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Dog mopes around and won't eat...

mryoung33
November 18th, 2006, 11:26 AM
Hey all, Newbie.

I just wanted to see if anyone here can help me.

It all started when she went into Heat this summer. Everything was fine til a few months ago then everything started going down hill.
We noticed she wasn't eating as much. Then the weight started coming off. She is only 13 months old and she was pretty healthy, 38 or so lbs.

I took her to the vet to see if they could tell me what was wrong. They told me it was 'hormonal' and said nothing was wrong. Didn't do any tests or anything. $65.

A few weeks passed and it was getting worse so I went to get a second opinion.
The new vet told me she had Whip Worms. He said she was negative for Heart Worms which was a felief. She was vomitting awful and had a terrible smell coming from her. She hasn't pooped solid in weeks. It is just water. He said it was the worms causing all of it.

So he treated her and gave me some pills to give her. We brought her home and she got Worse. He told me to bring her back and he kept het over night and put her on an IV, etc. Kept her 2 days and we brought her home. She acted like she was felling better. Ate all of her food and drank water like a fish.

That was last Saturday. That Sunday, it was back to the same old thing. I bought some Interceptor Worm Treatments which is suppose to treat and kill Heart, Hook and Whip Worms. The vet doesn't open on weekends and I am running out of ideas.

I want to keep thinking positive that I am not going to lose my dog but 2 vets don't know what the problem is, I am starting to worry.

I posted on a similar forum and one reply stated that she may be 're-infesting' herself with the worms from the yard. I shoveled all the poop I could find , which wasn't much since she doesn't eat.

I Don't know what else to do.


Thank you so much in advance!!!
Bill

jawert1
November 18th, 2006, 12:27 PM
First off, welcome to the boards. Secondly, it's time to get your dog spayed ASAP. If she's having issues that are hormonally related, I find it odd that your vet wouldn't have suggested spaying her. There are consequences to leaving a female unspayed beyond populating the country with more unwanted puppies - cancer and pyometra are the most lifethreatening disorders associated with an unspayed female.

To answer about whipworms, my late Springer Spaniel had these - she contracted them from dragging home a decayed carcass that was infested with them. We had to move her run entirely (she had an outdoor run as well as being inside the house), as the soil was contaminated from her feces prior to her treatment. If she isn't leash trained and allowed to run, or is penned outside, you will need to monitor and move her space to an uninfected spot. Otherwise, she will continue to reinfest herself and these things are mighty unpleasant.

I hope you choose to spay her - most of us here are very pro spay/neuter, so you'll hear a lot of that. Good luck and keep us posted on how she fares. :pawprint:

Angies Man
November 18th, 2006, 12:37 PM
First, don't treat her for worms unless you know she actually has them. Worm meds are essentially poison--you poison your dog a little so that the worms are ejected. As you know by now, it takes a fecal exam to check for worms--a good vet will do a followup fecal to confirm that the meds they give you have done what they're supposed to.


What are you trying to feed her? Might it be that she doesn't like her food? If there's a store in your area that sells the better quality foods discussed in the food section, go get samples of about three different foods--different protein bases (like one which is lamb & rice, one that is fish based, one that's duck based, etc.) & see what she'll eat. If you can, get some samples of the crap foods that groceries & mass marketers sell (Beneful, Kibbles n Bits, Pedigree, etc.) Crap dog food is better than no dog food--try canned food, too.

We're not looking so much for a permanent diet, but something that will get her through this bad period.

Also at least temporarily, supplement her diet--canned salmon & veggies cooked together, some bits of chicken breast, etc. A little brown rice. A little yogurt would be okay--get plain, live culture, low or nonfat variety. No sweeteners. Give her a little canola oil--like you cook with.

If you're on this forum very long, you'll see that we suggest probiotics, digestive enzymes, & vitamin and mineral supplements. They can't hurt, and if part of her problem is an upset G-I tract (a possibility after being poked, prodded, and dewormed) they will help.

Of course, we can't tell you what's wrong with your dog by remote control. You need to find a Vet that will track this down--if it is hormones, then the vet needs to test for that and find some sort of treatment. I'm kinda doubtful that it's worms, but a followup checkup would answer that question. While I have nothing but the highest regard for modern vets--sometimes they need to be figuratively grabbed by the back of the neck and reminded that "my pet is not routine and we need to find out why she's sick, DON'T WE!!" Be an assertive consumer, and if one vet can't figure it out, find another, and another if need be.

mryoung33
November 18th, 2006, 03:28 PM
I just recently changed her dog food. I am sick of reading the labels of grocery store food. It is sickening. I just bought her some organic food ,chicken being the main ingredient from www.flintriver.com
I found them while doing a search on the dog food topic. We still have the dried and canned store bought food.

She has gotten to where she will nibble and that's it.
We have cooked her rice and chicken breasts, tried to give her yogurt, I tried sneaking some Organic Coconut Oil in her bowl.

IF she is reinfesting herself in the yard, what should I do? I doubt I can spray clorox all over the yard and kill these things can I??

She sleeps in the house and plays in the fenced in back yard. No access to other dogs.

I hate to keep taking her to these vets and they poke, IV, etc. and still can't come up with a solution. It's sad to see (and Hear).

