December 24th, 2006, 08:18 AM
I have been friends with a girl since elementary school and we are both now 20. Recently she has gotten a female alaskan malamute and then she got a male rottweiler who is huge. Both of her dogs are barely trained and behave poorly like jumping and not being potty trained and they are both about a year old. She is irresponsible with them and to worsen the situation she is not spaying or neutering either one of them and wants to breed each one seperately with another of their breed. She is going to do it to get out of debt, and knows nothing about either breed or raising a litter of puppies. I just feel horrible for the dogs, especially the malamute, I know that my friend is going to end up with Malamute and Rott mixes and she says that she will separate them. I dont want her to be a backyard breeder and I have been trying to talk her out of it, but I dont think she is going to listen is there anything I can do without ruining our friendship, but still helping the dogs. I just dont think she understands how complex puppy raising and breeding is. I dont know what to do...
December 24th, 2006, 09:00 AM
Unfortunately there is little that you can do that is not going to jepordize your friendship. Since she plans on breeding to get out of debt obviously she has no idea how expensive it is to raise a litter.
Is she prepared for emergency C-sections ( if need be)? Not likely,
Is she prepared for sick puppies or mother? Not likely,
What plans will she have in place if the mother can NOT deliver naturally?
What health tests have been done on the female and male --- none
Where is the future litter going to be housed for the 8 weeks? In the house?( I hope so)
How prepared is she for cleaning after a litter of pups?
Does she have any idea how much proper nutrition the female is going to need when she is expecting--- expect food costs to at least double.
There is no way that breeding puppies is going to get her out of debt. Some people are too ignorant.
What are her plans if there are 2 pups that dont find homes?Where will they go? to a shelter to be euthanized?
YOU can also print this up for her,its kinda a " what to expect" in a sarcastic way.http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=33325&highlight=Breeding
Some people on here didnt quite understand what it was getting across, but i think its worth a read for her.
Good luck changing her mind on the subject. I really hope she listens to you,
Also hit her with facts, on petfinder, check how many of the 2 breeds she plans on breeding and the possible mix and give her some numbers of those breeds already looking for loving homes that are currently in shelters, put there by back yard breeders themselves, looking for a quick buck.
December 25th, 2006, 06:02 PM
As harsh as this sounds...friends are honest with each other.
Surely you can find some way to tell her you think what she is doing is wrong, harmful to the animals involved and will likely put her in debt ~ without being confrontational or coming across as self-righteous. If you can't do that, then are you really being the best friend you can be ? Will you honestly be able to forgive and forget during this pregnancy and the rest the dogs will have before she finally figures it out or causes one of the dogs damage ?
Sometimes the best way to start these conversations is "This is going to be really hard for you to hear but you're my friend and I value your friendship too much not to say it..."
December 25th, 2006, 06:14 PM
I agree - I think in as diplomatic a way possible, explain to her how horrible byb is. Also, let her know that it costs a small fortune to breed cats or dogs or any small animal for that matter. As I have often noted here, the few ppl I know who breed one type of dog or cat (and with one exception, they are physicians with fairly good salaries) have spent more money that they'd eve planned on it and it costs them money, not just in terms of the vet bills and cost of caring for babies and mom but the loss of time at work (A friend had to cancel her appts for the day when her Yorkie went into premature labour. It was expected and the vet was prepared but still, it is no picnic.)
Not a single one of them makes money from this stuff - not that they planned to - but anyone who does think they can has absolutely no idea what they are doing and is hurting themselves financially and worse, harming the animals because they also need to have a mentor and ensure they have a Show quality dog with the proper pedigree and all the rest of it - which you can read on this site if you search.
I've had people ask me why I did not breed YY - who is a Show Quality and comes from a long line of winning show cats - and my answer was I was not certain I could afford it, did I know she would be a good mother (not all cats or dogs are and you only know that when you have a couple cats or dogs and have been in the biz for awhile) or even if she would like the show stuff and thus qualify to be bred. Plus, I was not allowing my baby near any male meezer for that purpose - platonic friendships are fine, lol - no matter how healthy he was and what good things the genetic testing said (That's another thing, do not forget to tell her about the genetic tests she'll have to pay for.). Call me an overprotective mother but my meezer is spayed and healthy and enjoying a relaxed life.
