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living in a dream world

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 05:14 PM
I'm just curious but why are all puppies sick at a young age?and adult dogs wether we recuse them, get them from a breeder, or god forbid in a store, (mind you you are rescueing them when you do that). is it because of their immune systems not fully developed?? or is it just the strees of being in a new home? Even cats from what i hear and read it's the same thing, diarrhea, kennal cough, not eating ect. ect. It confuses me to no end I would just like to go to a breeder or rescue center and find an animal that doesn't have these problem, but of course i am living in a dream world.

Frenchy
January 27th, 2007, 05:18 PM
I would just like to go to a breeder or rescue center and find an animal that doesn't have these problem, but of course i am living in a dream world.

If you adopt from a rescue you won't get a sick animal. But there's not a lot of puppies in rescues.

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 05:21 PM
not many puppies i agree, but some of the older dogs have behaveral problem or been abused, not all but some, and can take months even years to correct.

Frenchy
January 27th, 2007, 05:27 PM
not many puppies i agree, but some of the older dogs have behaveral problem or been abused, not all but some, and can take months even years to correct.

Where did you get that ? I foster for a rescue and none of these dogs have behavioral problems nor have been abuse. These are dogs that people can't/won't keep anymore and some of them are rescued from shelters when up for euthanasia. The owners that "dumped" these dogs are the ones with behavioral problems !!! I did foster 2 puppy mills females last year and I get lots of updates about one of them, after 6 months she is 100% normal family dog.:thumbs up

LL1
January 27th, 2007, 05:28 PM
Adult dogs are a safer option imo,many pups grow up with behavioral and health issues,adult dogs are more a what you see is what you get option ime

I was not clear on what your question was?

Frenchy
January 27th, 2007, 05:57 PM
I would just like to go to a breeder or rescue center and find an animal that doesn't have these problem, but of course i am living in a dream world.

Are you looking to adopt ? If so, there is lots of great rescues here in Quebec (pm me if you want names) and I can garantee you ; rescue dogs are the best !

wdawson
January 27th, 2007, 06:47 PM
how can a pup grow up to have behavioral problems......if you are a good and resposible owner and seek training and apply dicipline then you will have a good pup.

wdawson
January 27th, 2007, 06:51 PM
also...how can you be sure about health problems......they are rescues and most are given up or abandoned......do you think the original irresponsible owner gave vet reciepts:rolleyes:

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 07:12 PM
how can a pup grow up to have behavioral problems......if you are a good and resposible owner and seek training and apply dicipline then you will have a good pup.

I am not saying puppies have behavioral problems i am saying some adult dogs do the one's that have been "dumped" because of their behavior and they end up in a recue centre.
call me ignorent ( i only recued 1 dog) he had some problems that took me quit a while to correct and even that did not correct it total but some people i know that has recued dogs (from where did not ask) has had problems with the older dogs. as for puppies depends on where you get them i.e stores,
are sick

t.pettet
January 27th, 2007, 07:41 PM
The vast majority of rescue dogs with behavioural issues can be turned around once they're away from their clueless owners. Its the people who have taken an empty slate (brand new pup) and molded the pup into socially unacceptable adults. With the proper early training methods most dogs would be close to perfection. So many people have dogs in their households but are completely ignorant of the necessary management and interactions required to bring out the best behaviour in their pets. This is why our shelters are over-flowing with unwanted pets. I think that some people are just born with an instinct that enables one to interact successfully with any animal (especially long-term rescuers and those who work in the animal care field) its not something that can be learned. Anyone can own a dog but few can bring out the best that it can be.

wdawson
January 27th, 2007, 07:43 PM
well i think the ones you didn't ask where the got them.....well puppy mill comes to mind.puppies from stores are from puppy mills.......and i doubt that an older dog from a rescue had problems.....unless the problems where stated beforehand and the adoptee was aware.

Prin
January 27th, 2007, 07:54 PM
If you get a dog from a good rescue, you'll have an easier time than if you get one from a shelter.

If you get an older dog, you have to understand that sometimes, they haven't had any training at all, and yes, some have been abused, but that doesn't make them any more difficult to raise than a puppy from a breeder, IMO. An older dog usually is more willing to be trained and ready to learn.

