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sudden agressiveness -- he scared me

meb999
February 6th, 2007, 09:44 PM
ok, so alot of people know that Buster (3 year old Boxer) has dog agression issues. He's never bitten a dog, but has started his fair share of fights. I just avoid contact with other dogs.

But tonight was the first time he's ever shown agression towards a human. I'm trembling, I can't stop shaking, he scared me so bad....

Every now and then, when it's this cold out or when there's a snow storm I let Buster off leash at the park because there aren'T any other dogs around and it gives him a chance to really run around and burn some energy.

People walk by and it's never even made him blink.

So tonight we'Re playing in the park (while I'm keeping an eye out to make sure there aren't any dogs), and as usual people are walking by and Buster is paying no mind.

Until some guy comes running towards us. Buster freaks out and runs toward him barking. He's barked at people before but usually the second I say : 'it's ok' he stops and goes into play-mode. Tonight he was snarling and barking at the guy even after I said ok. So I'm holding him by the collar about to put his leash on when the guy reachs us and says :your dog is handsome' and reaches down to pet him. Buster jumped, he didn'T bite, but I honestly think he was going to.

The guy immediatetly runs off...Buster, wanting to chase him, turns around and bites my hand that was holding his collar (he didn'T bite my hand, but rather pulled off my glove) and started chasing the guy barking. I caught him before he even got close to this guy again.

Is he becoming agressive towards humans? I'm terrified....I was 'calm and assertive' but now that we're home I'm a mess....

Was this a one-time thing? Don't worry -- he'll NEVER be off leash again.

jiorji
February 6th, 2007, 09:47 PM
oh my goodnes Meb...sorry you had to go through that :sad: I hope this was a one time thing:fingerscr

Byrd
February 6th, 2007, 09:52 PM
Perhaps he sensed something bad about the man. :shrug:

I know that there are certain people that Willow doesn't like, and my Wolf was like that too. There just seems to be a vibe they get from certain people, or perhaps it was just the way the man ran up, maybe he thought the man would hurt you and went into protection mode. :fingerscr

brandynva
February 6th, 2007, 09:54 PM
I would agree. Maybe he just sensed something bad. And then the man reaching for him when he was obviously not happy didn't help I'm sure. If this is not typical behavior I wouldn't stress about it too much. But I can certainly understand your concerns. I'm no expert though!

jiorji
February 6th, 2007, 09:55 PM
Perhaps he sensed something bad about the man. :shrug:



yeah i would've thought so too...but still it's dangerous that he went off on Meb. who knows what ticked him off?

Meb what was the man's reaction?

Byrd
February 6th, 2007, 09:58 PM
Why would someone try to pet a dog that was barking and snarling at him?

jiorji
February 6th, 2007, 10:00 PM
i don't know...to calm him down?? No idea. I'd stand still.
but some people who have never been around pets all their life just don't know better. :shrug:

Byrd
February 6th, 2007, 10:06 PM
True. But, man, if a large dog were barking at me, I sure wouldn't go near it, whether I knew anything about dogs, or not.... especially not.

Prin
February 6th, 2007, 10:09 PM
One time thing. The most concern I have is the way he turned back at you... He shouldn't have done that. But the reaction to the man happens sometimes... Boo did it a couple years ago to some random guy in the park too.

Winston
February 6th, 2007, 10:11 PM
You know I honestly think that some dogs have this extra sense of some kind...My dog Winston did this twice to me with a complete strangers in the area?? For some reason he was lunging at these men and the hair on his back was up! If I did not have control I really think he would have went after them for some reason...maybe not to bite but certainly to bark!! and be aggressive... He would not stop until on both occasions the person was completely out of site! He has a wonderful lab spirit but something was just not right! I was terrified myself thinking what could have happened if I lost control of the situation....I am thinking of you! I sort of know how you feel..

I think we all know our animals pretty well....I would think of it being more of a fear bite...or a reaction to fear!

Hope you feel better!

