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Where do I start Part 2

Winston
February 13th, 2007, 06:10 PM
Hello again

Since I am taking the stand on my dog food being garbage I have decided to make the same effort with my 2 beautiful babies! Tabitha & Bomber.

Yes, they are also on vet prescribed food.Hills CD Prescription Diet..This is due to my male cat having a urinary infection a few years ago...they both only had 1 illness and thats what it was..they told me it would prevent crystals in the male and would not hurt the female to eat it as well...I also feed them a little bit of Hills TD (tarter / dental) once in awhile..it is like a treat for them??

My babies will be 10 years old in April 2007..

Here is the Hills CD Diet

Brewers Rice, chicken by-product meal, corn, gluten meal, pork fat, chicken liver flavor, potassium chloride, choline chloride, calcium carbonate, calcium, sulfate, odized salt, citamin e supplement, vitamins etc etc etc..

crude protein min 30%
crude fat min 13%
crude fiber min 1%
moisture max 10%
ash max 6.5%
calcium min 0.5%
phospherous min 0.4 %
magnesium max 0.08%
taurine min 0.1%

So the question is what do I need to look at with this food?

Cindy

P.S I couldn't resist posting another pic of my babies! Tabitha is in the front (grey) and Bomber is in the back...

rainbow
February 13th, 2007, 06:45 PM
Pictures aren't appearing for me. :sad:

The Hill's cat food is crap. I feed mine Innova but Felidae is a great choice and a bit cheaper in price. I would feed it but it's not available in my area.

heidiho
February 13th, 2007, 06:52 PM
What beautiful cats you have.I feed my kitty Wellness and Soild gold ..I think the corn is bad,cant remember what else.

rainbow
February 13th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Ahh, the pics are there now....they are gorgeous. :lovestruck:

Scott_B
February 13th, 2007, 10:11 PM
Brewers Rice, chicken by-product meal, corn, gluten meal

All that is crap. :yuck:

Felidae or Innova Evo get my vote for cat foods.

technodoll
February 13th, 2007, 10:25 PM
i agree with the others... cats are obligate carnivores, they need meat not rice leftovers and meat byproducts, certainly NOT corn or corn byproducts :yuck: you are basically paying for a bag of industry waste, stuff not fit for human consumption. :eek:

look for foods that contain whole human-grade (identified) meat meals, little or no grains, no fillers or byproducts, no corn, soy, wheat, no artificials colors or cancerous preservatives such as BHA and BHT, etc. good luck!

Prin
February 14th, 2007, 02:42 AM
I agree with the above. Also when they say "crude protein", it doesn't consider how much of the protein is actually digested. A ball of hair is 100% crude protein, but is 0% digestible. ;)

If you want to give them a treat, try Merrick canned food or Innova canned... You know, tasty but healthy too. :)

gypsy_girl
February 14th, 2007, 11:31 AM
Finding a food that produces an acidic urine is very important in this case. This will then give you the struvite prevention. A high meat diet does this, as do many kibble on the market.
SOme good Canadian brands are GO! Natural, Holsitic Blend, Acana or Orijen.
Please do your due diliegence, and ask the manufacturer what urine PH i s produced by these foods. You should be somewhere around 6.4-6.6
As well this diet is restricted magnesium, and the "regular" foods oout there are not "restricted". This may or may not play a role, as recent research suggests that the magnesium level can be through the roof, as long as you are producing a 6.4-6.6.
Increasing fluid intake, exercise and a clean litter box make a world of difference.
I would also monitor the acidity by picking up PH test strips, Solid Gold has them available in stores, and I think you can get them at some pharmacies too!
Good luck!:2cents:

mona_b
February 14th, 2007, 11:42 AM
Beautiful babies you have there....:thumbs up

I have to agree about the food.Not a good one.

By any chance do you feed him canned?I have fed all my neutered cats canned.And none have them have ever had issues with crystals.Mine get both the canned and dry.As for the dry,the are on Performatin Ultra Holistic.

I have been told that crystals are caused by not enough water getting into them.Canned has the water they need.Especially if they don't drink that much water.:)

Winston
February 14th, 2007, 12:57 PM
Mona I do not feed canned food at all...I was told 10 years ago by the vet that I should only give them kibble as it will prevent them from having bad teeth, soft stools, and urinary infections....etc etc. They dont miss what they have not had either??

