeard.The 2 pics where taken in the same spot they founf her body.

March 30th, 2004, 05:48 PM
Cecilia's window was vandalized she lived on the second floor and they needed a ladder to get to her.

This child was not a latch key kid.

Nobody is safe, whether you lock your windows or not there is always a way to get in! Security systems can be bypassed and locks can be broken, jimmied or tampered with through using magnetic devices and electronic rewiring.

Blaming the parents who are suffering is inappropriate.

It would be a different story if the parents were in some way involved with her disappearance and murder. The blame should rest, with the ones responsible for her death!!!!

March 30th, 2004, 05:52 PM
Luba, that was a lovely poem and I printed it off to pass around to a few friends. Thanks.

Mona_b, I am with you all the way!!! Whenever a child gets hurt now, family is almost always on my top suspicion list. And I'm not saying that Cecilias family is but, we all must certainly remember Diane Downs, Susan Smith ( crying on t.v. that a black man stole her vehicle with her babies in it ), and last but certainly not least the most horrifying one yet: Andrea Yates.
After these women, who their babies, should have known would DIE for them instead, watched them as they disposed of them like some people ( who we would criticize!!! ) dispose of their unwanted animals then naturally I have to wonder...
Only if the ****en bleeding hearts of this world would get their **** together and maybe bring the death penalty to Canada, ( and now with DNA tests, wrongful arrests should be eliminated )maybe we could start wiping some of this EVIL off the planet!!!

March 30th, 2004, 06:07 PM
Yes it is a beautiful poem.

One cannot help but have thoughts of 'I wonder' if the parents were involved. However, I do believe it is cruel to make any sort of distinction in that direction without cause to do so.

As Mona will remember the blame set towards the parents of Kayla back in the 90's and what they went through, it is unimaginable.

I could not imagine the severity of depression, overwhelming sadness, helplessness and guilt any parent goes through in this situation.

March 30th, 2004, 06:21 PM
Yes, the blame cannot be put on the parrent's shoulders.

March 30th, 2004, 06:37 PM
I don't think anyone is putting the blame on the parents! I think in todays society parents have to be checked out!! Nobody is saying anything about Cecilia's parents, we're talking parents in general. We've all seen them in action. And when any death of a child happens, everyone one has to be checked out!!
Most child molestions happen from a parent or close relative:mad:
How can we trust anyone? No one knows what goes on behind peoples closed doors.. And there is no excuse when a parent is involved. Everyone gets on about the "poor" child but when their accused is brought to justice, some people say they have a right to live too. Why in the name of God are these people protected?
I'm sorry Luba you may get depressed about these situations but I get pissed off!!

March 30th, 2004, 07:53 PM
My parents divorced when I was six years old. My father raised me and my two older brothers in Marathon, Fl. He flew for Pan Am out of Miami Int'l and would be away for weeks at a time. (Back in the sixtie's) We went to school, fished a lot, spear fishing too. Totally unsupervised unless you count the owner of the next door bait & tackle father would check in with him every few days. Once my brother had to peddle me on the handle bars of his bike to the doctors to have a trouble hook removed from my dad settled up with him upon his return.
Life was good. We did not have much but we were never concerned about sicko's lurking about. The thought never even crossed our minds.
It is a sad shame what has become of our society in just a few decades. The more time I spend around people the more I gravitate towards animals.
I want to move to a secluded Island .

March 30th, 2004, 08:25 PM
Just keep in mind every situation is unique and different.

We've all been touched by sicko's in some way, yes? But we can't let them distort our views of reality. It can be hard to trust be we cannot live our lives sheltered and afraid.

I am not 'depressed' over the situation with Cecilia, sad yes and p'd off as well.

BTW Karin what is a trouble hook? Thats a unique memory you have of your childhood :)

March 30th, 2004, 08:39 PM
I don't think anyone is putting the blame on the parents!

I didn't mean it that way.:o

March 30th, 2004, 08:41 PM
Hey whats important through all of this is that we each take away something we have learned or felt to embrace our children, family, loved ones and friends the best way we know how!!

So, my family
(((HUGS))) to ya but only if you have no cooties ;)

(Luba runs fast to get showered afterwards) :eek: :eek: :eek:

March 30th, 2004, 09:22 PM
Luba,cooties???Is that doggie-language:confused:
I did not insinuate that i thought Cecilias parents were in any way involved....
I watched a program tonight about "evil"and it was said,true evil exsist only in the human animal and he was sooo right..
Nite All!!!

March 30th, 2004, 10:54 PM
Luba..a "trouble hook"is one term for a three pronged hook of any size. It is like 3 hooks welded together.
I still fish.It's in my blood.

