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Blue cocker spaniels

Daisy2943
January 7th, 2007, 06:46 PM
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Is these for real? Are they show quality i looked at the akc standard and blue isn't even mentioned but i love the color. Ill have pics of my boy soon.

erykah1310
January 7th, 2007, 11:17 PM
Most likely a fault... perhaps if it was solid blue, it could fall under ascob but blue is prolly a genetic defect. :shrug:

mafiaprincess
January 7th, 2007, 11:35 PM
The pic shows merle.. not a true blue..

Blue roan has a few varieties which is ticking is within standard, from what I've learned in the past few months there are merle cockers, they shouldn't be being bred though, they fall out of standard and aren't common at all. Most merles get registered as roans. Merle isn't a recognized ACS coat colour.

Dog in the pic you posted looks like a blue merle parti cocker.

Prin
January 7th, 2007, 11:38 PM
ooo Merle... The Merle genes come with a whole bunch of other genetic problems, most notably deafness.

erykah1310
January 7th, 2007, 11:48 PM
merle too is linked to deafness?

Prin
January 7th, 2007, 11:49 PM
yep. To the point that they're using merle doggies to study deafness in humans associated with merle-type genes.:shrug:

erykah1310
January 7th, 2007, 11:52 PM
I guess thats why merle is disqualified in lots of breeds.
That lovely BYB i was conversing with a while back was breeding her merle, and when i called her on being a byb i used that as my main point. They are disqualified in that particular breed.

mafiaprincess
January 7th, 2007, 11:52 PM
Merle x merle is loaded with issues. A merle pup out of a litter where one parent didn't carry merling genes, pups should be fine..

It's bad pairs of danes put together to create pups with deafness and other issues.. most notably, breeding a merle which shouldn't happen.. since merle can occur naturally. Merle cockers may crop up, but there's no reason to breed them out of standard and all..

But, merle in cockers is really really rare. So generally it's only skeazy people exploiting it so who knows how horrible their ethics are, what they truly bred together, whole weirdo can of worms.

It's awfully hard to find a breeder with roan cockers that are part of the standard. So merle which shouldn't really happen.. Average person shouldn't be able to find a puppy that is merle unless it is being toted as rare and at a high high price.

erykah1310
January 7th, 2007, 11:57 PM
Yes, tapping "rare" in the breed name always adds a few bucks huh:frustrated:
Definately have to question the ethics on that "breeder".
Just like the "rare" white dobies and boxers.... they are over priced as well and loaded with genetic issues

Daisy2943
January 7th, 2007, 11:57 PM
Well im really glad i posted this then because me and my husband were considering getting one after we moved. I love the color but don't love what they do for the breed. By the way Charlie won Best of breed this weekend. I'm so proud of him. His handler is going to teach me how to show him once the baby comes.

erykah1310
January 7th, 2007, 11:59 PM
I didnt even know Charlie was competing this weekend?
Good for Charlie.:thumbs up

mafiaprincess
January 8th, 2007, 12:03 AM
Daisy, If you like the colour, you could search for a blue roan instead. I wanted a roan baby.. But to find a good breeder with roans seemed impossible. While rare, they are within standard. And they do have similar characteristics depending upon what you like about the colour.

Prin
January 8th, 2007, 12:05 AM
Do we get pics? They always take fancy pics next to that ugly black sign.:D

erykah1310
January 8th, 2007, 01:52 AM
Oh yes , we definately want some pics with the ugly black sign :D We have one of Joey in the "showing" thread, now we need to have Charlie. Another pets.ca star!:pray:

erykah1310
January 8th, 2007, 02:38 AM
Heres an interesting tidbit i found about merle cockers.
http://www.zimfamilycockers.com/merle.html
Long read and almost seems to promote it a tad ( as per my take in the skim through reading i did) however some interesting merle stats.

mafiaprincess
January 8th, 2007, 11:57 AM
Yeah, it's about the only info on merles on the net in cockers.

OntarioGreys
January 9th, 2007, 01:43 AM
The pic shows merle.. not a true blue..

