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Peta

chico2
March 3rd, 2004, 10:30 AM
I just recieved yet another request for money,this from PETA.
I don't know how they all get my address,but I guess they have their methods.
I do give money on a monthly basis to two organizations OSPCA being one of them,but unfortunately I don't have a bottom-less wallet.
Anyway,the stickers they included had a very telling quote so very sad.Unseen they suffer,Unheard they cry,In agony they linger,In loneliness they die.
This was all about labratory animals,cats,dogs,rabbits etc..
They included their web-site: www.StopAnimalTests.com

Lucky Rescue
March 3rd, 2004, 10:44 AM
While I, of course, agree that NO animal should be exploited or abused, and do think animals should have rights, I cannot support PETA.

Their terrorist tactics and publicity stunts reflect badly on animal lovers everywhere!

Also, they advocate the elimination of pit bulls, and I find it completely outrageous that PETA stands for "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals." Perhaps they should add a disclaimer stating that they strive for the ethical treatment of animals ONLY if Ingrid Newkirk - who is a nutcase - personally approves of them.:mad:

amaruq
March 3rd, 2004, 10:55 AM
I agree with some of PETA stuff but I don't agree with how sometimes they conduct themselves. Or some of their rules!

I'm the biggest sucker for those commercials for the World Wildlife Fund. Or Humane Society. Brings tears to my eyes.

This has nothing to do with pets but I do have a foster child in Burkina Faso (Beatrice). I seen the infomercial from Christian Children's Fund and had to help.

Hubby doesn't allow me to watch those things anymore cause I do get so upset.

chico2
March 3rd, 2004, 10:56 AM
Yes,Lucky I have read a lot about their "activisms"and I too do not approve of many of their methods worl-wide,they do give a bad name to any animal-lover..The word"Animal-Activist"is now translated as a nut-case,much thank's to PETA.
I did not know about the Pit-Bull thing.
I was in no way advocating PETA,was just surprised at getting the letter:confused:
The letter was signed Ingrid Newkirk,is she Canadian?

chico2
March 3rd, 2004, 11:02 AM
Amaruq,I do not watch HS infomercials,my evening would be ruined,it's too heartbreaking,or the one where Charlize Theron talks about captive bears in Asia,Russia etc...I must be getting old,I just cannot handle it:mad:

Lucky Rescue
March 3rd, 2004, 11:56 AM
No Ingrid Newkirk is not a Canadian. She is a lunatic who compares people who eat meat to Jeffrey Dahmer.:eek:

She is an advocate for the elimination of pit bulls, but what she doesn't understand is that BSL DOES affect other people, if not today, then maybe tomorrow when another breed goes on the list.

Here's one of her charming statements:

People who genuinely care about dogs won't be affected by a ban on pits. They can go to the shelter and save one of the countless other breeds and lovable mutts sitting on death row through no fault of their own. We can only stop killing pits if we stop creating new ones. Legislators, please take note.

LavenderRott
March 3rd, 2004, 12:09 PM
I can't remember where I read it, but it is my understanding that PETA is against dog ownership, period. Spread that around though, and people don't donate money. Start making it illegal to own pit bulls, however and work your way from there. After pit bulls, rottweilers and dobermans, you start working on banning other breeds. Soon, only yorkies and poodles are biting and you can ban them too.

BSL helps no one except those who want pet dogs banned.

Carina
March 3rd, 2004, 01:06 PM
Well said Sandi...I didn't know that they were advocating breed bans & eradication of pit bulls until I read it recently on a link LR posted.

LR - do they think this should be accomplished by neutering every pitbull on the planet, or do they want them pulled from their owners & taken away to be euthanised?

PETA is way too extreme for my taste - they have some good messages but these go unread or disbelieved by many people because of their extremist attitude.

LavenderRott
March 3rd, 2004, 03:20 PM
LR - do they think this should be accomplished by neutering every pitbull on the planet, or do they want them pulled from their owners & taken away to be euthanised?