I am running out of ideas...fast!


You have been a really big help!!
Thank you
Bill

meb999
November 18th, 2006, 03:36 PM
since her kibble is chicken based and the fresh food you are giving her is also chicken based, maybe you should switch the fresh cooked diet to hamburger meat and rice instead of chicken and rice. It's just as easy to cook, and if she's still sick, then at least you'll know it's probably not the food.

Maybe you shouldn'tlet her go in the backyard anymore and walk her around the block a few times instead. That way you pick up the poop, and she doesn't come back into contact with it.

Good luck :fingerscr

mummummum
November 18th, 2006, 04:16 PM
Welcome to the board and sorry your pup is feeling unwell. You didn't mention what each of the Vet's did before giving you a diagnoses. Has she had both fecal and blood tests now? The treatment for worms is generally cyclical isn't it ? Kill the existing worms in the gut with a course of meds, wait a week or so for the next batch of eggs to hatch then kill those just as they hatch. Then re-test some weeks later to ensure a full-cure. You only described a few days (I think...) of giving meds. But maybe I missed something.

mryoung33
November 18th, 2006, 08:12 PM
I tried the hamburger and she ate a little but didn't gulp like normal.

All this happened in the last week so I haven't been back to the vet. I am calling them Mon since they don't open on weekends. He gave her all the tests you mentioned. The first vet didn't do anything.

I didn't have the money to get the surgery and then it was too late. I want to get it done soon but I doubt he will perform it while she is still sick.

I think I am going to tell him to keep her and do what he needs to do get her well. He kept her 2 days last week and when she came home she was eating, drinking and playing but it didn't last long.


How can I treat my yard if it is the problem??


Thanks again for your interest!!
Bill

mummummum
November 18th, 2006, 09:10 PM
Okay ~ just did a quick search on whipworms (Trichuriasis) for treatment and control.

They become infective in 2-4 weeks and thrive in a warm, moist environment. Eggs can live for up to 5 years in the right environment but they are susceptible to desiccation (sunlight and drying). After infective eggs are ingested the adults mature in 11 weeks. They may remain in your dog for up to 16 months.

From the Merck:
"No signs are seen in light infections, but as the worm burden increases and the inflammatory (and occasionally hemorrhagic) reaction in the cecum becomes more pronounced, weight loss and diarrhea become evident. Fresh blood may be seen in the feces of heavily infected dogs, and anemia occasionally follows.
Treatment and Control:
The eggs are susceptible to desiccation; therefore, by maintaining cleanliness and eliminating moist areas, the risk of infection in dogs can be reduced considerably, although T vulpis infections can be difficult to control. For anthelmintic treatment of dogs, licensed compounds include fenbendazole, flubendazole, mebendazole, milbemycin, and the combination formulations praziquantel/pyrantel/febantel, pyrantel/febantel, and pyrantel/oxantel (Table: Drugs with Approved Activity Against Intestinal Helminths of Dogs and Cats). Treatment should be repeated 3 times at monthly intervals because of the long prepatent period. Finally, milbemycin oxime, milbemycin/lufenuron, and diethylcarbamazine/oxibendazole, when administered for heartworm prevention, are also approved for control of T vulpis infections. "

I'm a little confused by the medicine you were given and the length of treatment proscribed. Were you given Panacur? As for your doggy feeling better coming out of hospital, that was no doubt because of the IV which would have replenished fluids and nutrients depleted by dehydration and anemia caused by the worms.

As for your yard, hopefully you live in a dry and sunny climate. I read elsewhere that handheld flame guns can also be used to dry out overly moist environments and concrete.

mryoung33
November 18th, 2006, 09:22 PM
Thank you soooo much for you information.

I live on the east coast of South Carolina.

The first time I took her to him he gave her Metronidazole 500mg 2x every 12hr. He said this was an Anit-biotic. 2 days later I took her back because she got worse. He said he would change the meds. He then gave her Metoclopramide 10MG 3xday every 8hr. He said this will flush her system and make her poop more solid.
It isn't working...at all. She hasn't pooped solid in 2 months.


Thank you
Bill

mafiaprincess
November 18th, 2006, 09:36 PM
You said in your first post she smelled awful. Does she still smell horrible? If she does is it like rotting meat? If so I'd be llooking at a uterine infection that may go in the direction of pyro rather than worms.

mryoung33
November 18th, 2006, 09:38 PM
Hi, no she doesn't smell at all now other than like a dog!
It was God awful. He said it was the worms and the blood.
Thanks

Bill

mummummum
November 18th, 2006, 10:10 PM
Well, the metoclopramide will "flush" her out, it increases contractions of the stomach ~ it's also an anti-nauseant and reduces stomach acids. Sometimes when dogs (and humans) get into diarrhea and vomit mode they can't stop ~ this is intended to give them a little relief. But where is the medicine to treat the worms?

mryoung33
November 18th, 2006, 10:23 PM
Good question. Never thought to ask. I figured he knew what he was doing?
It is hard to flush a system when there isn't anything in it.
She has only been eating a few bites in the morning and at night. It's like she doesn't even want to smell food.

mummummum
November 18th, 2006, 11:37 PM
Well the Vet likely prescribed the metoclopramide for it's anti-nauseant properties. Let us know how she makes out when you go back to the Vet on Monday and insist on a wormer such as Panacur.

