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Bland diet again.....:(

Rottielover
January 7th, 2007, 02:59 PM
:pray: ok, we just got back from the vet again, anyways, we did another xray to make sure everything passed with the obstruction, and found his lower intestines full with gas, not a ball, but thouroghly threw them. He has been having extremely soft stool for 7 days now, and the past couple days has been mush, and extremely foul.
I was worried he might have caught something, so took him in, and glad I did.
I also did a fecel analysis, because I was not 100% satisfied that he does not have an infection somewhere. Same symtems he had when he had gardidia.
Now they wanted to put him on the vet diet, which is by SD, I said no way, I will make the bland diet.
Curious, they want him on it a full week, and to up fiber intake. What and how much would you reccomend for an active 107lb rott.
Right now he had boiled burger and rice, but not helping, and he is starving
Thank you guys for any imput

TeriM
January 7th, 2007, 03:06 PM
What do you feed him normally? I would guess that approx the same bulk amount for the bland diet would be appropriate. I usually do about 50% meat and then mix rice and mashed frozen veggies (or ground up fresh) for the other half.

Rottielover
January 7th, 2007, 03:23 PM
they just want him on meat and rice for 1 week :(. he normally eats raw, and 4 cups of good kibble a day

gypsy_girl
January 7th, 2007, 03:24 PM
INSOLUBLE fiber generates gas and bloating, which are the products of carbohydrate fermentation that occurs when the fiber reaches colonic bacteria in the large intestine. SOLUBLE fiber, however, is found in fruits, vegetables, oats, barley etc.
Eagle makes a great product that I like Holistic Solution, however is does contain pre/probiotics and in some cases dogs with these issues do poorly with supplementing "biotics" until the mucus layer has regenerated. I might give it a go though, as your "repair" will be faster. Perhaps going slow, and watching closely is the answer. Most certainly adding SOLUBLE fiber will be a big help, and I use 3-5 grams per day.

Good luck

Rottielover
January 7th, 2007, 03:37 PM
The only kibble harley has been able to digest has been natural balance, all others have caused irritations in his stomache....Thank you for that much needed advice... appreciate it.

technodoll
January 7th, 2007, 03:40 PM
i'm sorry for poor harley... wish i could help, i don't know much about cooked diets :o but if my dogs would get sick i would stick with lean ground boneless meats and a supercooked mush of brown rice & cooked veggies (all pureed & mixed with the ground meat). very easy to digest, very soft, no raw bones, full of natural enzymes, and also add some active probiotic capsules. the rice and the veggies provide the soluble fiber and the meat gives enzymes, protein and enough calories so the dog doesn't feel starved.... well that's what i would do.... :shrug:

LL1
January 7th, 2007, 03:43 PM
When we do cooked bland diets we usually use boiled skinless chicken with mashed potatoes,cooked oatmeal,pasta or rice.

Rottielover
January 7th, 2007, 03:46 PM
Thank you for the ideas....TD, I do not want to do RAW, we are having a stool culture done, might be a tad ecoli, or semoneli, I will know tomorrow...

technodoll
January 7th, 2007, 03:48 PM
good luck for the results! :fingerscr

Rottielover
January 8th, 2007, 08:46 AM
Sorry, I forgot to mention what he has is called colitis. Now we have to find out what caused it, either IBD or bacteria somewhere.
Today he is constipated. My worries are he is so full of gas, but he has not passed anything yet :(. Not even stinky farts.
Can not wait for the results to come back.....I will let you all know.
By the way thank you for all your help. I will also ask her about adding certain veggies to the bland.

barkley21
January 8th, 2007, 01:26 PM
Our pup had colitis when he was younger. I know exactly what you are going through and how frustrating it is. Our vet at the time put him on Medi-Cal Fibre Formula and a round of antibiotics until his poops returned to normal. It worked but more like a band-aid type solution. Once he was off the antibiotics and back to regular kibble, the colitis returned. We switched to a holistic vet and on his advice switched Barkley to raw and we haven't had a problem with colitis since. For some reason, Barkley just couldn't digest kibble properly (we tried about 5 different kibbles - all higher quality). Our holistic vet said that the antibiotics given to Barkley by the previous vet did more harm than good because they killed all the good bacteria in his system as well as the bad and as a result his immune system was very weak and he ended up with a UTI on top of the colitis. It was a real mess. Once we switched him to raw and probiotic capsules, the colitis and UTI went away with no antibiotics required. I notice that you feed both raw and kibble. Would you consider switching completely to raw and see if it works for your dog as well? I know every dog is different, but it might be worth a shot.

