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border collies

doggy lover
March 9th, 2004, 02:32 PM
Could any one help me out I am thinking of buying a border collie, I know they are active both physically and mentaly but on the medical level what are they like. Are there many health problems and how common are they. I recently lost my bernese x german sheppard to bone cancer he also had OSD when he was 7 months that had to be surgically corrected and he had bloat at 5 years of age which was also surgically corrected, and i know these are all related to the larger breed dogs.

Lucky Rescue
March 9th, 2004, 02:35 PM
There is someone on this board is who quite an expert on border collies - I hope she will show up!

mona_b
March 9th, 2004, 02:40 PM
I'm sorry for your loss.

Here is a link to the health of a Border Collie.

My sister has one along with 3 Siberian Huskies.

They are on a farm,so Abby get lots of exercise.And loves to heard the cows.LOL.


http://www.bordercollie.org/vet.html

Luba
March 9th, 2004, 03:15 PM
Doggie Lover

There is a border collie dalmation mix at the Toronto Humane society that has been there for a very long time.

Her name is Matilda and I've posted her in the adoption section of this board, please go have a look at her.

She will according to THS make a wondeful dog if shes' the only dog in the home.

:D

doggy lover
March 10th, 2004, 08:54 AM
Thanks for your help, we won't be getting a dog until later in the summer. As we are going on a trip to the east coast of Quebec to visit my inlaws. This way I don't have to worry about a doggy sitter. My friend use to come in and stay with my other dog when we went there for a visit, but this time she can just come over and feed the cats and lizard. I just trying to reserch this breed, I have read that they arn't that great as pets because of the herding instincts? My Bernese x (Travis) herded sheep once that was loose on our property up north, it was kind of funny since he had no training, but I didn't let him do it for long didn't want to scare the sheep. He crouched down behind them and got up real close then barked at them, interesting to watch.

mona_b
March 10th, 2004, 09:07 AM
Actually,they make great pets.

I have watched a dog agility group that puts on a show.It's called Superdogs.The majority are Border Collies.They say as long as you keep the breed active and busy,they make the greatest pets.

:D

LavenderRott
March 10th, 2004, 09:12 AM
I considered getting a BC last year. I saw the cutest puppies and I really wanted one of those fuzzballs!

Someone much wiser then me (thank you Carina) talked me out of it.

BC's are great family pets but they are quite active. Definately not your hiking on the weekend kind of dog. More like your marathon runner type.

Lucky Rescue
March 10th, 2004, 10:14 AM
More like your marathon runner type

Yeah! LOL! Someone experienced with the breed had this to say: "Border collies MUST have a job. If they don't, they will find one on their own, and it's guaranteed that you aren't going to like it". :D

LavenderRott
March 10th, 2004, 12:44 PM
Border collies MUST have a job.

And we aren't talkin' bringing in the morniing paper here! We are talking New York messenger !

amaruq
March 10th, 2004, 01:50 PM
I have a border collie x Dal mix. She has the BC traits. You have to keep their minds working. If you don't you won't like what they come up with. They are on alert 24/7. Very energetic hyper dog.

I take mine every day for 1-2 hour walks and sometimes more. Motzi (BCx) will want more. She tries to herd the other dogs (Have Dal and a Heinz 57)...she tries to herd us.

If you want a BC be prepared for the smarest dog ever. They will try to outwit you! But excercise is a must and every day! I agree with give the dog a job.

Carina
March 10th, 2004, 08:26 PM
I was raised with them; my mother had working BCs for her sheep. I believe they are very healthy dogs...epilepsy may be a concern (I'm not sure about that though.)

They can be absolute hellions if they are not kept busy. They are able to easily run 20-30 miles a day. They're incredibly smart dogs, can be quite sharp, and yes they need a job! They can also get vocal if bored, and aren't always great with other dogs because they do that eye thing.

They're amazing dogs though. :) Hopefully the board BC expert will chime in here...

Oh - read this! It's hilarious:
http://www.laughingdogpress.com/breeds/bordercollie01.html

RDM
March 12th, 2004, 10:16 PM
WHOA

"Actually,they make great pets.

I have watched a dog agility group that puts on a show.It's called Superdogs.The majority are Border Collies.They say as long as you keep the breed active and busy,they make the greatest pets."

and

"BC's are great family pets but they are quite active."

