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All Ontario Residents- Please read

Colubridz
January 10th, 2007, 01:16 PM
As though dog owners have not been put through enough hell in the last year with a brash new move towards ignorant, closed minded legislation, which detailed the complete prohibitation of owning, breeding, transferring, importing, fighting or abandoning pit bulls.The definition taken from the bill itself lists of what a pit bull is includes; "pit bull terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, American pit bull terrier or a dog that shares the physical characteristics with any of the above."

This was an outrage to all responsible dog owners as it is clearly the goverments way of escaping dealing with the real issue of dog attacks and through their unwillingness to recognize the real problem when the ban came into effect, thousands of families in the greater toronto area alone along with the many more across the provience were forced to muzzel their dogs in public merely because their dogs shared the same characteristics with a few bad seeds who were raised and socialized improperly by some very stupid owners.

Now we seem to be at risk again.

On New years eve day a terrible tradegy occured when a very irresponsible owner left his two rottiwielers unattended in his back yard and they escaped and attacked a young boy. The boy I can thankfully say survived and is recovering though obviously it will take a very long time for his and his family to recover through this nightmare.

Full story here

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NAS...=1014656511815

It would be convient to say clearly this tradgedy occured because of someones two clearly "vicious" dogs. As dog people we know this is not the whole story and can recognize that two real failings occured here, one the goverments refusal to recognize and deal with the issue of irresponsible owners and put in place real legislation to protect it's citizens and instead simply banning dogs which look dangerous has occured yet another innocent life to be ruined.

The second failing clearly falls into the hands of the owner who moronically decided he did not need to have a secure fence while keeping two very large and powerful dogs.

Unfortunatly if both parties had lived up to their responsibilities I am very confident this tradgedy and all future dog attacks could and can be prevented.

As one would expect news like this, in a trigger happy provience on BSL is not good and I fear we are once again on the verge of seeing the dogs we love being stripped of their comforts and forced to be muzzled in public, taken out of therapy dog programs and be feared where ever they go.

The Hamiliton Spectator, the city in which the attack occured has already started rallying anger in the local community by pushing for another breed ban.


Here is a very sensational piece of writting on the follow up after the attack

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NAS...=1014656511815

Now the scary part, since the story was published their have been rumors that some mp's are pushing for a new BSL list which would include Rotti's, German Shepherds, Dobbermans and Akita's. For those who may be closed minded towards Pittie's or any of the breeds listed above, please take a miniute to realise that BSL is contagious, in most states that banned Pitties, Rottie's, Shepherds, Chow Chow's, Dobbermans and Mastiffs were usually not far behind and if we allow this type of descrimination to continue it will only be a matter of time before your beloved breed shows up on the list. We need to take action now and stand up against parliment to make our opinons very clear, we did not agree with the first breed ban but despite almost 80% opposition to it from the public, they passed it.

Since the ban we have seen cases throughout Canada showing other breeds attacking, including a german Shepherd cross,rotti and 3 stray dogs who attacked and killed a young boy in Edmonton.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/n...b01ea0&k=81217

This should only further illustrate what responsible dog owners have said all along, that ANY breed can attack and I strongly believe that if we want to be able to walk our dogs freely outside without having them muzzled like convicts then it is time to voice our opinions.

Here are letters to the editor that were published a few days ago in the Hamilton Spectator, by angry citizens who are pushing for more breed bans.

http://thespec.typepad.com/specthrea....html#comments

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NAS...=1112876262536

Their was one letter from a concerned dog owner that was published as well

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NAS...=1112188062581

With another election around the corner I am truely concerned for the future of Rotti's in our provience as well as Shepherds, Dob's, Akita's and eventually the future of everyones dog.

When you look in European countries who started traditionally by banning the easy scapegoats such as pitties, dobs and rotties have since in some cases added up to 93 breeds that are restircted and illegal to own.

Please do not take the threat of BSL lightly if you are blessed enough to own a less commonly discriminated against breed such as labs or goldens keep in mind that the more dogs we allow them to ban the closer we come to an eventual complete dog ban.

I am here to express my deep concern for an impending Rotti ban which I fear is just around the corner and am asking ALL Ontario citizens to please write your mps, phone your mps, write in to your local newspapers and express your position on how this terrible tradgedy of the almost death of a young boy could of been prevented if the goverment would start taking irresponsible owners more seriously.

5 things which I would like us to propse and push for in the wake of BSL are as followed..