Angies Man
November 19th, 2006, 01:09 AM
All of this messing with "flushing her out" and antibiotics has probably got her GI tract really messed up. Worming meds aren't going to help to calm a nervous gut--if she were my dog, I think I might want her to be wormed during a full day at the vet--so she could get IV fluid support. Ask your vet about this Monday.

You can't do anything with the vet til Monday, I think I'd go to the pet shop (where they sell pet meds.) and get the digestive enzymes and probiotics--do it tomorrow. These products are pretty mild and natural and may help to calm down her stomach and gut.

My thought is that the normal flora of her gut has been pretty well knocked out by all the drugs. Restoring the beneficial bacteria should help with the gassy feeling and diarrhea.

As for cleaning up the yard--I guess I'd fence off a small portion of the yard and treat it with a strong bleach solution. Use a garden sprayer--you might want to do it twice, even. Then give that portion of the yard a rest for a few days before you let your dog back in. Sunlight will break down the chlorine bleach pretty quickly, but you don't want to take chances with your pup getting it on her feet and then licking it off.

After chlorine smell is gone, use only the treated portion of the yard for your dog's run. Promptly clean up any waste and maybe spot treat the soil. Don't worry about killing the grass--you can reseed next spring.

My brother's a Family Practice doc. I'll give him a call tomorrow and ask him if he's got any ideas. People and canines are different, but he's pretty smart and may have some thoughts.

As you may have guessed, we think this is pretty darn serious. I'll try to talk to my bro in the morning (west coast time.)

mummummum
November 19th, 2006, 01:20 AM
As for cleaning up the yard--I guess I'd fence off a small portion of the yard and treat it with a strong bleach solution. Use a garden sprayer--you might want to do it twice, even. Then give that portion of the yard a rest for a few days before you let your dog back in. Sunlight will break down the chlorine bleach pretty quickly, but you don't want to take chances with your pup getting it on her feet and then licking it off.

I may be wrong Angies Man but I don't think chlorine bleach works with whip worm eggs. I understood that they respond to dessication through sunlight and being drying out. Clearing up poop asap to keep the yard clean is of course necessary.

The probiotics are a good idea ~ you can also buy them in live liquid form or pill form at health food stores as well as in some grocery stores in the dairy section.

Angies Man
November 19th, 2006, 01:21 AM
Is used to treat Giardia (aka beaver fever).

Before the vet gives your dog any more wormers, he/she and you need to be absolutely sure that your dog has a case of worms. Please take a sample of whatever stool you can gather up for the vet to check.

Here's some old vet info forum posts on chronic diahrea. Interesting reading and may to help in understanding what's going on.

http://www.vetinfo.com/ddiarrhea.html#Chronic%20Diarrhea

Angies Man
November 19th, 2006, 01:37 AM
I may be wrong Angies Man but I don't think chlorine bleach doesn't work with whip worm eggs. I understood that they respond to dessication through sunlight and being drying out. Clearing up poop asap to keep the yard clean is of course necessary.

The probiotics are a good idea ~ you can also buy them in live liquid form or pill form at health food stores as well as in some grocery stores in the dairy section.


You know, I don't know whether bleach will work or not. It does oxidize and that would be toxic to small organisms--but the whipworm eggs may be resistant to bleach. I do know that one might have to wait a long time for a yard to dry out in the Carolinas in November--it's the rainy, turning to snowy season. The article I reference below says that whipworms are somewhat susceptible to drying, but may lie dormant in soils for years. The only good solution, according to the article is to replace the soil. If she is reinfecting, maybe Bill's going to have to build a dog run--replace the soil (with crushed stone?)

I'm still skeptical that a worm infestation is the problem.

Here's a pretty nice article about whipworm:
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1622&articleid=778

Bill might try calling the local county office (in the local phone book under county offices--Cooperative Extension) of the South Carolina Cooperative Extension (based at S. Carolina State University & Clemson.) Here's the number for the College of Vet Medicine at my alma mater Washington State University 509-335-9515. They likely would have a specialist in Canine internal medicine who could make suggestions.

mummummum
November 19th, 2006, 01:47 AM
just an fyi Angie's Man : metronidazole is an antiprotozoal and antibiotic used to treat infections caused by Trichomonas vaginalis, Giardia lamblia, amebic dysentery, anaerobic bacterial infections, and colitis caused by Clostridium difficile. We've lived through giardia x 2 in my house and the symptoms ar far more acute than those described by Bill.

Bottom-line is doggy needs to go back to the Vet. Both for a fecal resample and blood -tests as well as one would hope a prescribed wormer to start with until the tests come back.

I think your right about the soil removal though. One article I've read said a 5 year "shelf-life" for eggs in soil is possible in the right environment ~ yikes !

Angies Man
November 19th, 2006, 02:09 AM
Before I go to bed.

I think that because Bill's dog isn't eating much, the form of the digestive enzymes is kinda important. A liquid or powder form might be problematic as far as getting into the pup.