Hate to burst your bubbles, folks, but border collies are NOT "great family pets." Nor are they "great pets."

They are AMAZING DOGS and they are *fantastic* working companions. They are also fussy, weird, obsessive, neurotic, intense and prone to temperament issues. Let's be realistic.

The average border collie in a non-working (and I define working as working STOCK) home is a dog who is going to demand a few hours of constructive exercise every day. A typical day for my dogs sees them getting a minimum of two hours of hard core aerobic activity every day, on top of herding, agility, flyball and competitions in all three activities.

How many busy "families" do you know that can offer that kind of intense physical workout for their dogs every single day? On top of work, soccer practice, ballet class, the flu, homework, cooking, cleaning etc?

When you think about a border collie, think about this: the breed was created to perform a physically demanding and mentally draining task in challenging environments with little reward and only a solitary shepherd for companionship. They are bred to think independently, to have an innate need to control and temperament was never the primary consideration when breeding. They didn't have to be good with kids, nice to strangers, or good with other dogs because when they weren't working on the hills and dales of Britain, they were chained up or kennelled up until needed again.

There's a border collie in a nutshell for you ... demanding, tireless, pushy and controlling, temperamentally suspect and supremely intense.

Does that sound like a "great pet" or a "great family dog" to anyone here?

My dogs are my pets, but they are foremost my working companions. They would be completely unhappy in a home where they expected to laze around, go for a nice walk when the owner feels like it and otherwise just hang around being doggie. Instead, they are in your face, asking to play, obsessing on shadows or tennis balls or the cats. They are smarter than your average bear, and that makes them MORE challenging to train. Give them an inch, they will take a mile. Give them a mile and they will run for President.

It's so unfair to perpetuate the myth that the breed is a great pet, because that myth is exactly why so many of them end up in shelters or rescue. Most people are not prepared to live with a border collie ... as my partner so succinctly put it one day, when the dogs were driving him nuts, "Why couldn't you just get DOGS??"

Before anyone jumps down my throat; there ARE exceptions to the rule. Breed away from working ability long enough and you will dumb down the very things that make a border collie a border collie. Sometimes a laid back individual shows up in a litter for no reason at all. There are some border collies that are just big suck buckets and nothing more - I know, I've placed them. But they are the exception to the rule, not the norm.

Please don't BUY a border collie. The only people who should be breeding them are working and trialling stock people. The only people they should be selling them to are working and / or sport performance homes. If a breeder is willing to sell you a border collie because they've got 'em for sale and you want one, that should be a BIG red flag. I have 19 border collies in rescue right now, 7 of them are 4 week old puppies dumped in a kill shelter with their mum when they were 3 days old. We place almost 100 dogs a year. There is no good reason to BUY a border collie as a pet when there are literally hundreds up hundreds of them languishing in shelters and rescues looking for homes. I got 6 requests in a 3 day period to take in dogs, and that's not unusual, if that gives you any idea just how many there are needing homes.

Talk to rescue. Listen to what they have to say. Evaluate yourself honestly and fairly. If you can't give a border collie what it needs, don't get a border collie.

Lucky Rescue
March 12th, 2004, 11:31 PM
Evaluate yourself honestly and fairly. If you can't give a border collie what it needs, don't get a border collie

Excellent advice. This applies to many other breeds too!

mona_b
March 13th, 2004, 12:04 AM
Well RDM,along with my sister owning one,I do know of others.And they do think that the BC make great pets.

Abby works very hard on the farm.When her work is done,she will just lay around or play around with the other dogs.She is very calm and layed back.She gets tons of exercise.She is not overly demanding either.And she is a great family dog.There are 4 teenagers in the household also.And it does get very busy at times also.The majority being with hockey practice and hockey games.But Abby still gets her workout.

My best friends parents also had a border collie for 13 years.They lived in a house on my street where I grew up.Mind you this was many many years ago.And her dad till this day still talks about her and says what a great dog she was.And his brother has 2.He brought them over at his open house at christmas.They were very calm,well trained and not hyper.And they have always had this breed.They have a large property that Jake and Sasha love.They get alot of exersise.And are very happy healthy dogs.

And like I said before,the owners of the BC at the Superdog show say they make great pets.:)

amaruq
March 13th, 2004, 09:10 AM
I 100% agree with RDM!!!!!!!!!!