Back to the subject...Laws need to change .Our children need more protection than ever before. Parents need to have their parental rights restored again. Here, in the states , some parents are afraid to excersise those rights for fear of being arrested for abuse. At the same time abused children are returned to their abusive parents only to end up on a slab at the medical examiners office., then on the front page of the local newspaper. Then they are forgotten.
This is a touchy subject for me..sorry. I have not lost a child but have seen way to much of this and have known plenty of parents who have lost a child due to a sicko.I have a sicko in prison now, Christopher Hanson, which was found guity of raping my then 10 year old daughter. She will be 30 this year and still suffers more than I will ever know. My Grandkids suffer too.
Okay, I'm getting worked up...sorry. Time to quit.

March 31st, 2004, 07:39 AM
Karin,at least in the US you have the satisfaction(if there is any?)of knowing this man will be in jail for a very long time,unfortunately here in Canada our jail-terms are laughable and the perpetrators will always be back on the street to continue praying on kids,until one is killed:mad:
I also believe that violence by our young people many times stems from disrespect of the parents,lack of dicipline etc...lack of respect for other peoples property and feelings, breeds callous unfeeling criminals.
A friend of mine,hard-working single mom,working overtime to buy her 15yr old son the latest fashiongear often gets pushed around and abused by her son.
I personally witnessed him calling her a "F$$$$ing fat bitch!!",now if my sons had ever said that to me he would have had a slap across the face and today I could be charged....
Sorry for getting off the subject!!

March 31st, 2004, 08:28 AM
Amen, sisters, Amen!

Karin, my sympathies to you, and especially your daughter..I can't even begin to imagine your anger and frustrations or your daughter's pain..
But we need strong people like yourselves in this world to continue succeeding in prove that they may hurt you but they can never destroy you...

March 31st, 2004, 08:37 AM
Nooooooooo Luba.

I wasn't blaming the parents at all.I was saying that with the latch-key kids,and all the little ones wandering the streets,that with what has been going on with the kids,they should be watched closer.But the parents I do blame are the ones who let them wander the streets.Especially the young ones.

I know Cecilia was at home and in her room.

As in Kaylas case,I do blame the babysitter.It was her fault for NOT taking Kayla home.She sent Kayla(3 years old) down the back way 3 floors down by herself.Where were her brains.This was the Parkdale area.NOT a very good area at all.My best friends father-in-law was investigating that case.

Children are so precious.And there are many parents who don't realize that.My daughter is my life.I raised her for many years on my own from birth.We are VERY close.We spend alot of time together.Even travelling to the warm spots.And check out the hotties.:D ....Everyone thinks that we are sisters.Which she hates cause she thinks I'm to old to be her sister.LOL.We both joined the gym together.She is and always will be my baby.If I ever lost her,I don't know what I would do.We always give hugs and tell each other how much we love each other.I have had some rough times with her.But she is a good kid.Everyone says I have done a great job.She is very polite.Doesn't mouth off at people.But she can have a temper at times.Geez,I wonder where she gets that.:D

(((HUGS))))) to all...And I don't have cooties..:( :(

March 31st, 2004, 08:42 AM
OMG mona, she's gorgeous but get that damn picture off the internet for God's sake! LOL. No actually I'm serious!!!

March 31st, 2004, 09:09 AM
Thank you.

Oh I know all about that.;)

Just wanted to show her off.:D

March 31st, 2004, 09:27 AM
Well done mate!!!
She sounds like a good kid! I myself is a firm believer in politeness, respect, and tempers. My children have those qualities as well!! And it does make you proud because they are decent when they should be, but they also stand up for themselves and others, because they know momma bear is right behind them!!! :D
One thing I've always tried to teach them is responsibilities for their actions!! If they believe in something, then stand up for it, (thats when that temper comes in handy!:D )and if they screw up, then they can take the consequences that come with it!!

I suppose your going to claim responsibility for her good looks as well??!!:D :D LOL

March 31st, 2004, 09:48 AM


And I watch every step she makes on the computer too.

That's another thing that pisses me off with some parents.They don't care what the kids are doing on the comp.How many have met someone off the net?How many have been abducted and murdered from this?It is soooooooo very easy to pose as a teen and get friendly with them to the point they will meet the person.

When hubby and I are not home,we have the password on it.She has to wait till one of us is home to go on it.And the computer is right here in the living room.We refuse to have one in her room.

March 31st, 2004, 09:54 AM
Oooooh! You wanna know a good "parent and computer" story?
Tell me what you think of this..
A 15-1/2 year old girl met someone on the internet and you know what her mother did??
She not only let her arrange to meet this person, she drove her there!!!
As I've said before some people's parents!!!

March 31st, 2004, 09:57 AM
Oh Mona I know that you didn't mean that she was latch key I was just pointing it out to those who may not have known the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

Glad to hear you don't have cooties
LOL Anita I don't think you do either :D

Karin ((((special hugs)))) I know all to well what you went through with your daughter. I raised my god daughter because of her terrible mother and the environment she was in was abusive and destructive. The times she did spend with her mom she came back abused by moms b/fs or sold to men for their pleasures since the time she was in diapers. Her siblings (3) all faced the same. I did as much as I could to help them all and eventually through years pushing childrens aid they were all finally apprehended from the mother. HOWEVER the mother still had a say and the children, not even my god daughter were permitted communication with me.
6 mons later childrens aid returned them all to the mother, to the same environment.... of which I have no idea where they are or what has happened.