Smiley14
February 6th, 2007, 10:22 PM
Oh Meb, I'm so sorry. I actually know exactly what you're going through. The same thing happened with my previous dog, Max. He was a Border Collie/Springer mix and was sweet as pie to everything and everyone the first two years I had him. I got him as a rescue when he was two years old. Around four years old, he suddenly started trying to attack people. It started one day when a friend of mine rang the doorbell. I was holding onto his collar while talking to her in the doorway and he suddenly lunged up and bit on her glove and yanked it off. He didn't get her fingers by some miracle. He had never shown any aggression prior to this and had even met my friend several times prior, so we were shocked. He seemed to be "normal" again after that and seemed just fine around people again, so while it made me nervous and I kept a closer eye on him, it didn't trigger a full alarm for me. A few months went by, we were at a doggie cafe when a toddler came through the front door. He was loose in the back play area and again, without warning, suddenly lunged. Fortunately, I caught him and nothing happened, but it scared me to death. He was never again off leash after that.

I worked with several animal behavorists and actually drove him around to some in different states even, trying to find help. I was told to put him down by most of them. I found one wonderful woman in Wisconsin who came all the way to MN to make house calls and she worked with us. She diagnosed him with fearful aggression. It was NEVER aimed at me, but he continued to get progressively worse to the point he would want to attack anyone outside my immediate family. We never did get a cause or find out what triggered it suddenly after two perfect years. They did not think it was springer rage, but just from his body language and nervousness, and from analyziing him in several different environments and situations, she and the vets finally diagnosed him with fearful aggression. He was put on zoloft and it helped calm him, but did not stop him from trying to attack people.

He was kept on a gentle leader or muzzle for all walks, could never go off leash ever again, and had to be locked away in a bedroom with the door actually locked whenever anyone came to the house. I ahd a cedar fence installed around the back fence to protect the neighborhood children as well and he was never outside unattended. I was EXTREMELY careful with him and we managed to find a way to live with it. It broke my heart because he was my baby, and was so perfect with me. No one else got to see him like I did. I got Petey after he passed away and I had some scars I didn't even realize I had, they had developed into such deep seeded instinct for me. It took me a good year to adjust to life with a non-aggressive dog again.

Hopefully your situation is entirely different, but it might be worth while to work with an animal behavorist just in case. I just know that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach when something like that happens. I do think you are right to be cautious just in case though. And hopefully it was just something with that particular man, as others have suggested. I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this! :grouphug:

meb999
February 6th, 2007, 10:25 PM
One time thing. The most concern I have is the way he turned back at you...

He's never ever done that before. EVER. The whole way home he had his little bum all tucked in, and he's been showing me his belly all night (everytime I walk next to him)....

I had this vision of him biting the guy...just running up to him and bitting his neck.....


Meb what was the man's reaction?
It was so weird Jiroji...like out of a movie, the man was completely oblivious to Buster's warning signs (I think he thought Buster wanted to play...) He didn't seem phased by any of it...:confused:

Skryker
February 6th, 2007, 10:25 PM
:grouphug: meb! It sounds like a one time thing-maybe Buster just really didn't like this guy or sensed the guy had bad intentions towards you. If Buster just pulled your glove off, maybe he wasn't even trying to bite you at all. :fingerscr

jiorji
February 6th, 2007, 10:28 PM
The whole way home he had his little bum all tucked in, and he's been showing me his belly all night (everytime I walk next to him)....




awwww that makes me sad :sad: he knows he was wrong

Skryker
February 6th, 2007, 10:28 PM
He's never ever done that before. EVER. The whole way home he had his little bum all tucked in, and he's been showing me his belly all night (everytime I walk next to him)....

I had this vision of him biting the guy...just running up to him and bitting his neck.....



It was so weird Jiroji...like out of a movie, the man was completely oblivious to Buster's warning signs (I think he thought Buster wanted to play...) He didn't seem phased by any of it...:confused:

Years ago, I had a similiar thing happen when I was walking 2 Dobes. This guy came up and tried to pet them, even though they were both growling and showing teeth, hackles up. It was strange, like the guy had no clue the dogs were in full-on protective mode. Freaked me out, because I'd never seen either dog do that with anyone before. I'm convinced the guy was a total creep and the dogs picked up on it.

technodoll
February 6th, 2007, 10:30 PM
yeah i tend to agree with the others on this one... buster probably sensed something about this person, his "smell" or "aura" wasn't right... he was just doing his job. BUT the snapping around to make you let go of him... that's not right. no matter the situation, the alpha is *always* in control and is the boss, a dog who knows that wouldn't even try to challenge that. some dogs do get so intense though, they lose that sense of "right vs wrong" and that, IMO, is a sign that Boot Camp may be in order... :o

i wouldn't be so drastic as to "never let him off leash again", that is akin to jail-time specially for an active physical breed like boxers. they need to run, they need to let loose once in a while. don't let one situation ruin what you have now... just focus on some new training, reinforce good behaviors and your alpha status, etc. be safe and choose times like tonight to let him run loose and practice recall to death for those "in case" situations....

but yeah. so much easier to dispense advice when it's not happening to you... :grouphug: i suggest a stiff drink for tonight and tomorrow is another day! :goodvibes:

Prin
February 6th, 2007, 10:33 PM
I'm glad he's feeling guilty.. Honestly, he probably thought you were in super danger and it was worth it.:o (Just my optimistic analysis...)

