Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

progress is made!!

dogcatharmony
December 20th, 2006, 04:13 PM
I dont know if anyone remembers, I have a dog that is addicted to Purina and I have posted many times about trying to change her food. I just wanted to let you all know that Zoe ate her First raw bone last night!!!! I seared it for a few seconds...she would not accept it totally raw. Put it down after that and she was in heaven for most of the night!!! Going to try a chicken leg next week, dont want to overdo her.......... and I also got a few frozen turkey necks so keep those fingers crossed for me!!!!! Just one question, she can eat raw chicken bones right even if i have to sear it for a couple of seconds?? Thank you so much.

Scott_B
December 21st, 2006, 05:31 AM
Congrats! :D

I'm wondering, what exactly have you fed? You seem to put the emphasis on "bones" and in a raw diet, bones should only make up 10-15% of the diet. raw MEATY bones are great, but you want a lot of meat. A good starting point is a chicken 1/4, or even half a chicken depending on the size of your pooch. Feeding just bones will result in hard chalky white poo. However there is nothing wrong with giving a bone for a recreational chew, depending on the bone type, and what else your feeding, IE a meaty meal before or after.

And yeah, searing is ok. Just make sure you dont cook the bones! NEVER use a microwave to thaw somthing! Get the pan nice and hot and give it a quick few seconds. But again, if its just bones, no meat at all, Id be wary.

And I wouldn't worry about over doing it. Most raw feeders switch over completly and start cold turkey. Its a good idea to go slow with each meat source, feed just chicken for a few weeks until you know they can handle that. then introduce a new meat every other week as long as theyre doing ok.

dogcatharmony
December 21st, 2006, 10:12 AM
thankyou for your reply scottb. It was a meaty bone I gave her, that was why i was so surprised she ate it. She is an extremely picky dog, a few weeks back I gave her a turkey neck but she refused it the next time i tried. She only chewed on the bone for a little while and then i washed it and put it in the fridge, but all the meat was gone(not the turkey neck). I have also tried some raw pork, but she just licked it and walked away, she never ate that, also it tried ground turkey and she never touched that either. I am just taking it slow and being proud of her for every little step she takes, Hopefully one day I can get her off that nasty food!!! She seems to take more interest if the food is slightly seared that is why i asked if it was okay, and no worries about a microwave, I dont own one of those. once again thankyou

technodoll
December 21st, 2006, 10:26 AM
maybe she just doesn't like turkey ;)

my dogs also much prefer seared RMBs over fresh ones, their favorites are anything pork and some chicken. i find their tastes vary depending on the day, what's good one day may be "eeewwww" for the next 3 days :frustrated: Also some dogs like their raw meaty bones a bit "ripe" and stinky... like after it sat in the fridge for a few days. hope some of these tricks work for you :thumbs up

Scott_B
December 21st, 2006, 05:35 PM
Yup, just have to try and see what works. Be carefull to not make a fussy dog though. A hungry dog wont starve himself. So if he doesnt eat something at say breakfast, by all means offer it again at supper and again at the next meal. If he knows something better is coming along, then of course he'll wait.

Rosco had his first rabbit tonight :eek:

He kinda sniffed and licked it. But after a few moments he dug right in. Lots of crunching! :thumbs up I have one more to feed tomorrow for supper!

technodoll
December 21st, 2006, 08:53 PM
A hungry dog wont starve himself

scott, you'd be surprised... i unfortunately own one of those rare dogs :frustrated: he can and did starve himself down to skin and bones and would be quite unhealthy today if we hadn't taken matters into our own hands and started to force-feed him. now he's in superb form but if we don't feed him... he won't eat enough to sustain his caloric needs :shrug:

Scott_B
December 22nd, 2006, 04:53 AM
What do you mean if you dont feed him? How else would he eat? To get to skin and bones a dog has to go aa while without food. If they are healthy, there is no reason for them to starve themselves. That just doesnt make sense. On the other hand, a dog with health issues is a whole other thing. And actually, what I meant to say in the post above was "a healthy dog wont starve himself". Dogs know they have to eat.

technodoll
December 22nd, 2006, 09:41 AM
scott, i have a really fussy dog... until you've lived through that hell with one yes i can believe it's hard to imagine... but it's true. :o

we ran the bloodtests, fecal test, etc and both the allopathic vet and the holistic vet said "he's fine, some dogs just aren't into food and it's his personality" . From the day we got him at 10 weeks of age to this September, we went through every possible food regime you can imagine: nothing worked, it was always the same thing:

day one: oh! new food! i like it!
day two: hey. i had this before. wth?
day three: i ain't touchin' that.
day four, five, six, seven.... : just watch me not eat meal after meal after meal... :frustrated:

we tried the "put food down, take it away after 20 mins, offer again at the next meal" so many times, we had to throw hundreds of dollars' worth of food in the trash because after a while it went bad, while slowly but surely his ribs, spine and hips became visible through that akita coat. it was pathetic. he was starving himself and only wanted to eat bread and milk bones - which is no diet. and the less he ate, the less appetite he had, the less energy, he slept more, his coat went to hell, he looked awful.

one day hubby got sooo fed up and he said "you don't wanna eat? fine. I'll MAKE you eat!" and he sat dakotah down and shoved ground meat down his throat, one little ball at a time. we started making our own ground raw mixes and supercharging his food, feeding him twice per day at 3% of his body weight, and LO and BEHOLD, six weeks later he had gained 12 lbs of muscle, his ribs and spine were finally not sticking out like a starved rescue dog, his coat became soft and shiny, his mood and energy levels skyrocketed.... we got our dog back.