I'm using a product called Probios Digestive Dog Tablets. I got it at Petsmart and as I remember it was about $17 for 40 tabs. When a dog is feeling/eating okay, she'll scarf 'em down like a dog biscuit. If she won't eat it, tho, it is a hard tablet--that can be administered like a pill (back of the tongue, hold the mouth closed, and massage the throat below her mouth.) Probably two a day for a while and see what happens. (This is not an endorsement--I only mention it because it's in a convenient form for giving to a sick dog.)

G'night Mummummum!

mummummum
November 19th, 2006, 02:55 AM
G'Night Angies man !

Actually I was referring to the probiotic when I mentioned "in liquid form" (we use "Bio-K", it's live Lb. acidophilus & Lb. caseilike and tastes like sour creamy-yoghurt ~ very, very yummy).

mryoung33
November 19th, 2006, 12:01 PM
Hi everyone, I really appreciate you going back and forth with suggestions. I am on my way to the pet store. I will kepp you informed.
Someone told me to feed her Raw hamburger.
Have you ever heard this before and is it safe???

They said they heard it from the BARF Diet. I don't know. I wanted to ask around and see what answers I get.

Take Care!
Bill

Angies Man
November 19th, 2006, 12:43 PM
I just got off the phone with my brother the people doc.

He says that when people take various antibiotics quite often it kills off the beneficial organisms in the gut but leaves (and makes room for) the bad bugs. Said that the lactobacillus and enterococcus tablets (or liquid) sounds like a good idea--and that they certainly couldn't hurt.

I think we knew that--but he didn't really have anything to add.

He agreed that first thing tomorrow morning, puppy should be back at the vet. If her condition deteriorates today, get her to an emergency vet asap--I would worry about dehydration and electrolyte imbalance.

Hope the supplements help, Bill. Please keep us in the loop.:fingerscr

Angies Man
November 19th, 2006, 01:39 PM
I think I'd try her on some baby food. Perhaps beef or lamb if possible, and some very well cooked rice (cooked with a little canola oil?) or pureed potato. I know, baby food is highly processed, but if her digestive systems are compromised (even temporarily) baby food is easily digested and is very bland.

I had thought of suggesting broth or some canned chicken soup, but both are so full of salt!

Anybody with comments about Pedialyte in a situation like this?

mryoung33
November 19th, 2006, 06:14 PM
Hey everyone,
I just gave her some Probiotics. She ate them like candy.
I bought some Vital Nutrition Liquid Meal. She drank it.
I just came from the store with some baby food and some Pedialyte.
She isn't going near the baby food.

So we'll see what happens through the night.

Bill

meb999
November 19th, 2006, 06:24 PM
Hi everyone, I really appreciate you going back and forth with suggestions. I am on my way to the pet store. I will kepp you informed.
Someone told me to feed her Raw hamburger.
Have you ever heard this before and is it safe???

They said they heard it from the BARF Diet. I don't know. I wanted to ask around and see what answers I get.

Take Care!
Bill

there's a raw feeding forum on here -- http://www.pets.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=64

There are alot of raw-food gurus that can help you out with this. :shrug: Maybe you could post the question in that forum? I've also heard that a raw-diet can help with gastric problems (I'm considering it myself for my troublesome pooch). It's based on a dog's natural diet, unprocessed foods. Apparently dogs have all the digestive enzymes and a shorter GI track to digest raw meat without getting sick. :shrug:

dtbmnec
November 19th, 2006, 06:51 PM
Well I haven't got much to add....

I hope that your dog gets better! :fingerscr :pray:


About the raw hamburger....I have two cats....I fed them raw food for a while and their poop was bootiful, their coats were so much better and it was just so much nicer. They didn't get sick at all (unless they were allergic to what I was giving them). Unfortunately, I've had to stop the RAW diet. :(

All you have to worry about with feeding RAW is contaminating yourself. Its great :)

Megan

jawert1
November 20th, 2006, 10:44 AM
There is literally no way to treat your yard unless you have a commercial incinerator and a backhoe to dig up the infected area and burn it all. Your best bet is to move her run to someplace she hasn't defecated in at all. Otherwise, all the antibiotic and probiotics in the world won't keep her from being reinfested.

Caite
November 20th, 2006, 12:27 PM
I wouldn't feed her raw hamburger especially since she is not used to raw. Changing to raw can really upset some dogs stomachs. I feed raw and have had to go to something very bland and cooked, since I have a sick dog myself. Boiled hamburger or boiled chicken breast or cooked egg whites and brown rice or potatoes.

Make sure your vet figures out what the problem is before giving anymore treatments and hoping that it works. If your vet can't figure it out, try another.

jessi76
November 20th, 2006, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't feed her raw hamburger especially since she is not used to raw. Changing to raw can really upset some dogs stomachs. I feed raw and have had to go to something very bland and cooked, since I have a sick dog myself. Boiled hamburger or boiled chicken breast or cooked egg whites and brown rice or potatoes.

Make sure your vet figures out what the problem is before giving anymore treatments and hoping that it works. If your vet can't figure it out, try another.

well, we all seem to have varying advice, but my vet always suggests BOILED hamburg and WHITE rice. (I've asked about brown, my vet insists on white for doggy tummy upsets) I do agree w/ Caite though - I would NOT go to raw especially since your dog is ill right now and you don't have a firm diagnosis and/or treatment.

once everything is cleared up and your dog is back to normal, then explore the world of raw. But for now, I think your focus should be finding the right dx and rx for your dog.

