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Murdering Canadian Pig Farmer..Sorry Canada

January 23rd, 2007, 10:11 AM
What a horrific story....

Canadian Man Accused of Serial Killings

NEW WESTMINSTER, British Columbia (Jan. 23) - Prosecutors say accused serial killer Robert William Pickton wanted to murder 50 women, and jurors are expected to watch videotaped interviews on Tuesday in which he acknowledges coming just one victim short of his macabre goal.
Pickton, 56, is charged with 26 counts of first-degree murder in what many consider the most sensational murder trial Canadians have ever faced. Most of his alleged victims were prostitutes and drug addicts who vanished from a drug-ridden Vancouver neighborhood in the 1990s. He has pleaded not guilty to the first six counts.

The other 20 counts of murder are to be heard in a separate trial.

Prosecutor Derrill Prevett opened the trial Monday, stunning the courtroom by saying Pickton had told investigators, including an undercover police officer planted in his jail cell, that he had slain 49 women.

"I was going to do one more and make it an even 50," Prevett quoted Pickton as telling investigators. "I made my own grave by being sloppy."

Pickton went on to describe himself as a mass murderer who deserved to be on death row, according to Prevett.

But defense lawyer Peter Ritchie told jurors Pickton did not kill or participate in the six murders he is on trial for now. He asked them to pay close attention to Pickton's demeanor when they watch the upcoming videotapes of his interrogations, in particular his level of sophistication. He did not address Pickton's alleged murder confessions.

"When you watch the videotapes, when you listen to them, pay close attention to what Mr. Pickton says and the manner in which he expresses himself," Ritchie told the jurors.

Ritchie also asked the jury to listen closely to details regarding Pickton's relationship with his brother, David.

Both brothers raised pigs on the family's 17-acre farm outside Vancouver, where investigators say they threw drunken raves with prostitutes and drugs. After Robert Pickton's arrest in February 2002, health officials issued a tainted meat advisory to neighbors who may have bought pork from his farm, concerned that it may have contained human remains.

Jurors had been warned that details of the case, until now under a publication ban in Canada, would be horrific. As details began to emerge Monday, some relatives of the victims began to cry and leave the courtroom.

After Pickton was arrested and the first traces of DNA from some missing women were allegedly found on the farm, the buildings were razed and the province spent an estimated $61 million to sift through soil there.

Prevett said the government would prove that Pickton murdered the six women and butchered their remains. As a successful pig farmer, he said, Pickton had the expertise and equipment to dispose of them.

The trial covers the murders of Sereena Abotsway, Mona Wilson, Andrea Joesbury, Brenda Wolfe, Georgina Papin and Marnie Frey.

When police first visited the farm in 2002 to investigate, they found two skulls in a bucket inside a freezer in Pickton's mobile home. DNA testing identified the skulls as belonging to Abotsway and Joesbury, two missing sex workers from an impoverished Vancouver neighborhood.

"The heads of the individuals had been cut in two, vertically," Prevett said. "With the skulls were left and right hands and the front parts of the left and right feet."

He said both skulls had wounds caused by 22-caliber bullets. Investigators found a Smith & Wesson rifle in Pickton's laundry room, sheathed in plastic with a sex toy attached. The toy had the combined DNA of Pickton and another victim, Wilson, Prevett said.

Prevett said one of Joesbury's earrings was found in the slaughterhouse. He said human bones were found mixed with manure and that part of Wolfe's jaw, with five teeth still attached, was found in a pig trough.

Pickton, clean-shaven with a bald crown and shoulder-length hair, sat emotionless in a specially built defendant's box surrounded by bulletproof glass. During pretrial hearings, he occasionally chuckled to himself or scribbled in a notebook.

If found guilty of more than 14 charges, Pickton would become the worst convicted killer in Canadian history, after Marc Lepine, who gunned down 14 women at the Ecole Polytechnic in Montreal in 1989 before shooting himself.

January 23rd, 2007, 11:34 AM
"I was going to do one more and make it an even 50," Prevett quoted Pickton as telling investigators. "I made my own grave by being sloppy."

Pickton went on to describe himself as a mass murderer who deserved to be on death row, according to Prevett.

Too bad he's getting a trial. What a waste of tax payer's money.:mad:

January 23rd, 2007, 11:52 AM
omg...tainted meat ... remains in a pig trough! :eek:

I can't believe they found this guy competent to stand trial...he sounds like a nut case...

January 23rd, 2007, 11:53 AM
Drives me nuts that 49 women went missing before anyone took action. He could have been stopped such a long time ago.

January 23rd, 2007, 12:04 PM
Drives me nuts that 49 women went missing before anyone took action. He could have been stopped such a long time ago.