Most people do not know this but Childrens Aid Society is NOT a government institution but a privately run facility only 'funded' by the ministry of community and social services.

After 9 years of fighting with CAS and 4 kids abused in every way imaginable (no need to explain that) I have NO respect for CAS and NO faith in them EVER doing what is best for the children.

March 31st, 2004, 10:08 AM
Are you serious Chany?

WTF?.No brains at all.:mad:

CAS makes me sick.

Not sure if you heard this one Luba.

There was a family living around the corener from me.I think she had 3 kids.Father was not around.She was beating on them.The youngest one more.He was around 2-3 years old.CAS was called in.They did Jack S**T about anything.He ended up dying.They found him in the bed.She was charged with murder and only then were the other children taken away.Just sickening.

((((((HUGS)))))) to Karin and Luba.

We live in a sick world.:mad:

As for the cooties,I got rid of them last year....:p

March 31st, 2004, 10:21 AM
Oh, I'm very serious mona!!

Why is it that you can't discipline your child nowadays without thinking they could take them away from you but you can beat them and they let them go back?
I often hear some people say that their own children threaten to phone social services on them if they disciplined them. DISCIPLINED them, told NO! you can't go out. WTF is that?
I was once telling my children about this friend of mine, whose child told her this, and I looked at them and explained to them that if they ever threatened me with that kind of bull**** that I'd help them pack their bags but there wouldn't be anything with them because they'd leave the same way they came with NOTHING!! ( Not that I would, but they don't know that, do they:D ?)

March 31st, 2004, 10:25 AM
But you know many parents aren't raising their kids these days are they Chany. I agree with you completely.

Kids are raised first by daycare then by tv then by school mates, teachers and afterschool activities of which they get into mischief.

Parental rolls have changed completely over the past 30 years.

When I decide to have children, I will raise them myself. I am not a fan of daycare in the least. Children can learn socialization skills from playing with other kids in the park or at special play groups.

Daycare cost an arm leg and then some, and the kids end up sick all the time cross contaminating one another with (my fav word) cooties.

OMG Chany she DROVE to the meeting....the ridiculous manner of thought and the complete disregard for teaching safety. What a moronic idiot!!

Mona I do not recall that story (so very sad)
I do recall the story of Randall Dooley a child who was murdered by his father and step mother here in Scarborough. The family HAD a CAS case worker and the school reported the child looked sick and abused.

HE WAS starved and tied up, beaten and left for dead!!

Little precious life... the same CAS *****heads I dealt with allowed this little boy to be murdered.

National Post columnist Christie Blatchford has followed the murder trial of Randal Dooley almost since it began on January 15, 2002. This column was originally printed on Jan. 22.

TORONTO - The Children's Aid Society of Toronto appears to have become most keenly interested in Randal Dooley only after the little boy was dead, virtually every inch of his slight frame, inside and out, battered, bruised or broken.
This was the stunning sum of evidence at the criminal trial of Randal's accused killers yesterday.

Charged with second-degree murder in the seven-year-old's death are his natural father, 36-year-old Tony Dooley, and his 30-year-old stepmother, Marcia Dooley.

But while the magnitude of the physical damage they are alleged to have inflicted upon the little boy was not revealed until autopsy -- where it was determined that Randal had suffered the sort of massive blunt-force injuries usually seen in young children only when they have darted out between parked cars and been struck by a vehicle -- the precariousness of the boy's situation was well-known months before his death.

As David Davidge, then the vice-principal of the boy's school, said yesterday, "Red flags were up, bells were ringing."

Mr. Davidge, who is now retired, was speaking of how things were in the spring of 1998.

It was then, on April 14, that Randal's Grade 1 teacher, Gloria Robson, had discovered dozens of welts, which she believed were whip marks, on the boy's arms.

Mrs. Robson promptly took Randal by the hand to Mr. Davidge's office.

Glamorgan Junior Public School was then undergoing renovation; Mr. Davidge's quarters consisted of a badly lit, windowless room.

There, he looked at the marks on Randal's arms.

He immediately called Mrs. Dooley, who told him the bruises came while Randal was playing, with some cousins whose names she didn't know, at a park she couldn't identify.

Still, Mr. Davidge was prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt and not call in the CAS (prompting, he said yesterday, a round of relieved "thank yous" from Mrs. Dooley) until Mrs. Robson objected. "No Dave," the teacher told him, "it's worse than that."

At her insistence, they went to the principal's office, which was better lit. They looked this time at Randal's back. Mr. Davidge realized, "I really have to phone the CAS."

He spoke to a woman named Michelle Pickett at the agency. "I explained the situation fully," Mr. Davidge said. "We're supposed to take direction from the CAS."