Byrd
February 6th, 2007, 10:35 PM
I agree there, I believe that he truly sensed danger and was protecting, but I agree with TD that re-establishing dominance is probably a good thing right now. Protecting is one thing, making you let him go is another.

My obedience instructor has a nice simple way of doing this.... sit on the floor and tell him 'down'. Have him stay down for 30 minutes. Don't talk to him, don't touch him. If he tries to get up simply put him back down, without saying anything. After the 30 minutes release him, even if he falls asleep wake him up to release him. After the first week, move a bit further away, then further, and further until you are across the room or can even move around with him in a 30 minute down. It really does work.

meb999
February 6th, 2007, 10:39 PM
thanks guys...I keep reading other threads, but I can't even post in any of them. I'm surprisingly shaken up. I had such a BAD feeling...I've never not trusted him before with humans....

He's being so submissive tonight. But he's going on a strict NILIF for awhile. And I think a call to trainer will be made tomorow (now I just have to find one I like....:rolleyes: )

You guys are really helping calm my nerves though...thanks :o

Smiley14
February 6th, 2007, 10:41 PM
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be all negative, I would just caution you to be careful, just in case. I truly, truly hope he just sensed something awful in that man and was in protective mode. And nine times out of ten, that is exactly as it is. But just speaking as someone who was that one time percentage, Max would also go from being happy-go-lucky, to attack mode, to "guilty" mode where he would whine and tuck in his tail and show me his belly, all in a matter of a few quick minutes. It was such a fast and weird range of emotions without any warning whatsoever. It was like he knew he was wrong, but couldn't seem to help himself.

But anyway, I'm sorry again, I don't mean to be negative. I just think it's better to be safe than sorry. :o It's just the intensity you describe, where in that split second moment he doesn't even seem to recognize you or your authority and turns back on your glove for a quick second before suddenly being "normal" again, sounds painfully familiar. :o Perhaps as TD suggested and some boot camp type training to reinforce what he already knows? But anyway, you know your baby best, so whatever you do, it will be the right thing!

Prin
February 6th, 2007, 10:43 PM
Here meb: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=15712 ;)

meb999
February 6th, 2007, 10:44 PM
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be all negative, I would just caution you to be careful, just in case. I truly, truly hope he just sensed something awful in that man and was in protective mode. And nine times out of ten, that is exactly as it is. But just speaking as someone who was that one time percentage, Max would also go from being happy-go-lucky, to attack mode, to "guilty" mode where he would whine and tuck in his tail and show me his belly, all in a matter of a few quick minutes. It was such a fast and weird range of emotions without any warning whatsoever. It was like he knew he was wrong, but couldn't seem to help himself.

But anyway, I'm sorry again, I don't mean to be negative. I just think it's better to be safe than sorry. :o It's just the intensity you describe, where in that split second moment he doesn't even seem to recognize you or your authority and turns back on your glove for a quick second before suddenly being "normal" again, sounds painfully familiar. :o Perhaps as TD suggested and some boot camp type training to reinforce what he already knows? But anyway, you know your baby best, so whatever you do, it will be the right thing!

please don't be sorry....I'm glad you posted your story, and that's the reason I'd like to find a trainer - - the sooner the better....I want to nip this in the bud.

jiorji
February 6th, 2007, 10:44 PM
i think not letting him off leash again is the right thing to do.
Not to sound harsh, but Meb you're lucky that man didn't flip out. Other dog haters would've and it could've ended in more trouble, poor Buster :sad:

meb999
February 6th, 2007, 10:46 PM
Here meb: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=15712 ;)

hey I REMEMBER that thread! :D

Again, thanks everyone :o

meb999
February 6th, 2007, 10:48 PM
i think not letting him off leash again is the right thing to do.
Not to sound harsh, but Meb you're lucky that man didn't flip out. Other dog haters would've and it could've ended in more trouble, poor Buster :sad:

For awhile, no more offleash...luckily we have a backyard, so I can play with him and let him run out there....As long as I stay out with him to play, he usually gets a good run out back....
I don't feel like I can trust him, and I'm sure he'll sense that off me and it'll make everything worse. :shrug:

technodoll
February 6th, 2007, 10:49 PM
Meb, perhaps call Isabelle from www.academichien.com... she's awesome. :)

meb999
February 6th, 2007, 10:52 PM
thanks techno :thumbs up

erykah1310
February 6th, 2007, 10:54 PM
MEB :grouphug: I can completely understand your fear right now... the "what if...what if" s running throught your head....:grouphug:
Definately call a trainer... and I do believe that he didnt like something about that guy... ( but the obvious question to me is.. how many other people may he react this way too?) I wouldnt ignore what happened by all means, but I really wouldnt focus too much on it either,:shrug:
I think ( and this is just My Opinion here) Buster shouldnt be trusted like all is fine for a while, but his training backed up, in a sence, to help ensure this doesnt escallate and become something else...

Yes it happens when dogs just "lose it" Meik has done it many of times, my Max did it a few times too. I still left off leash afterwards, but it took a while for me to have faith in them again.

Im starting to think im rambling and prolly not making a whole lot of sence so im just gonna give another:grouphug: and stop now...:o

pitgrrl
February 6th, 2007, 11:04 PM
It's just the intensity you describe, where in that split second moment he doesn't even seem to recognize you or your authority and turns back on your glove for a quick second before suddenly being "normal" again, sounds painfully familiar. :o Perhaps as TD suggested and some boot camp type training to reinforce what he already knows? But anyway, you know your baby best, so whatever you do, it will be the right thing!

I've never personally dealt with this, but doesn't the turning back and biting the glove sound much more like re-direction than an issue of not understanding who the boss is?

As for the whole incident, if it were my dog I would keep a close eye on his behavior and try not to be either overly paranoid or excuse sketchy behavior, but that said, it might really be a one time thing, only time will tell.

Spirit
February 7th, 2007, 12:40 AM
Did you analize the situation? What was the environment like? Was it daytime, nighttime, foggy, a new area, was there construction or something different in the area that would be new to the dog, how did the man approach the dog (was was his body language saying)? I wouldn't blow this off as a "one time only thing", but instead, try to get to the root of why it happened in the first place.

It doesn't take much to throw a dog off, and this could have just been one of those things that triggered your dog to go into protect mode. I wouldn't at all say that he's becoming aggressive towards humans (in general), but something told him to become aggressive towards thisman. And that gave him power, so it's likely to happen again... and next time it will probably happen a lot quicker as your dog likely gained confidence from this experience. Especially if he thinks he was protecting you, or his "space".

What was YOUR body language saying? How did you react to your dog? Did your energy level rise into a panic mode, or did you remain calm and assertive? A lot of how your dog acts (or reacts) will also be a result of your actions (conscious or not), or if your dog is an alpha type... in which case you have bigger problems on your hand.

Sorry, I didn't read this entire thread, but I did skim through it and no clear answer really stood out to me, so I hope my reply helps somewhat.

Smiley14
February 7th, 2007, 01:17 AM
I've never personally dealt with this, but doesn't the turning back and biting the glove sound much more like re-direction than an issue of not understanding who the boss is?

As for the whole incident, if it were my dog I would keep a close eye on his behavior and try not to be either overly paranoid or excuse sketchy behavior, but that said, it might really be a one time thing, only time will tell.

Well, I'm sure my situation was quite different from Meb's. In my case, it was purely non-recognition. I paid a lot of money to work with two nationally recognized behaviorists and neither of them could figure Max out. Medically, the vet couldn't figure anything out either. The reason they first thought springer rage was because it was as if he would mentally snap for a few minutes. His eyes would completely change, his intensity would go up to the extreme, and he would be singularly focused on his goal: a particular person. He would not recognize or acknowledge me in the few minutes these "spells" would last.
My lawn mower guy was terrified of him because every week when Max would see him, he would snap and launch himself over and over against the glass sliding door until the whole thing would shake. I have massive bite marks in the wood frame as he would instantly need to bite. If he couldn't get to the person, which he NEVER did, he would bite whatever was in front of him. It was some kind of weird mental snap triggered by fearful aggression. All the while he would be snarling and barking fiercely. And then just as suddenly, he would snap out of it, recognize me, and go into submissive, guilt mode and be his happy-go-lucky self again. I swear, that dog had multiple personalities.