Caite
November 20th, 2006, 01:04 PM
Good point, actually. White rice would probably be a better choice. I am feeding brown to my pup just for a little fiber until I can re-introduce some veggies into her meals. This pup doesn't really need any help moving things along though, so I probably feed white rice as well.

Angies Man
November 20th, 2006, 02:04 PM
Is she any better today, Bill?

Here's another link, if all else fails, I'd look for a Holistic Vet.

http://www.holisticvetlist.com/

mryoung33
November 20th, 2006, 02:22 PM
Hey everyone , Thank you sooooo much for all the concerns and helpful links, tips, etc.
I am out the door to the vet as I type. I will keep you informed of what happens. I am going to fill him in with all my info and compare it with his.
Then I will ask him if the timing is right to Spay, being that she is sick , he may want to wait.


Angies Man, there aren't any holistic Anything in my area. God how I wish.
But that's another topic.



Talk to ya in a bit,

Thanks again!
Bill

mryoung33
November 20th, 2006, 04:58 PM
Hey ,

I just returned.
He took a fecal and Whip Worms were Neg. He said the Interceptor should have taken care of any worms that were in there and if she is reinfesting herself. She is still vomiting.
She is constanly losing weight. She weighed 35lbs last Sat, she is 31lbs today.
He felt her stomach and said he felt something hard in the abdominal area he didn't feel last week. He kept her over night just to see if it is still there in the morning.

He doesn't have an Ultrasound machine but he said
1) you can take her to a specialist and get it done, find something then have surgery.
2) exploratory surgery and if you find something take it out and be done with it.

That is the LAST thing I want is for my dog to have surgery but I want this to end soon. I hate seeing her like this.

He said it just doesn't make sence. :confused: He has seen her for 5 weeks and nothing's changed. It has been going on for way longer than he has been seeing her though.
In that amount of time, she should've gotten better or died.


He is suppose to call me in the morning for an update.


Thanks everyone for being so nice!!

Bill

Prin
November 20th, 2006, 05:26 PM
IMO, it's time for the specialist.

In that amount of time, she should've gotten better or died.
I hope these are your words and not your vet's... Because just because something has staying power doesn't mean it "should" get better or kill your pet. Some things just stay as they are until you find out what they are and fix them up.

Caite
November 20th, 2006, 05:54 PM
was blood work done?

mryoung33
November 20th, 2006, 05:59 PM
I remember him saying that he did all tests and blood work. I don't recall what he said after that though.

Angies Man
November 21st, 2006, 01:04 PM
Bill, I think I'd get on the phone and call around to find a Vet Practice with an Ultrasound machine. Just because your's doesn't , others in your area might. Start with the least invasive procedure and then progress from there.

How's she doing today?

mryoung33
November 21st, 2006, 01:19 PM
Hey Guys,
I just talked to the vet. He said she is alert. She hasn't eaten this morning or pooped but it doesn't mean she won't. He said she is still nervous.
He is going to send her home with 2 types of meds and use them in tandem and see how she does this week. He said he would rather see what an Ultrasound said before he did actually go in and start fishing around. BIG RELIEF!! :pray:
He said we will see what she does this week then set up an appt with the specialist.
So I am going to get her this afternoon and go from there. :fingerscr

Please keep us in your prayers.
Thank you for caring!

Update soon,
Bill

rainbow
November 21st, 2006, 06:42 PM
Fingers and paws crossed for your girl. :fingerscr :pawprint: :fingerscr

mryoung33
November 25th, 2006, 12:30 AM
Hey everyone,
It isn't looking good. She doesn't even want to move now. I will let her out to pee and she just stands there like she hates to move. She doesn't have ANY energy.

It breaks my heart to see her like this. I thought she was done vomiting but she did the other day. It was more than I have ever seen. I almost lost it I felt so bad for her. She burps all the time and I think it is coming up.

I am giving her the meds every 12 hrs like he said but I think she is getting worse, not better. The vet isn't open again until Mon. I have an appt Tues morning which I might try to change to Mon.
She hasn't eaten more than a mouthful in 2 days. She is drinking water though. Her stomach is so big. You can hear water sloshing around when she walks.

I am all prayed out.

All she does is go out and pee and come back in and sleep...all day and night.
She is sooooo skinny. She looks like a walking skeleton. I am leary of someone seeing her, they may think I am neglecting her.

She is my heart. It is going to be sooooo hard to see her go. :sad:
I don't know what it is about dogs but that truely is the only thing that can break me down. I am a weakling when it comes to her. I treat her like she is my daughter.

Oh well...

Thank you for caring.
Bill

badger
November 25th, 2006, 12:49 AM
This must be so hard for the both of you. If I were you, I would be looking for an emergency vet. Buildup of fluid anywhere is a cause for concern, and together with not eating she might go into shock and die before Monday. What are the meds she is taking? Can you at least talk to your vet on the phone?
Anyway, from the way you are describing her condition, I wouldn't wait, she needs relief (whatever form that takes :().

mryoung33
November 25th, 2006, 12:55 AM
Excuse me if the spelling is wrong.