I believe that they are of the mind-set that they should all be put down immediately.

chico2
March 3rd, 2004, 03:30 PM
Wow,I did not know all these things,mostly I know about them"freeing lab-animals",spray-painting fur-coats and something about Clay Aiken and spay,neuter cats,something rude,since I love Clay Aikens(dirty old woman!!!)
I guess,you live and learn and I've learned a lot on pets.ca..

wAggie
March 3rd, 2004, 09:03 PM
:eek:


PETA's waaaaaaaaaay out of my league.


I was a member of Greenpeace for a short time before money became tighter...


Go Greenpeace, Go :)

Luba
March 3rd, 2004, 09:55 PM
Ya do what you can in your own community to help as much as you can with time/money/donations!

If you wish to belong to an organization thats wonderful!

Lots of people don't have time or money so they help org's like PETA through telemarketing etc.... campaigns for donations.

AND some just feel better making monetary contributions, one less thing they have to be sleepless about at night.

numberoneaggie
March 4th, 2004, 01:44 PM
It was interesting to hear what all of you had to say about PETA, encouraging, too. Being a cat breeder (even though I only have 3 cats and haven't had a litter in almost two years!!) I am a favorite target of PETA. TICA, the cat organization I belong to, used to publish lists of all its members with their associated breeds and contact information. It was very handy for members. However, about ten years ago, PETA used the directory to 'free' captive cats. They broke into the homes of breeders and opened all the doors and windows and cages and set the animals free. I know that there are some breeders out there with bad living environments for the cats and something needs to be done about them, but PETA's actions were absolutely not in the best interest of the animals, they weren't even 'ethical'. When you take an animal that has lived inside for its entire life and always had food and water provided for it, 'setting it free' outside is a death sentence for the animal. After those incidents, TICA quit publishing member information. I have always been worried about how radical the PETA members are and am scared that they will come after me personally one day just because I happen to breed my female every so often. If PETA was really concerned about how animals are treated, they would be out there building shelters and raising/donating money to help care for homeless animals, not making things worse by breaking and entering and setting whole males and females free in the outside world.

Ok, so there was my two cents, not that anybody asked for it.......

melanie
March 4th, 2004, 03:09 PM
well numberoneaggie you are so right and if they gave a damb about animal there is no way you would release a cat into a wild or even urban environment. i am a dog girl at heart but i must say hello to all cats and have a pat and kiss, so please dont think i dont like cats. but have you seen what a cat can do to other ANIMALS in the natural environment? the massive problem we have in australia with feral cats is terrible, they are such tough cats and breed tougher cats, they maim and destroy thousands of small mamals, birds and reptiles here daily, in delicate ecosystems this can mean the end to many species. i have worked with wildlife rescue in the past and have seen so many sad cases of small creatures being destroyed by these feral cats. if anything a good breeder is the activist and these PETA loosers the complete oposite. there is just no point helping animals if you use them to destroy their own environment, god what a bunch of idiots. but important to remember if one does not have the funds to help these organisations time can also be a valuable donation, not to mention looking after your environment which will have a tenfold effect for an animal living in the environment, we are all part of a delicate system and must support one and other to have an ecological balance. and it also kills me to see those sad adds, the rspca here do it with dog pics all the time, it makes me cry and very angry. but it is effective and very honest way to advertise a plight no kid gloves just the awful truth that many are not aware of, just hard to look at. and if they kill all pits will rotties and GSD be next? will they just go through every breed till there is nothing left? maybe these thick idiots need a new research assistant, theirs seems not to be doing such a good job;) ;)

numberoneaggie
March 4th, 2004, 03:21 PM
Melanie, I completely agree with the 'what's next?' question. If they campaign to eliminate breeds, pretty soon they'll put themselves out of business.

And you're right, good breeders are activists in a way. I consider myself a good breeder because I have my cats best interest at heart. My cats rule my house and I don't cage my animals (although Natalie loves to sleep in the dog crate!). I don't have a regular schedule for turning out kittens and sure don't make any money breeding. Abyssinians were the first domesticated cat - they are the ones that the Egyptians worshipped. So for thousands of years they have been taken care of and have no survival instincts anymore. Just the thought of one of my kids being outside, alone, scares the hell out me. Oh crap, now I'm making myself sad just thinking about it. I have to go call home and talk to them on the machine now.......