-The denocuation of Bill C-32 which was enacted on Augest 25th, 2006 which effectively made it illegal to own, breed or import pitbulls and pitbull like dogs ( such as mastiffs), as it is unconstituional and ineffective at protecting society from poorly trained and aggressive dogs.

- A mandatory Spay/ Neuter Law which can greatly reduce levels of aggression in both female and male dogs, avoiding unwanted litters and bad breeding which can create aggressive dogs. For registered kennels they should be allowed to continue opperations but buy some type of liscence which needs to be reunewed yearly. Again this would effectively cut down on the amount of BYB's and should effectively end puppy mills as to meet the lisence requirments you should need to prove a standard of care for your animals.

- Harder penalities for irresponsible dog owners and a zero tolerance policy. For examply if your dog escapes from your yard their should be heavy fines and if it happens again their should be the option of your dogs being confienscated and placed in rescue groups and your privillage to own dogs stripped for a period of time. Also if your dog bites someone YOU should be held accountable and be tried for assault in addition their should be the option for the judge to strip your right own dogs depending on the circumstances of the bite and so on.

-Stiffer penalties for anyone caught walking their dog offlesh in an urban zone

-Making obidence classes mandatory for all first time dog owners

I would appricate any other suggestions or changes made to those above propsals but If we could all come togther as a community, decide a way to make some realistic legislation that would work to make our communities safer from irresponsible owners and then start flooding media outlets and mps with our suggestions I think changes can occur.

Below I will list information about how to contact different newspapers, tv stations, radio stations and how to find and contact your local mp for your area.

Please if you are going to write or call any of the above try and be respectful, calm and know your facts. A good guide of things to discuss or write about would be

1) Discuss your disapproval of Bill 132 and how it has been ineffective
2) Discuss possible remedies such as the few I brainstormed alone and any other members may add
3) Your concern about a possible Rotti, GSD, Akita and Dob ban and why it is not effective

I'd like to use this thread as a sort of base where we can exhange ideas, post about what everyone is doing, post possible ralley's or protest down the road if we decide to go in that option and so we can stay informed and updated on the situation.

Colubridz
January 10th, 2007, 01:17 PM
Below are Contact information

CTV News Toronto- Mailing Address

P.O. Box 9, Station 'O,'
Scarborough Ontario
Canada
M4A 2M9

Global News- E-mail address

newstips@globaltv.com

Global News- Mailing Address

81 Barber Greene Road
Toronto, ON M3C 2A2
Tel: (416) 446-5311

City News- You can call them or write them with concerns about BSL and it's ineffectiveness

MAILING ADDRESS

299 Queen St. West
Toronto, Ontario
M5V 2Z5

PHONE: (416) 591-5757

FAX: (416) 593-6397

E-mail address

news@citynews.ca

You can find your local Mp and their contact information on this site

http://olaap.ontla.on.ca/mpp/daCurMbr.do?locale=en

I am going to cross post this on as many dog forums as possible and would please ask everyone else to do the same. I will be getting in touch with stoptheban.ca to see if we can try and organize a larger effort including humane societies, vets and dog trainers to start taking a stand against BSL right now before it's to late for more breeds.

As well here are websites to various information sources if anyone needs to find anything before writing letters

BSL information and links to Ontario Pitbull associations
http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/breederinfo11.htm

http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affe...rous_dogs.html

A list of BSL laws across Canada for members of other proviences

http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/f...gs/bylaws.html

Kayla

x.l.r.8
January 10th, 2007, 04:06 PM
I was in agreement untill the sanctions made me very defencive. Mandatory obedience classes for 1str time owners, you trying to tell me the owners of animals breed to be ugly fighters are first time owners, no I don't think so, stupidity left on it's own is allowed to grow. I would welcome enforcement of by-lays already in place, we have to pick through the minefield of turds on the walks and nearly everydog NOT cleaned up afterwards is off leash. You think they are forst time dog owners.
So if my dog ran away but then I caught it would I have to report myself and hand my dog over, again not happening, someone on this very list had this happen to them twice, these things happen, it's what they do once they run that would be questionable. if you had fewer laws and made them enforcable you would have people take notice. I'll admit I leave riley in the van while I get my shopping, now here thats not allowed but tying him up outside and letting him bark and be scared it acceptable, yet in the van he just lies down. My only answer is remove pets from irresponsable owners, no mater what the breed. loose the muzzles and hold the owners accountable, ensure the dog has a way of being traced and there will also be less strays as they can't be dumped. The task set out is huge and will require a lot of funding, where as the way they WILL deal with it is to pass the cost onto the owner and have all the breeds muzzled, this makes them look good in the public eye and also passes any blame to the same inappropriate owners. But as a new owner I sould just shut up and get myself off to an obedience class, maybe that should be opened to include all new dogs rather than their owners. Responsable owners want there pets to be sociable, it's a shame the same rules don't apply to parents. It's a shame you didn't mention increased punishment for owners who HAVE already had a dog before, who SHOULD know better. Kudos for trying to make a difference but I think you will end up preaching to the perverted. The more I learn about behaviour, the more I wonder what humans are trying to achieve by their actions.:shrug: and in politics the more they talk about it the less they intend to do, so they will probably have a big forum and then do what ever is cheapest. :2cents: I wish you all the best and would just like to think we could become responsable owners regardless how many dogs you have had previously.