A good rescue with good foster homes will be honest with an adopter and will disclose ANYTHING that might cause the adopter to change their mind before taking the dog. Like Frenchy with the black lab she found. When she got a rescue to take her on, she gave them 2 pages of details about her so there would be as few surprises as possible. :shrug:

I got Boo from a shelter and they had no idea about anything about him. Yes, it was hard, and I was ready for hard (lucky for Boo). But there are "easy" rescues out there too. :)

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 08:02 PM
I guess when you here and see things about the dogs (like some of the people i know) leaves a bitter tast in my mouth. I am sorry if i afended anyone what you guys do with recue dogs and sheters is GREAT REALLY GREAT. call it a bad day but for some reason ( visiting with my friend) today has just bothered me alot. http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/kaocow/0000000009.gif

Prin
January 27th, 2007, 08:11 PM
You're right though. Rescue dogs can be hard if you don't have any help to point you in the right direction and to the right dog. :)

LL1
January 27th, 2007, 08:25 PM
Actually that is wrong imo.Genetic issues are at play with many behavioral and health issues,even dogs raised since they were tiny pups can turn out in ways one would not expect.


how can a pup grow up to have behavioral problems......if you are a good and resposible owner and seek training and apply dicipline then you will have a good pup.

LL1
January 27th, 2007, 08:27 PM
Most good rescues do a full vet work up on the animals,and also have them in foster care for a minimum period of time.Most issues will become apparent with both of those factors at play.
also...how can you be sure about health problems......they are rescues and most are given up or abandoned......do you think the original irresponsible owner gave vet reciepts:rolleyes:

wdawson
January 27th, 2007, 08:32 PM
same as people:rolleyes:

wdawson
January 27th, 2007, 08:41 PM
even with a full vet work up.....that does not guarentee a healthy life....

Prin
January 27th, 2007, 08:44 PM
even with a full vet work up.....that does not guarentee a healthy life....

No but even buying from the best breeder in the world doesn't guarantee that either. ;)

LL1
January 27th, 2007, 08:45 PM
wdawson There are no guarantees any animal or person will live a healthy life.I personally think if one was wagering that an adult rescue is a safer bet.I am guessing you are not in rescue.I suggest getting involved,it can be an eye opener.

:lovestruck:

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 08:45 PM
even with a full vet work up.....that does not guarentee a healthy life

no but if all does that then it might help for the comon problems then after that we keep our :fingerscr

wdawson
January 27th, 2007, 08:47 PM
nobody and i mean nobody can guarantee the mental temperament of any animal.

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 08:48 PM
wdawson There are no guarantees any animal or person will live a healthy life.I personally think if one was wagering that an adult rescue is a safer bet.I am guessing you are not in rescue.I suggest getting involved,it can be an eye opener.

:lovestruck:

I wish everyone would open there eyes

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 08:50 PM
The people i know did not open their eyes and it is not a pretty sight, I am just learning about this whole thing good and bad from friends and reading alot about it, even i need to become educated.

Prin
January 27th, 2007, 08:52 PM
nobody and i mean nobody can guarantee the mental temperament of any animal.

Maybe not, but after being around hundreds and hundreds of dogs every year, you kind of get a good idea of how to tell how adjusted a doggy is. :shrug:

wdawson
January 27th, 2007, 08:54 PM
even though i am not involved in rescue..i assume you both are,it does not mean my eyes are not open to the issues of animal wellfare...to say i'm closed minded(eyes closed) is an insult......show me how you are looking out for the welfare of animals......

Frenchy
January 27th, 2007, 08:58 PM
Like Frenchy with the black lab she found. When she got a rescue to take her on, she gave them 2 pages of details about her so there would be as few surprises as possible. :shrug:



:offtopic: Lilly has been added to the rescue's web adoption page , there is not a lot of details but it does clearly states she's an escape artist :thumbs up

wdawson
January 27th, 2007, 08:58 PM
prin
not at you

Prin
January 27th, 2007, 08:59 PM
W, I don't know if you remember when we put down my bro's doggy, Roxy, but my brother worked with her for about 3 years before giving up because he just couldn't handle her and thought somebody else could do a better job one on one. So we brought her to the vet to get her spayed (don't ask :rolleyes: ) and two hours later, BMDLuver called and said there was no way they were doing anything with her because she was a dangerous dog. We had no idea she was that messed up, but the vet and the rescue (BMD) knew right away.

They're just around so many dogs who come from so many different backgrounds that they just eventually see it.