Lucky Rescue
March 4th, 2004, 03:30 PM
the massive problem we have in australia with feral cats is terrible, they are such tough cats and breed tougher cats, they maim and destroy thousands of small mamals, birds and reptiles here daily,

I just have to comment on this. Feral cats have very little impact on the bird population on this continent. The vast majority of songbirds killed by cats are taken by domestic housepet cats, who kill them for sport.

Huge numbers of songbirds are killed here by people's pet cats, because the owners refuse to keep them indoors.

Birds take way too much energy to catch, and feral cats (at least here in North America) stick to much easier prey, like mice and other rodents, and of course garbage. Feral cats have no reserves of body fat or energy and can't waste those resources trying to catch very diffcult prey, or killing for fun. A feral cat would have to be very desperate to try and make a living killing birds.

Since mice and rats are considered pests, there is no repercussion to having feral cats kill them. We have no lizards in my part of the world, but I know you have small defenseless marsupials and flightless birds, who have never developed defenses against predators, and I'm sure that feral AND pet cats take a very heavy toll on them.

Since cats are not native to your country, I do understand the damage they do to the wildlife there. Darn shame, and another example of how humans mess up nature.:(

chico2
March 4th, 2004, 03:50 PM
I saw a documentary once about feral cats in Aussie-land and they were a problem and it was open season on cats.
But Australia has also an overpopulation of hares,dingos and roos and whatever else.
Aboriginies(spelling)were killing the cats with a chop to the head and eating them,I can understand that part and also the protection of other wild-life,but why do we humans always decide when there is too many of one kind of animal and they have to be killed.
I assume these cats at one time originated from pets,maybe mixed with wild cats,but the bottom line is, it's humans who many times are the cause of the problem.

LavenderRott
March 4th, 2004, 04:02 PM
The problem is two-fold. Animals that are introduced to an eco-system that they are not native to and destroying predators that are native to an eco-system.

Feral cats are not native to Australia, but were brought in by people. If they were native, then the eco-system could support them. It can't so they are killing anything they can to survive. Now if only they could get the feral cats to concentrate on the rabbits, which were also imported and now a problem.

In the U.S., deer are a problem. Since the wolves and big cats that used to prey on them are gone, the deer are starving to death.

I consider my self an animal rights person, but I am a strong supporter of sport hunting as long as the meat is being used. I do not agree with killing for fun.

Before you jump all over me, let me tell you this; when I lived in Utah, I watched an entire herd of deer die of starvation one winter. It is a much longer, more painful death then a shot from a rifle. Had some of the herd been hunted out, then some of the herd may have survived.

numberoneaggie
March 4th, 2004, 04:30 PM
Good point, Lavender. Its like the Nutria problem that we have along our coasts. Some plant was brought to the US from Asia for use in channels and cannals and just took over. In Asia, the nutrias keep the weeds under control, so the animals were imported to help with the problem. But once they got here, they found better things to eat and won't touch the plant. Now the nutria population is out of hand and the animals have even put farmers out of business.

I guess the big question is, do you kill to help eliminate overpopulation, or do you leave the animals alone and watch them drive another species to extinction?

Carina
March 4th, 2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by numberoneaggie
I guess the big question is, do you kill to help eliminate overpopulation, or do you leave the animals alone and watch them drive another species to extinction?

I say you kill to sensibly manage wildlife, if you have to. Since many populations of various wild animals are being squeezed out of habitat, or living in "unatural" conditions - around people, contending with roads & traffic, having their food supplies diminished or eradicated by people, managing is the best we can do.
My .02.

chico2
March 5th, 2004, 08:45 AM
well girls,I have to admit,I am a bit of a "nut-case"(hubbies opinion!). In my heart I wish everything and everyone could live happily and long all together,in a sort of paradize:o
Just the sight of a slaughter-house truck,with little pig-snouts sticking out from the openings,makes me burst into tears and I get this urge to"rescue"them knowing the horror that awaits them and deep in my heart I am against hunting and trapping in any form in todays world.
But reason will prevail and I know i.e the deer-population would be a big problem,I do think the best solution would be to reintroduce their natural predators,like wolves,cougars and others,seeing we were the ones destroying the natural order in the wild.
But "out-landish"groups like PETA are definetly not the answer.

amaruq
March 5th, 2004, 01:12 PM
I have read many wildlife books. I lived in Northern Alberta. The only animal that makes other animals extinct is us...humans!