"What was the direction of the CAS?" prosecutor Sean Hickey asked.

"She said, 'I'll get back to you'," he said, and when Ms. Pickett did, about 15 minutes later, it was to say, "the CAS weren't getting involved now, the police had been called and were coming."

The police, in the form of the strapping former Toronto Constable Shaun Gillespie, did arrive.

Const. Gillespie was a distance away from the school.

By the time he arrived, Randal was nowhere to be found. Const. Gillespie interviewed Mr. Davidge, made note of reported "criss-cross welts" going from Randal's forearms, up over the shoulder and on to his back, and decided he was dealing with a "very, very serious incident."

The CAS involvement was discussed.

Const. Gillespie himself phoned Ms. Pickett at the CAS, presumably to co-ordinate the investigation.

After what Mr. Davidge told him, and that phone call, he said, he understood "the CAS was not going to be attending. I was notified it was a police matter, not a Children's Aid matter." Here, Const. Gillespie, who is now with the Ontario Provincial Police, looked to presiding judge Mr. Justice Eugene Ewaschuk.

"I was disappointed about that, I can tell you My Lord," he said.

Const. Gillespie looked for Randal around the school, then headed over to the family's nearby apartment. He banged fiercely on the door, but, though he could hear a television set blaring inside, no one answered.

Back at this station, he spoke to his staff sergeant and asked her to "assign some detectives as soon as she could." The jurors have already been told that two officers were assigned the next day, that they talked to Mrs. Dooley and were refused an opportunity to speak to Randal alone, and that no charges were laid, but the case was kept open.

Mr. Davidge said to his knowledge, nobody from the CAS ever did come to the school.

He and Mrs. Robson watched out for the little boy for the next two months, making sure there were no new injuries.

Mr. Davidge made sure to see Randal almost every day; this was a pleasure, he said, because Randal was a particular pet of his, "an exceptional little boy ... a lovely, delightful little boy" so friendly, with such "a marvellous sense of humour," he couldn't be ignored.

On Sept. 25, about six months later, the family having moved out of the area and Randal and his brother, Teego, having changed schools (though Randal, in fact, never made it to the new one), Mr. Davidge and Mrs. Robson learned that Randal was dead.

He had been found, with 14 broken ribs and a lacerated liver and pneumonia and evidence of four separate brain injuries, stiff in his eight-year-old brother's bunkbed.

Not quite two weeks later, Mr. Davidge said, he heard from the CAS.

"They called and gave me a series of questions which I found very odd," he said yesterday.

"This woman said, 'Did you expect us to come?' " after the school had reported the terrible marks on Randal.

A reasonable interpretation would appear to be that the agency, having learned of the boy's death, was attempting to discover if it might be in trouble for its lack of interest in him while he was alive, and was trying to get the lay of the land.

Randal Dooley could not have been more clearly in danger if he had been tied to a railway track with a freight train bearing down upon him.

But with a few exceptions -- Mrs. Robson, Mr. Davidge, and Const. Gillespie -- it appears the adults in authority who might have protected him stood about and asked one another, "Train? What train? I don't hear a train. Do you hear a train?"

March 31st, 2004, 10:30 AM
The one thing I will NOT tolerate is,when a parent is smacking the crap of a child in a shopping mall or on the street.That's where I step in.I refuse to not do anything.
Like I said,I will not tolerate this in any way.I step up.

March 31st, 2004, 10:36 AM
Luba, As you know I work full time, as does my hubby, why?,because we both want better things for ourselves and our children, if need be we could cut back and survive on one income, it would be tight but we could do it. But, we work and then we come home! We have no social life at all! Which is how we want it for now, until the kids are grown. I don't think people working has anything to do with it. It's what you do after and what your kids know you'll do. My kids know that if they were being jerks I would take an LOA from work or even quit and follow them from classroom to classroom if need be!
I know where my kids are and they know I'll track them down!
Nothing would stop me! I often feel like a pitbull myself because once I sink my teeth into something, there ain't no letting go!!!:D :D :D

March 31st, 2004, 10:45 AM
O.K. mona now your scaring me!!
Once when I was 8 months pregnant ( big as a house!!) a man in a parking lot grabbed his wife and was telling her" I told you to hurry up". Right away my big mouth opens and started walking towards the guy. My mother grabbed me and said " Get in the car, your pregnant for God's sake!". You see, she's used to my temper too!!:D
Many a times I've stepped up for kids too, and nothing is more gratifying when these people realize that they might have to deal with someone their own size!!
Like they say don't get between a bear and her cubs! When mothers hurt their own children, I feel just sick!

March 31st, 2004, 10:47 AM
I was editing my very long long long post when u guys posted lol

Someone is an 'individual' is responsible for what they do.

I for one am the biggest mixed bag of nuts there is!

March 31st, 2004, 10:57 AM
Done my friend...:D

But you know what I mean right?

((((HUGS)))) Chany...Didn't mean to scare you.