I think the times are changing because quite a few people have indicated that their vets specifically told them to eat the canned food as it provides more moisture in the diet??

I have to wonder how many other people are out there like me that dont have a clue what they are really feeding their animals?? because they trust the vet!

Cindy

Stacer
February 14th, 2007, 01:17 PM
I just did the switcheroo too, but I thought I was feeding them a good food (California Natural) but it facilitated my boy getting FLUTD. So we went on the Hill's diet for a while as per vet's intructions (although I made it clear, that when the bag was done that was it, he would not remain on it). I've made the switch to GO! Natural and they love it, so far so good.

Gypsy girl, how do you test with the pH strips? Do you just stick it in fresh pee in the litterbox? I should really do this to make sure he's still doing good.

gypsy_girl
February 14th, 2007, 03:49 PM
For using PH strips, you need to test urine that is coming directly from the cat, preferably midstream (I know, how fun is that????) There is a new litter out that changes color to match the color of the PH, I can find out what it is called, but you may need to do some research on how WELL it works.

rainbow
February 14th, 2007, 07:01 PM
I think that's a good idea....I hope it works well.

Winston
February 21st, 2007, 01:46 PM
Well I have chosen a new food for my 2 cats.....What does everyone think of this food compared to the Hills CD Diet from the vet's......

Cindy


Wysong Uretic Food

Chicken, Chicken Giblets, Ground Oat Groats, Fish Oil, Salt, Dried Whey, DL*-Methionine, Taurine, L-Lysine, Eggs, Plums, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols as a source of vitamin E), Ground Wheat, Dried Wheat Grass Powder, Dried Barley Grass Powder, Whey, Dried Yogurt, Lecithin, Citric Acid, Sage Extract, Rosemary Extract, Dried Kelp, Garlic, Black Pepper, Artichoke, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Yeast Culture, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, lron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manga*nese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Protein*ate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.

Analysis: Protein 32%, Fat 15%, Fiber 4%, Moisture 12%

TeriM
February 21st, 2007, 02:51 PM
The amount of salt in that concerns me.

technodoll
February 21st, 2007, 03:27 PM
Chicken, Chicken Giblets, Ground Oat Groats, Fish Oil, Salt, Dried Whey, DL*-Methionine, Taurine, L-Lysine, Eggs, Plums, Poultry Fat

the bulk of any dry kibble is made up with the ingredients found up the the 1st source of fat. The chicken (and chicken giblets) being in wet form, will lost up to 75% of its weight once cooked, dehydrated and processed so that is misleading, chicken is actually at the bottom of the indredients list... so what you have is a food made mostly with oat groats, fish oil (what kind of fish?), SALT.... :yuck: not a diet fit for an obligate carnivore (ie cat), IMO.

do you have any other foods you can choose from? this one is pretty terrible, sorry :o

meb999
February 21st, 2007, 03:41 PM
also 'poultry fat' is any bird fat they get their hands on, or whatever is swept off the butcher's floor! You want to stay away from any food that list non-specific foods (animal meat, fish meat, poultry meat, etc...)

I also like Felidae ... look at the ingredients :
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat, (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Eggs, Flax Seed Meal, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Linoleic Acid, Amaranth, DL Methionine, Taurine, Kelp, Cranberries, Apples, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory Root), Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.


there's no mystery meat, no by-products, two meat-meals before the first grain (so it has a high meat content)....

Winston
February 21st, 2007, 04:15 PM
Thank you everyone! I have not fed this to my cats yet...I am also able to return it. I just went out looking and bought this one! I still feel like I have no clue what I am looking for?? But I guess I really have to learn about all the ingrediants...I really am not worried too much about the price just yet! I mean I want to buy a good quality food for them...They do have Felidae, Natural Balance, Performatrim (i think that is the store brand?) techni cal, holistic, etc..these stand out in my mind....I just want to make sure that I dont create unrinary / crystal problems...for them.

I have found it hard to find a food with lots of meat and say no corn? It seems to be either rice or corn or oats?

In the Hills diet it appeared that they really were only getting chicken by product?? so should I keep the new food as a chicken based food?

