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Losing a debate needlessly

erykah1310
January 15th, 2007, 02:03 AM
I have to find "PROOF" real proof that dogs that eat chows without the ''bad'' ingredients are healthier than ones eating chows with them, I want to see a study where similar dogs were fed different diets and other wise had identical care and the outcomes of it.
Any links?

Prin
January 15th, 2007, 02:07 AM
lol I don't think there are any.:o The folks with the money are the "bad ones". But I'll try to find some tomorrow...

Prin
January 15th, 2007, 02:14 AM
Here's one that says that the AAFCO's standards are too low from a harvard law student... More of a paper than an article though.....
http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/784/Patrick06.html

Scott_B
January 15th, 2007, 04:47 AM
Thats easy..its called common sense! The only report ya need :thumbs up

Mr.Lab
January 15th, 2007, 06:30 AM
Does this help?

http://www.gooddogmagazine.com/dogfoodcosts.htm

Cheers

vfrohloff
January 15th, 2007, 08:09 AM
Thats easy..its called common sense! The only report ya need :thumbs up

I agree. Would you feed your kids Kraft Dinner at every meal, or would you prefer they eat foods with more nutrients?

erykah1310
January 15th, 2007, 02:52 PM
I think i have stumped my oponent.... :D I admitted there hasnt been a study like is being asked of me. And in turn asked for their reasons behind a list of crappy useless ingredients in dog food being acceptable and nutritious. NO answer as of yet!:D

4thedogs
January 15th, 2007, 03:12 PM
You probably won't find one because there are too many variables that you can't control. Even if it were the same litter raised by the same family and had everything done the same except for the type of food.

All you can guess is that maybe, just maybe from all we now know about nutrition that feeding foods with better ingredients will help a dogs health throughout their life. Some things that we can make a better guess on is what you can physically see with dental care, growth, coat, weight.

dogcatharmony
January 15th, 2007, 03:50 PM
i am a little confused too about "good' food vs "bad" food. I don't mean to start an argument or anything, in a way it is just something that has puzzled me for years.
When I was small our dog Sammy ate Gaines Burger ( looked like red plastic ground hamburger shaped into hamburger patties, some had little cheese chunks)and milk bones. He was allowed table scraps every weekend, usually the end of a pot of stew or soup. He was very well excersiced. He was not over weight, and he died of natural causes at 18 years old. I don't know if my parents had him neutered, that was a long time ago(1970"s).

Now days all you hear about is how the kibble we are feeding our animals is killing them. Are all these useless chemicals added to the food just recently or did they have it in them thirty some years ago? How come animals seem to be so more allergy prone now??

Like i said, it is just something that puzzles me.

technodoll
January 15th, 2007, 03:57 PM
OK think of the George Burns analogy. He smoked, he drank, he partied and lived to a very ripe old age without any major ill effects. Statistically, he should have died many years younger than he did, or suffered cancer, alzheimer's, or any other debilitating disease brought on by his life-style. Yet, he didn't. That doesn't mean everyone should do what he did :eek: Maybe he got lucky in the russian roulette game of life, maybe he inherited some mean kick-arse genetics. BUT for the majority of folks this is not the case. You smoke, you drink, you eat badly, etc: you die young, you suffer from cancer, diabetes, arthritis, strokes, etc etc.

Same for dogs. Not because that one dog you knew who ate toxic chemicals all his life died at age 18 means that other dogs would have had the same fate. How many dogs do you know, today, who live that long? and if they do, what are their physical states? blind? incontinent? arthritic? crippled?

Some cases just defy logic :shrug: but you still have to look at the statistics, the averages, and dose it all out with common sense ;)

erykah1310
January 15th, 2007, 04:00 PM
I understand what you are saying, i too am a bit confused on why now more and more dogs are so sensitive to foods and that certain things that were alright before are now deemed "bad" for them.
I have wondered that too. Daily here it seems that all these "issues" with our pets are coming up and some of the things i read about on here I didnt even know existed for dogs. makes me always wonder how you hear of ( or know of) old farm dogs back in the day who never ate, x or y and lived a long healthy life, mean while we read about dogs with intolerances to food that are quite severe.

Then again, I also wonder how and when the peanut became the most dangerous food for kids too??? Perhaps it all is linked together ... generations upon generation eating foods that either were too high in x or contained y at all. :shrug:

technodoll
January 15th, 2007, 04:04 PM
erykah you just hit the nail on the head. generations are getting weaker (animals and humans) with years of bad nutrition, sedentary lifestyles, pollution, you name it. We, and our pets, are not the strong vikings and farmers we used to be, working hard to live off the land that fed us well :shrug:

dogcatharmony
January 15th, 2007, 07:38 PM
i totally agree with you on that one erykah. Everything has become so overprocessed that it is killing all of us and the animals.