Rottielover
January 8th, 2007, 01:33 PM
I would love to feed just raw, but can not afford it. He is a very active 110 lb rottweiler, and it would cost way to much. We tried just raw, but he seemed to have lost weight on it, so I thought this would be best for him..
I think I will call the holistic vet around here, to hear her take

barkley21
January 8th, 2007, 01:49 PM
Hi Rottielover,
It's too bad you can't find a good butcher in your area. We recently did this and RAW is turning out to cost us less than kibble did! If you do it solely from supermarket meat or pre-packaged frozen raw from pet stores, it definitely can get very expensive, unless you hit a sale at the supermarket and stock up.
Good luck with the holistic vet and let us know what he/she says and how the further tests turn out.

technodoll
January 8th, 2007, 02:23 PM
i agree with viola... you need to watch out for sales and stock up. we make our own pre-ground patties and can feed our two dogs (127 lbs and 83 lbs) an all-raw diet for $100 per month. It would cost us at least $180 with premium (Evo) kibble & wet food. And you can't beat an all-natural raw diet for nutrition... my little girl eats 1 tablespoon of kibble and will have severe diarrhea for 2 days. some dogs just cannot digest kibble :shrug:

i'd be curious to see what a holistic vet would have to say about harley's condition, please :pray: good news soon! i know how worried you must be.

barkley21
January 8th, 2007, 02:57 PM
We tried just raw, but he seemed to have lost weight on it, so I thought this would be best for him..


Yeah, when we switched Barkley to raw he lost weight too. No, actually he didn't lose weight exactly, he just didn't gain any, which was odd because he was 5 month old puppy and was growing. Feeding raw is not a very high-calorie form of feeding, especially if you're not feeding a lot of fatty skin, etc. It is definitely a very healthy, lean diet. We increased his raw intake and he put on the weight beautifully. He looks fantastic now.

By the way, I know you said that raw would cost you too much to feed solely, but in the long run, if he does well on it you'll be saving all that $ on vet fees that you're currently dishing out because of the colitis, tests, re-tests, possible medication, etc. In the end, it may still be the cheaper option and if not, at least the same as feeding kibble and raw.:shrug:

Rottielover
January 8th, 2007, 03:06 PM
What worries me the most is I saw the xray, all the gas in his lower intestine, anll entangled. Yet, he did not poop today, he has not even farted, or burped. So does this mean he is keeping it all in, if That is the case, can't that be toxic?
Also I can not buy in bulk, no where to store it, remember my daughter has to eat too.
Soon harley will have his own wing at the vet office, lol

technodoll
January 8th, 2007, 03:09 PM
may i mention... our boy was on a mix of kibble and raw for a while and didn't do very well on it... in August he weighed a skinny 107 lbs... we then put him on a raw-only diet and upped his caloric intake with richer cuts of meat such a regular ground beef and pork, chicken and turkey with skin, raw eggs, canned fish, eliminated the grains, etc (he got on average 2.5 to 3 lbs of food per day). 4 months later he gained 20 lbs of lean muscle mass and looks awesome, and he's not done growing! :thumbs up

poor harley, that gas cannot be comfortable! eeek! i really hope it passes soon and doesn't come back!

yep holistic vet... buy a small 2nd hand chest freezer... imagine what you could buy if you eliminate the vet bills, LOL! ah but we love our kids eh?

barkley21
January 8th, 2007, 03:17 PM
In the x-ray, did it show only gas or did he even have any food to poop out? I know you're waiting for the second set of results to tell you what caused the colitis, but did the vet give him anything for the gas or the discomfort thereof?
When you feed the kibble and raw, do you feed them at the same time or at separate meals? If it's at the same meal, it could be problematic. He might be having trouble digesting them because kibble and raw take different lengths of time to digest and the kibble could be blocking things up as it takes longer. This could lead to potential bacteria build up I would imagine because it means that the raw food is staying in his system longer becuase of the kibble, than it would otherwise, thus giving the bacteria more time to set up shop inside.

Rottielover
January 8th, 2007, 03:19 PM
Ok, I just want to mention he was doing great with the raw and kibble...this all started with his obstruction. I think the piece of bone damaged his colon. Plus a mix of bacteria.
Harley has tried many holistic kibbles and failed, but has been amazing on karnivore raw, and DVP. I just really want to know what exactly is causing this.
750mg 2 times a day on metronizdole is going to destroy his liver.. he is on it for 14 days.
called the vet will not have the culture back for another day or 2, because it was the weekend.
I need to find things easy to digest, and extremely high in fiber.

TeriM
January 8th, 2007, 03:26 PM
I often use oatmeal instead of rice. It has more fiber and IMO is easier to digest. The dogs absolutely love it.

Prin
January 8th, 2007, 04:23 PM
I don't have any advice that hasn't already been given, but I wanted to wish Harley (and you) luck with this... Good luck! :fingerscr :fingerscr

technodoll
January 8th, 2007, 04:24 PM
I need to find things easy to digest, and extremely high in fiber.


if you need something to keep harley's system "flowing", ie no obstructions and constipation, LIVER is the key. raw or cooked it doesn't matter. if you feed too much it will even give diarrhea, so you don't need much at all, plus it's an excellent food. fiber in the form of grains, any kind of grain, is good for a ruminant... not for a carnivore :shrug:

Rottielover
January 8th, 2007, 04:39 PM
I tried turkey liver, chicken liver, beef liver. He will not touch it. personally I do not blame him, it is really gross, what about wheat pasta, ???