Cindy

gypsy_girl
February 21st, 2007, 06:13 PM
FInd a food that uses human grade ingredients, and a species specific meal as a 1st protein source ie Chicken meal, duck meal etc, perhaps as the second ingredient another meat or meal. THEN e-mail or call the manufacturer to ask them what urine PH is produced by the food ( I use GO! and it is 6.4)
Make sure it is naturally preserved, these three things IMO are the most important. Canadian is good too :)

Winston
March 10th, 2007, 01:41 PM
Hello ...had to change the food once again..My 2 cats would not eat it...So I have bought the Performatrin Ultra Holistic Food..the ingrediants are :

Chicken
Chicken Meal
Whole Brown Rice
Dried Egg Product
Whole Barley
Whole Rice
Sunflower Oil stabilized with mixed Tocopherols (a natural source of Vitamin E)
Oatmeal
Salmon Meal
Whole Flaxseed
Alfalfa Meal
Brewers Yeast
Whole Cranberries
Fresh Whole Sweet Potatoes
Peas
Fresh Whole Carrots
Whole Blueberries
Kelp
Potassium Chloride
Sea Salt
Spinach
Fresh Whole Apples
DL-Methionine
Taurine
Chicory Root Extract (Prebiotic)
Mannanoligosaccharides
Lecithin
Lactobacillus Acidophilus (Probiotic)
Bacillus Subtilis (Probiotic)
Bifidobacterium Thermophilum (Probiotic)
Bifidobacterium Longum (Probiotic)
Enterococcus Faecium (Probiotic)
Spirulina
Yucca Schidigera Extract
Choline Chloride
Zinc Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Zinc)
Iron Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Iron)
Vitamin E Supplement
Rosemary
Manganese Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Manganese)
Basil
Sage
Copper Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Copper)
Dandelion
Niacin
Vitamin B12 Supplement
Vitamin A Supplement
Calcium Ascorbate
Calcium Pantothenate
Thiamine Hydrochloride
Riboflavin
Cobalt Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Cobalt)
Vitamin D3 Supplement
Folic Acid
Biotin
Pyridoxine Hydrochloride
Potassium Iodide
Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity)
Sodium Selenite


Hopefully they will like this one!

Cindy

Scott_B
March 11th, 2007, 07:01 AM
Sorry, not the best of kibbles. :o

Winston
March 11th, 2007, 10:38 AM
Scott..what am I missing here?

The Felidae had these ingrediants first:

Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat,

The Performatrin Ultra Holistic has:

Chicken,Chicken Meal,Whole Brown Rice,Dried Egg Product,Whole Barley,Whole Rice, Sunflower Oil stabilized with mixed Tocopherols (a natural source of Vitamin E),Oatmeal,Salmon Meal,Whole Flaxseed,Alfalfa Meal etc etc..

It has the 2 meats before the grains?

Scott_B
March 11th, 2007, 10:43 AM
Its not the meat..its the "other stuff", ie Dried Egg Product, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex. :yuck:

The medadione along would make me avoid this food. Its got a lot of egg product. If it was whole eggs, great, but egg product is pretty much anything. :o

Also, sunflower oil..not keen on it. chicken fat would be better.



Scott..what am I missing here?

The Felidae had these ingrediants first:

Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat,

The Performatrin Ultra Holistic has:

Chicken,Chicken Meal,Whole Brown Rice,Dried Egg Product,Whole Barley,Whole Rice, Sunflower Oil stabilized with mixed Tocopherols (a natural source of Vitamin E),Oatmeal,Salmon Meal,Whole Flaxseed,Alfalfa Meal etc etc..

It has the 2 meats before the grains?

Winston
March 11th, 2007, 07:17 PM
Wow I never thought there was so much to know about the food we give our pets? Back to the beginning!

Cindy

Prin
March 12th, 2007, 03:13 AM
Yeah, I agree.. It's not the worst food. But menadione is a synthetic vitamin K banned for human consumption.:o Egg product is not fit for humans... It's just not as good as the felidae..:o

chico2
March 12th, 2007, 09:02 AM
Winston,your cats are stunning:lovestruck:
If they have a reoccuring problem with crystals,I would definetly feed them canned as their main meal twice a day and dry for snacking.
My cats all drink plenty of water,but I still add a little warm water to their canned food...as for dry food,I often switch,for the moment they like Solid Gold and they've done well on Chicken-Soup-for-cat-lovers-soul.
They did not like Wellness or Felidae,cats can snub food like no other animal:frustrated:
I am taking both my Rocky and Vinnie to the vet Wednesday and I am sure my vet will try to push Hills on Vinnie,who has gotten a bit chunky..maybe it has it's place with sick animals,I don't know,but I will not buy this over-priced junkfood.
I now refuse Vinnie any tablescraps,it's really difficult,he has a way of begging,like a drooling doggie:D but I am sure he'll loose some weight if all he eats is catfood:fingerscr