Predaisone 20mg
Metanidizole 250mg

I will try to get in contact with someone tomorrow morning.
I just hate for them to kill her trying to save her.

That's all I can think about.

Bill

mummummum
November 25th, 2006, 12:55 AM
Just curious ~ what are the names of the medications prescribed ?

mryoung33
November 25th, 2006, 12:57 AM
Just posted right before you asked.

:) I didn't mean that to sound like I said that bluntly. After I read it, It looks like I did. :eek:

Sorry if you thought I did!!

Bill

badger
November 25th, 2006, 01:36 AM
The first one is probably prednisone, which can relieve symptoms (make the animal feel better) and I think the other one is an antibiotic. This is just my humble, not-very-knowledgeable opinion, but I would stop giving them until she is seen by a vet. They won't hurt her but it's possible they are making her feel worse and right now, that's what counts.
I don't want to scare you but please take her to a vet, any vet, tomorrow. Please let us know what happens.

brandynva
November 25th, 2006, 01:40 AM
My thoughts are with your baby mryoung. I hope all goes well for you guys. :sorry:

badger
November 25th, 2006, 01:56 AM
I knowledgeable vet will know what to do; and don't worry, you can refuse anything you don't think is in her interest. The main thing is to relieve her suffering. She needs IV hydration as quickly as she can get it, and probably other meds.
Please come back and let us know how it went. I'll be thinking about you.

mryoung33
November 25th, 2006, 11:44 AM
Hey everyone, No area emergency vet offices open before 1pm. It is now 11:30am.

Anyway, a few minutes ago I sat down to eat my lunch. She walked right up to me, very odd for her the last few days because daddy is the mean old DR.

I took a piece of my food and stuck it to her nose just to see if she would eat it. She opened her mouth.
That got me upset!!! I know my baby isn't starving because she doesn't want her food, the food I bought from the vet and the food he told me to give her and NOTHING else.

So I looked in the frig to see if we had some ham. She wont even look at it. I opened a can of that chunk chicken in water. She started eating it.

I am very upset right now that my dog is starving to death.

Bill:mad:

Shaykeija
November 25th, 2006, 12:10 PM
I have tears right now. Your poor baby.......:sorry:

mryoung33
November 25th, 2006, 12:17 PM
I am glad so many people care.
It irritates me that no one knows what is wrong with her.
I am blaming myself for not gettig her spayed. It all started right after she came out of heat. Downhill ever since.
I kept saying we can't afford it. Now we have spent 3x the amount of an operation.

I don't know what I will do if he says she needs to be put down.:sad:
:fingerscr :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :fingerscr

I am sick to my stomach to know she is is pain.

Bill

Angies Man
November 25th, 2006, 03:23 PM
Hi Bill,

First of all, stop beating yourself up, it isn't your fault, 20/20 hindsight is great, but there was no way of you knowing she'd get sick. And it might be (probably is) unrelated to her heat.

I don't often suggest things counter to what a vet tells you, but in this case, a little canned chicken and some broth isn't going to make her worse, I'd be more worried about about dehydration, anyhow.

By now (12:20 pm PST) you've got her to the emergency vets. She should stay there, imho, until at least Monday, on an IV that provides fluids, electrolytes, and nutritional support.

As for putting to sleep, cross that bridge when you come to it. Euthenasia is only if there's no chance that she'll recover and is a release from her misery. I've owned many dogs in my almost 55 years, and it is not all bad, it brings peace to an unhappy creature and can be a graceful time.


I'm not a praying sort, but I'll keep you on my mind.:fingerscr :candle:

Brian Lamberts
RENO NV

rainbow
November 26th, 2006, 01:22 AM
Did you get your girl to the vet? Do you have an update? :fingerscr

angeldogs
November 26th, 2006, 02:25 AM
Sorry to hear about your sick puppy.my fingers are:fingerscr .What did the emergency vet say and do.

Angies Man
November 27th, 2006, 11:16 PM
Any news, Bill?

mryoung33
November 28th, 2006, 11:38 AM
Hey everyone, sorry it has been so long since my last update.

Saturday she was like a new dog. She was actually walking around and even trotting, chasing and barking at squirrels. It really blew my mind.
She started eating a little bit, not much. She has been drinking water like a fish.

The Dr. checked her blood and there was nothing out of the norm. She is still losing weight. She is now 27lbs.

They said that they prefer me to see a specialist and will set up an appt with them rather than go in and start searching.

He said she should've come around by now with the meds. Her poop is still watery. She still lays around most of the time. They just can't figure it out why she has the energy to chase squirrels but won't eat and is losing weight.


I don't know when the appt will be. I am waiting on the call any time.