Motzi is on the 24 hours a day. If its not running (Which she will do for hours on end) You have to play ball with her. She is on alert all the time!
I stay at home all day..its a good thing I do because I think she would go squirrelly in the house.

She herds the other dogs. If the move out of her zone she will chase them down and use her body to make them turn. If that doesn't work she barks right in their ear.

You have to be into excercise..and have time for them. I have the dal and they told me how hyper they are. They don't even come close to Motzi. My dal is a huge couch potato!!!!!

RDM
March 13th, 2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by mona_b
Well RDM,along with my sister owning one,I do know of others.And they do think that the BC make great pets.

Well of course, you know a couple border collies and "Superdogs" said they are good pets, therefore my 15 years of experience with the breed and the fact that I run a rescue dedicated to the breed doesn't mean anything. Makes sense.

Believe what you will. But have the decency not to argue with someone who cleans up after the myth of "border collies are super pets for everyone" unless you want to come and do my work for me. I'm not typing his stuff because I like the sensation of the keyboard on my fingertips, okay? I'm trying to present a realistic, honest evaluation of the breed based on the fact that I place about 100 of the of them a year (and could rescue double that number if only I had enough foster homes to take them all in) and about 75% of them are turned in because they were just too much work for people who believed something similar to the hype you're spouting and got themselves a border collie.

I don't do any people, or any dogs, a favour by telling people "yup, the border collie is the ultimate pet" because it's not true. They are not an easy breed to live with, and it takes a certain kind of person to own a border collie.

I think border collies are fantastic companions ... for the RIGHT PEOPLE. Why the heck else would I devote my life to the breed? But they are not what people typically want when they think of a "pet" dog. I think Sue Sternberg is a freaky lady, but one I thing I do agree with her on is that the average adopter is not looking for an intense, high drive, WORKING dog ... they are looking for an easy going, good natured, laid back pal. It's not fair to tell those people that a border collie fits the bill, because despite your extensive experience with seeing Superdogs on television, that's simply not true.

RDM

Lucky Rescue
March 13th, 2004, 01:10 PM
Abby works very hard on the farm.When her work is done,she will just lay around or play around with the other dogs.She is very calm and layed back.She gets tons of exercise

Precisely. The hard work and tons of exercise are probably WHY she is a great pet!:)

Put her into an average suburban household, with owners gone 8 hours a day and who think a quick walk will suffice, and you might see very different behaviors. Sadly, in this type of home, Abby would probably end up being dumped as well.

BlackDog
March 13th, 2004, 07:44 PM
Personally, as a Border Collie owner myself, I say unless you have the time, space, and willingness to work with this dog all the time.... Then NO.

If my red and white Border Collie, Queen, could talk, she'd be saying: "Work, Run, chase llamas. Work, run, chase llamas. Pant, rest. Llama getting away, run, work, chase llamas."

She lives on a 212 acre farm, and she is used along with two other "farmdogs" [two black/white Borders] to help herd a large herd of llamas.


She can barely sit still without her eyes following something, she'll look at me whenever I AM resting as if to say "what you doing? works not over yet?"


If Queen was in a town or city, she'd be bored silly. And turn her attention to herding kids [trust me, my uncle has one, and the dog contiunally nips his and his kids on their heels, it isn't nice].

Seriously think about the TIME and ATTENTION you can give the dog before you buy one...

I know they are cute puppies, but that puppy will turn into a working animal that won't stop.

Carina
March 13th, 2004, 07:51 PM
Well having also grown up with BCs, I agree with you guys who say they are rarely good family pets. If you get one that's calm & laid back & doesn't want to herd everything in sight, that's NOT a typical BC!

Personally I adore the breed. Along with Rottweilers :) they have got to be the smartest, coolest dogs in the world. But I just couldn't deal with that level of hyperness anymore.

Murph's Mom
March 13th, 2004, 08:20 PM
Doggy Lover-

RDM is right. You need to think long and hard before deciding you would like to add a BC to your family.

