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How involved should we get?

erykah1310
December 7th, 2006, 10:21 AM
I have been looking around alot on a quest to confront some BYB's and have come across a bulldog breeder ( english bulldogs, Who turned out to be a wonderful COE breeder IMO)
After researching the breed better, and seeing that it is very hard for them to mate on their own let alone whelp naturally. I was wondering why doesnt the standard for the breed change?
Everyone is always saying "breed to better the breed" but in this particular case, even the best breeders are not bettering them. They are almost completely man made. From AI to C-section.:confused: This is an old breed too, and im sure that way back in the day when this technology wasnt around they managed "naturally" so why is the breed standard so " cruel" ( cant find better word) to these dogs? I mean shouldnt things change?
It kinda disgusts me, to see what WE are doing to some breeds.

Dog Dancer
December 7th, 2006, 11:23 AM
I'm with you Erykah. I saw a news type story on this not that long ago and was disgusted that we've bred these dogs to such a standard. It's terrible to have done that to them. Don't know how to change it though, not that I have one so it's not in my hands, but...

Golden Girls
December 7th, 2006, 11:34 AM
It kinda disgusts me, to see what WE are doing to some breeds.I agree but not only these breeds are being exploited IMO all. You don't have to agree with me but I'll never accept breeders saying it's to save them from extinction ... it's all about $. I think it was Happycats that said it best: We are overpopulated with animals leave them alone until the numbers at least descend! (or something to that effect) There's just way too many that have no home.

Prin
December 7th, 2006, 11:40 AM
omg, I hope this doesn't become yet another anti-breeding thread. If it does, it'll probably be closed (again).


As for breed standards, a lot of breed clubs do evolve with the times, but I agree, definitely not the english bulldogs. And it's sad because I think of all the breeds I know personally, they're the one with the most trouble (no offense raingirl :o). They just seem to have every ailment in the book and seem to be sensitive to everything.

papillonmama
December 7th, 2006, 11:40 AM
I would think the only way to change breed standards would be to implore those who create the standards, ie CKC AKC. It's really sad that humans have done this to so many types of breeds. It's not just dogs though, cats horses, cows, pigs, chickens, you name it, we've altered it.

Scary, wonder who's doing that to people, ever notice how tall and big everyone is getting.:eek: (I know I'm a conspiracy theorist, but, it is the government who allows farmers to inject hormones into the meat and vegetables that we eat.) I know, I know, I'm just silly, but think about it

mafiaprincess
December 7th, 2006, 11:56 AM
I would think the only way to change breed standards would be to implore those who create the standards, ie CKC AKC. It's really sad that humans have done this to so many types of breeds. It's not just dogs though, cats horses, cows, pigs, chickens, you name it, we've altered it.


CKC and AKC don't create the standard. The parent club of the breed does.

erykah1310
December 7th, 2006, 11:59 AM
omg, I hope this doesn't become yet another anti-breeding thread. If it does, it'll probably be closed (again).



I agree, try to keep it away from Anit-breeding please, its more of a "wake up" thread.
English Bulldogs are wonderful pets, I love their looks too however, i really feel that conformation shouldnt restrict the animals natural ability to reproduce. Hypothetically , what if the human race just vanished one day, and dogs could fend for themselves without a problem. Think of the horrible suffering a Bulldog bitch would endure if she were pregnate? Its horrible. And WE ( humans) did this to them.

jiorji
December 7th, 2006, 12:07 PM
well...this is my opinion...they're just dogs...they're not extinct, there's other dog breeds around. Therefore...I don't necessarly think that forced breeding is necessary as much as forcing polar bears to mate. I think this kind of stuff is more vital for species that are in great danger of getting whiped out off the face of the earth. While i'm a dog lover i don't think the world would suffer much if a random dog breed stops multiplying. just my opinion. I mean, there's huge fans of this breed but how can one be sure the breeder is striving to breed to save this particular dog breed from extinction or is doing it for the money. I believe a biologist more when he/she says that the tigers HAVE to successfully breed because there's only 10-15 in the world left , but a dog breeder, no matter how respected they are don't quite have the same effect on me.

Bulldog owners, I mean no offence :o

papillonmama
December 7th, 2006, 12:09 PM
Thank you MP,I wasn't positive, I was only giving my suggestion, when you need to change something it's easier to see change when the pressure is coming from all directions.

LibbyP
December 7th, 2006, 12:31 PM
It's not only female English Bulldogs that 'suffer' through this, I also believe that Frenchies as well, the breeders we have looked into are all done by c-section (not sure about AI) and only have 2 litters before they are retired.

Golden Girls
December 7th, 2006, 12:52 PM
Scary, wonder who's doing that to people, ever notice how tall and big everyone is getting.:eek: (I know I'm a conspiracy theorist, but, it is the government who allows farmers to inject hormones into the meat and vegetables that we eat.) I know, I know, I'm just silly, but think about itIt's not silly at all, it's exactly why 12 yr olds are walking around with Pamela Anderson's breast size :eek:

LibbyP
December 7th, 2006, 12:59 PM
It's not silly at all, it's exactly why 12 yr olds are walking around with Pamela Anderson's breast size :eek:

I hear you, my niece is 5 she wears a sz 12 and comes up to my boobs and I'm 5'5(and a bit) :crazy:

PetFriendly
December 7th, 2006, 04:05 PM
My mom always explained my 6 foot frame (which was very tall for a female even 10 years ago but not so much any more) by saying that my brothers and I ate a way better diet than she did as a small child and its that, together with good genes that made us so tall. Eating modified foods, be they vegetable or otherwise may have contributed, but I doubt it. As far as big boobs go though, I"m not so sure there isn't a link of some sort that can be made to hormone injections in meat we eat, though it sure didn't affect me ;)

I do think that part of the conformation should include an ability to procreate unassisted. In some cases AI is probably necessary, as in the case of more rare breeds to keep the gene pool on the deep side, but breeds that need C-section I'm not sure about

(as I go off to re-think my wanting a frenchie... darn...)

LM1313
December 7th, 2006, 06:18 PM
English bulldogs are one of the few breeds I think should be allowed to die out. Those poor dogs. They can't breed naturally, they can't give birth naturally, they waddle and wheeze . . . Why are we doing this to them?

They're not even a true representation of their original breed. The idea of an English bulldog baiting a bull is laughable.