Colubridz
January 10th, 2007, 05:24 PM
I deffiently see your point and am glad you have shared your thoughts on my porposal. This is all very new to me as well so the more suggestions put out their the better as we can all shape where we want to go with this and prepare a better defence and offense against bsl.

I see your point about how I probabaly am trying to tackle to many issues in one and didn't mean for the first time owner thing to be condiscended, after all Duke is my first dog, which makes me a first time owner. I think I will scrap that part along with the zero tolerance policy for escaped dogs as I can also see how that could backfire as even responsible owners make mistakes.

I have gotten in touch with the Toronto Humane Society and they are willing to support any type of protest or march we can organize and will use their position to help with any media interviews if we can get that far.

I'm starting to like the idea of creating some type of anti-bsl march with a public education compenet to it might be more effective in reaching more people then a protest as your right the politics will be the hardest to reach but if we can get more public awareness it might be the best place to start.

I'm open to all other suggestions and want to make it clear I was simply brain storming ideas not trying to put anyone down. All future suggestions, ideas or support is why I posted this in the first place, so we can all work togther to hopefully one day defeat BSL.

Kayla

pitgrrl
January 10th, 2007, 05:34 PM
x.l.r I had a pretty hard time understanding what you wrote, but this especially confuses me:

I was in agreement untill the sanctions made me very defencive. Mandatory obedience classes for 1str time owners, you trying to tell me the owners of animals breed to be ugly fighters are first time owners, no I don't think so, stupidity left on it's own is allowed to grow.

Are you saying that certain breeds are never owned by first time dog owners? That doesn't really make any sense to me, ofcourse all breeds end up with inexperienced owners to some degree, no?

I do agree that often (though not always) the exsisting by-laws in a given community would be enough if they were consistantly enforced. Think of all the problems simply enforcing leash laws would solve, however when faced with an environment hostile towards certain breeds you need to come up with decent alternatives to BSL. I imagine that many people feel that leash, running at large, etc. laws are already in exsistance and aren't stopping the problems in their communities, so they want new laws that they precieve will do a better job, and politicians want to give that to them.

I think Colubridz has given some really good suggestions, so hopefully others can add to them and come up with various ways to actively participate in opposing the insanity going on in Ontario right now.

pitbullpony
January 10th, 2007, 06:52 PM
a recognized association such as the
Dog Owner's Legislation Council of Canada; who are already fighting Bill 132, using a lawyer who is hopefully getting it overturned on anti-constitutional grounds.
http://www.doglegislationcouncilcanada.org/
Try joining their yahoogroup which helps people with well written letters to the editors.
And I agree with one poster; don't introduce any more restrictions until the current restrictions are actually used.:thumbs up

wdawson
January 10th, 2007, 08:09 PM
it may be me but the links to the hamilton spec stories don't work.....if others are having problems i have been posting them as they have been reported in the news stories thread.

babyrocky1
January 10th, 2007, 08:17 PM
I applaud your effort and your concern but I was just going to make a similar suggestion as Pitpony. All of the ground work already exists. The Network has been built and the formulas to fight BSL are in place, there is only one really important thing lacking and that is the effort from others who do not own pit bulls to finally understand that bill 132 does not just threaten us "bullie owners" Yes, there are already concerns being raised of a possible Rotti ban dure to the latest storys and those of us who have bullies will remember the media starting these calls against us and now we see where they lead.
So welcome aboard but for your own sake, dont try and "reinvent the wheel" so to speak, The whole "banned aid coalitioin" is against BSL of any kind and Im sure all would be thrilled to welcome another activist to the fold!
The pres of the DLCC owns a Rotti!
You are in a great position to help your breed as well as other "vulnerable" breeds because you can speak to the Rottie community and other owners but as I believe you can feel, time is of the essence. So good luck and welcome aboard!:dog:

babyrocky1
January 10th, 2007, 08:42 PM
I'm starting to like the idea of creating some type of anti-bsl march with a public education compenet to it might be more effective in reaching more people then a protest as your right the politics will be the hardest to reach but if we can get more public awareness it might be the best place to start.