Before our present puppy I have been lucky enough to have a Corgi, a Husky, a Poodle and a Jack Russell Terrier. Our present puppy is a 7 month old male BC. He is a WONDERFUL addition to my family but even all the warnings and reading I did before we brought Murphy home we're not enough to prepare me for the real thing. Murphy is an adorable, loyal, lovable companion. He is smart, quick and tireless. If you want to be able to spend some quiet time with your dog (cuddles while watching TV, a companion while reading) a BC is not the answer. I'm not saying it never happens only that it does not happen often unless he has been well exercised.
Murphy is walked twice a day (minimum 1 hr each time), has run and play time with other dogs, and is in training, which we do for 15 minutes 4 times a day. All if this is JUST enough to keep Murphy satisfied. Should his day lack any one of those things then there is no quiet when he is in the house. He will constantly be under my feet and bringing toys- should I choose to ignore this ( and I would recommend that you don't) he WILL find something to do (whether it be eat the bathroom garbage, chase the cat and just plain get into anything he can).

I am not telling you this to discourage you only to help you be aware of what a non-working BC is like in the oridinary home.

RDM is also correct that not all BC's are like this but the number of them who aren't is very small and hard to find.

Do I wish I had picked another breed? Nope! Murphy is exactly what we were looking for and is an amazing additon to our family.
I did not mention the health problems as the link mona_b gave you was good.

Good luck with your quest and your decision!! Be sure to let us know when you make the addition to your family!!:)

anniebananie
March 13th, 2004, 11:00 PM
I used to own one when we lived in the UK - many moons ago. They are great companions for children - rounding them up all the time. I also had one when I was a child - a X I think - BC and Spaniel - he was a really super dog - and the local farmer used to *borrow* him for herding his cows - never quite sure how that worked out - whether the farmer borrowed him - or the dog borrowed the cattle, in between herding my brother and myself around. The do need a super amount of walking/running - and DO NEED a job - or otherwise you will find feather anything *mulched* while you are out. Both the ones I knew had feather fetishes :D

Luba
March 14th, 2004, 12:42 PM
LOVE the new signature Murph Smurf ;)

doggy lover
March 14th, 2004, 08:59 PM
:confused: Wow guys thanks for all your input, and I will take it all into concideration especially
RBD. What type of dog would you concider???????? May be a little info about me? I have grown up and always had dogs from GSD to poodle mixes ect... I have two teen kids very active jogging, cycling and so on, my daughter wants to train agility, I also enjoy long walks. We have a park 5 min away that is no leash park, we also own 16 acres of land up north that backs onto 200 acres of bush, which we stay at often. I am into life time ownership none of my animals have ever gone to Pounds, I don't even send stray animals there I find their homes or new homes. My last dog was taken to puppy classes and Ob. training. I don't want a couch potato, and I prefer herding dogs. So does anyone have any ideas???????

Carina
March 14th, 2004, 09:37 PM
Oh - medium/large breed active friendly dogs - you have a ton of choices! Are you looking for a puppy? There's probably a zillion young dogs in rescue & shelters you could choose from. :)

Labs, Goldens, Standard Poodles, GSDs, Rottweilers :) :) - a kid who works for me has an extremely cool Lab/Chow mix who pulls him on his skateboard with a harness, gets along with everybody, and is cute as can be. I'm of course partial to Rottweilers, they can be just awesome family dogs. But they are more challenging to raise than many other breeds - on a side note they are the only non-herding dog eligible for AKC herding titles, they were drover dogs. ;)

Does anyone know how rough or smooth coated collies (the Lassie type) compare with BCs?
How about Corgis? Despite their little short legs they are extremely hardy dogs with tons of stamina - they are also herding dogs, used mostly in Wales. Plus they are extremely friendly and trainable dogs.
The Cardigans have tails:
http://www.cardigancorgis.com/versatileFrames.htm
Pembrokes don't:
http://www.compupets.com/pwcac/

doggy lover
March 14th, 2004, 09:57 PM
Oh sorry med sized herding not going into large breeds again for a while love them but their lifes
are too short and yes i know there is no way to know how long your dog could live for

anniebananie
March 14th, 2004, 10:06 PM
Jack Russells have all that you need - without the major energy level - almost but not quite the same as BC's. I have two and they are the love of our lives. They are both very inteligent - and love running - training and sleeping (well mine do anyway). Having had BC's - I find JR's calmer in most respects - but toned down from a BC;)

Lucky Rescue
March 14th, 2004, 11:03 PM
Medium sized herding breed - and high energy goes without saying...what about an Australian Shepherd?

