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More dog food help needed :)

Smiley14
January 26th, 2007, 05:32 PM
Hi guys!

Four months ago, I switched Petey over to Canidae. He loves it and I see a definite improvement in coat quality. However, his gassiness is just getting progressively worse. It was bad the first few weeks, which I expected, but then seemed to get better. But the past two months, it's been awful! :eek: Poor Petey! LOL! He has never been a gassy dog, so this is new for him. We just had a vet checkup and all seems normal, so my vet suggested trying another food switch. Of course all of her suggestions though were food I refuse to give to him. :rolleyes:

So anyway, I'm back on the hunt for another food source for Petey. This is a site I was looking at back in Sept, but ended up going with the Canidae instead. They finally post their nutrition sources online now and also offer several options. I am clueless when it comes to this source, so am hoping someone can let me know if any of these are any good or if they're all bad, bad, bad!

They even offer raw patties and canned Merricks, along with various kibble, so I am open to trying anything. Petey doesn't have any known food allergies, I've used beef, chicken or lamb formulas in the past without any problems. I've tried all the Canidae formulas, but none seem to have a difference in his level of gassiness.

http://www.petchefexpressmn.net/New%20Site/files/dogfood.html

Prin, I've been using the biologic vet salmon oil for a few weeks on Petey now as well. Any other suggestions? :D

Thanks!!!
Steph

Prin
January 26th, 2007, 05:35 PM
Well, probiotics might help the gas...:D

I'm a little lost about that website. Do you want your food to come from there? Do you want canned or kibble or raw?

Smiley14
January 26th, 2007, 05:44 PM
I wondered about trying probiotics. My vet seemed to think a food switch was the best option since he was never gassy before the Canidae. I don't know enough about it all to make an educated decision, LOL!

For the website, I'd love to have the food come from them if possible, simply because they do home deliveries. I have a bad back and have problems lugging giant bags home from the store. So home delivery is my preferred method if at all possible. :o But I don't know if any of their options are any good or not. I really don't care which one, I'm willing to try anything if any of them are good quality. Kibble would be my first choice, but I am open to canned or raw patties if those are better quality then their offered dry. How's that, as clear as mud?! LOL!
Sorry, I guess I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than me could skim the list of ingredients and roughly tell me if they look decent or if they look bad. I grasped the part about meal from other posts, but don't know about the other stuff I can barely even pronounce, let alone understand. :o

ETA: Hmm, the more I look at the kibble ingredients, the more I think it's not so good. I only see one meat meal, then it seems to be grains or beet pulp and tomato pomace from there. So that is bad, right?
The canned or raw look better, but I've never tried either with Petey before. He'll eat anything, so I know he'll eat it, but not sure what it will do or not do for gassiness or how much would be needed to match the equivalent of two cups dry/day.

Prin
January 26th, 2007, 05:56 PM
There just aren't any great dry ones there... Even the raw ones they have have by-products and menadione...:o

The dry ones- a lot have "fish oil", which is unspecified fish :sick:, and they all have menadione in them... Of those, the lamb and the puppy formulas are better, but still not great.:o

The merrick canned is great. The evangers... It's iffy. Some seem ok and others have "animal" things in them, which is the worst possible ingredient ever, IMO... Their 100% meat ones are ok though...

Prin
January 26th, 2007, 05:58 PM
Oh and yeah, a food switch is the best option for the gas, but you might have to trial and error your way though a couple more foods before you get one that agrees with him completely.:)

Smiley14
January 26th, 2007, 06:08 PM
Hmm, that's disappointing! But THANK YOU so much for letting me know! You are awesome!
Guess I'll go back to looking for other delivery options in this area. There's got to be somewhere to buy a good brand online! :)

Prin
January 26th, 2007, 06:11 PM
Good luck! Let me know if you want to sift through another one.;)

Oh and some of the good ma and pa shops deliver too, so you may keep them in mind.:shrug:

Smiley14
January 26th, 2007, 06:25 PM
Oh my gosh, I'm laughing at this company. Check out their claim:

Evolutionís Premium ingredients can help your dog live a healthier, longer life. Our 100% complete Gourmet Pasta is specially formulated using whole grain wheat flour. Because our food is concentrated, you may feed your pet 30% less food. According to the National Institute of Health your pet will live at least 30% longer by doing this. Your Dog will also have 30% less droppings & better long term health. Additionally, expect no bad breath and no body odor attributable to bacteria, viruses, molds and fungi found in animal meal and animal by products. Evolution can say this with absolute certainty because we do not use any animal byproduct ingredients in any of our foods.