(oh and I know it's not at me, but I also know LL1 does more rescue than I ever will)

Frenchy
January 27th, 2007, 09:00 PM
The people i know did not open their eyes and it is not a pretty sight, I am just learning about this whole thing good and bad from friends and reading alot about it, even i need to become educated.

Did you tell your friend about pets.ca ? Maybe we could help ?

wdawson
January 27th, 2007, 09:01 PM
frenchy you need a stay at home BEAGLE...:D :D

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 09:01 PM
even though i am not involved in rescue..i assume you both are,it does not mean my eyes are not open to the issues of animal wellfare...to say i'm closed minded(eyes closed) is an insult......show me how you are looking out for the welfare of animals......

I was not insulting you but my friends with the problem, without knowing what to look for makes them blind to certin things that they should look for if they are planing on recuing an other dog. I myself get upset when they rush into things without researching first. what i see and hear i am only relating it to people that might be able to explain it to me

Frenchy
January 27th, 2007, 09:06 PM
frenchy you need a stay at home BEAGLE...:D :D

We never know what the future holds :D

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 09:06 PM
no i didn't, they are closed mind that "I can do this " "I can do it by myself" aditude, that in time when turn either way i will tell them but right now there is no talking to them (very fustrating), they think cause i have two dogs they can do it to but they don't relize i have had my share of problems they don't see that.. so i wanted to know more maybe i can relay things to them that you guys have taught me.

jiorji
January 27th, 2007, 09:16 PM
nobody and i mean nobody can guarantee the mental temperament of any animal.


i'm glad i'm not the only one who feels that way. I agree.

Frenchy
January 27th, 2007, 09:19 PM
Breeze, can you tell us what's the problem with your friend's dog ?

wdawson
January 27th, 2007, 09:22 PM
i'm done with this type of thread

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 09:25 PM
Breeze, can you tell us what's the problem with your frined's dog ?

one has behaveral problems, always scared about things and people cowering when someone enters the room. disipline (that will take time i think but she won't tell me where she got this dog and i didn't ask. to me he also looks abused he is about 1 1/2 year old lab mix beautiful dog but i really don't think she can handle him and i told her so ( that did not go well). she thinks she can. but not without help imo. at least be big enough to know when to ask for help??

Frenchy
January 27th, 2007, 09:28 PM
I don't know how your friend is handling it but it does take time and patience. These type of dogs need lots of positive reinforcement, no screaming at the dog, not even speaking loudly. But they do adjust. With the right owner that is.

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 09:33 PM
I don't know how your friend is handling it but it does take time and patience. These type of dogs need lots of positive reinforcement, no screaming at the dog, not even speaking loudly. But they do adjust. With the right owner that is.


excatly with the right owner i now for me i would not bring in a puppy if i did not have time for her, and if i did not have the patience, the same goes for recue dogs but she thinks that she does and can. i do not agree with her and her handling the dog is sooooo scared of it's own shadow imo and i could not even imagine leaving the dog for long periods (1-2 hours) of time like that but she does. i am trying to help but she pushes me away i am still trying.

Frenchy
January 27th, 2007, 09:39 PM
If she leaves the dog alone in the house for a couple hours it's not so bad, I think it gives the dog a break, as long as the house is dog proof, if he destroys things. The only thing YOU can do is leave the door open for help :shrug: Good luck and I hope your friend accept the suggestions. :fingerscr

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 09:43 PM
i hope so, the door is always opened, i go there often and try and lend a hand, sometimes we must learn when to back off and let things happen. take one day at a time and see the results.

breeze
January 27th, 2007, 09:46 PM
thank you for your advice i will certainly pass it on if she will listen :fingerscr

LL1
January 27th, 2007, 10:10 PM
Thanks Prin.

No insults from me,just seemed clear you were not in rescue,I did not say that was a bad thing or insult you in any way.

To assume a pup raised in a loving home would not have issues is so beyond reality I had to post.

No,no guarantees with any dog,pup or adult,regardless of where they are from was my point.

An adult dog that has been fostered in a home for a minimum time,with full behavioral assessment,and full vetting is a safer bet.That is reality,not an opinion.

