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Unheard of cat food brand

maizeydaze
January 3rd, 2007, 12:00 PM
Hello everyone . I was wondering anyone knows about a canned cat food that I purchased at a Big Lots store in USA ? I can't find anything about this brand or the distributor on the internet. It's called NUTRA SELECTION - SUPER FEAST. It's distributed by MFOLP, 8 Falconer Drive, Streetsville, ON L5N 181. Says "Product of USA" on can. Bear in mind it's called NUTRA not Nutro. Is it safe and nutritious? The best by date on can is MAR 2007 and code is 50882208 L22182158. Thank you.
:fingerscr

technodoll
January 3rd, 2007, 12:19 PM
can you post the ingredients, as listed on the can? this will help us help you :)

maizeydaze
January 3rd, 2007, 12:46 PM
Here are the ingredients. Thanks.

Water sufficient for processing, poultry by-products, fish by-products, meat by-products, corn meal, soybean meal, pea fiber, carrageenan, potassium chloride, vitamns (E, A, 03, B12 supplements, thiamine mononitrate, niacin, d-calcium panothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, folic acid, biqtin) minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, manganous sulfate, potassium iodide, sodium selenite), choline chloride.

GUARNTEED ANALYSIS: Crude protein (MIN) 8.0%, Crude fat (MIN) 3.0%, Crude fiber (MAX) 3.0%, Moisture (MAX) 78.0%

Note: My cat is on Science Diet XD for calcium oxalate kidney stones. I can't get him to eat much of it and have been using the NUTRA food as more of a treat (about 1 tablespoon at a time, 2X per day).

~michelle~
January 3rd, 2007, 12:50 PM
it doesnt seem like a good food. its all by-product:shrug:

erykah1310
January 3rd, 2007, 12:51 PM
Seems all by-producty... and the corn meal kinda sets off a red flag for me:shrug:

technodoll
January 3rd, 2007, 01:08 PM
poultry by-products, fish by-products, meat by-products, corn meal, soybean meal, pea fiber, carrageenan, potassium chloride, vitamns (E, A, 03, B12 supplements, thiamine mononitrate, niacin, d-calcium panothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, folic acid, biqtin) minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, manganous sulfate, potassium iodide, sodium selenite), choline chloride

First, avoid by-products... no reason to feed "leftover inedibles" to your beloved pet :love:

Second, there are no identified sources of protein in there... full of "mystery ingredients" because the manufacturer cannot tell from one batch to the next what they will use, depending on what the market prices are for a truck of rejects... :yuck: Poultry = from which kind of bird? Fish = from which kind of fish? Meat = what kind of meat? roadkill? cats and dogs? crippled horses? rotten moose? :confused:

Third, no cat or dog should be eating corn or soy, both are cheap fillers that are highly indigestible and cause allergic reactions.

... go to a reputable, holistic petshop and buy quality canned food, it's good for cats! Look for Innova, Wellness, Felidae, Solid Gold, Nature's Variety, etc. HINT: if you see a petfood advertised on tv or in magazines... it's not a good food and do not buy it.

chico2
January 3rd, 2007, 05:11 PM
I agree,although I always love to visit the Big Lots store when we go to South Carolina,cat-food is not something I would buy from there.

OntarioGreys
January 3rd, 2007, 07:21 PM
-- poultry by-products-- this would contain unusable bird parts in human food process, things like feet, feathers, head, organs and undeveeloped eggs, of what ever bird species was available, because it contains whatever there is no consistency from one batch to another can cause stomach upsets when you introduce food from another batch

--fish by-products-- again the term by-products means that it contains unsuable fish part like skin, fins, organs, head etc of various types of fish what-ever type is available at the time so consistency becomes an issue again

--meat by-products-- This is the worst of the by products, meat obtained from rendering plants, it will contain dead and diseased livestock, roadkill such as skunks, raccoons, deer some of which may have arrived already severely decomposed, also some rendering plants take euthanized companion animals and you are getting again only the crappiest less meatiest parts

So far very little actual meat protein that cats need since there is very little meat in by-products

-- corn meal-- used as a filler, binder to hold ingredients together also as a protein source

-- soybean meal -- Is where most of the protein is coming from cats are tru carnivores they need meat protein to keep them healthy grain/vegetable protiens do not contain all the necessary amino acids necessary for good health

--pea fiber-- contains the skin of the pea( the rest of the pea is dehydrated and sold as dry peas for making soups, may also contain the pods.