not much has changed in his disposition towards food, i'm afraid. it really is part of his personality. if we stop feeding him his ground raw meals he will again lapse back into just picking at his food and rapidly lose weight. now that his body has more muscle to maintain, he will quite often eat his raw meaty bones in the evening but nothing else, so we compromise. Breakfast is the main meal and fed to him, night is raw meaty bones but if he does not eat those, we will feed him his dinner, too.

since we stopped feeding him kibble he is no longer burping and farting, which is good since there is a history of bloat in his family and we are trying to reduce the risks. we will never feed anything but raw and we limit the grains to an occasional piece of frozen whole-wheat bread (his favorite!) and a tiny bit of overcooked rice in the ground boiled veggie mix (about 5% of his diet).

some may view this as extreme but we view it as part of parenting this special dog, it works for him and it works for us so... :thumbs up

Scott_B
December 22nd, 2006, 09:50 AM
Really, I cant argue with that, other then to say fussy dogs are made, not born that way. A dog will do whatever it takes to survive.

That said, I don't have a fussy dog, far from it. And really I'm going from experience and what I read from other people and their experiences. But I totally agree, some dogs just don't like certain things. But it just does not make sense to me that a healthy dog would rather starve themselves then eat. :shrug:

technodoll
December 22nd, 2006, 10:09 AM
Scott it doesn't make sense to me either but that's the situation.. :frustrated:

There are degrees of starvation... He will eat just enough to sustain life, but not more. Do I want a dog that is 20 lbs underweight, has no energy and looks like crap? :rolleyes: He needs about 3000 calories per day to maintain his shape and there is no way in hell he will eat that much by himself, specially not in raw, lowfat food (btw 3000 calories is only 2.35 lbs of regular raw ground beef but RMBs are not as calorie-dense, neigher is raw fish, etc).

I think the OP is in the same boat, her dog is very fussy albeit healthy, dakotah can't be the only case on the planet LOL! or is he? :eek: guiness book of world records here we coooome! :D

Stacer
December 22nd, 2006, 10:11 AM
Wow, Techno I never realized you've had such a hard time with Dakotah, that's a crazy story. Threadjack:sorry:

technodoll
December 22nd, 2006, 10:27 AM
yeah, it's pretty nuts! for years hubby and I kept wailing "why us?" :yell: but we've come to a calm acceptance of the situation now and Life Is Good, everybody is happy and healthy :thumbs up

ps: when he sees us put the towel on the floor he comes over and sits on it, wags his tail and opens his mouth. BIG baby. :king:

me too, sorry for the threadjack! :sorry:

Scott_B
December 22nd, 2006, 11:08 AM
Well, you answered everything right there. He WILL eat something. Just not enough. Like I said, a healthy dog will not starve themselves. If he has to eat just enough to keep going, then so be it. That said, Of course I would not continue to feed my dog that way and I believe your doing an excellent job with Dakotah! He looks fab!

technodoll
December 22nd, 2006, 11:14 AM
thank you scott :o and i'm sorry i was not clear before on the definition of "starving", LOL!

i'll have to post a video someday of him getting a meal... it's quite funny :D

Scott_B
December 22nd, 2006, 11:22 AM
Please do! I'm going to snap some pics of Rosco eating his rabbit tonight as well :D

bogwog
December 24th, 2006, 11:56 AM
dogcatharmony - way to go :) Won't be long and she'll be crunching them down!

When I switched Squeak to raw she was not enthusiastic at first. But she liked cooked chicken so I started her on that and just cooked it less and less till it was raw. For bones I started her on raw chicken necks. I would wrap a couple up in a chicken skin from one of those grocery store roasted chickens and leave them to marinate for a day or two. I still had to hold the first couple for her till she figured out how to eat them, but it worked :) Now she eats pretty much anything.

Kristin7
December 24th, 2006, 01:26 PM
One of my friend's dogs wouldn't eat much either. He was really thin, not starving, but probably the least food-oriented dog I've ever seen - an anatolian/great pyr mix. He would only eat Purina also and was at least 30 lbs at least underweight throughout his life, along with a poor coat. He wasn't starving though, but did eventually die of cancer at the relatively young age of 7. Poor guy, he was a sweetie. I miss him...:rip:

dogcatharmony
December 24th, 2006, 01:28 PM
i am having a hard time finding chicken parts, but I have spoke to a butcher near by and he said if i am serious about picking them up he would have no problem putting some chicken parts aside for me in the new year. Things have been going good, she prefers seared meat, I could care less if I had to dress it up and make it talk for her to eat it I would because it means the purina is going where it should be........the garbage!!!!! :party:

bogwog
December 24th, 2006, 01:50 PM
Nothing wrong with seared meat, I imagine it has a bit stronger flavour than totally raw.

I can rarely find chicken necks now either. What do they do with them all? I can't order in large amounts as I only have the fridge freezer. I found that the really big chains like extrafoods and superstore have frozen chicken backs in packs of 4 or 5, sometimes with the necks (but they are really tiny - I feed them to my cat). And I buy packs of chicken legs and thighs too.

technodoll
December 25th, 2006, 10:33 PM
Things have been going good, she prefers seared meat, I could care less if I had to dress it up and make it talk for her to eat it I would because it means the purina is going where it should be........the garbage!!!!!

:D that was funny :D

keep it up, sounds like things are slowly but surely going great! :highfive: my two demolished a big bowl of raw, seared bone-in turkey parts (leg and wing) tonight, after ignoring that meal for 3 days. goes to show how silly dogs can be sometimes eh? :D