So obviously his story is the extreme. But I think it does serve as good reminder not to ignore triggers and to learn what they are to hopefully train against them or to know what or when to avoid something, as I had to do.

Here's a picture of Max by the way. :sorry: :offtopic:

phoenix
February 7th, 2007, 09:02 AM
yeah i tend to agree with the others on this one... buster probably sensed something about this person, his "smell" or "aura" wasn't right... he was just doing his job. BUT the snapping around to make you let go of him... that's not right. no matter the situation, the alpha is *always* in control and is the boss, a dog who knows that wouldn't even try to challenge that. some dogs do get so intense though, they lose that sense of "right vs wrong" and that, IMO, is a sign that Boot Camp may be in order... :o

i wouldn't be so drastic as to "never let him off leash again", that is akin to jail-time specially for an active physical breed like boxers. they need to run, they need to let loose once in a while. don't let one situation ruin what you have now... just focus on some new training, reinforce good behaviors and your alpha status, etc. be safe and choose times like tonight to let him run loose and practice recall to death for those "in case" situations.... :


I completely agree with Techno. Sorry you're shook up MEB, I hope you feel better this morning. He does respect you (as his behaviour is showing now)- I think he just got caught up in the moment. Boxers are meant to be personal protectors... and maybe he felt you were at risk (who knows, maybe you were...)

4thedogs
February 7th, 2007, 11:41 AM
I have seen many, many dogs with severe aggression be taught to deal in a positive manner towards the things(people/dogs, etc) that they had been aggressive with.
Meb, The reason for the snap has been given by another(redirection). Although not acceptable, it was not intended aggression towards you. this next part is not directed to you just a frustration I have in general.

It is very sad when I hear people knowingly/unknowingly accept these behaviours from their dogs. I often hear excuses as to why they think they are doing it and end up doing nothing to rectify the issue. For example, "My dog doesn't like kids, dogs, etc. or maybe doesn't accept behaviours such as, bouncing, nipping puppies" Instead of finding out why and then teaching the dogs how to deal and make better choices when in an uncomfortable situation. What happens more often is the owners avoid these things and put the blame for their dogs behaviour on the other thing.

Many owners often place a human response for their dogs reason for the aggression.

Meb, There are many things that need to be done to determine the route of the problem that I haven't mentioned. Basically you need to gather a lot of information to get to the route. The reason may not be what one thinks.
Lots of questions and details that the average person would not even think about. This is why you need to find someone that is an expert in dog behaviour and aggression. I would also suggest dealing with the dog aggression at the same time.

It is quite possible that Buster knew something about this guy that you didn't but regardless, you don't want your dog to become aggressive.

OntarioGreys
February 7th, 2007, 12:00 PM
n your first post there are possibly 3 types of aggression going on

Until some guy comes running towards us. Buster freaks out and runs toward him barking. Could be fear related feeling that the guy was a threat, so he acted defensively or it could be the one just below
o
THe guy runs offs it starts again but this time he is acting protectively wanting to drive the person away, Protective aggression

He gets frustrated because he is worked up wanting to chase this guy away and he aggression turns to redirected aggression when he tries bite you, this is instinction and he is totally unaware of what he is doing at the time as h is so worked up emotionally

His reactions to other dogs may be dominance related,protective or fear related

Each has to be worked on and addressed seperately, and any decent trainer should after hearing your story tell their are multiforms of aggression occuring
if they don't indentify the senario as being multiple forms don't waste you money on them, there are plenty of people who call themselves trainers and behaviourists that no specialized training, in North America there is no legistation to prevent people from calling themselves what ever, so yo really need to check the out. And dog training schools were you leave he dog with them and later pick up a so called cured/trained dog I would be very wary about I personally would never use after hearing/reading some horror stories about, like starving and beating dog into submission.
Anybody that calls themselves a behaviourist I would be asking where they obtained their training, I personally prefer that the ones I hire have studied animal behavior and or psychology at a university, and a dog should be put through a full assessment to test their reaction/responses to different stimuli before coming up with a treatment/training plan, it is not always just a behaviour poblem could be hormonal , related to some underlying health problem or brain chemistry, so they may request a vet work up as well