So basically this food is made up of all waste products the only nutrition really is the added vitamins and minerals, so a very poor quality product.

Cost may be have been a factor in buying but over the longterm your trying to save money on cheaper food will likely ends up costing you a lot more in vet bills.

If you are looking for something that is a lot better quality has no by-products but not too expensive try Kirkland Premium Cat food from Costco , It is made by Diamond Pet foods would be same as their Diamond Natural line of cat food

You can read the difference in the ingredients by clicking on the pictures of the different formulas http://www.diamondpet.com/products/diamond_naturals/cats/dry_food/

Prin
January 3rd, 2007, 07:32 PM
Hey! I found the little pamphlet with the Kirkland ingredients-

Super Premium Cat Maintenance formula:
Chicken by-product meal, ground yellow corn, brewer's rice, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, natural chicken flavor, etc etc...

Crude protein: 30%
Crude fat: 20%
Crude fiber: 2%
Ash: 5%
Magnesium: 0.1%
Taurine: 0.1%


Whereas the dog Kirkland Super Premium Lamb and rice:
Lamb, lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, rice flour, white rice, egg product, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat, beet pulp, potatoes, fishmeal, flaxseed, natural flavor, millet, brewer's dried yeast, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, etc etc

technodoll
January 3rd, 2007, 07:35 PM
OG maybe you were talking about the canned cat food? :o how are those ingredients?

Prin
January 3rd, 2007, 07:38 PM
There's no kirkland canned cat food in my pamphlet so I dunno.:D :shrug:

technodoll
January 3rd, 2007, 07:43 PM
i can't find anything on the 'net either so... :shrug:

OntarioGreys
January 3rd, 2007, 07:46 PM
I guess I stand corrected :o was going by some other forums that suggested the food was the same, since I could not find an ingredient list online for Kirkland catfood

LL1
January 3rd, 2007, 07:53 PM
I dont know about the byproduct issue,many raw feeders feed by products.Tough call.Depends on what is meant by the term by product I suppose.

Prin
January 3rd, 2007, 09:00 PM
There's by-products and then there's 4-D by-products, where the diseased and dying ones are thrown in too. Usually in pet food, especially when it's nondescript meats, they're the 4-D ones.

LL1
January 3rd, 2007, 09:35 PM
Yes I know,which is why without knowing what they are,it is a tough call imo.Many people think all by products are bad,and that is not the case.

Scott_B
January 3rd, 2007, 09:41 PM
Yes there are differences. The chicken feet I feed are all off the human grade chickens. I don't really consider them a by product, as its more natural as they would eat the entire chicken in the wild. As Prin pointed out, they don't sort through a pile and only give me the 4D ones.

LL1
January 3rd, 2007, 09:55 PM
A by product is a by product.And some think all are bad.I dont.Hard to say without knowing the source,and I would not say all by products in commercial foods are of the 4D variety without facts.

technodoll
January 3rd, 2007, 10:25 PM
i suspect that the petfood manufacturers who use cheap ingredients and fillers to cut costs don't add quality "by-products"... they're all about turning waste products into profit and really don't give a crap about what it does to our pets in the long run... :shrug:

i feed by-products to my dogs, in raw form (organ meats, feet to gnaw on, green tripe, etc) but i certainly don't feed intestines, feathers, skins, beaks, hooves, rotten or diseased meats... and you can bet your bottom dollar that alot of that goes in the lower-end petfoods :yuck:

Scott_B
January 4th, 2007, 06:00 AM
Exactly! With commercial food, you have no idea what they have for by-products, If it comes from human grade products, or if they sweep up whats off the floor at the end of the day, put it in a box and call it dog food so to speak.

maizeydaze
January 4th, 2007, 09:20 AM
Hello all!