Nature has a way when things are over populate to balance out. Nature doesn't need man's intervention. Been doing without it for billions of years. The wolves take the sick the old and the young. Leaving the best of the species to go on and breed better species. When the deer numbers are low wolves will decline too because of lack of food. They can't survive on mice or rabbits.

I would like to see a wait and see attitude or better yet. Keep your mitts off the whole thing.

It's like the pit bull debate. You don't kill them cause there bad?
Same as wolves...they aren't bad but trying to survive in a world that doesn't want them.

melanie
March 5th, 2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by amaruq


Nature has a way when things are over populate to balance out. Nature doesn't need man's intervention. Been doing without it for billions of years. [/B]

PLEASE dont think i am being cranky, just need to give you the information to form sound opinions


firstly there are plenty of different ways for animal species to make each other extinct, especially introduced species with no predators as you will see below the cane toad does an amazing job of finishing of entire species, also a major factor here of animal making each other extinct are such issues as competition for food sources, again the cane toad is the champ here but so is the feral pig and fox. so no human are not the only ones who make animal extinct

well yes nature does have a way of doing it herself, it is called iceages and climate change that creates an unstable environment for humans and animal to live in .. as far as leaving an introduced animal population uncontrolled well, i have my doubts that this will work, the feral cat, pig, goat, fox, mosquito fish and rabbit of australia have very few predators except for the rabbit who breeds at ridiculous rates.if left unchecked they will outcompete every native species we have, so no nature wont sort herself out without our intervention. so should we let feral cats and foxes destroy all of our small defensless mamals as a course of nature?? should we let feral pigs destroy the environment till there is little left (and they cause immense damage), is leaving it without human intervention just like having a pussy infection or ganggreen on your knee and saying ' no i wont attend a doctor, it will sort itself out' you may just loose that leg just like we have lost over 1000sp in the past 200 years since the introduction of feral sp. introduced species are an environmental nightmare, and our delicate ecosystem was never designed to cope. take the cane toad, this has not been in oz for more than 70 years yet has managed to desemate tens of snake and amphibian species, ask any farmer and they will tell you of the snakes they dont see any more, such as the common black snake, when this snake eats the toad it dies of toxic poisioning, the toads are carniverous and eat many a small amphibian, many of which are very rare in small niech pocket ecosystems. if you are thinking that the environment will evolve we have millions of examples here to demonstrate that it doesnt. 70 years is not long enough for any species to evolve to protect theselves from such things as the cane toad. if we take the laize fair attitude of keeping our mitts of, whole populations of small birds and mammals such as the small antichinus (small native mouse looking thing) will have no hope, these things are becoming rarer, look at it this way, would you put a small bird in a cage with a feral cat and watch? i know i couldnt do it, but we do it every day in our environs. a small animal CANNOT defend itself against such an onslaught of feral species and have absolutly no chance without human intervention. have you ever seen a oz feral cat? these guys are huge and really scary, have absolutly no natural predators here except the human so are very healthy creatures, good luck to the little bird defending themselves. so if humans are the only predators in this country is the human not an animal species also thus allowing nature (we are part of the system) to deal with the problem. as far as wolves are concerned, in its natural environment it should be protected.
if we sit back and wait to see what happens we will have a complete disaster on our hands, this has been proven in this country time and again in the past 200 years. i believe every native animal deserves conservation and protection, every species endemic to this country has more of a right to be here than i do, we need to remember this when deciding their fate. and if we left it to run its course, well you should see the large numbers of feral pigs/goats/cats here and the destruction they cause, this is the result of us sitting back and watching. our countrywill turn into one big feral play ground while we sit back and watch the dessimation and painful destruction of many species.