Winston
March 12th, 2007, 10:09 AM
Chico,

They have only had 1 bout of Unrinary Infections and orgionally I was feeding them the Hills CD as more of a preventative. I have to say I have been very fortunate with my 2 little babies! They have had really no health issues to speak of other than a tapeworm when I first got them?? This food issue has really go me stumped! I did not realise how much their is to know! They really dont like the Felidae! wouldn't even touch it!

Hmmm?????

Cindy

Scott_B
March 12th, 2007, 10:15 AM
Can you get Innova Evo?

Winston
March 12th, 2007, 10:31 AM
Scott I checked on line and it is through Ryans Pet Food Store..I am pretty sure there is a Ryans near by? Do I just go with Innova EVO?

Cindy

P.S My family is from Spring Hill Nova Scotia...is that anywhere near you?

x.l.r.8
March 12th, 2007, 11:02 AM
It's fun isn't it, just because you find the perfect food, your pet might not think so:yell: Mine snubbed EVO and Felidae, however we went to a local seminar held by Holistic Blend at Loblaws and they were giving out free samples. The cats loved it, not what I want them to eat but they snub canned (merricks, SG, Innova, Felaide) and the same in kibble.
The rule of thumb seems to be, if you don't know what it is, don't feed it. For eg 'dried egg product', tell me do you really know what that is? what part of the egg? if it was a good part they would advertise the fact. The good foods are as shrewd as the bad ones, if they have added something that is better than the competition, they will list it, even if it's not digestable.
The bulk of the meal should, in my mind anyhow, be in meal form from identified animals, the rice should be identified as whole and as you go down the list look for products that are in their whole form, not bits that may or may not have been left over from the food industry. Tomatoe pommace, fiber or filler?, why not whole tomatoe, dried egg product, why not whole egg. You may not achieve what you want but you can come pretty close.
When you are compairing ingredient list try not to compair it with what you are already giving, anything will look better (and probably is). But most of all make sure your cats will eat it. Good luck :thumbs up your on the right road.

Scott_B
March 12th, 2007, 12:52 PM
Id call to make sure they have it. Maybe what you could do, take atrip to the store, & write down all the brands they carry. Then we can tell ya whats best. Innova Evo is a great food. Out of my three cats, one wouldnt eat the felidae. but all three love the Evo.

Winston
March 13th, 2007, 06:24 AM
Okay ...I made the trip to the store that sells Innova Evo and I can only get it at 1 location in the city...Not really a huge problem just not quick to get too!

Scott you probably think I am not too bright ! But I think it is just information overload! I walk into the store and there are a million kinds of food....you think you have found something and wow! there is something else not good about it!! Anyway here are some of the brands that they carry
-Innova EVO (another store)
-Orijen
-Timberwolf
-Merrrick
-Go Natural
-Natural Balance
-Chicken Soup for the Pet Lovers Soul
-Royal Canine
-Wysong
-Solid Gold
-Prairie ?????
I am sure there are more...I was leaning towards a chicken base only because that is what was in the Hills CD garbage! but with my cats I really have not tried another flavor..

They are 10 years old (brother & sister) and very healthy so far!

Thanks
Cindy

chico2
March 13th, 2007, 07:45 AM
Winston,to be totally honest,I would not fret about it so much.
You have 2 healthy beautiful cats,you must have done something right:)
My 3 are healthy too,except for Rockys Hyperthyroidism and they have eaten all kinds of foods over the years.
You are right,looking at all the foods can be overwhelming:confused:
What is most important,is buying something your cats will eat,definet no,no's are Purina,Iams anything bought in a grocerystore.
Otherwise,if you are lucky to find something the cats really like(try to get samples!)stick with it.
My cats can eagerly gulp down,loving something one week,but the next won't touch it,but that's what cats do:laughing:
It's been suggested here,Chicken-Soup is not THE best,but my cats like it and the ingredients are ok...no corn!! They also like Solid Gold+canned food.
A friend of mine has 5 cats,2 19 yr olds and 3 between 7-15 yrs old,feeds then Miss Meiw(sp?) and other stuffs from Walmart,but I don't even try to convince him to buy something better,his 5 indoor cats are doing great.
Not that I would ever recommend what he's feeding his cats to anyone:yuck: but what's good for some cats,would not be good for others.