And then check out their ingredient list:

Whole Grain Wheat Flour, or Whole Oat Groats, Corn Gluten Meal, Soybean Meal, Soybean Oil, Carrots, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Potato Product, Dried Molasses, Deflourinated Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Nutritional Yeast, Arginine, DL-Methionine, Kelp Meal, Taurine, Garlic, Enzyme Bromelain from Pineapple Stem & Fruit, Enzyme Papain from Papaya, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidum fermentation product, Lysine, Choline Chloride, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D2 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Thiamin Mononitrate, , Menadione Sodium Bisulfite complex, Folic acid, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Inositol, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Zinc Methionine Complex, Copper Lysine Complex, Manganese, Methionine Complex Arachidonic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Cobalt Glucoheptonate.

I know nothing about dog food, but how on earth can all that grain supposedly help a dog live 30% longer?! That is awful.

Oh yeah, and they charge $75 for a 40lb bag! :eek:

Back to google now. :)

Prin
January 26th, 2007, 06:45 PM
Geez!! That's a load! I don't have a clue how an all grain food can reduce the stool. That's just not going to happen.:confused:

technodoll
January 26th, 2007, 06:49 PM
http://capacite.en.droit.free.fr/images/ha.ha.ha.gif

oh man... i have no words am laughing too hard! the audacity is stunning!

Smiley14
January 26th, 2007, 06:59 PM
LOL! Yeah, even I could tell that one seemed a bit off! :p

What about Solid Gold? I found one local delivery company that offers their own premium food that looks about the same as the other one above or else they also deliver Solid Gold. They have three options: Hund-n-Flocken, MMillennia, or Holistique Blendz. The holistique one looks interesting as it's fish and potato, which may be good to try for the gassy problems since I've only tried beef or lamb formulas before. But it says it's a "semi-vegetarian" diet. So would probably need some added meat to that diet?? I don't think he's necessarily allergic to beef or lamb though as I didn't have problems with other cheapy brands I used before I learned better, just the Canidae formulas for some reason. The crappy diet food from the vet was beef based and nary a problem on that stuff either.

http://www.fourseasonspetcare.com/samples.html

Prin
January 26th, 2007, 07:03 PM
Yeah, you'd definitely have to add something to the Holistique. But you could always add either the Merrick canned or Evangers 100% meat canned to it.:shrug:

Smiley14
January 26th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Not having much luck with local delivery companies, but can find online stores that sell various good holistic brands like Merricks, Solid Gold, EVO, or Wellness. Guess I just need to do some experimenting with a few brands and see what works. Anything to get rid of that gas! LOL!

Oh, TD, question for you if I may. :) I can't handle the thought of raw (sorry, totally grosses me out!) unless it's easy like in a patty form where I don't really have to touch it or play with it. I thought I saw you mention that somwhere the other day. Do you know of a good brand of raw patty type of food since the raw patties in the first site I linked don't look the greatest. If you know of a good brand, I can try googling them to see if I can find an online store or a local pet store that sells them. And then do you supplement anything with them or just give them the patties alone?

Thanks again everyone for all your help!!!

Prin
January 26th, 2007, 07:27 PM
Wellness fish and sweet potato might work...:shrug: It's a big grainy, but you know...

Smiley14
January 26th, 2007, 07:30 PM
Thanks Prin!!! :grouphug:

technodoll
January 26th, 2007, 07:36 PM
you're right, raw meat isn't the most pleasant thing to handle :o but with time you get used to it.