Smooth and rough (Lassie) collies have nowhere near the drive and energy of BCs. They are good watchdogs, not normally aggressive, and loving and loyal companions.

A smooth collie may be the better choice, since the rough - with the massive coats they are bred for now - would not be very active in the summer and would probably spend the whole season lying under the deck, like my collie x did.:(

Smooth collies are big, but are capable for living quite a long time.:)

Good idea Carina! I vote for smooth collie.:D

Oh, and Standard poodle is also a great option, but you must keep in mind the grooming needs.

rexdoggieowner
July 30th, 2004, 02:40 PM
i have an 8th month old border collie X ( i think its with a retriever) and he is ALOT OF WORK... but so sweet at the same time-- feel free to ask any questions that you still have!!

doggy lover
September 23rd, 2004, 08:47 PM
Hi guys it has been a while, we got a new puppy and decided to go with a border collie, we researched, talked to our vet and other owners of bc's and the whole family decided that it was the best dog for us. We have been busy with the new pup he is very busy and we are enjoying every minute of it.

Kona Dawg
September 23rd, 2004, 09:39 PM
Nice pup, In another year or two I'm going to get Kona(Golden/BC x) a BC buddy. The red's are one of my favorite colours, but if I can find a good blue merle I think I may get that. Good luck with your new dog, as long as you stay active(sun,snow,rain, hail, hurricane..)and get in some kind of mentally stimulating games you and your dog will do great! Just watch out for "the eye"

rexdoggieowner
September 23rd, 2004, 10:24 PM
aww.. he is beautiful.... have lots of fun with him :) keep us posted

glasslass
September 24th, 2004, 12:16 PM
I missed this thread before. Not taking sides re BC's but do want to say that my Pop had a black & white BC (came from working parents) for years. Tippy was the most gentle dog I have ever known. He was 3 months older than my toy poodle. When he was 5 months old, he showed his gentleness when he tried to play with my 8 week old puppy, being very careful with him. At the beach, Tippy would wait at the edge of the water intently watching kids in the water with his BC stare. So protective! Pop was a farrier and took him with him while he worked. Tippy helped him capture horses when necessary. Pop never had a problem with him being aggressive to the ranch owner's dogs when he was working. They were a terrific team together. Both are gone now. I still vividly remember the tennis balls Tippy would jam between my legs from behind when I least expected it. Thanks for bringing back the memories. I hope you and your puppy will have many happy times.

skunkney
September 25th, 2004, 03:47 AM
I owned a Border Collie mix. Her mother was Border Collie/Shephard and the father was a Black Lab. She didn't come from a breeder but turned out to be a healthy and happy dog. She had the typical black and white BC markings but had a smoth coat, not the long curly hair. She didn't do the herding thing, but was tirelessly obsessed with fetch and retrieval. The nice thing was though that I guess because she was a mixed breed she was maybe a little calmer than a purebreed. She loved to play fetch, but if that wasn't happening, she was still happy focussing on something else. I've never owned a purebreed BC, but they seem maybe a bit more 'intense' than this. Am I wrong?

By the way, does anyone know if it's possible to tell a long hair from a smooth hair BC at puppy age? I didn't, but just got lucky (turned out to be my preference).

Also, would there be breeders out there that would mix their BC's with other breeds? I want another BC mix someday but don't know if I wanna go through the classifieds.

Thanks!

testbeaker
September 25th, 2004, 05:07 PM
Now I'm worried about my BC/lab cross and how hyper he may be. :confused:

As I said this is our first dog and we got him from THS.

So far, he is fairly active.

We take outside to do his business and about 1/2-1 hour of play time twice a day. We let him play as well, if he does his business.


He seems to be tuckered out after this sessions and settles in for a nap.

He has been able to stay dry through the night for most of the week that we've had him. He is now 10 weeks.

Any advice on what I should expect from my baby.

