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Pet Containment Systems

Luvsthelabs
January 11th, 2007, 03:01 AM
Hello everyone. I'm new so I'm sorry if this topic has already been discussed but I have a few questions.

Does anyone have a wireless fence containment system? What are your thoughts? I have been looking into getting one for a while. It seems like everyone I talk to has a different opinion on them, the majority of them being very negative. I did some research and found out that if the dog runs through the fence and leaves the yard, they get punished on the way out, of course, but they also get punished on the way back in. This seems like it would be confusing for my dog. I also think that it would be confusing for my dog when I want to turn off the fence and take my dog out of the yard. How would he know that he’s not going to get a stimulation when he crosses the line? Does anyone have any experience?

The other day my trainer told me about a new system that he is going to be testing. It is a reward recall containment system. Apparently the dog wears a voice collar that says the word “come” when he gets close to the boundary and it calls him to a feeder that gives him a treat. And it recognizes when the dog goes out of the yard and will not stimulate him on the way in. I think it has optional stimulation mode or no stimulation. Has anyone heard about a system like this? This system seems like it would be easier to train my dog because I would have to train him to come to the feeder instead of train him on the boundary of my yard. It also seems like it would be less confusing for my dog. He would get a stimulation only if he didn’t obey the word come (but if he’s getting a treat, why wouldn’t he come?) instead of getting a stimulation by going in an area of his own yard. I am eager to find out the results of my trainers testing, but just wanted to find out if anyone has an opinion on these systems.

Prin
January 11th, 2007, 03:03 AM
I've never heard of the voice system, but from what I know from people with electric fences is if the dog wants to cross it, it will, regardless of the consequences. :shrug:

twisten
January 11th, 2007, 02:16 PM
I only know of 1 person who uses the wireless containment system for a rough collie. The dog learned the boundaries right away and they say they haven't had any problems with him leaving their yard. I'm thinking of installing one here in the spring. Even though we're on an acreage we're only 1/2 a mile out of a small town and I don't want our GSD heading there. So far she's been good and has never left but I don't know what will happen when spring comes and its warmer. Especially if she hears other dogs and children.

dogcatharmony
January 11th, 2007, 03:36 PM
My neighbour has a wireless containment barrier for her dog. He is a big dog and it does not stop him from fleeing the yard. If he sees something he wants he is gone, the shock he gets doesnt even faze him. They have just gone back to tieing him up, said it was a waste of money.

PetFriendly
January 11th, 2007, 05:16 PM
I've seen it used in three different places. In two cases, the dogs weren't properly exercised and would bolt if a reason presented itself. In the other case, it was two dogs that were contained, they were very well trained, very well exercised and generally didn't have a reason to leave.

The dog will learn that the 'fence' collar means its staying in the yard. Usually I think these collars are only put on the dog when its going outside.

joeysmama
January 11th, 2007, 06:54 PM
Our neighbors have one for their small dog. She's a very sweet little thing and Cooper loves to say hello when she's out. And she gets pretty happy to see him--and us. She cries when we leave.

My problem with it is the way it's used. This poor little girl is out there by herself for too long. She's obviously lonely. And it would be very easy for us to take her if we wanted to. They don't even notice or check when we're on their property with our dog, who could be aggressive or ill for all they know.

Also we have a lot of animals around here that would be a threat to a small dog. Bears, coyotes, and foxes are seen in peoples yards pretty regularly.

So I guess I would say that if you know you won't abuse it by leaving the dog unattended for long periods it could be a good safety net. The shock part of it bothers me though. :shrug:

Ed U KayShawn
January 11th, 2007, 09:39 PM
i sooo had to reply to this thread!! I have 2 big dogs one is a pitmix and the the other is a boxer mix. We have close to 2 acres and we installed the underground pet containment system. We followed the dvd and trained them for the 3 weeks they recommend. I personally was so skeptical that the system would not work but to my surprise it is great. My dogs know their boundaries and never do we have any problems, they do not test the system. We have a next door neighbour with a yellow lab and horses and from time to time they run and bark but stop well before the fence line. We did leave our flags up a little longer than recommended but that was just to ensure that they knew the boundaries. It is great because now my dogs can run and be free, however, we don't leave them out unattended. I think they are great and the fence is great too! However do your homework, there are several out there don't be fooled by getting a cheap system make sure one has adjustable levels for different dogs etc. & don't skimp on the installation process either even though it is a bit taxing it to me is well worth it. Be sure to call the 800 number on the boxes too before you buy one and ask them all your questions they should be happy to help.

Smiley14
January 11th, 2007, 10:40 PM
I think you're going to get mixed reactions no matter what because it really does vary with every dog.

I know several people who use an invisible fence/underground pet containment system that love them and between them all, they have every size and temperment of dogs you can imagine.

So I tried it last spring/summer, but had disasterous results. I paid $2,100 for a state-of-the-art guaranteed or your money back system. I worked with their trainers for 7 months with my dog running right through no matter how much boundary training/reward training/verbal beep warnings/8 foot wide shock system/three different collar designs before they finally admitted it wasn't working. And then they tell me the money back excludes training fees and only gave me back $1400 of my $2100! That was NOT on the contract anywhere by the way. My fault for not questioning their policies better. And this was from the biggest and most reputable company in my state.