But what you did missy was not a smart move.You could have gotten hurt.Thank goodness your mom was with you.:D

That you are Miss Bag of Nuts.....:D :p

March 31st, 2004, 11:00 AM
See Luba, stories like the one you just posted PMO!!
Babies who should be able to go home and be safe from all the evil out there, only come home to experience it!!
What possible reason is there for people like this to exist? I am sitting here typing with tears falling because that child "was an exceptional little boy, delightful,had a marvellous sense of humor"with all that he was going through?
These people should never experience freedom again at the very least! And they should be sterilized!
I hope God is as truly vengeful as the bible says he is in the old testament!!!

March 31st, 2004, 11:12 AM
Tx Mona :D

I'm sorry I made you cry Chany

It was a long story and when it happened it devastated this community.

It was all at the same time I was going through the same ***** with CAS myself and every night I cry in bed wondering if one of these little angels I love so dearly will be the next.

This is reminding me to go to little Randal's grave and place a teddy and some food (since he got neither in real life) as well as a hug!

BTW let me tell you atleast if you live in Ontario if you have NO luck with CAS call the Office of the Child's Lawyer!!! They were the only ones who got RIGHT on top of the situation ...once I finally GOT to them that is! Kids were apprehended the NEXT day (but like I said mom got them back in 6mons)

Here is a picture of my god daughter in the princess costume I made her the halloween I saw her last.

I miss her so ooooo much!:(

March 31st, 2004, 11:23 AM
That's o.k. Luba, when it comes to kids or animals I'm a big suck!
Hopefully one day you'll see your godchildren again, and maybe with someone like you always praying for them, maybe they'll have a chance in life.
Oh and Luba take a copy of that poem you have about hurt kids for me for the poor baby.

March 31st, 2004, 11:41 AM
That is a GREAT idea Chany I will even laminate it and adhere it to a lawn stick ;) smart lady!

March 31st, 2004, 03:40 PM
Wow girls,you write some riveting posts....I remember little beautiful Randall,with the big smile and big brown eyes and also his big fat step-mother and father,it was very,very sad,nobody helped that little boy:(
Right now we have the horrendous case of little Farrah Khan,who's body parts were found in garbage-bags,all except her torso,abused,stomped on and eventually killed by her father..
the step-mother did nothing.We'll see what kind of jail-term they get:mad:
I think every woman,man or child is affected by this kind of violence against children and I agree the CAS are useless in many cases,it's all about money as with everything else.
I would not hesitate to step in if I witnessed any kind of abuse,be it to a child or an animal.
Once on vacation in Mexico,I was the only one who reacted when a man on a horse lassoed a little beagle,hog-tied and dragged him in the sand.
I am not patting myself on the back,but was stunned that everyone(tourists)were just watching while the dog was yelping in pain.I grabbed a coconut(:) )ran as fast as I could screaming and yelling,with good aim hit the idiot in the head with the coconut,stopped the horse and untied the poor dog.He was ok and ran off,but the rider had a sore head for a loong time.
After that,everyone on the beach were clapping,I did not appreciate their support,they were all a bunch of AH's for not doing a darn thing to help.
No one has the right to inflict pain or suffering on any living being and I'll be dammed if I would ever watch or know about it and do nothing,that will never happen,I am the biggest busy-body in the neighborhood
Luba,you seem to be a wonderful young lady and I hope you'll get to see your god-daughter again and that she and her siblings are ok.

March 31st, 2004, 03:42 PM
Still don't know what cooties are,but i don't think I have any:D

March 31st, 2004, 03:50 PM
((Hugs)) Anita thank u for that!!!

We all have to stand up and do things and get involved, like what you did in Mexico!!! It's the only way these idiots know someone is watching.

And little baby Khan she such a sweet angel. That was and is so devastating. I remember we took flowers and things to the park where she was found. It was an uncomfortable moment psychologically thinking of what happened to her.
What is even more tragic is that it all could have been prevented, as is most of the cases.

March 31st, 2004, 06:35 PM
Thanks everyone for the hugs and kind words.

This is one of those "don't get me started" threads.

To much abuse is going on in the US. Everyday the news is full of it., murders, kidnappings and abuse..etc.etc. The daily newspaper's front page resembles the Enquirer now. I moved away from south Florida where money is great and was my home for a long time to a much more 'rural' area. Peace of mind is worth much more to me. I have not locked my door in over 3 years. This means alot to me..of course everyone knows I have a Rotti behind that door but they do not HAVE to know she is the uber goober!
Laws have to change. The Hanson guy I have in prison now is serving life plus 17 years. He has to serve at least 25 years for the capital crime of rape of a minor under 12 yrs and the 17 yrs is added for sexual assault, (2 counts). He will be in his sixties when and if he gets out. He went in as a 25 year old married man and father of a 2 year old daughter. (My daughter was the babysitter) His son was born during the two week trial in 1986.
More victims...his children. We got a good conviction.
My family was offered a "victims compensation", a new Florida support at the time, we signed off our rights giving the money to his children in a trust fund. It was the right thing to do and was my daughters idea.
His wife divorced him after the trial. She did not do it before so she could not be called as a witness. I understand her reasons.