OntarioGreys
January 28th, 2007, 08:36 AM
Breeze I have had dogs for over 40 years, my puppies did not always come from great breeders, all my pups went for vet visits as required, were provided a decent diet not one was sickly as puppy, I did make a mistake and gave one a ham bone to chew on and he was sick for a couple days, but it became a lessened learned to be careful about treats and keep them on a stable diet.

I did have one puppy that at about 4 months olds I realized his behaviour was obsessive and irratic, as he got older he got worse I finally started testing by going to the vet and the vet recommended a behaviourist, it was then I learned he was mentally wired wrong, it was not really genetic problem per se but his brain just did not work time, because he was showing a lot of agression and was a large powerful dog I made the decision to euthanize rather than risk having him hurt someone, that is life. not everybody or every animal is born perfect, some of the best dogs and most cherished ones I have had are the ones that are not perfect in most people eyes, like Buddy who face was paralysized and had Lupus who I lost at 7years, Jazz the destructo dog, who decided to make lunch of a new leather sofa, chewed through walls, chewed my glasses, chewed the kitchen cabinets the baseboard, ripped up the kitchen floor and shredded it, I was not happy at the time but loved him just the same, and callie who is a lot like your friends dog she left one huge hole in my heart when she left this world even though she was only part of my life for 18 months

Breeze when you went to school, were some of the kids in your classes bold and brassy, the jokesters, some quiet, some outspoken, some very shy or withdrawn? These are personality traits we're are born with, the same goes with dogs, it does not mean the shy dog was beaten or abused, but when they act by cowering or hiding they are showing partly their personality and submissiveness and also insecurity, going into a new home is extremely hard on them, all the changes can be very terrifying, but if one is patient offers a routine so the dogs know when to expect what, does not try to push and force them, the dogs start to relax and gain confidence, and slowly but slowly they blossom,and can be wonderful companions

I have adopted 2 specials need Greyhounds both were spooks means they are beyond being shy, they would have severe panic attacks when scared, this is related to genetics, there is a couple family lines where periodically a spook is born, they start off very normal as puppies enjoy being handled by their trainers, act like any other pup in their litter, then at around 7 months old as they enter puberty with changing of hormones they start to change and start becoming scared of noises and people, they rest of the litter stays totally normal yet they have been all raised and handled the same since birth, some if given a strict routine can handle movng on to track life, but later when faced with change they totally fall apart, some find the change to track life totally overwhelming and are unable to function so are placed for adoption, because of the severity of their fears special care is normally used in placing them , owners need to have lots of dog experience have and understand of dog body language, must understand that they will not change overnight it can be months and even years for confidence to grow, and some never really come around,

Callie was my first, she was able to handle the routine of track life after leaving the farm and spent 1 1/2 years racing before being retired, her first adopted home did not go all to well because she acted to scared around the new owners and visitors and acted so terrible on leash they provided her with a spot in the garage which had access to a fence yard, so she was left pretty much alone and stayed there for 3 years before deciding they no longer wanted her, she was 7 years old then was not handling being back in the kennel well and because of her shyness and age had little chance of getting adopted, when I was told her story I decided I wanted her within 2 hours she was home with me and I was determined to work with her, this is as she was the first day I got her I used a telephoto lens because I could not get near her at first
http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/mleg2001/th_fd58a1b9.jpg

so work I did

I start setting a strict routine meal times, walks, an half hour set aside to give massages to get her used to me handling her and learning my touching her could feel good. 4 outings a day in the yard, by setting a time for everything she would learn when to expect thing would happen and learn what is going to happen next, routine can help build a sense of security.