I will let you know.
Thanks!
Bill

technodoll
November 28th, 2006, 12:01 PM
bill i'm so sorry to hear about all the trouble your girl is going through :grouphug: she is lucky to have a dad that cares so much! she seems to be in good hands and you will get to the bottom of this, you will! when you say she won't eat anything... have you tried offering her all forms of food? (commercial dry, canned, home-cooked, and yes even raw)?

not the same situation (healthy dog) but my boy was very thin and also wouldn't eat anything for a long time, he was skin and bones and no energy, dull dry coat, etc... we started force-feeding him a home-made ground raw diet and i tell you, a few weeks later he was a different dog... he gained 12 lbs in 6 weeks, coat turned soft and plush, his energy is through the roof, perfect digestion, etc. we are just amazed at what the right food, in the right quantities, can do for a dog! he still won't eat much on his own so half his meals are force-fed, it takes less than 2 minutes per day and it's part of his routine now... it's weird but it works for us.

please keep us posted on your girl :grouphug:

Angies Man
November 28th, 2006, 12:10 PM
Hey Technodoll, could you elaborate on the force feeding? What food were you
feeding your dog, and how did you get it into him? (Thanks)

technodoll
November 28th, 2006, 12:23 PM
(by angie's man's request, only a small threadjack here)

we grind chicken frames and beef hearts for the base (pictorial here: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=32425&page=2), it's messy but we've simplified the process & adjusted the meat to bone ratios to now include organ meats, it's a perfect mix! We made another batch 4 days ago with 40 lbs of beef hearts, 35 lbs of chicken frames, 8 lbs of beef kidneys and 3 lbs of beef liver. So we have enough "MIX" to last for a month.

to this mix we add raw eggs, chopped raw or canned fish, additional ground meat when we have it on hand, babyfood veggies, green tripe, etc. and some supplements a few days per week... some days they get ground beef or pork mixed with EVO kibble. Now when we put the towel on the floor, doggy comes over and sits on it and opens his mouth, LOL! we just make golf-sized balls with the mix and plop it down the back of the throat, it slides right in. Feeding 2 lbs takes less than 2 minutes, depending on the size of the mouthfuls.

ok i apologize for the threadjack :sorry: back to the original thread.

rainbow
November 28th, 2006, 04:53 PM
I took a piece of my food and stuck it to her nose just to see if she would eat it. She opened her mouth.
That got me upset!!! I know my baby isn't starving because she doesn't want her food, the food I bought from the vet and the food he told me to give her and NOTHING else.

So I looked in the frig to see if we had some ham. She wont even look at it. I opened a can of that chunk chicken in water. She started eating it.

I am very upset right now that my dog is starving to death.


If she will eat the canned chicken then I would let her. At this point I would give her whatever she will eat. I hope you get in to see the specialist soon. Good luck and keep us posted. :fingerscr

mryoung33
November 30th, 2006, 08:21 PM
Hey everyone,

I just came home from the "specialist" and I didn't like them one bit!
He gave her a sonagram(?) and found that her stomach and intestines are enlarged. They shaved her belly and you can actually see a knot sticking out of her skin.
God she looks terrible. He then said he really didn't know what was wrong until he did exploratory surgery. He said it could be a number of things...a certain fungus that isn't curable. Can't remember the name. Telescoping intestines, something lodged in blocking the passageway.

He then went to look for surgeons as I sat outside pondering what was next.

Then a lady who was a receptionist for one of the surgeons comes out and starts telling us that she needs surgery as soon as possible. She said I am here to give you an estimate on the cost of the surgery.
She said I need a $2000 deposit before we can begin...Me and my wife just looked at each other saying "we can't afford that"!!
She went into her chant about "we take credit cards, etc."
She then said it may be more or less acording to what we find and what we have to do. She could die on the table. We would give you a call and ask you what you want us to do if we do find something or we would sew her up and you can take her.

Then she said I will give you guys some time to talk it over.

I told my wife to go in there and pay them while I get my vet on the phone. They charged us $325 for all that.

I got my vet's receptionist on the phone and I asked her if he was that expensive and she laughed at me. She said of course not , they are way too high. They actually charged her $1400 for a small surgery on her dog.

So I am going to try to get her in there tomorrow or at least call and see what can happen.

That is REDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are running a racket. They hit you with spur of the moment choices that you know 90% of the people will make because there is a loved one involved.

Can this ever end????

Thanks for reading.
Bill

mryoung33
December 1st, 2006, 01:51 PM
Hey ,

Just got off the phone with my vet.
He got the results from the specialist. He is saying it is either Apithiosis (Uncurable) or Inteceception (telescoping intestines)

He said for me to call him first thing Mon morning and see how she is doing and to set an appt for surgery. He said if it is Apithiosis , we should go ahead and Youthanize her on the table because it will only get worse. :(

That will absolutely Kill me!

Bill

TeriM
December 1st, 2006, 02:10 PM
Awww, that is just heartbreaking :sad: . Think positive and hope that it is the telescoping intestines and can be fixed. We will be keeping our fingers and paws crossed for a happy outcome. :fingerscr .

technodoll
December 1st, 2006, 02:26 PM
oh poor baby :grouphug: i can only pray that the vet is wrong on BOTH counts... :fingerscr

here is some info on intussusception of the intestines: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1571&articleid=307 just in case it could be that...

sigh. why do we love them so much :sad:

Shaykeija
December 1st, 2006, 11:43 PM
What is Apithiosis?

mryoung33
December 1st, 2006, 11:55 PM
Please excuse the spelling. I was writing as I thought I heard him pronouncing it over the phone. I may be wrong.
But it is the thickening of the stomach and intestines. He said it is Very rare and he may never see another case the rest of his career. It is incurable.
He kept asking how she was at the moment. He was asking if she is still vomiting. I said no. He said that is what worried him.
If she is still vomiting, that is one sign of intussusception.