IMO one of the best is Nature's Variety Raw Frozen Diets (http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?page=1308&-session=naturesvariety:18CAA7380313f2F136UUX36501E 2) There is a store locator on the site, maybe you'll get lucky?.. :fingerscr

here is a place to order raw diets online... http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/search.aspx?searchterms=Raw-Food (IMO you'll find what you need here, it's a awesome!)

some other formulas to consider:

http://www.auntjeni.com/homemade.htm

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/products/RAW.html

http://www.pets4life.com/index.php?p=products/h4l

good luck! :crazy:

Edited to add: the prices are crazy for pre-made, really... in the neighborhood of $4-5/lbs - it's highway robbery! we make our own "patties" for $0.55/lbs... what if you got someone to make it for you?...

Smiley14
January 26th, 2007, 07:50 PM
Ohhh, I found a local pet store that sells Nature's Variety patties and medallions and they are only a few miles from my house! Cool! Thanks TD!

I also just found an online store in WI that sells Timberwolf!! Isn't that supposed to be a really good brand of dry?! I couldn't find them four months ago when I was looking.

http://www.barksnbubbles.com/subcategories.php?ID=54


I think I'm going to have to experiment and see what combination works best! :D

Prin
January 26th, 2007, 07:57 PM
Yeah, TO is good.:) :highfive:

Smiley14
January 26th, 2007, 08:26 PM
Oh awesome! I'm so excited! :)

I just ordered the Timberwolf and then I'm going to pick up some of the Nature's Valley medallions tomorrow. I have a huge freezer in my garage to keep them in. :) I have enough Canidae left to mix them and do a slow wean, so I'll do the trade off and then see how he does. :)

Thanks guys!!!!

technodoll
January 26th, 2007, 08:56 PM
that is wonderful news! :highfive: and boy that was FAST! :laughing: maybe you could post a "diet transition diary" for us to enjoy :o

Smiley14
January 26th, 2007, 09:04 PM
LOL! Yeah, I tend to be a fast decision-maker. :) And I only have about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks of Canidae left, so needed new food very soon. :o

I discovered that same site that sells the Timberwolf also sells Nature Valley, so I just ordered both together and did 2nd day delivery, so should get it by mid-next week. Perfect timing! :)

I'm trying the BlackForest Timberwolf and the venison Nature Valley since Timerwolf says in their description that they recommend mixing meats with it. And both should be a novel protein for Petey, so a good experiement for the gassy problem hopefully. :thumbs up


I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a good food switch now! I'll let you know how it goes! :D


ETA: Oops, just realized the online medallions I ordered are freeze-dried, not frozen, so guess I'll stop by that local pet store after all! They had the patties and the medallions there and were only 3 miles away. Cool!

And TD, I just saw your edit on your raw post. WOW! That is a huge difference in cost! :eek: If this mixed thing goes well, maybe I can convince my sister to make up some "patties" for me, LOL! Either that or get a really good, really long pair of gloves and a clothespin for the nose. :D Ugh, I don't know why raw meat grosses me out so much! But like you said, hopefully I would just get used to it. You should have seen me the one and only time I tried preparing a Thanksgiving turkey. I shoved my hand in there and pulled out something....and actually screamed in horror at this pink gooey...thing oozing between my fingers, threw it on the ground, and called my Dad over to come pick it up. :o Not even Billy would touch it, and I didn't have Petey back then. LOL!

Prin
January 26th, 2007, 09:26 PM
Good luck! :)

barkley21
January 27th, 2007, 10:39 AM
Smiley 14,
I just thought I'd throw in my :2cents:
I've heard salmon oil and probiotics mentioned in the thread but have you ever thought about trying a broad spectrum disgestive enzyme aprpoximatley 30 minutes before a meal? Many people have had success with them in eliminating gassiness.