sorry for the length but this is a topic close to my heart, i love my country and all it contains, yet it is slowly dying and destructing and it breaks my heart, we can slow this destruction and even stop it with the right decisions and tools. we are not here to live on the planet and live of the ecosystem, we are a part of it and without all pieces the machine will never work properly, being here on this amazing planet is a gift not a right.:)

chico2
March 5th, 2004, 07:01 PM
Wow Melanie,you certainly gave us a lesson:D
I have watch a lot of programs about Australia and learned a lot,such as about the cane-toad and others.
I can understand your reasoning,Australia has a totally different set of problems to ours here in Canada.
We do not really have an animal species that could desimate another,the only ones that do in Canada is humans.
We have created"nuisance bears"that usually are shot,by infringing on their environment.We have made the beautiful wolf almost extinct ,foxes etc..by trapping and hunting them down.
We still kill baby-seals the most brutal way,those are things that need to be corrected and can only be done by humans.
Where I live,close to Lake Ontario,people were bothered by geese-droppings,so the Canada geese were first going to be culled,but it was later decided to destroy the eggs and"humanely"relocate the geese.Well,geese have wings and they are right back here,now what are they going to do:D
I watch Animal-planet and the National Geographic channels,sometimes I think it must be owned by an Aussie company,because almost every program is from Down Under,subsequently I've learned a lot.
I grew up in a city,but love the outdoors and all animals in it.
We have friends who are"sport-hunters"and when they discuss how they managed to lure this beautiful huge buck within shooting-range,I do not comment or try to push my views onto
them,we all have our feelings about things in life and mine is to start repairing the damage we have done to our native spieces,
so our grand-children don't have to go to a zoo to watch a depressed crazed wolf.

LavenderRott
March 5th, 2004, 09:16 PM
I understand your feelings about hunting, honest, but consider this for a moment if you will.

When our ancesters moved to this country, they had to hunt to survive. That is history, plain and simple.

A lot of sport hunters hunt so that they can feel some connection to that history.

They spend months trying to figure out the best place to put their blinds so that they have a chance and getting a shot.

All of the hunters that I know are very ethical. They get a license. They don't shoot does unless they have a permit. They use the meat. And more often then not, they spend hours in the rain and the snow and don't even see a deer.

Since we have managed to get rid of the deers natural predators, this is a fair way to go about it. You could say that using a gun isn't fair to the deer. How would we keep the numbers down if the men had to run after it, jump on it and bite it on the neck until it died?

Hunting is much more humane than starving to death or getting hit by a car. And these hunters who don't see any deer are putting out LOTS of carrots, apples, hay and deer feed to try to lure them in so they are feeding the deer too.

chico2
March 5th, 2004, 10:26 PM
Lavenderott..Don't get me wrong,because I definetly don't want to get into whether hunting wild animals is right or wrong,we all have our opinions and feelings about it,it does not really belong in a pet-forum.
My idea of a week-end hunter,is a somewhat overweight, trying to be macho guy,dressed in fatigues,enjoying the power he has in the form of a gun,or worse yet a cross-bow,the power and thrill he gets from killing.The excuse of our ancestors hunting for food,is no more valid,unless you are a native or an eskimo..
Now,I said I did not want to get into this and I did anyway,sorry about that:D
I am glad the hunters feed the deer before they kill them,just kidding,I know thats not what you meant...
Anyway,I respect your opinion we cannot all think alike,even I am a hypocrite,I eat meat...tried vegetarian for a while,but there is just only so many ways to cook broccoli and cauliflower and I just could not stay away from a nice big steak:D
At least deer and other wild animals can roam free for a while,something many of our food-animals in factory farms cannot.

melanie
March 7th, 2004, 02:34 PM
in australia we have hunters who go for feral pigs, goats, rabbit, fox and sometimes brumby. these guys are very efective at helping with our enviro problems and are often paid by government and farmers to clean up a property. pig hunters use pig dogs and knives and guns, and the goats and brumbies often shot from air by profesional target shoters, new zealand does this too. i think this hunting allows people to still hunt but they are doing something for our environment also. but dont get me started on the kulling of roos, sheeesh, it just goes on doesnt it, sometimes very disheartening :( :(

Luba
March 7th, 2004, 02:35 PM
What are brumby melanie?