'nuf said. You folks are great.

Thanks again for the hugs and lets protect our kids and four legged kids and hold them all tight.
Quietly Making Noise.....fight for what you believe in.

March 31st, 2004, 06:51 PM
Karin, you must have a wonderful job raising your daughter, to have survived that and still be strong:) .
But for you guys to think of his children, well I can't think of how to word it, except I hope there are more human beings of your caliber in this world!!
You guys are truly inspiring and thanks for sharing your story.
May God bless your entire family, but I think he may already have


March 31st, 2004, 06:55 PM
Thank you for sharing that Karin

Very wise and humble choice you and your family made regarding compensation for his children. Yes they too are victims of what this monster did to your daughter.

Strength in numbers and in knowledge!!

March 31st, 2004, 10:11 PM
Again I try to type a response and it comes out in somewhat the form of Jello, if you can picture Jello on your screen right now. Mush factor large.

My daughter Stephanie deserves any and all credit.

No more talk about this, focus on others who need it, we're burning daylight here!

(((Hugs))) back attcha!

April 1st, 2004, 07:39 AM

They just found another body.

It was of a young boy who went missing in December.

He was found North of Orangeville....He went missing from Mississauga.

I just caught the tail end of it on the news...

This is just heart breaking.:( :( :(

April 1st, 2004, 08:28 AM
Mona_b, if you hear any more, let us know.K?

April 1st, 2004, 08:39 AM
Yes I heard this on the news late last night.

He was 15 and was reported missing in December. Funny how nobody takes 'teens' seriously huh! They all have to be runaways so they never bother making a big deal about it until the kids dead!!


April 1st, 2004, 09:05 AM
I know Luba..

It seems that not much is ever said about the teens.

I never even heard anything about him missing.There were never any updates.Nothing.No searches.

Chany,not much has been said.All they said id he never returned home from school.That's all that has been said.I'm sure they will say more later on.He was found in a dumpsite in Orangeville.That's all I know for now.

But anymore news and I'm sure Luba or I will keep posting.

April 1st, 2004, 12:42 PM
Here is the full story thus far peoples:

For already over burdened Peel Police Homicide detectives, it's another blow. For the community, it's frightening. But for the family and friends of Rene Charlesbois, it's the end of their hope.

The 15-year-old Mississauga student has been found dead, his body discarded in a landfill in Mono Mills Township near Orangeville. His remains were so badly decomposed, dental records had to be used to confirm his identity.

And in a city already reeling from the death of Cecilia Zhang, it's another stop on a long trail of tragedy.

Charlesbois was last seen leaving Meadowvale Secondary School after classes let out for the day on December 12th.

By 9pm, his frantic parents called police, who put out a description of the missing boy. But for three long months, there was only silence.

That ended with the discovery of his remains March 19th. His clothes were found haphazardly strewn en route to the dump.

And while it's unclear how long he'd been there or who committed this latest outrage, police are looking at the youngster's habit of logging into Internet chat rooms as a possible clue.

They're checking his computer to see who he was in contact with, and are looking at the school’s P.C.s to see if he made any contacts there.

“We know that he was a frequent MSN chat line user and that … he was also a frequent cell phone user. And that stopped the day he went missing,” confirms P.C. Wendy Sims. “That is an avenue that we are certainly exploring.”

It’s an avenue that starts in a landfill far from home, and police hope it eventually leads to his killer.

If you have any information about what happened to Rene or saw him as he left school for the last time, call (905) 453-3311.

My two.5 cents
They're checking his computer to see who he was in contact with, and are looking at the school’s P.C.s to see if he made any contacts there.
WTH?????? Checking his computer NOW why not in DECEMBER
the child could have be saved!!!

This makes me so mad
If he was preyed upon and what should have been done wasn't done to prevent this!!! Pycho's know it too dont' they, they know that the police don't take missing teens serious enuf so they prey on those ones...vulnerable. IT will be ages until someone actually thinks of looking for him, then when they find him they actually decide to do an investigation


April 1st, 2004, 12:47 PM
More info from

Three months after a fifteen-year-old Toronto was reported missing, police have opened a murder probe into his case. Police say Rene Charlebois' body was discovered in a landfill site outside the city almost two weeks ago.

The teen was last seen leaving Meadowvale Secondary School at the end of the day on December 12. Police were contacted when he failed to return home by 9 p.m. that night.

Now, Peel Regional Police say dental records have confirmed the boy's identity, and that foul play was a factor in his death.

Constable Kathy Gagnon told reporters that it is likely he has been dead "for a little while," because it "took some time for him to be identified."

A frequent Internet-chat participant, Charlebois' online appearances ceased with his disappearance.