I'm reading tons of info but a lot of it is conflicting

Thanks in advance.

heeler's rock!
September 25th, 2004, 07:34 PM
Congrats on the new pup! I looked into different coloured BC's and wastold that there are actually health risks in some of the merle borders, as they are more of a colour mutation. When the colour came out, people would inbreed to keep the colour, thus resulting in bad pups. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I stuck with the traditional black and white when choosing my BC, as red and brown aren't "normal" colours either.... Here's a pic om my Kia!

heeler's rock!
September 25th, 2004, 07:38 PM
I find Kia to be rather calm for a BC. She has the right amount of activity, but won't run around the house all day begging to go out. She isn't obsessive and is just content. She's ready to go when we are, but enjoys lounging as much as playing. She does need a "job" though so she doesn't get too bored and it helps to keep her mantally stimulated, so we put her in flyball which she seems to like.

As for BC crosses Skunkney, just look on petfinder and you'll find tons. No need to find an irresponsible breeder that happens to have crossbreeds lying around....

Writing4Fun
September 25th, 2004, 08:49 PM
I looked into different coloured BC's and wastold that there are actually health risks in some of the merle borders, as they are more of a colour mutation.
I remember reading somewhere that you can't breed merles with merles because of health issues, but I think that was applying to Australian Shepherds, not Border Collies. Interesting that a colour should play such an important role in health, don't you think? I wonder if there's a similar issue with Chocolate Labs, as I heard that they were once considered "unnatural mutations" and were put down at birth. :confused:

glasslass
September 25th, 2004, 09:57 PM
Found it! This was 5 mo. old Tippy giving the "eye" to 8 wk old Den-Den3, his own little lambie-pie. :D

skunkney
September 26th, 2004, 12:40 AM
glasslass: wow Tippy looked awesome! Lovely smooth hair and looks like one ear pointed while other flops? hehehe.

testbeaker: congrats on the new pup! Mine gave me as much as I could handle the first year. Chewed the corner off my coffee table, tried tunneling through the wall, chewed everything she could. Basically if you leave them on their own for too long they will take matters into their own hands. Don't be too hard on it for this. I got lucky and was able to start taking mine to work. I would recommend arranging someone to at least walk him every 3 or 4 hours if you are unable to. Also, I read an article on BC's that said they needed at least 2 hours of exercise a day. Like straight out running/fetching. The tennis ball and raquet worked well : D I knew she'd had enough when she would be panting so fast she sounded like a little engine chuggin away. She stopped destroying things after about a year and became very well behaved. The obsessive work ethic seems to be indefinite though, hehe.

glasslass
September 26th, 2004, 02:27 PM
Give him a basketball or volleyball. He'll root and herd it all around the yard for hours. :D

skunkney
September 26th, 2004, 07:49 PM
Tippy looks like a border collie crossed with one or two other breeds, judging by the smooth coat (but i'm no expert). If he was, do you know what they were?

glasslass
September 26th, 2004, 09:17 PM
Actually, Tippy came from a sheep ranch near Petaluma CA. His parents were both working BCs and also competed in herding competitions. He's only 5 mos. old in these pictures. His coat became quite thick, but was medium length and wavy, not curly. We were told he was pure, but no papers. They're not AKC, but something else when registered. BCs aren't recognized by AKC. Here's his face.

glasslass
September 26th, 2004, 09:20 PM
As an adult, Tippy's hair was similar to our friend's BC, Flyer. Flyer's mom had curlier hair.

skunkney
September 26th, 2004, 09:24 PM
Hehe, ok thanks. Goes to show how much I know. His coat definitely looks longer from that angle. Nice lookin dog. He sure is focussed on that little fluffball. LoL!!!

glasslass
September 26th, 2004, 09:33 PM
Uhhhh! I think that was my hubby's poor attempt to remove "red eye" from the photo. Didn't notice it so much when I cropped and enlarged it. :D

Now meet Ruby, our friend's BC puppy. She's about 5 mos. old - BC mother - unknown father. The mom had her pups in a friends barn. They kept the mom and found homes for the pups. Ruby's ears look like Tippy's.