chico2
March 7th, 2004, 02:44 PM
My dictionary says Brumby is a wild horse....but I hope that's not what they hunt:(

melanie
March 7th, 2004, 02:59 PM
so sorry for my stupid aussie word use, i tend to forget not everyone knows what im talking about (but is that the word use or just me??). oooh now i dont want to tell you, it will make you sad, but yes they are wild horses, we have quite a few of them here. i forgot to mention the camels but im not sure if they are widly hunted. i think they are more often captured and trained for use as are some of the brumbies but not many. but the brumbies are mostly hunted in national parks where they survive quite well, i know one delicate ecosystem on frasier island National Park just of the Queensland coast that is often over run by brumbies and they are quite destructive. but it just shows what one or two peoples poor decisions can do not only to the environment but to the poor animals as well. :( think globally, act locally:)

chico2
March 7th, 2004, 04:20 PM
Melanie,the way you describe it,it sounds like it is a virtual free for all on most wild animals in Australia.Shooting from helicopters etc..
Here in Canada there are very few wild horses left,only in some parts.
Horses are destructive?:confused: In what way,they don't eat the native critters,surely there most be room in your vast beautiful country for wild horses:(
I suppose almost everyone has a gun...at least outside the cities,which they probably do here in Canada to.
I once watched culling of roos,not knowing what they were going to do and I quickly changed channel when they started killing them...it was sad...

:(

Luba
March 7th, 2004, 04:41 PM
Off the coast of Nova Scotia (Canada's atlantic province)

There is an island called, Sable Island. It has been restricted access because of the wild horses that live and breed there.

If you're interested, take a peek here:
http://www.greenhorsesociety.com/Behaviour/Behaviour.htm
Exerpt:
Although access to the island is restricted - by both location and regulations - the horses are well-known, and are of great interest, historically and scientifically. The Sable Island horses have been featured in several documentaries and numerous books and magazine articles, and they were the subject of an exhibition at the Equine Museum of Japan, Yokohama (1994), and a photography exhibition in New York City (Roberto Dutesco, 2002). They are protected by law from interference by people, and thus live wild and undisturbed.

There are PICTURES and the story behind it!

melanie
March 7th, 2004, 05:03 PM
now dont get me wrong, we dont kill everything that moves,but the problem of feral animals here is enormous. this has alot to do with our isolation, our critters are not very tough. and we have very strict licence requirements here for guns, it is very hard to get one and they all must be registered. the reason the horses are destructive is this -horses are hard hooved animals (cows and other hard hooved animal also a prob here due to wide spread erosion) and do alot of damage to soil structure ect, this is especially important for places such as frasier island as it is an island made completly of shifting sands, they can cause wide spread erosion, soil compaction in delicate areas and also compete for food sources with wallibies ect. they also pose threats to humans in that area as it is a small island with a high number of horses and tourists (but i dont really care about the humans). it is also a national park with the only remaining pure bread population of dingos left in australia (and lots of other special critters such as various ground nesting bird species like the little turn who has been desimated since more 4WD activity and the increase in horses), so yes it is quite a delicate ecosystem. erosion may not seem like such a big deal, but when you consider our soil types and lack of soil fertility (we have many thick heavy clays) erosion becomes a massive problem, we cannot afford to pour our soil into the water or have it severely compacted (this inhibits plant growth and organism production). and with the increase of habitat destruction and land clearing, no there is not enough room or food or habitat for wild horses, or other ferals.
and those mongrels that justify kulling roos, just so they can get better crops ahh they drive me wild. roos actually have many neat ways of controling their populations and during our current drought there is no need for it, they stop breeding in drought and their numbers thin naturally.
but luba, there is some fascinating history relting to our horses and other ferals also, they form part of how we got here and who our forefathers were. but still not good to keep them here. but very cool link,it is great when animals fit into the right ecosystem and are protected as they deserve.
but i have a deep respect for all animals, hey its not their fault someone dropped them off here, but i do believe they should be disposed of in the kindest, fastest and most respectful manner possible, shooting effectivly ect. does this, i would hate for them to do more wide spread poisioning, it is slow and sad not to mention the other native animals that are not meant to get it but do. sorry for length, but as you know i have too much to say and get a little passionate about certain things. think globally act locally;)

chico2
March 7th, 2004, 05:42 PM
Luba,thank's for the site,beautiful! I bookmarked it to read it later.
There is not a more beautiful sight than seeing horses in the wild...mind you I say that about wolves and other things too:p
Melanie,what you are telling me,makes me a little sad for Australia...and it's inhabitants.
I know about the history,how Australia was originally a penal-colony,so the blood-line is not that great(kidding!!!):D
We were actually going to immigrate to Australia a long time ago from Sweden,but the Aussies at that time put all the immigrants in camps and the government decided where the immigrants were going(I wish we did that here now!!)so,we chose to go to Canada instead and have never regretted it.
I know Steve Irwin is all for protecting native species,but would he condone killing horses,foxes and roos...