Also, it's my understanding that your dog has no food allergies and that you're considering trying raw. If that is the case, you may want to start with chicken because that is usually what people start their dogs on when switching to raw. If your dog has an iron cast stomach then it doesn't matter, but if he's got a sensitive gut and a lot of gas, the chicken might be the easiest thing for him to digest and then you could slowly add new meat sources. I speak from personal experience on that one. Our pup was switched to raw approx 6 months ago and up until very recently the only raw meat he could easily digest was chicken and turkey. We've only recently started having great success with beef. We tried lamb and pork before but the gassiness was horrible so we backed off. I read that you bought the venison medallions so I wondered if that may be too rich as his introduction to raw. I know every dog is different, so it's just a suggestion.
Good luck with what ever you decide...I'm sure you'll find a food that he does well on :thumbs up

Scott_B
January 27th, 2007, 11:37 AM
Really, the biggest reason people start with chicken, its because its fairly cheep, usually always available and the bones are softer then beef or lamb. So in that regard, its a good choice for starting out. With the premade, I doubt it would make a difference. But again, every dog is different.

barkley21
January 27th, 2007, 01:38 PM
That's interesting Scott...I never considered that about the chicken. I read one of Wendy Volhard's books and she said that dogs who are just starting raw or dogs who are ill, or have recently been ill, should be fed chicken until their systems are up to snuff. Maybe it's because the bones are softer and easier to digest like you said :shrug:

Scott_B
January 27th, 2007, 02:19 PM
Yeah, most chickens that we as people eat and so, usually what the dogs get are very young and have soft bones, which are easy to digest. Also, for sick dogs, they say boil some chicken and feed with rice. Its a bland recipe thats supposed to be easy on their system.

Oh i have that Wendy Volhard book. Some interesting stuff in it! :p

Smiley14
January 27th, 2007, 09:09 PM
Thanks so much for the additional info! I discovered what I ordered online was actually freeze-dried, so today I went to a local pet store (A Mom and Pop shop I've never been to before) and found lots of Nature's Variety stuff! I did get the chicken medallions for now as that's also what the pet store guy recommended for first try. I am hoping to do a mixed feed of mostly kibble and supplemental raw, like the medallions. So we'll see how it goes!

Stupid question. :o I've had a few people here suggest a broad spectrum disgestive enzyme. Can someone give me a link or a few brand names. I'm not sure how to search for that. Thanks!

technodoll
January 27th, 2007, 10:34 PM
I've had a few people here suggest a broad spectrum disgestive enzyme. Can someone give me a link or a few brand names. I'm not sure how to search for that

the easiest way is to ask your pharmacist :o

the more complicated way is to read the bottle labels and look for:

Lipase: Is an enzyme that digests fats

Protease: Is a digestive enzyme that digests proteins

Amylase: Works great for digesting starches and carbohydrates

Cellulase: A digestive enzyme that digests fiber cellulose, aiding with malabsorption.

Lactase: This enzyme digests milk and milk by-products

gypsy_girl
January 28th, 2007, 10:59 AM
You can use anything that is for people just modify the dose for dogs.
You can also check out prozyme
http://www.prozymestore.com/about.htm

Good luck

rainbow
January 28th, 2007, 01:40 PM
Steph, I've been away from the board for a bit but just wanted to say good luck with Petey. :fingerscr Glad you're able to get TO....it's a great food and I hope it works out. :fingerscr

Smiley14
January 28th, 2007, 01:58 PM
Oh you guys are AWESOME! Thank you so much for the well wishes and for the information on the enzyme. I'll check out that link and/or talk to my pharmacist! Glad I asked since I had no idea it would be a human formula with a modified dose. So good to know! THANK YOU!!!! :grouphug:

coppperbelle
January 28th, 2007, 06:15 PM
I am a little late answering this thread but last week started feeding Canidae and neither dog has had gas. There is obviously something in it that is not agreeing with your dog and I think you are right to do a swtich.

Smiley14
February 1st, 2007, 08:01 PM
Well, still waiting for the TO to arrive in the mail, but so far the chicken medallions are a huge hit! :thumbs up Still gassy, but I'm assuming that's from the Canidae still. I won't know anything until I get the new food and get him switched! :)