Thanks for all the suggestions and disturbing :yuck: info. Unfortunately, I've never heard of a holistic petshop as suggested by technodoll. I reside in a pretty rural area in Pennsylvania :usa: . I did see that many of the brands could be purchased online though.

The Sience Diet XD is a prescription from the vet and is very expensive. Vet said it is supposed to be the only food available that is targeted at deterring the formation of calcium oxalate kidney stones. This type of stone does not desolve and the ones my cat has are too large to pass but too small for surgery. He has been suffering with UTIs since he was a year old. He is now 13. The stones were only discovered this past year with an x-ray. (He has been to 3 different vets over the years and all have taken x-rays but this is the first time anything was seen.) Does anyone know if any of the natural foods has ingredients that will help prevent future stones in my little guy? (I don't know what specific ingredients are supposed to accomplish this.)

Any insight into finding a food that will help prevent further suffering for my sweet boy will be appreciated. Thanks again. :pray:

LL1
January 4th, 2007, 11:47 AM
i suspect that the petfood manufacturers who use cheap ingredients and fillers to cut costs don't add quality "by-products"... they're all about turning waste products into profit and really don't give a crap about what it does to our pets in the long run... :shrug:

i feed by-products to my dogs, in raw form (organ meats, feet to gnaw on, green tripe, etc) but i certainly don't feed intestines, feathers, skins, beaks, hooves, rotten or diseased meats... and you can bet your bottom dollar that alot of that goes in the lower-end petfoods :yuck:

I suspect that is the case for meat in many commercial foods.Has human grade become a legal term yet for defining pet food?I recall reading that it was not,I think I have seen it used on foods that use products that are not human grade,menhaden fish meal etc.

I know several people that feed whole animals to their pets,skin,intestines,you name it.I do not think rotten or diseased comes into play with the word byproducts in all cases.

technodoll
January 4th, 2007, 11:58 AM
Diets high in grain and vegetables produce alkaline urine, which allows certain stones to form. This is one of many reasons to see to it that your pet eats a commercially prepared diet. Had your cat been fed a raw, natural meat diet the occurence of UTIs would have probably been non-existant (as reported by other pet owners who made the switch).

this is what Science Diet XD contains:

Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, pork fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), soy fiber, chicken liver flavor, DL-methionine, taurine, preserved with BHT and BHA, minerals, beta carotene, vitamins .


Mainly composed of a rice by-product (leftovers after the alcohol brewing process so it's fermented and contains traces of alcohol), chicken leftovers from the human food chain (often contains rotted carcasses, heads, feet, intestines, feathers, etc), corn is not only a cheap filler and an allergen but corn gluten meal is also a by-product, then you have soy which is another no-no for cats, and did you know that both BHA and BHT are proven carcinogenic preservatives? it's a component of rubber tires and the containers have a big skull and cross on them!
so there you have it... sometimes you have to analyze what the vet is telling you to conclude they are often wrong when it comes to nutrition.

now for what you CAN feed your cat... i would strongly suggest you read this and give it some consideration :love: http://www.holisticat.com/rawdiet.html

technodoll
January 4th, 2007, 12:03 PM
I know several people that feed whole animals to their pets,skin,intestines,you name it.I do not think rotten or diseased comes into play with the word byproducts in all cases.

i agree that we are not talking about "all cases", but it does for many cases specially in regards to inferior brands and unethical petfood companies (and there are MANY out there).