melanie
March 7th, 2004, 07:22 PM
well it is all pretty sad, and as an environmental scientist and animal lover it is very hard to deal with, i find i get very angry and then depressed over all of this and more. but then i go out to the bush and just look, it is still very beautiful and part of me. we have many enviro problems here just like anywhere else. it is just due to the delicate nature of many of our ecosystems that sadly cannot cope with the influx of feral animals, feral plants and feral humans. tell me about it, it breaks my heart daily.

oh and australia was originally a beautiful place inhabitied by our aboriginal people. 200 years ago it was invaded by white people and it turned into one big penal colony for the over flow of british and irish ratbags, ahhh, i actually decended from convicts so i have ratbag and murky genetics;)

oh and we still have a nasty habit of locking up immagrants in detention centers (so bad spelling) that dont have the right 'status'. but im sure we dont lock up the sweeds or anyone with any money, only boat people ect. (extreme sarcasim used in the last sentence)

and steve irwin had better agree to the killing of feral animals, if he didnt his conservation work would be in vain. our greatest conservationist ever is a man called Dr Ian Wamsley (he just doesnt have a telly show). he supports all of these techniques and has even constructed feral proof fences around his conservation areas, he also uses the skins of feral animals to show respect for their bodies, he has some pretty fancy caps made from feral cats, he is often refered to as the cat hat man, it may not be nice to some but he is using the animal skin for a good purpose, why waste it, i find that so disrespectful. but he is my hero, he has brought so many species back from the brink of extinction, yay for him:D :D :D

but before i go and kill myself over the sadness of it all, myself and many other people i know have devoted their life to the environment and the conservation of it and this fills me with great joy, we may just get somewhere after all and if not, at least we went down trying. australia is such a harsh continent i just love it and it is ever fascinating. just remember- THINK GLOBALLY, ACT LOCALLY and you can really make a difference.:D :D ps- if you are wondering why my messages are so long, well it takes alot of explaining and i am trying to procrastinate instead of doing wedding duties for the up coming nuptules at the end of week, so just bear with me and maybe i might just go away and do some work:D

chico2
March 7th, 2004, 09:22 PM
Melanie,don't worry,what you write is very interesting and needs explaining.Sorry I forgot about the aboriginals..I just watched the movie the other night,where an unbearably stuffy Englishman took aboriginal children from their parents and three girls walked for miles to get back home to their mom.
Making hats from cats,yeah,it bothers me....but then again I do not live in Australia.
Good Night! I guess you're just getting up,14 hours difference,right?

melanie
March 7th, 2004, 09:28 PM
so sorry, just dont read my posts, it is actually Dr John Wamsley not ian (me brain is not working so well). oh and you watched rabbit proof fence, that warms my heart so much, just to know people are seeing it. it was a true story and it is amazing what 3 little girls can do when they want to go home (they walked several hundred miles and crossed a desert, following the rabbit fence that has never detered a rabbit in its history), it is so important for our history to be recognised even the not so nice parts. ps the practice of taking kids from aboriginal parents continued until well into the 1960's and is still a major issue here.
yeah we are 14hrs ahead or arouund it i think, it is mid afternoon here, so have wonderful sweet dreams.:D

chico2
March 8th, 2004, 07:08 AM
Melanie,Aboriginies,Indians,Lapps(in Sweden)in just about every country have been treated unfairly and cruel in history,so you are not the only ones.
Although I am not that knowledgable about the Canadian Indian and their proud history,I know by giving them hand-outs and tax-exemptions,we have created a second class citizen,with drinking-problems,high suicide rates etc...
When visiting Alberta I was stunned at the wide-spread absolute hatred towards Indians,but I am not judging anyone,I just know somewhere along the line,we did the Canadian Indians a horrible injustice.

amaruq
March 8th, 2004, 08:05 AM
Well to weigh in here!

