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What's the world coming to?

December 19th, 2006, 09:13 AM
***WARNING*** some of description is pretty graphic :yuck:

Sick, sick people in this world, but what I want to know is...why is a 13-year-old girl going to a rave? :yuck:

December 19th, 2006, 11:14 AM
That is so sad! Those kind of stories make me want to keep my kids indoors and never let them out. I know there is a balance but where is it? It's often frustrating as a parent to try and figure that one out. When I had mine I had no clue the things involved with raising them.

December 19th, 2006, 11:16 AM
Not sure why you are worried about why a 13 yr old wanted to go to a rave, considering the rest of the story..... :sad:

Rick C
December 19th, 2006, 11:28 AM
***WARNING*** some of description is pretty graphic :yuck:

Sick, sick people in this world, but what I want to know is...why is a 13-year-old girl going to a rave? :yuck:

Murder for kicks isn't a new thing.

We all pine for nostalgia and "the good ole days" but the truth is there have been some pretty screwed up people in any generation down through millennia.

EDIT to inject humanity into my comments: Obviously this particular crime is pretty sick and you would hope these individuals are incarcerated for the rest of their lives.

Rick C

December 19th, 2006, 11:32 AM
Not sure why you are worried about why a 13 yr old wanted to go to a rave, considering the rest of the story..... :sad:

Well I guess he meant that if she didn't want to go to a rave, this probably wouldn't have happened to her:shrug:

December 19th, 2006, 11:50 AM
oh my :sad: I'm so sorry for the little girl and her family, I hope these guys are trialed as adults. :mad: This is so sick.

December 19th, 2006, 12:15 PM
IMO....I don't think the rave has anything to do with the story. If she had of said no to the rave, the murderers would have found a way to get her anyways. She was the "chosen" one.....

The part that I have problem with is....

"He said he wants the teen sentenced as an adult, which would mean a life term with no parole for at least 10 years. Defence lawyer Richard Cairns is expected to argue for a youth sentence, which is a 10-year term consisting of six years in custody."

No parole for at least 10 years!!! It should be NO CHANCE OF PAROLE....EVER!

:sorry: this is a very sensitive issue for me

December 19th, 2006, 12:22 PM
No parole for at least 10 years!!! It should be NO CHANCE OF PAROLE....EVER!

Yes and I think that this is the problem. When someone does something as horrid as this, the option of parole shouldn't even be there. How can someone who can think about and plan such a horrific thing, clearly showing no regard, have the possibility to live freely in 10 years.:frustrated: :sad:

December 19th, 2006, 12:51 PM
IMO, the "rave" part sets the mood. You don't just go to a rave to dance... You know? If this girl was going to a rave, chances are she had minimal adult supervision in her life because no aware guardian would ever let their kid, especially not a 13 year old, go to a rave. If she hadn't gotten raped by these twits, it was likely she might have been at the rave.

Is that what you were trying to say HxH? ;)

All in all, I think the crime is atrocious, but I also think this girl was marked for tragedy in a lot of different ways.:shrug:

December 19th, 2006, 11:06 PM
Yep another reason to reinstate the death penalty in Canada. I personally would apply for the job of the person who puts this scum to death.

Golden Girls
December 20th, 2006, 06:25 AM
What a horrible way to die. The victim was 13 <-- a baby I'm sorry. Not quite old enough to fully be aware of possible consequences or that there are evil people out there. Many teenagers hang around malls, she innocently accepted an invitation to what she thought was going to be fun, that's all.

I'm not saying she probably didn't have insecurities but at 13 who doesn't? She made a deadly mistake, I can't imagine how frightened she was prior to her death. May she be :rip: My heart goes out to her family and her friends.

I hope the monsters get the MAX - all of them

Golden Girls
December 20th, 2006, 06:33 AM
As parents, we HAVE to make that very clear to our kids, without making the paranoid. THAT's the real challenge. Locking them up is not a solution, although I often feel like doing that too, because then they come out totally ignorant of all and any danger!Exactly, I too was tempted so many times to keep my son home where I know he would always be safe but as a loving parent you have to instill the proper tools and pray like hell that'll they'll use what you've taught them when their out in the big world :fingerscr

December 20th, 2006, 08:35 AM
Not sure why you are worried about why a 13 yr old wanted to go to a rave, considering the rest of the story..... :sad:

The story is sick, yes. But it could've been avoided if that 13-year-old girl wasn't didn't/couldn't go to the rave. What's so wrong about it? There's drugs, alcohol, and it's an all-night party. None of which should be a part of any 13-year-old's world. So I guess maybe a better question would be: "where was her parents at the time?" (because the murder happened in the *early* morning...when a 13-year-old shouldn't be out at all!

Kids are trying to grow-up too quickly for their own good...wait 'til they really get older, then they'd wish they were kids again...