i also agree that feeding the *whole* animal (such as mouse, rabbit, etc) which includes all internal organs and skin is a very good way to feed, because it is balanced by nature... you get the good meat and fats to balance out the other stuff. and it's fresh. but petfood companies who use by-products exclusively deny our pets the good stuff that comes naturally in a whole animal, those choice cuts of meat and good fats are stripped off for human consumption and the pets get the rest. that creates a nutritional imbalance, which is why by-products in petfood are best avoided. :pawprint:

Prin
January 4th, 2007, 12:06 PM
To prevent more stones, they say to cut down on ash, and the minerals, like Magnesium. I haven't done too much research on it (don't have any cats), but I'm sure there are threads about low ash diets around here somewhere...:o


As for byproducts, there's no doubt that "egg product" isn't a good thing, and if that's in the food, it's a strong possibility that the rest isn't good either.:shrug: I mean, last I checked, eggs were cheaper than meat, right? So if you skimp on the cheap, what are you doing to do with the expensive?

technodoll
January 4th, 2007, 12:15 PM
ash is a by-product (effect) of cooking meats... so feed your cat a raw diet and that problem is eliminated :shrug:

prin, good point on the egg thing! :eek:

LL1
January 4th, 2007, 12:21 PM
i agree that we are not talking about "all cases", but it does for many cases specially in regards to inferior brands and unethical petfood companies (and there are MANY out there).

i also agree that feeding the *whole* animal (such as mouse, rabbit, etc) which includes all internal organs and skin is a very good way to feed, because it is balanced by nature... you get the good meat and fats to balance out the other stuff. and it's fresh. but petfood companies who use by-products exclusively deny our pets the good stuff that comes naturally in a whole animal, those choice cuts of meat and good fats are stripped off for human consumption and the pets get the rest. that creates a nutritional imbalance, which is why by-products in petfood are best avoided. :pawprint:

Guess we can agree to disagree,I think what you are saying can apply to all parts of the pet food.As an example liquid and dried egg product is in human food as well,so it would fall under "human grade" but doesnt mean it is good.I guess I tend not to go for blanket statements on things like this.

Prin
January 4th, 2007, 12:22 PM
No, human grade definitely doesn't imply that a product is flawless. I mean, just look at cereal- most of it is still preserved with BHT and a lot of us won't even allow that for our dogs...

technodoll
January 4th, 2007, 12:32 PM
I mean, just look at cereal- most of it is still preserved with BHT and a lot of us won't even allow that for our dogs...

running to look at all the ingredients in the boxes at home :eek: :yuck: wtf, are you serious? that is terrible! ugghh! luckily we're ok... mostly simple and organic cereals... my goodness. i'm gonna be label scrubbing from now on...!

Scott_B
January 4th, 2007, 01:16 PM
Really, its all food. People have been saying for years with all the chemicals we use, cancer rates are on the rise. All these new super bugs coming out. Its really sad to think about. Orgainic seems to be the new trend. Try and get away from chemicals as much as possible and back to natural foods.

Prin
January 4th, 2007, 01:33 PM
There's a whole debate about organic though. They say that if all the farms we have now were organic, we wouldn't have enough food to feed the world and the rainforests would be gone completely. Also, because of non-"organic" processes used in farming, we make 30% more on 10% more land. :shrug:

There are some organic things that just don't make sense either. Like organic peanut butter and organic honey. Peanuts have a fungus that is VERY toxic to humans in any quantity. Without the pesticide for the fungus, the peanuts are so risky. With bees, they're given specific preventative antibiotics and without them they usually get sick and die. :shrug: And besides, organic farms can never be free of the pesticides all around them, and as a result, you end up paying way more for something that isn't really organic, even if the farmer didn't spray himself.:shrug:

Sorry, :offtopic:

technodoll
January 4th, 2007, 01:44 PM
There are some organic things that just don't make sense either. Like organic peanut butter and organic honey. Peanuts have a fungus that is VERY toxic to humans in any quantity. Without the pesticide for the fungus, the peanuts are so risky. With bees, they're given specific preventative antibiotics and without them they usually get sick and die. And besides, organic farms can never be free of the pesticides all around them, and as a result, you end up paying way more for something that isn't really organic, even if the farmer didn't spray himself

i wonder how people survived before the invention of pesticides and antibiotics then? if things are so dangerous to eat... :confused: i'm thinking this is just propaganda marketed by the companies who produce said pesticides and antibiotics. Peanuts and honey have been consumbed by humans since the beginning of time and if it had been dangerous, it would have ceased... and also i doubt that in countries where farming is a more simple procedure that they use the massive amounts of pesticides and antibiotics that we do :shrug:

as for organic farming, there are strict rules and criteria to follow in order to qualify for the "organic" status, and that includes being a certain distance away from contaminated soil (not sure what the rules are for canada, i'd have to look it up) in order to ensure purity of the product...

i love organic foods but i admit the prices keep me away from it most of the time :o

Scott_B
January 4th, 2007, 01:45 PM
oh I agree 100%. The whole world is screwed lol.

LL1
January 4th, 2007, 04:51 PM
And what does organic mean?

http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2005-10-13/goods_foodstory.php

technodoll
January 4th, 2007, 08:26 PM
good enough for me! :thumbs up

Prin
January 4th, 2007, 08:32 PM
Aww, but they don't define "GMO-free". I'd love to hear their definition for that. EVERYTHING we eat is a GMO. Even our dogs are GMO.

technodoll
January 4th, 2007, 08:47 PM
EVERYTHING we eat is a GMO. Even our dogs are GMO.

you eat dogs? :eek: KIDDING :D

Prin
January 4th, 2007, 09:15 PM
I didn't say GME, I said GMO! :D (Genetically modified eatin's vs genetically modified organisms...)

gypsy_girl
January 5th, 2007, 07:47 PM
In regards to calcium oxylate crystals, PH of the urine, as well as the amount of calcium in the food are the areas where you need to look.
If you wish to do this you would need to look at the total amount of calcium in the diet per kilocalories, and see if it matches up to the food you are looking for. Normally when producing an acidic urine, struvite crystals prefer not to grow. However this is not the case with oxylate crystals, as they grow in varies degrees of acidity/alkalinity. There are options out there, but you need to do you research. I believe that www.azmira.com has a product to "grab" residual calcium to stop formation, but when I looked on the website I could not find the information, so you may want to call.
In relation to ash, ash in the total mineral content of a food, and the reason it is described as ash, as it is after cooking. "Ash" also exists in raw diets, however it would not be called that, as it is not cooked, it would be some of the minerals in their organic state. For this reason feeding a raw diet may or may not help this issues, depending on the amount of calcium (bone) inherent in the diet. It is great, however for struvite issues as it acidifies the urine.

mojo&morgan
January 5th, 2007, 07:54 PM
Just curious, I'm feeding my dog a food called Summit, that is supposed to be all natural and made in Canada, anyone familiar with it?

gypsy_girl
January 5th, 2007, 08:47 PM
I think that is made by the people that make GO Natural. When I looked at it, I liked it as a less expensive food, but they make better foods, and there are better foods out there.

Scott_B
January 5th, 2007, 09:08 PM
A lady at the park was telling me her pup was on summit and how great it was because its made by Medical. lol

gypsy_girl
January 5th, 2007, 09:25 PM
I just checked the website and Summit is made by the GO people, maybe there is another Summit????

Scott_B
January 5th, 2007, 09:34 PM
You mean made by medical? Not likely. She was just confused.

technodoll
January 5th, 2007, 11:09 PM
Petcurean makes Go! Natural, Foundations and Summit brand pet foods and in that order of quality.

maizeydaze
January 6th, 2007, 12:29 AM
Thank you Gypsy Girl for the info on calcium oxylate crystals. I'll be looking into this more. Hopefully I can find a diet that is beneficial to my cat. I have obtained the xrays from the vet so I can show them to surgens at a vet hostpital a coulpe of hours away. Maybe the crystals that he already has can be removed. They seem to cause him much discomfort in addition to the frequent infections.