I'm open to all other suggestions and want to make it clear I was simply brain storming ideas not trying to put anyone down. All future suggestions, ideas or support is why I posted this in the first place, so we can all work togther to hopefully one day defeat BSL.

Kayla
The last time we did this was the CAndle Light Vigil to mark the anniversary of the enaction of Bill 132, it was very sad to see how poorly attended it was, but on the other hand we have had hugely successful vigils and walks as well. If the court case is successful we could all have a celebratory walk cause if we win this challenge it will be extremely hard for anyone to enact BSL in Ontario, on the other hand if we lose i think we will really need to galvanize quickly to fend of more breed bans:sad: Either way the bigger the network the better!:thumbs up ps, the "Pit Bull Co-op welcomes all responsible owners who are against BSL... we have mini protest walks every week!:D

Colubridz
January 10th, 2007, 09:49 PM
Thanks for your feeback guys, I actually wasn't sure the extent of sort of solutions to bsl that had already been proposed so thats why I was just playing around with possible solutions but I'm glad to see some are in place. In which case I'm going to present the idea of putting on a Anti-BSL education display at the upcoming All about pets show in March here in Mississauga as their is a HUGE turnout each year and it includes cats and parrots as well so even if those visitors could see the display, meet a few good dog ambassadors ( already have a few friends with therapy dogs in mind but by all means if you are intrested in being apart of this with your breed ambassador feel free to pm me and we can discuss details) it might help raise public awareness.

I'm attempting to get ahold of the Dog legislative Council but the show is still a few months a way so I think that might be a good start, I'd also like to organize something like babyrocky1's march on the anneviersy of Bill 132's enactment.

I'll keep everyone updated and I think that display at the Pet show might be a good idea what does everyone think?

Kayla

erykah1310
January 10th, 2007, 11:31 PM
babyrocky... I joined the Banned Aid site when all this started ...
I havent been to the site in quite some time now, mostly due to problems with opening it.


While most of us here are stongly against BSL or anyother discrimination against our dogs.
What could one do in small communities such as mine??? Really it just seems that no one cares here at all:sad: Pitties are still being bred and walked around muzzle free and no one is batting an eyelash. ( Great about the muzzles, but sad about the breeding) there is no real "groups" so to speak unless you head to the city. Even there, there is little happening, unlike further south ( your area)

OntarioGreys
January 11th, 2007, 07:09 PM
In which case I'm going to present the idea of putting on a Anti-BSL education display at the upcoming All about pets show in March here in Mississauga as their is a HUGE turnout each year and it includes cats and parrots as well so even if those visitors could see the display, meet a few good dog ambassadors ( already have a few friends with therapy dogs in mind but by all means if you are intrested in being apart of this with your breed ambassador feel free to pm me and we can discuss details) it might help raise public awareness.

I'm attempting to get ahold of the Dog legislative Council but the show is still a few months a way so I think that might be a good start, I'd also like to organize something like babyrocky1's march on the anneviersy of Bill 132's enactment.

I'll keep everyone updated and I think that display at the Pet show might be a good idea what does everyone think?

Kayla

Have you ever done something like this before?


March is around the corner, as you said the show is well attended, a lot of the booths are already rented, before you get too far ahead of yourself find out what space is available and the cost. Who is going to put up the money for the cost of the booth, I know rescues get them at a lower cost, but I think the booths are in the $800 range, maybe more, are you going to have time for making pamphlets? It is pretty short notice for a printer, where is the money coming from to pay for printing of? Some events have very specific guidelines for the booths displays and may require a professionly made banner of who you are or what you represent, that can run a few hundred. Most that get a booth already have and are well into the planning stage, I am not saying anything is not available, but you are going to have a lot of work infront of you if you planning to pull off this close to the event.