Blue roan has a few varieties which is ticking is within standard, from what I've learned in the past few months there are merle cockers, they shouldn't be being bred though, they fall out of standard and aren't common at all. Most merles get registered as roans. Merle isn't a recognized ACS coat colour.

Dog in the pic you posted looks like a blue merle parti cocker.


It is not that merles should not be bred but that they should not be bred to one another because a lethal gene ould could be produced so far that lethal gene has not been seen in cockers, but breeder want merles to have their own category and the reason for that is because some merles and roans do look extremely alike and there is a danger of someone crossbreeding a merle to what is supposed to be a roan who really is a merle and than have that lethal gene turn up, if there is a seperate category for registering merles then it will help avoid the potential for accidently breeding merle to merle.

When a merle is bred to any other colour one pup out of the litter will be merle

In a merle to merle breeding all pup will be merle, and often that is how some breeder end up learning the roan they bought was actually a merle

This person has put together an article on describing the differences between merle and roan in hopes of allowing people to better identify pups sold as roans that may in fact be merles


http://www.merleinfo.net/differences.html

Prin
January 9th, 2007, 02:07 AM
I think beyond the lethal gene, a responsible breeder wouldn't risk breeding double merles because of all the other health defects it implies. Kind of like albinos.:shrug:

OntarioGreys
January 9th, 2007, 02:42 AM
I think beyond the lethal gene, a responsible breeder wouldn't risk breeding double merles because of all the other health defects it implies. Kind of like albinos.:shrug:

That is partly what the article is about, to help prevent and to ensure merles are indentified as such and have not simply grouped in with roans and labeled as such on certificates

mafiaprincess
January 9th, 2007, 12:31 PM
Your right OG.. I was thinking cockers and danes (cause I know far more about both than I know about other breeds). Neither of those should be breeding merles.. I wasn't really thinking about all the breeds where it is kosher.

Prin
January 11th, 2007, 12:52 AM
I'd just wonder about any breeder breeding merles at all, whether it's single gene merles or double merles. Some of the weaker genes show better in doubles (i.e. we see the problems that result), but as singles still significantly weaken the animal.

CyberKitten
January 11th, 2007, 05:07 AM
I agree with whoever suggested no responsible breeder would continue this mutation - or however they wrote it. It will take generations before the reason for the problem is discovered. I don't see a pict either but while I bet light blue cookers would be adorable, so would blue poodles. Or maybe a fair skinned male baby while we are at it. It is all part if an ethical question. There is no good or ethical reason to "design" a new sub breed of cocker spaniels. (and cuteness does not even begin to answer that question or address this complex and compelling issue!)

twisten
January 12th, 2007, 11:36 AM
Where can we see a pic of this dog you guys are talking about? This is all new to me. I've never heard of Merles or Roans in Cockers. Learning something new every day on here which is great!!
I went to the one web site and saw pictures of the merles. Too bad its a fault because the dogs are beautiful with that merle coloring.

Prin
January 12th, 2007, 02:14 PM
Not sure we can post one... We haven't been too nice about them and I'm not sure any breeder would like to be affiliated with this thread... :o But if you know what a merle sheltie looks like, just grab that coat color and put it on a cocker...:o :shrug:

mafiaprincess
January 12th, 2007, 04:06 PM
Erykah posted a link about merle cockers.. it included pics....
http://www.zimfamilycockers.com/merle.html

Also here's the most comprehensive list of coat colours in cockers with pics that I've ever found. Lot of the colours would be difficult to find, but many are really pretty.
http://www.zimfamilycockers.com/cockers.html#Coat-Colors

Prin
January 12th, 2007, 04:13 PM
lol Of course! :D Sorry about that.:o

Daisy2943
January 13th, 2007, 01:17 AM
I really think the blue merle parti colors are pretty but now that you guys told me about allt he defects ive got to figure out a whole new color lol.

Prin
January 13th, 2007, 01:52 AM
Hey, did you post the pics of your cocker's win yet? I didn't see them.:o

Daisy2943
January 15th, 2007, 07:16 PM
No pictures yet. My scanner broke becuase someone decided the cords were chew toys cough Gypsy cough but i will.

Prin
January 15th, 2007, 08:08 PM
Are there any on the net? Some shows post the pics on the net, don't they?