Walks were very tough at first she was afraid of everything , it took me over an hour to make the 15 minute walk around the block with her bucking and trying to bolt all the way around the block, it took about 6 months before she was finally getting fairly good on leash, the massages helped get her used to me handling her and starting making it easier to get her on leash , she was now taking food from my hand, but was not ready to initiate the first move to approach me for attention, outside she was enjoying playing with the other dogs and running, at this point I starting taking her to more public places still maintaining distance from other people and letting her observe them and gradually starting taking her closer and closer I only pushed to the point where she would just begin to worry a bit and as she got comfortable with that distance got her in a little closer again just to the point she would worry but not get scared, at about 8 months she was getting pretty comfortable with me walking up to her and was approaching as long as Sunny my other dog was with her so I started taking her to the dog park where I new other greyhounds would be, and she loved it at about 10 months I started asking people to gently pet her with Sunny standing between her and them, and as she became more comfortable with that I started taking her to small meet and greets where she would have to stand quietly while people petted her,,she shook like crazy at first and had to be given breaks but over time it got easier for her, http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/mleg2001/th_59374980JFUsIv_ph-1.jpg at 14 months she made a bold breakthrough she approached a stranger at the dogpark she had met a few time before for a pet, she was nervous and dancing but allowed the person to pet her for a couple minutes before running off and later did the same thing again, but a future dog park trips started greeting more people on her own, little children scared her the most but at 16 months she decided to cautiously approach a little girl sitting on a bench, the girl must have realized she was scared and wary because she stayed very still as Callie cautiously sniffed her over, then she leaped back and started playbowing to the girl and went up to her again this time being pettedl, it took 16 months of work and patience but she beat her fears, sadly 2 months later cancer claimed her, but she had left this world like a calm and regal queen not one bit of fear in her eyes if anything she was the one that helped to calm me. Before she went I made a promise to her to adopt another spook.

2 1/2 months later I tracked one down in Florida and had her shipped up to me
and she was the type that was super spooky and could not adjust to track life to top it off she was also very submissive and was scared to be around other dogs, this is the day I got her she was crammed tight against the back of the van refusing any eye contact or contact with the other dogs in the van,http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/mleg2001/my%20gang/th_4ea6c6139bef251748d91a1d1629966f.jpg

She was going to make Callie look like one very brave dog and outgoing dog, if Maya even seen a person 50 yards away she would melt down into a panic , I had to fence in my fenced in yard to create a long and narrow run, so I could catch her in order to get her the house. Trying to get her on a leashing meant a daily cornering and trying to catch her it could take almost 1/2 hour just to get a leash and harness on her, I tried the same routine I used for Callie, excepted for her realizing walking time was coming up had her panicking and throwing up from anxiety, so I scrapped the walks instead I would be content just to get her to relaxrf in the house, I spent the next 6 months mostly laying on the floor trying to get her to come to me for treats, 6 months more trying to get her to be able to approach me sitting,about 8 months more for her to approach me for a treat while i stood quietly it was about 2 1/2 year after adoption before I could walk up to her without her bolting everytime for the first year she would run and hide if Sunny looked at her. by the 2 year she decide she did not have to hide away and started more time with the other animals in the household
http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/mleg2001/my%20gang/th_37f0386623443a542b8d897ac57918b9.jpg
and she finally started relaxing enough to play http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/mleg2001/th_13dc8299cce6b9cab922aef4318205b7.jpg

I have had her for 3 years, she has gotten to the point she can peek around corners to check out visitors, she will run and play with me out in the yard, she likes to cuddle in bed, and she will bark and howl at me when she want me to play with her, she can go for walk though is still shaky and scared but at least isn't making herself ill with worry, she is a lot different dog than the one that I first brought home, she probably never will become as brave Callie did but she at least enjoy life most of the time and is still continuing to gain confidence and bounces back a lot faster after things scare her. She was considered one of the worst spooks the Florida group had seen, they were not expecting her to make as much progess as she has made so far in her entire lifetime never mind in 3 years. The reason I enjoy them is because they can enjoy life and playing with almost the extreme as they are shy and fearful, even Callie at nine was full of spunk sass and personality, the have an extra zest for life I don't see in other dogs, it is like they catch up on time they lost being fearful and scared, it like having young child very excited on christmas believing Santa Claus has came but you get to experience than everyday once they relax and start enjoying their life


And a dog that is very shy is comfortable having periods of alone time, most enjoy have a quiet space to themselves and is necessary for them to help them regroup themselves when something upsets them , the worse anybody can do is molly coddle them when they are being fearful because it only serves to make them think there is something to be fearful of. With both my spooks I worked 8 hours day outside the home, they do handle it just fine, that becomes part of the routine that helps them to adjust to life.

Fussing and worrying around the dog is also a bad thing, dogs can sense moods and it can result in them becoming more anxious and can cause them to become neurotic, when you have shy dogs you as their leader must be upbeat and show confidence to let them know things are fine and dandy and life is normal which reduces their anxiety levels

Inisfad
January 28th, 2007, 12:55 PM
I'm just curious but why are all puppies sick at a young age?.
Getting back to the original question, I assume this is natural as their immune system is not fully matured. Children are like this too, no? Mumps, measles, colds, etc.