EDIT: and the other sick part: one of the accused was 34 at the time...with a 17 year old girlfriend...WTF!? While I agree true love shouldn't really have boundaries but she's not even legally an adult yet! (plus I don't think it was true love :mad: )

December 20th, 2006, 06:12 PM
It is definitely a tragedy and so many people failed this girl, but you can't really lay blame. All the "what ifs" in the world won't bring her back and in the end it is the murderers who MUST for their crime!

I am not a child by any kids are 33 and 27 yrs old..I have grandkids and I am a very open, liberal thinking woman. Going to a rave does not mean you are going to do drugs, drink or have sex.... Yes, raves are all-nighters, but are not always the deep, dark underground party that people think they are.

Definitely, this 13 yr old should NOT have been thinking about going to a rave.....she should have had better role models in her life and she should still be alive... it similar to the way people used to think about used to be if you dressed in a certain way, you were "asking for it". So, if that still stands, then was this child "asking for it" by saying she would go to the rave????

:rip: sweet child... I pray the judicial system does the right thing....

as I said before....:sorry: but this is very close to my heart....

December 20th, 2006, 06:17 PM
all of them should be in jail til they die!!!!!!!!!1

December 20th, 2006, 07:24 PM
I was sick reading this and I told it to my 20 year old daughter and it made her sick also. I hope it also made her wary. At the very least it opened up an interesting discussion about staying aware and staying safe. Not that we haven't talked about it many times but I always think it bears repeating.

I think that it's possible that these people might have moved on to an easier target if the girl had been more wary. As my daughter pointed out--34 looks pretty old to a young teen. And 34 year olds hanging out with teenagers look creepy. But they also might have just waited until the girls were outside an taken them at knifepoint. That's what happened in the Dru Sjodin case in Minnesota a few years ago. She was older and safety conscious and was leaving her job at the mall and it was still light out. She was even on her cell phone as she walked to her car to let her boyfriend know she was on her way home.

But being aware and being suspicious is ALWAYS safer than being willing to go off with strangers. My daughter thought that they were probably flattered by the attention of the older teens. But she also thought that she wouldn't have left with anyone at that age because we kept very cose tabs on her time and her whereabouts and she wouldn't have been able to just skip off to an unplanned event without having to answer for her actions.

I kept my kids on a short leash, giving them only as much rope as their maturity levels warranted. And I'll stand by my parenting tactics. The proof is in the pudding and they both feel that we used our parental authority to help them navigate and make good decisions.

No--OF COURSE this girl did not deserve to die because of an error in judgement. Especially a torturous death. I am sickened, just sickened at what these animals (and in saying that I feel as though I'm insulting wildlife everywhere) did to her. They don't deserve parole. They deserve an eye for an eye in my opinion.

The victim was a child and she deserved to have been protected as a child. I agree that she was let down by a lot of people.

December 20th, 2006, 09:51 PM
Harley's mom, I don't think either HXH nor me are laying blame. We're just saying that this poor girl wasn't just in the wrong place at the wrong time- she was in the wrong family and circle of friends at the wrong time. That's all. She was a victim over and over.:sad:

December 20th, 2006, 10:25 PM
that is such a sad and horrible story - Sometimes its hard to give kids freedom - like walking to school by themselves (I still wont do it - but other parents let their grade ones walk by themsleves everyday.

Then you hear something like this and its like maybe I am doing the right thing by making sure they are okay.

I finally let both my boys change in the boys change room at the rec centre for swimming - its mostly just young boys, teenagers etc in there - but there are adults as well that go in, to check on there kids - so it sort of creeps my out. I am always opening the door every few minutes (they cant see me) and yelling out there names. I told them that if anyone makes them uncomfortable or tries to touch them to scream for me really loud.

I wont let them go to raves when they are 13 or especially stay out all night - or hang out at the mall all day. :(

December 21st, 2006, 08:10 AM
I know Prin..... :sad: I guess it just upsets me that so many people failed this little girl in her short life and it p*SSes me off that the court system will probably fail her also.....

If this story can save one child, at least some good will have come from it. Maybe parents will think twice about giving their kids that little bit of extra freedom they want.


December 21st, 2006, 09:16 AM
She was a victim over and over.

Yes exactly !!

I remember a mom telling me about how her daughter wanted to be at the mall every night now that she was in high school (13, 14 years old?) She said she dropped her off every night around 7:30 and she got a ride home. She also said "She gets home around 10:30 or so. Well the mall closes at 9:00 and besides that what's she doing getting rides home and you don't even know whose car she's getting into. The whole thing was ridiculous.

She said "I don't like it but what can I do?" Sheesh ! I just said
"You can say no." Some parents are afraid to parent and some would just rather not.

There were a lot of nights when my husband and I spent the night looking at a pouty face when we could have let the kids do what they wanted and had a relaxing evening to ourselves. But we said no when we had to. My kids had a lot of fun too. They weren't kept in all the time, or not allowed to have age appropriate actvitites, but there were times when we had to use judgement that they hadn't developed yet.

Yes--she was a victim over and over. :sad: Perfectly put Prin!