Kona Dawg
September 27th, 2004, 02:48 AM
BC's are recognized by the AKC, but they aren't recognized by the CKC.
Working BC's do have their own registry also though. http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/border.cfm

doggy lover
October 21st, 2004, 09:52 PM
Hi guys Tucker is busy but fine he is now 5 months and will be going in next month to get fixed. These dogs are too smart he already knows about 5 tricks and has figured out how to undo our screen door. We have been buying him all kinds of things to chew on as these dogs are part beaver, and we would like to keep our furniture. We keep him busy with walks\runs and playing games in house too, always on the go, we also have two cats to herd as well. As for problems with merles I have also heard they have problems but reds are just the resesive gene of black and white bc's Tuckers mom and dad are black and white. Only him and one other pup was red out of nine pups.There is also another forum on Border Collies if anyone wants more info on bc's important stuff like drugs that they can be deadly alergic too. I have found out alot of info from them, its www.bordercolliezone.com

Bill & Gail
January 18th, 2005, 10:46 AM
Good morning everyone! I am brand new here...my first visit! We are a retired couple who are pretty active & we have just adopted a puppy that is a Blue Healer/Border Collie "mix". Any advice for us? We live in Northwestern Ontario...lots of snow right now...urban living with a large backyard. The puppy is 2 months old...loves to be outside in the snow...will play if we are out there, even if we aren't playing with him. He is very active...personable....loving & very very social with everyone who visits! My first question is how soon does he need to see a vet? I plan to call a local vetcare company to see what they charge, but since we are on pensions, we don't have a huge amount of extra cash. We are being careful with feeding him...not scraps from the table, feeding a good brand name food without a lot of fillers (advice from our daughter who has gone through lots of brands with their dog). I know we are very much novices with this...never owned a dog in the past...life was too busy, now that we are home more, we thought it would be good to have an active companion. We want to do our best for this little guy! Thanks in advance for your help...i will read all posts! regards! :ca:

mastifflover
January 18th, 2005, 11:33 AM
Bill and Gail welcome to pets.ca we are always pleased to have new members. I hope you are enjoying the new addition to your family. There are a couple of members that have heelers and B/C which will be able to offer all kinds of info on the breeds. I would work on getting that throwing arm in shape because you will be getting a lot of excersise now.

RDM
January 23rd, 2005, 03:29 PM
There are no health problems associated with the colour of a border collie. There are health issues with certain lines of border collies, namely AKC dogs imported from New Zealand, who are carriers of something called "Storage Disease." But aside from this known contingent, there are no known correlations between colour and health in the border collie breed.

The "brown" colour someone quotes above is actually referred to as RED in North American (In NZ and OZ it's referred to as "Chocolate" because they have a yellow/orange colour that is a true red gene, not a colour we see here very much). The red dogs are popular in Wales and many red dogs have Welsh dogs in their genetic make up. The colour is not "unusual" it's simply recessive, and so, harder to get.

The border collie is bred for working ability and colour is not a consideration. Many triallers and ranchers do not necesarily favour the black and white dog, but rather, since most of the dogs in the country are black and white, they breed from them to get dogs of similar quality thus red dogs do not show up as much. Most merles you see will be AKC bred or dogs bred for colour or conformation as opposed to ability and instinct. Some triallers do use merle dogs, but for them it's abut how the dogs work not what they look like while they do it, although there are some personal preferences that factor in.

The border collie comes in virtually every colour you can think of, which includes black, white, black and white, tri colour, red, red tri, lilac, blue, merle, speckled, tan, sable etc. Their eyes can be any colour and their ears can do whatever they want. They come in smooth, coated and semi-coated varities. They can be as small as 20 lbs and as large as 60 lbs. The focus of the breed is working ability, instinct and style and not conformation.

RDM

doggy lover
January 23rd, 2005, 06:09 PM
Welcome Bill and Gail, hope you are having fun with your puppy. I took Tucker to the vets a few days after we got him, he had been seen by the breeders vet and had one of his needles, but I wanted him checked by my vet for my own peace of mind. He was perfect. He has since had all his shots and has been neutered. I feed him food that I make for him with a little dog food added in, my husband is always complaining that Tucker eats better than him. But I think any higher grade dog food would do, buy the best that you can afford. Tucker is now 8 months old and weighs about 50lbs, he is going to be a good sized Border collie, I don't know with the two crosses of your dog how big he will get your vet could probably tell you better.
RDM its surprising how many people don't know that border collies come in so many different colours, neither did I until I started researching into the breed. I think the reason I was attracted to Tucker was because he was different from the other pups.

doggy lover
January 23rd, 2005, 06:37 PM
here are a couple of new pics of Tucker.

doggy lover
January 23rd, 2005, 06:42 PM
I can only send one at a time, this is one of his winter hats LOL