Prin
January 6th, 2007, 12:36 AM
Good luck! :) :fingerscr

technodoll
January 6th, 2007, 09:33 AM
yes, good luck maizeydaze! :fingerscr

Stacer
January 6th, 2007, 10:44 AM
I had to go through the UTI/FLUTD dance a couple months ago. I had been feeding what I thought was a top quality food, and it was, except the mineral content (magnesium and phosphorous) and ash content was quite high. So after discussing with the vet that I didn't like Hill's regardless if it was prescription or not, I reluctantly bought a bag and vowed that I would use the month that he was on it to search for a better quality holistic food. I compared and analysed every holistic brand out there. I compared ash content and mineral content against the content in the prescription food (although I hated the ingredients, the Hill's did have the correct amount of ash and mineral content to maintain a healthy urinary system). I also took into consideration other ingredients such as cranberries that are known to promote urinary health. So with all of those factors I came to the conclusion that for my big boy Angus we were going to try him out on GO! Natural (Petcurean) based on mineral and ash content and the cranberries. I don't know if you can get Petcurean in the US as it is a Canadian company, but you could probably find something comparable. I also give Angus a UTI paste which I bought at a pet food store. I squeeze a teaspoon into his wet food and mix it in.

Hill's s/d has 8% Ash, 0.5% Phosphorous and 0.08% Magnesium, which are the amounts that maintain urinary health.

GO! Natural has 6.9% Ash, 0.09% Magnesium, they didn't have Phosphorous info, but I believe that Magnesium plays a more important role in crystal and stone formation than Phosphorous.

I could email you the chart that I made when I was in the thick of things if you think it will help you to decide which food to go with.

You could always go with what Technodoll said about the RAW, it is the best way to go if you've got the time and patience. It's the best guarantee that you won't have a reoccurance.

gypsy_girl
January 6th, 2007, 11:37 AM
Hi Everyone

Just to clarify, most cats get struvite crystals, and this is the area where in the past ash would be involved. Ash is comprised of minerals, hence looking for "low ash" was a way of the past. You would need to concentrate on the Magnesium content. These struvite crystals are different than what was mentioned in the previous post, as these are calcium based not magnesium based, and although raw may be an answer, it IS dependant on how much bone is included in the diet. This is NOT a factor in realtion to using raw for struvite crystals, as it is ideal diet for struvite. I have included a great article, however you may want to check with your vet, as I believe calcium oxylate crystals grow in a variety of PH, not just over acidic.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=1&cat=1402&articleid=2729

Good luck

OntarioGreys
January 9th, 2007, 07:00 AM
You mentioned you were rural, are you on well water?

Most drinking water contains minerals, on well water could maybe have higher levels of magnesium content in the water.

To help lower his daily magesium intake you could switch to using distilled which has all minerals removed or "purified" bottled water which will have most of the minerals removed http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2007.html
on it's own won't make a lot of difference, but when combined with diet may make enough of a difference so as to feed something better than the Science Diet and still achieve a low enough daily magnesium level

thebigoo
March 12th, 2008, 07:16 PM
Hey! I found the little pamphlet with the Kirkland ingredients-

Super Premium Cat Maintenance formula:
Chicken by-product meal, ground yellow corn, brewer's rice, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, natural chicken flavor, etc etc...

Crude protein: 30%
Crude fat: 20%
Crude fiber: 2%
Ash: 5%
Magnesium: 0.1%
Taurine: 0.1%


Whereas the dog Kirkland Super Premium Lamb and rice:
Lamb, lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, rice flour, white rice, egg product, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat, beet pulp, potatoes, fishmeal, flaxseed, natural flavor, millet, brewer's dried yeast, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, etc etc



Looks like Costco/Kirkland has upgraded, first 2 ingredients are now Ckicken, Chicken meal, no mention of any byproducts. At one half the cost of SD for 20%+ more food.