First off I grew up with a "Hunter"/ farmer I seen enough death and pain to last me 100 life times. I hate it with a passion! If you think animals don't suffer from a hunters hands....I'm here to tell you they do. I have also seen hunting for the heck of hunting. Men going out and "bagging"the big deer only to take the antlers and leave the meat. There is also a problem with Lead shot. If the animal is wounded and gets away they die a slow and painful death from lead poisioning. There is the trade in wild animal parts IE: the bear liver ad paws. They are killed for that and left. Now times there are cubs to feed....they also die slowly.

I watched a show about Austrailia and its problem with feral animals. This again is the hand of man. Don't want kitty...well heck pitch him out the door...don't want puppy...pitch them out the door. The Dingo population is becoming muddied because of the feral dogs getting out of control. Then the mix then kills for the sake of killing giving all a bad name.

The guy that has the cat hat's is nuts. I can't imagine my cat's on some fools head trying to make a disgusting point.

The europeans have this philosophy that it's their way or the highway. They have proved that over and over..killing the original ideas that people had. ie: The native Indians were told they were savages because they lacked the faith in God. The white man used the Indians to gain control of the lands with Booze. Now the Natives are confused in where their place in society is. Manitoba has a large Native population....Our downtown is full is the "Drunk" natives. I have been to Pow Wow's and find them magical. I can truly say that for me...I don't have words to say how wonderful I think it is. By the way, I look native but am not.

The killing or culling of animals and man have to stop. Humans have to realize that they aren't God and shouldn't play the part.

chico2
March 8th, 2004, 08:56 AM
I agree Amaruq,although there will never be a perfect world,it should star with respect for ALL of gods creatures.
I am also glad you can see the beauty in the Native Indian and their traditions other than their boozing..not many people feel that way,especially Albertans:mad:
When I objected,I was just dismissed with:You're from Sweden,what do you know? Which pi....sed me off!
I read a lot and educate myself before I judge anyone..The cruellest animal is the Human animal

melanie
March 8th, 2004, 02:50 PM
yes, i am very aware of the atrocities that white man has in the past committed on many an indigenous population worldwide (this is just my opinion so im not directing it at anyone but i dont like to use the word native, here in oz it often implies the concept of the noble savage, i prefer indigenous or aboriginal- aboriginal meaning the original inhabitants or owners). but unfortunatly i can only help the people of my land and only understand the people of my land and their ways. anita, you should look into the people of your land, you may find it most interesting.
and yes i know that not all hunting and farming practices are kind but we have necessities in this life (i have a farming background). but australia is quite possibly a unique case, i totally support the control of feral animals as a necessary conservation tool. apparently an old tale tells(early 1900's) of 2 police finding a farmer dead. they could not find living relatives so let his entire heard of pigs out into the bush and it started there, this would only be applicable to that area but it is quite similar to how most of these animals got here, either stupidity, for food sources or for hunting purposes.
as far as Dr John Wamsley and his wife goes, well they are my heros. his conservation efforts are just amazing and the work they have performed just miraculous. his hats do get alot of attention, he always has someone harassing him, but good on them for believing in their causes and good on him for practicing his beliefs. but what is he to do, dump the dead bodies in the bush just to rot? for thousands of years we have used animal skin for clothing ect. why is this any different? if it were made of leather would he get the same reaction? i doubt it, just because an animal has been domesticated does not make it any more important than a cow or sheep, all animal are equal and should be treated as such. but i do understand your feelings, if it was my dog on his head i probably would be a little uncomfortable with it.
and if we didnt play predator to these feral animal species here in oz well, just imagine the devestation that would be caused, these animal have no predators except for us, so as an animal myself i feel that this is our right action before it gets out of hand. ps have you ever seen the amount of pigs in a litter, they breed like rabbits so it is important to keep on top of it. oh and relating to the dingo pop breeding prob, some states such as western australia have laws that forbid travelers taking an undesexed dog (not all breeds) into the state due to the problem of mixing breeds. and if dingo mixes with GSD or similar you are going to get a big nasty dog out of it. some of the wild dogs you see look just terrifying. remember- THINK GLOBALLY, ACT LOCALLY:D