Investigators would not confirm, however, whether he died as a result of meeting someone he spoke to on-line or whether arrests are imminent. Nor will they reveal what led them to the Town of Mono landfill, about 50 kilometres northwest of Toronto.

Two other Mississauga area teens are also missing -- one of whose cars was found not far from the landfill site.


I was in shock because I just wanted my son to come home. I didn't believe it was him," said his mother, Jaitoon Baksh yesterday. "This is the kind of pain no parent would want to bear."

Baksh described her son as a "very caring, friendly and happy boy."

Police found Charlebois' body in a public landfill two weeks ago.

April 1st, 2004, 02:50 PM
So, NOW are they taking the other missing teens disappearance more seriously?? :mad: :mad:

April 1st, 2004, 03:45 PM
Luba,yesterday was the first time I heard of this missing boy and I read the paper religiously every morning and watch the news and you say there are two more missing?
What's the problem,does the police think that because they are boys and teenagers it won't matter too much?
Something is wrong would hurt as much no matter what age or gender they are:mad:
I still remember Kristen French and the Mahaffy girl when they went missing and the police screwup...
At the time I drove a Camaro and had to bring it in to be searched,since they believed the abductors car was a Camaro.
It was to me the most horrific case and I still shudder to think Karla Homolka will soon be out of prison,her hubby(I don't know how I could,but I forgot his name,old age?)will hopefully rot in jail.

April 1st, 2004, 04:01 PM
As for chat-rooms,everyone in my family have been affected by them.My ex-daughter-in-law had an affair with a man she fell in love with in a chat-room,which led to divorce from my oldest son.
My other son fell in love with a lady in Alberta ten yrs his senior in a chat-room,she is a wonderful woman and he's lived with her in Alberta for five yrs now and they are still very much in love.My youngest son too was influenced by a girl in California,unbeknownst to me(he lived on his own)he sold everything he had,took a BUS(a three day trip),called me from Chicago to say good-bye..
It did not work out well,the girl was married and her and her husband wanted to have some fun,no need to get into details
:mad: My son eventually was able to escape in the middle of night and took a bus back home,with only the clothes on his back.
I knew nothing of what was going on,since the girl wrote me e-mails in my sons name and said everything was wonderful.I think he was lucky to escape with his life and hopefully has learned a lesson.Chat-rooms can be very dangerous to a gullible innocent person.

doggy lover
April 1st, 2004, 04:53 PM
As I sit and read your thoughts I cry, there must be no pain greater than loosing a child. In the last few months I have lost my dog Travis, my grandmother and on Tuesday our cat ran away but none of these match up to how I would feel about losing one of my children. I helped a friend through losing a baby that died at easter time 11 years ago, it is soon comming up on his birthday and I shall shed a tear for him too. I am glad they found her though at least there is closure for the family, I would die not knowing what happend to my child do you hope that it is alive, or prey that if it is in pain that it is dead. I work in a nursing home and deal with death all the time but nothing can prepare you for losing a child, rest in peace beautiful child of god. My hearts goes out to the parents.

April 1st, 2004, 05:39 PM
Anita WOW thats a lot of influence the net has had on your family. I know of stories like that as well, some pretty bad ones.

I never heard of these missing boys until last night, so I too am wondering why?? Like I said it is probably age discrimination. They are teens and therefore MUST have run away.

Well ya know what, even if they did darnit FIND The boy!! He is a BOY and needs protection, whether from his family or from any strange'rs that he meets up with or comes across.

This has really really put me in one of those 'moods' today, I guess with the rain too, it's somber and I feel so horrible that this young boy lay in a landfill. YET for 2 weeks after he was found we didn't hear about the death??? Come on they can't (and I know factually) blame forensics on that!! Forensics just as in Cecilia's case can determine within hours the identity of a person. Hey if even they needed dental records I'll give'm the bene of the doubt and say 72 hours. BUT I can't believe the rest, it's all hog wash. My gut tells me something is fishy fishy!!!

Doglover ((HUGS)) to you for you very very difficult times with your losses.

There is a virtual pet cemetery on here that you may like to pay tribute to your beautiful dog with a verse, explanation of his life and a picture. It helped me :D I hope it helps you a little too.

I am in Scarborough as well!! Nice to have you on the board!
(hugs again)

btw I haven't seen any pictures of the other missing boys posted ANYWHERE even NOW?? Have any of you????
Though I missed the six pm news tonight.

April 1st, 2004, 05:42 PM
I have a big pet peeve....when these sicko's that torture & murder children or anyone for that matter are called "animals", this is an insult. "Animals do not do this. Even the eating machine, uncaring sharks do not torture, dismember,rape and kill their prey for the mere thrill of the act.
These people, and I hate to call them that, need a better name for what they do.

Some people should never be allowed to reproduce.

April 1st, 2004, 05:43 PM
I think thats why we got so worked up over this. It's absolutely the worst fear any parent has. And it just seems to be getting worse... Although sometimes I wonder is it getting worse or is it just that now you hear of everything from everywhere. The news, papers,and now the internet.