Yep, because they were prostitutes. :sad: It shouldn't have been a factor. :mad:

January 23rd, 2007, 12:21 PM
They said that this guy was first investigated back in 2002, I think. Had any of you heard anything on the news about this monster back then? What a real sicko! He looks crazy too. I wish I could show you his picture. It's on the front page of AOL if any of you have it. If you can find a picture of him, he looks like a real freak. :mad:

P.S. And I LOVE bacon...don't know if I could ever stomach it again. THANKS FREAK!! :frustrated:

January 23rd, 2007, 12:35 PM
Here's his picture...he looks evil as hell..

January 23rd, 2007, 02:22 PM
Sick sick man!:mad:
I remember hearing about some one feeding people to pigs a while back ( more detailed that but you catch my drift) could have been on a movie though.

January 23rd, 2007, 02:49 PM
I don't think he's sick, I think he's evil, even possessed. But we have to go through this trial, in a way for our own sanity, to correct for his insanity, so casually and violently expressed. This guy's headed for Paul Bernardo-land, complete isolation for the rest of his life. We may quibble about paying for even his smallest comfort (such as food lol) but we abolished the death penalty for the good of everyone, and must stick to it.

I believe he was actually selling his pork. It is too horrible to imagine.

January 23rd, 2007, 03:31 PM
We have so few murders in Canada (compared to our neighbour the USA) , let alone mass murders and serial killers that they tend to make front-page news ~ as has Mr. Pickton every day since his arrest.

The interesting thing about Canada is how it reports it's news. Talk shows, newspapers and other media outlets are now having an "on-air" debate about how much detail to report. I think this differentiates us greatly from "the U.S.", which has a far higher murder and violent crime rate and as a result may be more inured to reports of murder and more accustomed to lurid detail. We do not have the same level of gang, mob, individual violent crime in Canada and we tend to not be "Jerry Springer"-ish, if you will.

(and please note : I know that I've made a broad-brush statement which by no means reflects all of it's citizens ~ having lived or stayed in most of the U.S. I know fully well that the United States of America is a deeply diverse culture)

January 23rd, 2007, 03:37 PM
Yeah I remember hearing about it several years ago. It's taken this long to compile all of the evidence. They had to go over his farm with a fine toothed comb, they dug up every inch of ground to look for remains.

It's sad how when these women went missing no one seemed to care, it was just another of east end Vancouver's scum of the earth gone missing. And now that the trial is starting, people are acting like they care about these women, and it's such a huge loss. It's all very hypocritical. If anyone cared about these women, they would have made sure nothing happened to them in the first place.

January 23rd, 2007, 03:40 PM
I live in Vancouver so this sicko has been front and center since they first arrested him in 2002. They spent 1.5 years sifting through every piece of dirt on the "farm" for remains and evidence. I was watching the news on Monday (first day of trial) and felt physically ill. Most of the details have been under a media ban prior to the trial so we haven't heard most of the gruesome details. I will be doing my best to avoid most media coverage in the next year or so that the trial is expected to take.

January 23rd, 2007, 03:42 PM
Such "people" used to be sent to Devil's Island, then to Australia, locked up on Alcatraz ... two of those places are museums and the third a nice country with nice people. Where COULD we throw such trash away? I know, Antarctica! Or more extreme, the moon!

January 23rd, 2007, 03:50 PM
It's sad how when these women went missing no one seemed to care, it was just another of east end Vancouver's scum of the earth gone missing. And now that the trial is starting, people are acting like they care about these women, and it's such a huge loss. It's all very hypocritical. If anyone cared about these women, they would have made sure nothing happened to them in the first place.

I think that is a bit of an over-generalization. The local police do admit that they screwed up and did not react fast enough but the "missing women's task force" was actually initiated in May 1999. Unfortunately the nature of the area (downtown east side) is extremely transient which serial killers/predators count on when choosing their victims. Many efforts are made to try to improve this area but as a recent example Harper has withdrawn the funding for the injection clinics which all of the community interest groups/leaders have said is making a difference. For every step forward there is another back it seems.

January 23rd, 2007, 04:15 PM
I can't even read the article posted because I know I'll get too upset. I could hardly eat or sleep for about three days after the first time I stumbled across the story. One of the mother's has waged a law suit against the police force because it took them so long to start taking the case seriously.

I think no efforts were made originally because most of the woman disappearing were prostitutes and battling drug addictions. It's just so horrible, some were very young and even had children.

I've heard it's not likely the meat that had remains in it made it to the market, apparently the stuff that did mostly went out to friends and family.

January 23rd, 2007, 04:18 PM
If anyone cared about these women, they would have made sure nothing happened to them in the first place.That cannot be stressed enough.

January 23rd, 2007, 04:33 PM
Why do you think that they didn't react fast enough? Sure they can say that now to try to cover their asses, but we all know when it comes to prostitues, drug addicts and the homeless the police don't have them very high on their list of priorities. And the fact that Harper rescinded the funding for the safe injection clinics is even more proof that goverment treats people like that as second class citizens, to be swept under the carpet. How on earth does a man murder that many women without the police taking notice sooner? I know. They didn't care, otherwise 26 we know of for sure and possibly a total of 49 women would still be alive. I may be over-generalizing, but I think for the most part (social workers, etc...excluded perhaps) people prefer not to see these types of people and it's not until something really horrible happens that people react with astonishment and then feel sorry for the victims. It's just too bad that something wasn't felt for these women before their lives got to the point that they could be pegged off so easily by such a sicko.