~michelle~
February 7th, 2007, 12:20 PM
im sooo sorry meb. as some of you know I have had probs with logan being too protective and not liking certain men. although hes never tried to bite anone :fingerscr i too had a guy continue to try and pet logan after he was snarling and barking at him. some people are idiots this guy was high as a kite (which sets logan off) and thought he knew everything there was to know about dog behaviour (oh hes just scared cause you put him on a leash and es tied up) and im like no its because your high, towering oveer him in an aggressive manner and are way too close to his family but some people are really strange that way :shrug: unfortunately no matter how many warning signs a dog gives to back off if they bite no matter what the person did unless immediately threatening and even then, the law is on the persons side.
im glad you are fnding a trainer.... hopefully this never ever happens again

Hunter's_owner
February 7th, 2007, 04:17 PM
So sorry to hear MEB, that must have been horrible. I agree with the others though, I think it was a one time thing. He must have sensed something and then when the guy didn't back off Buster had to increase his warnings. I mean if I were scared and some guy still kept coming and coming, after me warning them to back off, then he reached out, I would overreact as well, imo
:grouphug:

hazelrunpack
February 7th, 2007, 04:50 PM
I don't know, meb--this guy would have made me nervous, too.

...Until some guy comes running towards us. Buster freaks out and runs toward him barking. He's barked at people before but usually the second I say : 'it's ok' he stops and goes into play-mode. Tonight he was snarling and barking at the guy even after I said ok. So I'm holding him by the collar about to put his leash on when the guy reachs us and says :your dog is handsome' and reaches down to pet him. Buster jumped, he didn'T bite, but I honestly think he was going to...

He ran toward you, didn't heed Buster's warning or your obvious distress, and then wanted to pet Buster despite Buster's continuing warning behavior. Granted, you don't want Buster reacting aggressively toward people in the park, and it's probably wise that you don't let him off-leash again until you're more convinced that this was a one-time deal--but frankly, this guy is going to get the same reaction from a lot of dogs. If I were out with one of my setters and a strange man ran toward me, he'd likely get the same reaction out of my dog that he got out of Buster--if only because it would make me uncomfortable and the dog would pick up on it. (And setters are definitely lovers without a lot of agression in them...)

Maybe this guy had no ill intentions, but something about his behavior just doesn't seem right to me. Maybe it didn't to Buster, either... :shrug:

Golden Girls
February 7th, 2007, 06:00 PM
I've never personally dealt with this, but doesn't the turning back and biting the glove sound much more like re-direction than an issue of not understanding who the boss is?

As for the whole incident, if it were my dog I would keep a close eye on his behavior and try not to be either overly paranoid or excuse sketchy behavior, but that said, it might really be a one time thing, only time will tell.I pretty much agree with this whole post. IMO Buster was just looking out for you Meb warning a guy who he thought was approaching you. Obviously the guy wasn't afraid of Buster's warning and proceeded with a pet but to Buster I think he was just saying "do not touch my property" :confused: I agree biting your glove was just a re-direction of a rebel in action :evil:

I really don't think you should worry so much. I think we all must remember not only are they our pets, their quite pampered pets and I think sometimes they may just forget some doggie manners :shrug:

I also think this way because you say it's not often Buster's off-leash so maybe he was taking advantage of the situation by showing you he's the man? I realize you say he's not so dog friendly but again that's usually just fear in reverse? From all the posts I've ever read regarding Buster ... he's just a big suck, and so darn cute :lovestruck:

meb999
February 7th, 2007, 07:38 PM
Thank you so much everyone...this place really is a life saver :thumbs up

i wouldn't be so drastic as to "never let him off leash again", that is akin to jail-time specially for an active physical breed like boxers. they need to run, they need to let loose once in a while. don't let one situation ruin what you have now... just focus on some new training, reinforce good behaviors and your alpha status, etc. be safe and choose times like tonight to let him run loose and practice recall to death for those "in case" situations.... :

you're right. I guess I just mean he won't be offleash until I feel I can trust him again....even if this is a one time incident, if I'm scared he'll do it again, he'll feel the fear oozing out of me and he might be more likely to be on the defensive :shrug:


Maybe this guy had no ill intentions, but something about his behavior just doesn't seem right to me. Maybe it didn't to Buster, either...