April 1st, 2004, 06:10 PM
I think it is a combination of events...internet, TV, ( 30 years ago you would never see a toilet on TV..look what they show now..primetime) and population....the more the population grows..odds are there will be more "defective" humans.
I hate to bring this up...but I will.
Jeffery Dahmer
William Gacy
Ted Bundy
Gene Giles
Danny Rollings
Susan Smith

..just a few. If everyone can be more observant then maybe, just maybe we will have more Elizabeth Smart stories to read about.

We now have the Amber Alert in place and is working very well.

April 1st, 2004, 06:23 PM
Karin, I agree with you totally but the tops of my list are
Diane Downs,Susan Smith and Andrea Yates. Because these were mothers!! Maybe I'm being discriminating but as women, we carry these lives in our wombs, nourish them, love them and send them on their way but always with the knowledge that no matter what we'll be there for them.
The first 2 women killed their children for what reason: a man, a man because they didn't want kids and the third woman was obviously just plain nuts. But to chase down your child, and to drown all of them... Well I just think these women are the worst example of human beings yet but thats just my opinion.

April 1st, 2004, 06:28 PM
AMEN ladies AMEN!!!

Amber alert only works when they release it in time...sometime they wait hours and hours the it's too late.... :(

April 1st, 2004, 06:33 PM
Chany,growing up in the 50's-60's,I actually think people were less violent,,sure there was less media,but we still had newspapers,TV and radio.The most violent movie I saw as a child was "Tarzan":D
Life was calmer at least from my point,not too much stress,we still had bullies in school,but they did not come with knives and guns.
My mother did not worry about me,the way I would worry if I had a young child today.
I'd never heard of drugs,we drank coke at our parties,the worst thing we could do was take a puff off a cigarette...but I grew up in Sweden,maybe things were different here.
But then again,I was pregnant at 17yrs,but it all worked out well:D
And Karin you are right,calling evil minds"animals"is an incredible injustice!!!The cruellest animal is the human animal

April 1st, 2004, 06:56 PM
I must also add Laci Peterson to that partial list.

Gods Speed Laci & Conner.

There are so many.....I am still learning to navigate this board and I know this is a pets forum...but I saw somewhere a request for a seperate conference on this subject. Is this a possibilty?

April 1st, 2004, 07:04 PM
Uh Karin the women I was talking about killed their children..
Wasn't Laci killed or has something new developed. I would love to find a chat room like that too.. Just to vent...;) If you ever find one let us know...

April 1st, 2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Chany
Uh Karin the women I was talking about killed their children..
Wasn't Laci killed or has something new developed. I would love to find a chat room like that too.. Just to vent...;) If you ever find one let us know...

I know Chany. I have a hard time fathoming a mother killing her own children. Or a father killing his pregnant wife.

I thought I read somewhere on this board a request for a topic on this subject.

Scott Peterson is being held for the murder of Laci & Conner. New legistration handed down today will make (if passed) the murder of a pregnant woman a double homicide. Laci was over 8 months pregnant and Conner would have survived.
It will be one year ago this month that Conner and his mother surfaced in San Francisco Bay.
I am getting worked up now.
Someone please tell me how far the human race has evolved over these centuries and are better for it..

doggy lover
April 1st, 2004, 07:56 PM
:p Luba thanks for the hugs and Travis is in the cemetary if you care to look. But like I said this is nothing like losing a child due to some cold blooded killer that should be put to death painfully. Just my view. The more pain for them the better I say.

April 1st, 2004, 09:00 PM
Travis is beautiful!! I loved your tribute (hugs again)

April 13th, 2004, 07:45 PM
Incase nobody heard on the news.... regarding the two other young men missing. Well, a sex offender has comitted suicide he was suspect #1. They arrested and released on bail a 14 yr old today who conspired after the fact of murder and of disposing of two bodies in Quebec of these young men.

They have found the torso of one of the poor boys and are presently searching for the other.

Apparently they found remains in Quebec in the fall but are just releasing the information NOW??

The father of one of the boys did a tv interview with some press, expressing how angered he is. The police had and did know more, enough to maybe protect victims or atleast find the body of his son sooner so they could end their suffering. HE wants to go himself to search for his sons remains. It was heartbreaking, just heartbreaking.

A 14 yr old?? Conspiring after the fact, isnt' that lovely. And to boot they let him out on bail. GREAT STUFF~!

April 13th, 2004, 09:44 PM
Mr Moore and I call him that lightly,had a history of sexually abusing children and yet he was out on the streets,in the US he would have been looked up long ago and for a long time and the lives of these three young men would have been saved.
The remains of the one young man was found three days after they disappeard in november and the parents just found out last week,no wonder they are furious on top of their grief
It disgusts me the way we protect the criminal and endanger children by letting pedophiles,who cannot be rehabilitated,even work with children,like Moore did..