Prin
January 8th, 2007, 05:00 PM
I think the complex carbs would make it harder to digest. Rice and oats are much easier.:shrug:

technodoll
January 8th, 2007, 05:37 PM
i've never met a dog who can resist baked liver... do they exist? :eek: :D LOL

rottielover, mine won't get within 10 feet of raw liver :D

Scott_B
January 8th, 2007, 05:52 PM
I tried turkey liver, chicken liver, beef liver. He will not touch it. personally I do not blame him, it is really gross, what about wheat pasta, ???

Have you tried searing the liver? It brings the flavor out and usually will turn the fussiest of pups. :thumbs up

Rottielover
January 8th, 2007, 06:45 PM
Nope, will not touch it at all, only dehydrated, but gives him the runs after a few of them....Well walked for 30 mins, still has not pooped, I am calling the vet

erykah1310
January 8th, 2007, 06:52 PM
Im in Prins boat here, I have nothing new to offer in the form of advice but would like to offer my support.
Keeping Harley and you in my thoughts, for him to overcome this.:grouphug:

barkley21
January 8th, 2007, 07:01 PM
Rottielover, let us know what the vet says. I know how worried you must be because it's been so long since he's pooped.

Rottielover
January 8th, 2007, 07:09 PM
They said do not worry, sometimes it can take days after a long bout of diareah, and that the gas must have passed mildly somehow because he is not uncomfortable. He still is his happy go lucky self, but hungrier. Poor guy
Thank you all for standing behind me on another one of harleys misfortunes....

technodoll
January 8th, 2007, 07:19 PM
RL, in case of doubt (or Harley is burping, or farting... obvious gas) feel free to give him a Gas-X tablet or in liquid form (found in children's supplies at the drugstore). It really helps to get the gas to pass or diminish, and is safe for dogs. which holistic vet will you be seeing, is it Dr. Guindon?... :grouphug:

Rottielover
January 8th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Have not made the apt yet, waiting on fecal results to see what action to take, I have yet to see a holistic vet, if it comes down to it, who would you reccomend ?

vfrohloff
January 9th, 2007, 09:08 AM
Poor Harley, how is he feeling today? I have gas issues with Benny; he had bloat in July and still gets gassy from time to time. When this happens I feed him plain white rice for one meal, and he gets digestive enzymes twice a day. It seems to do the trick, but every dog is different.

Rottielover
January 9th, 2007, 07:08 PM
Ok, guys, I just recieved a phone call from the tech. Harley stool analysis came back excellent. Normally I would be thrilled, but this still leaves the unanswered...What is wrong.
Today he finally did a poop. Rice came out whole, never happened before, but the pureed carrots were digested. It is still mush, very hard to pick up.
I called DR guidons office, they are not open on weekends, which leaves me screwed. I can not take time off.
So I am going to do mere research, and for now treat this like IBD. I hope the vet will call me back tomorrow when she gets the message, I need to know what to do, I do not need him losing all nutrients:yell: :sad: :fingerscr

technodoll
January 9th, 2007, 11:47 PM
i would try pureeing the cooked rice with rice water and the boiled veggies and meat (lots of meat...) to make a thick soup, it "predigests" the food for him, so to speak. if the meat is raw, even better, it has essential digestive enzymes. also give harley some canned pumpkin (one or two tablespoons to start) and some probiotic tablets, to help him rebuild the good flora in his intestines. if his stool gets better... try a raw egg in the mix...

too bad for the holistic vet :frustrated: i wish i knew of others... can he not give you a phone consult, at least? now that you have some test results?.. :grouphug: hang in there!

Rottielover
January 11th, 2007, 09:05 AM
Ok guys, an update.......His stools are starting to form......the little things that makes us happy.
What i decided to do was to go back to what he does well on, and only that....I am giving 2 tsp of plain yogurt as per suggestion, and giving him small doses of his normal food AKA DVP, 3 to 4 times a day.
This morning I was very pleased to see that it worked...so I think
Could also be the crazy dosage of the drug, but for now it is helping.
I think the main test will be after the drugs are finished.
Thank you guys for all your support and suggestions. They were not taken lightly, and depending on what happens after the drugs, they will be put into play..
Once again thank you, and harley thanks you

Scott_B
January 11th, 2007, 09:19 AM
Glad to hear things are looking up! Keep us updated on the progress! :thumbs up

technodoll
January 11th, 2007, 10:13 AM
:goodvibes: yay for the good news! :goodvibes:

crazy what a solid poop does for the moral eh? :D