December 25th, 2006, 07:10 PM
In a perfect world, yes it will cost a lot of money to properly breed two dogs. However, this world is far from perfect. So really, lets go this scenario. You have a female rottie, you search on the net for a male that is offering services for $200. Your bitch takes. Voila, now you give her a couple of extra cups of Ole Roy per day.. Hmmm, it's costing you 80 cents per day to feed her. Gestation 60 days, $48. Now, you feed her another 6 weeks while she feeds the pups, $33.60. You don't bother to vaccinate at 6 weeks, because, hey, why add the cost. So far the pups have cost you $281.60. You sell the pups at $200 a pop and you're lucky enough to get 8 pups, so there's $1600 less the $281.60 it cost you to raise them. $1318.40 is what you end up with at the end of it all. Lucrative?, to some people yes as that's more than they would make working those 6 weeks. It's a sad fact but many are brought into this world along these lines so honestly I don't think the financial argument is going to cut it. This person is going to do it no matter what you say as their bottom line is money. Such is the life of a back yard breeding bitch. :(
December 25th, 2006, 07:25 PM
BMD, sadly you are prob right - some ppl just do not listen to reason or reality.
December 25th, 2006, 07:35 PM
try to find alot of pamphlets and articles on the internet that discuss raising a litter of pups and the amount of work involved. get well researched articles, and non attacking one (like articles designed for real breeders) so she doesnt feel attacked and maybe try to come across as trying to help her get all the info she can. maybe then she;ll come to her own conclusion that it will be too much effort.
plus eight puppies chewing, peeing, pooping, and eating. a 6-12 week old pup eats tons more than an adult and there will be several of them.
also shes not going to get good $$ for pups if they are not vet checked prior to sale so shell have to invest $$ before she can make any back.
if shes that hard up for cash maybe she could sell one of her adult dogs for $$(since shes obviously not caring for it well now anyways wouldnt be a bad idea to rehome it) and shed prob make just as much $$ because she wont have to invest anything extra to the dog she already has, then she would a little of pups.
December 25th, 2006, 09:24 PM
Inform your friend that Animal Control will fine her for running an unlicensed kennel, each animal on her property will have to have proof of vaccinations and each will have to be licensed. Thats all very expensive.
December 26th, 2006, 12:10 AM
Have her spend a day at a high kill shelter.
December 27th, 2006, 03:15 PM
Yea i plan to try to inform her of the high maitenance work of raising puppies. she thinks cause her dogs are AkC registered that her pups will go for no less than 500$$ which i dont think is true. I gonna plead with her to research it extensively before she starts. it wouldnt be so bad but shes going to be doing both breeds and both dogs. They are about to lose their house they are in such bad debt. I am going to try my best to get her not to do it and to at least neuter her male. I know that I would never want to put my baby through pregnancy..I would be so stressed and scared for her and me. I jsut dont undedrstand why she doesnt go the normal way and jsut get a job. I will be researching for her if she doesnt then share with her what i find, anything to keep her from becoming a byb.
December 27th, 2006, 03:50 PM
She doesn't sound as though she's thought this all through and she's looking at it as easy money. I wouldn't have much patience for her but I think that if you can muster up some patience you can maybe help these poor dogs. IF she can get these dogs to mate with two other dogs there are a ton of things to consider. Obvosly she's not considering the welfare of her dogs so that rgument wouldn't carry any weight anyway. She sees $$$ signs when she looks at them.
I would tell her that even if she can get two successful pregnancies out of these tow dogs in the next couple of months she will have financial outlay before any money comes in. Tell her that no one is going to buy a puppy that hasn't been vet checked and had it's shots. And show her an estimate for that from a vet. And remind her that no one is going to offer their dog's services without expecting compensation. And then remind her that not every puppy will get sold straight away and she may end up with the expense of keeping and caring (meaning costing her money) for these dogs.
So if she is in that much debt she can hope to maybe, if she's lucky, bring in a thousand bucks a few months from now ?????
She would be better off taking part time work, or selling a product at home parties if she doesn't want a 9-5 job.
This isn't going solve her financial problems at all--and unfortunately that's the only reasoning she's going to understand.