erykah1310
January 15th, 2007, 10:09 PM
LOL :laughing: Iwas banned!!!!! :laughing:

technodoll
January 15th, 2007, 10:27 PM
banned from what?? erykah what did you do? LOL LOL :eek:

erykah1310
January 15th, 2007, 10:41 PM
It was on another forum ( crappy one thats for sure) and i challenged the "Prin" of that forum ( but not nearly as knowledgable as our Prin) regarding dog foods, after he challenged me, wanting hardcore studies as proof but wanted nothing to do with ingredient discussion ( ummmm:confused: is it just me or is the biggest thing with dog food and results ingredients:shrug: ) anywho, raw is not allowed to be discussed there and apparently neither is independant though!
So i signed on to see if i had a reply to my " challenge" and i was http://foolstown.com/sm/ban.gif:laughing: OMD... im gonna lose sleep for sure now. :rolleyes:

technodoll
January 15th, 2007, 10:43 PM
ah well... looks like you didn't lose anything at all, erykah... they're the ones who have to live in their dark little caves :shrug: i pity their dogs though, they'll never get a chance at better nutrition apparently.

rainbow
January 16th, 2007, 10:43 PM
Or, you could join again with a different user name. :evil:

technodoll
January 16th, 2007, 10:55 PM
he he! i like rainbow's machavielic plan :evil:

erykah1310
January 17th, 2007, 12:25 AM
I tried but i guess my IP number has been blocked!!!!!! :laughing:

Prin
January 17th, 2007, 12:44 AM
The "Prin" eh? I would hope I'm more open-minded and tolerant than that...:eek::fingerscr :fingerscr :pray: :fingerscr :fingerscr :footinmouth:

erykah1310
January 17th, 2007, 12:49 AM
Yup you are trust me... there was no point in bothering with this guy....he was just... closed minded and lived his life by the Guide dog association. what they said was GOLD!
Fool, thats all i can really say:rolleyes:

OntarioGreys
January 18th, 2007, 05:28 PM
i am a little confused too about "good' food vs "bad" food. I don't mean to start an argument or anything, in a way it is just something that has puzzled me for years.
When I was small our dog Sammy ate Gaines Burger ( looked like red plastic ground hamburger shaped into hamburger patties, some had little cheese chunks)and milk bones. He was allowed table scraps every weekend, usually the end of a pot of stew or soup. He was very well excersiced. He was not over weight, and he died of natural causes at 18 years old. I don't know if my parents had him neutered, that was a long time ago(1970"s).

Now days all you hear about is how the kibble we are feeding our animals is killing them. Are all these useless chemicals added to the food just recently or did they have it in them thirty some years ago? How come animals seem to be so more allergy prone now??

Like i said, it is just something that puzzles me.

dog foods used contained more real meat and whole grains but then companies like nestle bought them out and start replacing ingredients with left over waste from human food processing , do you think anybody would have thought to put peanut shells in a dog food back then when all they were producing was petfood only, when other dogfood companies starting losing sales because they could not produce dog food as cheaply they also start buying leftover residue from human procesing start using 3d meats as well to continually reduce their cost to manufacture, because they were sick dying and diseased animals many would have been on antibiotics, meds, and euthanasia drugs, which meant dogs because they were eating these animals were also ingesting these meds which would have weakened their immune system leaving them prone to illness or disease, some of the cheapest food contains deadstock purchased through rendering companies , like roadkill and deadstock on farms off already in a state of decomposition before picked up.

So the alpo of 30 or 40 years ago is nothing like the one sold today

tully
January 21st, 2007, 08:16 PM
I think diet is one part of a whole. I think if you have a really healthy dog with no real physical issues diet might not be as paramount to an owner than lets say an owner that has an animal with a lot of physical issues. This is not to say that a high quality dog/cat food is not important for all our animals because it is.
I believe that over breeding has caused a lot of problems in the dog arena anyway. Dogs and fish are my main pets. I don't know that much about other animals.
We see the evolution of pet care and vet care and this is a great thing. We are now realizing that our animals are over vaccinated and before now we fed less than human grade food. Now, we are educated and becoming more aware of the importance of the food we feed our animals and how we vaccinate them. The door is opening wide for this new way of thinking about health for both pets and selves.
I am a huge advocate of organic farming. Obviously, if I bring that to the table for my family, I will want to do the same for my animals. I had a Western Vet who I really liked but he was not able to serve my needs. When I wanted to try differnt avenues then medication for my dog, I had to go find a vet that spoke my same language. Luckily, I live in an area where alternative medicine, and organic food stores are abundant.
My point is, I think it can be confusing and their are a lot of choices out there. I too remember feeding our dog, when I was growing up, canned food and kibble from the grocery store. She lived to the ripe old age of 18. She was also a mutt and frankly I think mutts are notoriously healthier. That is my opinion.
There is also the price factor and some people just can not afford top quality dog food. There are high quality foods that are less expensive but can still be too much for some to afford. I think now that this is becoming the norm more manufacturers will get on the band wagon. Hopefully, this will bring some of those prices down. I am glad I have a lot of options for my pets today and so lucky to be here at this time.