The show organizers limits how many dogs that can be involved in the show at a given time. Do you have enough dogs that can handle 4 hours at time of being surrounded, hugged, held, laid on, prodded , having little tots sticking their hands in their mouth, crawling under them and maybe tripped over and stepped on without getting upset? A show like this can be very stressful for some dogs even those that are good natured and easy going may be fine in small crowds but big events like this can be intimidating for some and not all parents at these events are closely supervising their children and some children may be a bit rough handling the dogs, so dogs have to have the personality and patience to be able to handle, and habing them prepped for, is good idea.

You need dogs that are rock steady, confident and outgoing and take time to practice with large crowds before attending, last thing you want is to have a dog that is getting overwhelmed or tired and decides its had enough and then snap and growl at a child. Some won't, instead they retreat into themselves and afterward the owner finds the dog shying from strangers and not being a outgoing as they once were and training may be needed to get back their confidence. If a dog goes that lacks in confidence, it could result in lifelong emotional scars.

My dogs used to do meet and greets so has had lots of practice with smaller crowds but I knew Callie was not as comfortable with or would get restless.

Callies first outing to a meet and greet(small one) was stressful to her, she developed and upset stomach and barfed twice and she was held back for a few months, and then when re-introduced I make sure to talk to the organizer ahead of time about taking her outside and giving her breaks as through and left Sunny with someelse since he was fine continuing to work the crowd, so did this a few times at the next events until she developed the confidence to handle

I left her at home and just took Sunny to the All About Pets Show, and other bigs event like the Royal Winter Fair but even then I did some warms ups as preparation beforehand by taking him to busy areas like downtown, outdoor farmers market or any other outdoor events starting about a month prior to the event to get him somewhat used to the crowds and bustle, this gives him a warm-up to the big event.
2 years ago while playing with him outside I noted he had tenderness in his abdominal area, later testing revealing he has an very enlarged spleen, though not serious enough to remove, from that point onward I have not taken him to anymore events, I won't take the chance risk that someone may press to hard any have him get upset or annoyed and show agression as a result.

Sunny is an ex-racer who spent a lot of time in the winner's circle, he was the top dog in the kennel, so he was used to having lots of fuss being made over him and he thrived on that kind of attention, it was actually tough on his going to the adoption kennel and then home where out for walks people would simple ignore him and not be the star, so getting him into meet and greets, events and parades really helped that void early on and helped him in being more comfortable as a pet

With events like this I would recommend a change over of dogs at least every 4 hours, some dogs really can only handle about 2hrs comfortably before getting restless and wanting a break, if you have a dog there that is getting stressed or very restless, get them out of there send them a 15 or 20 minute break outside away from the crowds to see if the dog can regroup itself if not sent it and owner home or at least have an airline crate or blanketed wire crate for the dog to retire to till the shift is finished. Some groups do not like to do events like this do to worries of liability should a dog become stressed and ends up biting someone, as the organizer and renter of the booth the risk of liability would fall on you. I know at some similiar events in the US some groups use combined x-pens, the dogs then get to decide if they want to socialize with the crowds, this gives the dog a break as they need it, and protects the dogs from overly exhuberant youngsters and helps to lower liability risks.

babyrocky1
January 11th, 2007, 08:43 PM
[QUOTE=.

I'm attempting to get ahold of the Dog legislative Council but the show is still a few months a way so I think that might be a good start, I'd also like to organize something like babyrocky1's march on the anneviersy of Bill 132's enactment.

I'll keep everyone updated and I think that display at the Pet show might be a good idea what does everyone think?

Kayla[/QUOTE]I think its a great idea and I hate to be repetative but I think the DLCC had a booth alst year, I also know they have trouble getting enough people to work these events so another reason they would be glad to hear from you. One of the things I was mentioning at the Co-op is that we might go to the Blue Jays game with our Bullies! theres a day every yr when you can bring your dogs! Also the Co-op is having a "special" walk on Feb the 17th (tentative date) these walks are generally well attended as we have them on a Sunday afternoon so that people have time to get in from out of town.. You and your Rotti would be very welcome to attend! You would meet up with some great people for networking there. We have people that come from alot of the rescues as well as the DLCC and we have all breeds, even an honorary beagle! Infact one of our Monday nighters is a Rotti!
Im also wondering if there are "rottie" chat groups out there the way there are Bullies, Weve always wondered why there arent too many Rotti people wanting to help out...they would definately be in the next "wave" if there should be one.... So again, I think its great that you are motivated to take up the cause as we really need the help!