I don't know what would be the best thing, but legalizing and regulating prostitution might be a start. Maybe keep these women safer.

January 23rd, 2007, 05:05 PM
social workers, etc...excluded perhaps Maybe a few good ones. For the most part the ones i've had contact with come from nice homes and have had nice educations and are very cold or very deluded about the reality of their jobs. Safe injection sites and raising the welfare rates from that big $510. or what is it now $520? would help. You need at least $1300 to survive. That's not even thrive that is bare minimum living requirements. Many of these woman come from families that don't care to help them or are unable. A huge number were abused as children and born into poverty with disabilities of all sorts. But we forget that's their fault right? That's what most of the social worker's and counsellors will have them believe. It's true most people don't give a damn and haven't got the faintest idea or interest of how they might be able to help. A start would be providing people with decent shelter and enough food to be healthy. Prohibition is also adding to the problem. The police are out there busting and throwing in jail sick people who have no dignity left and no money and have found some junk that is tainted with poisen or from a dirty needle to escape their misery for just a few hours.

Golden Girls
January 24th, 2007, 05:02 PM
This is really scary. I'm not sure I'll be able to read about this trial. I can't imagine all the poor families having to endure such nighmarish stuff.

January 24th, 2007, 06:27 PM
There is in fact any number of agencies involved in helping women get out of prostitution, but they don't have many takers. The number one reason is drug addiction, which rules their lives. How to maintain a habit on welfare or even disability?

When I first moved to this neighbourhood, the parks were full of syringes and discarded condoms and women walking home from work were accosted in broad daylight. One crazy project had social workers actually trailing prostitutes, offering to help, but they were literally laughed off and accused of chasing away prospective clients. Then the police began to stake out the park at night and the junkies drifted off to other, less scrutinized neighbourhoods. Problem solved? Only for the people living here.

A proposed red-light district, where there would be a constant police presence and proper housing, help getting off drugs, etc. has been rejected as 'too controlling' by the sex workers themselves. Who knows if the public would have accepted even that degree of 'reasonable accommodation'.

I agree that when police were told, anecdotally, that women were going missing from the Lower East Side, they dragged their feet. But I don't think anyone has a clue how to make these women's lives any safer. How?

January 24th, 2007, 06:42 PM
I can offer many suggestions of how to make their lives safer. Unfortunately much of what I have to say will be taken as offensive, so I won't even bother. I only have some of the answers. Much of it is prevention and if anyone cared about these people in the first place they wouldn't be where they are now.

January 24th, 2007, 07:30 PM
The farm is about 20 minutes from my house. I remember back when they first started investigating the farm, it was a bit of a madhouse around here. I'm not sure if he's a psychopath or a sociopath, but he's something for sure.

I for one, can't believe it's still going on (the trials and whatnot).

January 25th, 2007, 11:29 AM
Wow Spirit..that's WAY too close for comfort for me!

January 25th, 2007, 07:13 PM
49 reasons to bring back the death penalty to Canada. :yell:

January 25th, 2007, 09:05 PM
I really hate the media circus :frustrated:

Rick C
January 26th, 2007, 09:54 AM
Just a general comment . . . . .

Saying they wouldn't be in prostitution if someone cared about them or that this wouldn't have happened to them if someone cared about them is pretty simplistic.

Prostitution is famously called "the world's oldest profession" and has been around for millennia . . . . . it can't be that survivable as an occupation just because "nobody cared about them."

There are probably tens of millions of prostitutes in today's global population closing in on 7 billion, all leading a fairly high risk lifestyle for various motivations.

I'm not blaming the victims . . . . but it must be said they typically put themselves in a high risk situation where questionable or disturbed individuals can prey on them more easily and without accountability than would be the case for women working in "normal" occupations.

The whole thing is pretty sad . . . . but prostitution is like a cockroach, impossible to kill as we've seen through history.

As such, we'll probably continue to see these kinds of predators being successful in targetting this occupation in the future.

Rick C

January 26th, 2007, 12:15 PM
I agree with Frenchie, waste of tax payers money.

January 27th, 2007, 06:31 PM
I also heard that Wiily and his brother Dave hosted parties in a building close to their farm. Willy and his girlfriend (who is also guilty and should be charged IMO) used to go to the downtown eastside to "invite" prostitutes to come with them. I also heard that there were alot of so-called upper society people (like lawyers, judges, etc.) that attended these parties. :shrug:

January 27th, 2007, 11:11 PM
It is a sad and horrific case,if he is the one,breaks my heart about the women he attacked and killed.The local paper said some of his women friends knew,and helped him all the while blackmailing him

I do feel prostitutes do not get a fair shake with police.

It reminds me of the Green River killer in the US.How long was he loose killing women,over 20 years I think?