Scott_B
March 13th, 2007, 09:52 AM
ohhh, id try the ORIJEN if ya can! Looks great!

Winston
March 13th, 2007, 11:03 AM
Scott..looking at the ingrediants it shows whole eggs? I guess it is the dried eggs in the previous food you did not like?

Cindy

Scott_B
March 13th, 2007, 03:02 PM
Its all in the wording. Whole eggs are just that, whole eggs. So you know they're geting all the nutrition from the whole egg.

Dried Egg Product is something different. Its whatever they get their hands on. :yuck:

Winston
March 13th, 2007, 04:30 PM
Scott you have replied on some of my posts regarding my boy Winston's food change as well...He is eating DVP Duck & Potato..I am giving him the Eaglepack Digestive Enzyme...but wondering if the Orijen Dog Food might work for him as well as the cats? I am due to buy more food for him very soon? I am not completely happy with the food as of yet so what are your thoughts on that?

Cindy

Prin
March 13th, 2007, 05:16 PM
Orijen looks great.:) Of your list, these are the best brands, but even with a brand there's variation...
-Innova AND Innova EVO (the regular innova is great too)
-Orijen
-Timberwolf
-Natural Balance (great for allergies, but a little low protein)
-Merrrick (a little grainy)
-Solid Gold (grainy... except for grain free Barking at the Moon)
-Chicken Soup for the Pet Lovers Soul (they've gotten better recently)
-Go Natural (grainy)

Canidae is great too... :o


For kitties, if you want the best out there, it's either Evo, Orijen or Felidae. The rest are lacking somehow, IMO.:o

Scott_B
March 13th, 2007, 06:26 PM
Pretty much summed it up Prin :thumbs up

Winston
March 19th, 2007, 07:55 AM
Well, I decided on Orijen for both the dog & cats! So far all seem to like it! The cats stools are a bit softer than normal but I think they still need more time to adjust! As for Winston I noticed that his appetite has increased! He normally eats 4 cups per day, but this is day 3 and he is asking for more food each time. I have given in and given him an extra 1/2 cup to 1 cup more! His first BM of the day has been good but by the 2nd one! it is runny!

I have been adding the digestive enzyme to the food! Should I continue to do that for him?

Cindy

P.S I guess the Orijen has become popular because the pet store said that it has been flying off the shelves and that they cant keep enough of it in!

Emmalou
March 19th, 2007, 09:06 AM
Do any of you know how Orijen is processed? Is it extruded or baked? I only ask because their website says their foods include 70% meat and I thought that was not possible with extruded food. The ingredients look great though!

Scott_B
March 19th, 2007, 09:22 AM
This is all i coiuld find

"ORIJEN ingredients are low
temperature cooked at 90C for 3 5
minutes substantially lower temperature
and less time than what most people would
cook their dinner."

gypsy_girl
March 19th, 2007, 02:01 PM
Orijen is extruded. The difficulty in extruding high meat has more to do with the quantity of meal that meat, due to the moisture restrictions. IE Timberwolfs food

Prin
March 19th, 2007, 04:05 PM
Winston, with holistic foods that don't have stool hardeners, the stool can get really soft if you overfeed... Even if he pretends he's hungry, don't overfeed him.:o He should actually eat less of this food than most of the other foods he's eaten so far.

gypsy_girl
March 19th, 2007, 10:00 PM
My experience has been that even when you don't overfeed you sometimes still get runny stools on the no grains food that doesn;t have some fiber like apple or tomato pomace or pumpkin. Usually I find adding the pumpkin works, but if you are using then Eagle Pack Solution it has fiber in the form of inulin, so I am not sure why you would be getting loose stools, except for three reasons:
overfeeding, an intollerance, or not enough fiber. Even though "fiber" in and of itself is not considered neccesary, for some dogs on grain free they do have looser stools, even with reducing.