You know what Hazel? It's so weird...I was thinking about this today...the guy was telling me he has a german sheperd -- how could someone who owns a dog possibly not see those warning signs? A little freaky.....

Hunter's_owner
February 7th, 2007, 08:12 PM
The thing is MEB, people can have a dog and not Know a dog you know?

I know a lot of people who have had a dog and not known any of their behaviours....He clearly didn't understand dog language:shrug:

Prin
February 7th, 2007, 08:21 PM
No, but a GSD? Those are hard. If you don't "know" your GSD, you're in trouble. :o

meb999
February 7th, 2007, 08:25 PM
yeah , they're hard...AND they shed :D

Golden Girls
February 7th, 2007, 08:28 PM
I know a lot of people who have had a dog and not known any of their behaviours....He clearly didn't understand dog language:shrug:Or, maybe he did and that's why he wasn't afraid? If it really scared you and I don't blame you I guess keeping him leashed at all times until your comfortable is best. I can't imagine how scared you must of been but again Buster would be the 1st one to sense this as well no :shrug:

Prin
February 7th, 2007, 08:32 PM
yeah , they're hard...AND they shed :D

Yep, that's them alright.:D

Golden Girls
February 7th, 2007, 08:36 PM
The reason I'm thinking this way too is because Brandi will run and bark at strangers and won't let anyone approach me. I just call out it's ok she's harmless and I sense she feels I'm at ease because at that point she'll stop.

meb999
February 7th, 2007, 08:41 PM
well, an awesome behaviorist has been contacted, and we'll be meeting in 2 weeks. :fingerscr :fingerscr oooo, maybe we can turn Buster into a lover, not a fighter :D

Colubridz
February 8th, 2007, 01:27 AM
well, an awesome behaviorist has been contacted, and we'll be meeting in 2 weeks. :fingerscr :fingerscr oooo, maybe we can turn Buster into a lover, not a fighter :D

Great to hear a behaviorist is deffiently the right route, I finally found one that I trust to help Duke and I, as he's started acting aggressively towards strangers in public which is obviously unacceptable especially since he still has more growing to do ( 6 month old Rotti/GSD/Collie cross) so I hope a behaviourlist can improve both of our situations.

On a random side note I to have found certain people insist on trying to pet Duke when he's backing away and growling, I ask them to please not approach or try to pet him as at the moment for what ever reason he's having some fear aggression issues were working through and if they continue to I'm going to have to walk away before he bites you. ( not that he's ever even snapped at anyone but still can't be to careful) I also had a drunk try and pet Diamond our boxer before she passed away in October.
She picked up on it immediatly and planted herself in front of me, ready to defend us if necissary; so I had to try and explian to the man to not pet my dog while trying to convince her it was ok, not an easy thing to do.

Kayla

coppperbelle
February 8th, 2007, 07:00 AM
thanks guys...I keep reading other threads, but I can't even post in any of them. I'm surprisingly shaken up. I had such a BAD feeling...I've never not trusted him before with humans....

He's being so submissive tonight. But he's going on a strict NILIF for awhile. And I think a call to trainer will be made tomorow (now I just have to find one I like....:rolleyes: )

You guys are really helping calm my nerves though...thanks :o

Meb
About a year and a half ago I was going through something similar with Chloe. She had always had a bit of aggression but it began to escalate. She bit my nephews girlfriend and then a few months later me. She would snarl when I tried to groom her or get her to do something she didn't want to do. When out walking she began lunging at other dogs and then that too escalated where she began lunging at people. One day I was walking her and a boy I knew stopped to talk to me. She bit him for absolutely no reason at all. I was at the cottage one day and did not expect a delivery. When I heard the truck I put her on the deck. She jumped over the railing and down an 8 foot drop to get to the UPS guy. Fortunately they are trained what to do and he just stood there talking to her quietly. That was it for me and I stopped taking her out. Someone sent me an article on hypothyroidism and aggression. A light went off and I had her tested. Sure enough that was part of her problem. It took six weeks on medication to see a difference. We also began taking obedience classes and the combination of the two have turned her around 100%. The trainer I had diagnosed her as a bully and she was right. Chloe thought it was her job to keep everyone in line. When I took over she relaxed.
She is happy again and sweet like a golden should be.
Make sure when you are looking for a trainer you find one you like. I had one that was terrible. The second one I used was great and had a no nonsense approach to dog training. You will need one with experience in issues such as yours.