As far as your dog leaving, yes, you can set shock levels on the collar, on the digital line running underground, as well as the range of the line, from 2 ft to 8 ft. I always tested the shock level on msyelf first (inside palm) to make sure it wasn't too painful and even the high settings are definitely noticeable, but not painful. It's more about using it to teach boundary training. And my dog has passed several training courses, so he knew perfectuly well what we wanted from him. He just didn't care. The lure of running free was more exciting to him. I wasted hundreds of dollars, hours of time, and more embarrassing moments witnessed by the neighbors chasing after him than I care to admit. (Keep in mind, every time they run through, you have to catch them!)

The idea with the collar is that you remove it for walks and you don't take them for walks over the boundary for the first month. You get in your car, drive out of the driveway and out of boundary range, then go for the walk. If they run off, you chase after and catch them, remove the collar, bring them back into the yard, and put the coillar back on. And if you don't watch the trainers VERY closely, they will then try to drag the dog back and forth over the boundary line after an escape so they get shocked over and over again as a "lesson." :frustrated: Again, it's not painful perse, but neither is it pleasant. And when I refused to let them do this, they said I wasn't being cooperative with their training.

So it really does depend on every dog and probably every company as well. Because I know so many people that love it, I still believe they're worth a try. But I would ask details about their refund policies before signing anything so you don't get hosed like I did. I would also ask detailed questions about their training methods and schedule them so you are present for every single one. I would not recommend them if you have a runner like me.

Hope that helps!

twisten
January 12th, 2007, 01:17 PM
I totally agree that it depends a lot on the dog as to the success of this containment system. We used to have a husky/wolf cross that would run away every chance he got and I know just by his personality that this system would not have worked for him. He was totally harmless and completely loveable but he wanted to be visiting with people, any people,all the time. The whole time we had him he never growled or barked at anyone but people were scared of him because of the way he looked with his breeding.

Luvsthelabs
January 23rd, 2007, 01:41 AM
Thank you for your comments. Over the last week my trainer has been testing this new reward containment system. It was amazing!

It is more like a recall system than a containment system. It consists of a treat feeder located in a central area and a voice collar mounted on the dog. It is mostly reward training but has an optional static discomfort for users that use discomfort training.



The dog is condition to the word “come” from the voice collar. The dog learns to return to the feeder on command “come” and is reinforced with a treat. The training starts by first training the dog to do simple commands like sit and lay down and come. Each time the dog performs these behaviours correctly, you push a button and the collar calls the dog to the feeder with the word "come" and the feeder gives the dog a treat. Over time the dog is conditioned and the behavior becomes habit.



The feeder can be used inside or outside and can be used in wireless mode or wired mode. So it's portable and you can take it camping or to a friends house.



I was very skeptical. But then I saw my 12 week old pointer puppy and his 10 year old lab being trained on it.



It was impressive. Both dogs totally understood the commands. The trainer had the following feedback.



* The learning of the recall command both on the older dog and puppy took three 10-minute sessions. It then took him another 10 times with the lab to train him on distractions like humans or dogs. He did use a leash to help reinforce the behavior with the lab on distractions.
* The trainer was confident that the system could be as effectively as a well-trained dog on the command come. Well-trained dogs take time to turn commands into habits.
* He has experience with the optional stimulation mode. Basically an adjustable static e-collar. The dog learns to avoid the discomfort by recalling faster. The dog is always reinforced with a treat on completion of the recall. The trainer said this was very effective because the dog first understood what the command was, and both reward and discomfort enforcement was used. However, he felt that discomfort really was not needed if the training continued with more repetitions of reward training only. He said it is really no different than any other type of non-punishment training.
* He agreed with the manufactures advantages over conventional punishment only systems.
o Dogs loved the system and got very excited when it came time to train them. It was like a game.
o Fast to train
o 90% of training can be done in the house
o Totally portable, no retraining for different locations inside or outside because the dog is responding to a command not learning a physical boundary.
o There are no side effects like you get in conventional systems (such as aggression and nervousness) because it does not use continued discomfort to teach an alternate behavior.
o Will not shock your dog if it comes back the yard.
o Will try three times to recall the dog if he goes out of the boundary.
o The dog will not get shocked if he stays in the middle of the boundary zone.
o If used in reward/discomfort mode it is much more effective than conventional containment systems.
o Can be used to reward train lots of other behaviors like sit, heel, come, down, etc.



* The trainer had some concerns like dogs would learn to activate the system to get a treat. This was overcome by a control that did not feed the dog every time. The trainer felt the best way to use the system was to feed your dog his meals from the system.

Needless to say I'm excited to see how my dog progresses with this system, but so far so great! My puppy is only 12 weeks old and he comes, sits, lays down, and goes to his bed. All without any punishment.

Smiley14
January 23rd, 2007, 10:14 PM
That's great to hear it's working so well for you! Hope you continue to see good results!

I could see this being effective indoors, but would do diddly-squat for me outdoors. The dog would have to be treats motivated first of all, which Petey is, but only if there are no other distractions. Add in people or the wide outdoors, and he could care less about treats. We actually tried a similar system with my invisible fence, as part of the boundary training/reward-based training, but it did absolutely nothing for him. So again, I think it would purely depend on the dog and how he's motivated.

But I am very happy to hear you're having good results with your puppy! :thumbs up