I just can't stop thinking I am going to have to let her go. He said it would be inhumane to let her live if that is what it is. It will only progress and kill her eventually.

TeriM
December 2nd, 2006, 02:29 AM
Letting go is such an awful decision to make :sad: . We must remember that we are only guardians for their short lives and must protect and look out for their interests. You sound like a good parent and I'm sure your sweet angel knows how much you love her.

:candle: We're still thinking positive and hoping for a full recovery :candle: .

mryoung33
December 2nd, 2006, 07:42 PM
My next door neighbor got a puppy last week and he said there were a few more if we wanted one. My wife decides she wants to get it to make "Pooh" (sorry I am just giving you her name, Pooh Bear) feel better.

We thought it was a good idea but Pooh doesn't seem to think so. She snaps at the little puppy and barks at it. Well, mostly when we are around. We haven't left them alone to actually see. We are scared of that.

She isn't acting any different on the medical side. Still laying around but she has been a little more active since we are playing around with the pup.
If I say let's go out, she jumps and runs to the door. If I say let's go for a ride, she beats me to my truck. Still not eating but a couple bites here and there. Guzzles water.

I am to call the vet at 8am Mon morning with an update. I know he is already going to tell me to come in.

This is goig to be a sad few days coming up. I hope & pray it isn't too far gone to save her.

Talk soon!
Bill

mryoung33
December 4th, 2006, 03:54 PM
:sad:
Hey everyone, just wanted to stop by and tell you she's gone!
I am sooooooooooooooooooo sad. This is the first dog I have ever had to put down.
I took her over this morning. I had a feeling it was the last time I would ever see her alive. I had to put a muzzle on her so they could get her ready. She didn't like them , she knew where she was at. Too many time in the last few weeks. As I was walking out the door she was screaming.

The vet called me and told me he went into the surgery hoping it was the telescoping intestines because he wanted her to pull through.
He said as soon as he opened her small intestines he knew it wasn't so.
He said normal would be about the size of your thumb, her's was the size of a pin and had taken up about 4 feet of her SI.
He said he could "try" to go in and see what he could do but it would be a "grave" outcome. He said he has never openly told someone to put their pet down but this is the one time. He said it would be inhumane to try to fix her and then let her live through it.

The hardest thing I had to do in a LONG,LONG time is to answer that question: Do you want me to go through with it?
He said she is still under and will not feel a thing.

He said do you want to bury her or do you want us to do it all.
I said I didn't want to see her dead so go ahead. Then my wife calls them back and they are going to cremate her and call us when it is done.
I just keep telling myself it isn't fair but I know she isn't suffering anymore. It's just that image I have to live with in her last 2 months of life. I would give anything to have her back.


I just want to say you guys and been great with you kiindness, tips and suggestions. I hope you get everything you've ever wanted out of life.

Take Care!
Thank You Again!!!!!!!!
Bill

Shaykeija
December 4th, 2006, 04:25 PM
:sorry: for your loss. A lot pf people here were hoping and praying that your baby would have made it. Race to the bridge baby..:pawprint: :pawprint: :pawprint: :rip: :angel:

chico2
December 4th, 2006, 05:02 PM
Poor little girl,at least she's in no more pain,she's at peace,I hope you'll find peace too and give yourself time to grieve the loss of a sweet familymember.
:rip: Little Pooh Bear

TeriM
December 4th, 2006, 05:55 PM
So sorry to hear about your poor dog. I'm glad your vet was so honest with you and you can be sure you did the best thing for your darling. You'll see her again someday at the rainbow bridge :candle: :rip: .

Angies Man
December 4th, 2006, 06:07 PM
HI Bill,

Sorry that it came to that, I hope you don't have any doubts about whether you did the right thing. Sometimes the hardest part of having a pet is knowing when it's time. If you were in my neighborhood, I'd offer you a beer and my dog would plant a big wet one on you.

Let us know if you get another dog, there are nice people here.

rainbow
December 4th, 2006, 08:05 PM
I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your little girl. :rip: :candle: You did everything possible for her, and, at least she is no longer in pain. :grouphug:

mryoung33
December 6th, 2006, 08:14 PM
Hey everybody!

I am so glad you care as much as you do. It really helps to hear good things.
Man, that was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. I have had dogs all of my life but this one was different. She was an inside dog and we spent the past year togethre EVERY single day and night together.
She was really really special to me. She was the best.
That was the first Youthanizing I have ever had to do. Terrible.

I knew that morning I took her to the vet was going to be the last time I ever saw her alive. And the last time I saw her was with a muzzle. It sucks soooo bad.

My wife called back over to the vet because I told them to deal with everything because I coudln't stand to see her dead.
My wife tolf them to have her cremated and we are going to get a pet photo urn. I found her rabies tag today and put it on my keyring.
I do miss her!!
I know some people think I am crazy because I cared soooo much for a dog. But she wasn't as much a dog as she was a part of this family.
She was so smart.




Thanks again!
Bill

rainbow
December 7th, 2006, 03:09 AM
Thanks for posting the picture of Pooh.....she was a very pretty girl. :cloud9: I know the pain you are going through right now. :grouphug: But, you did the right thing and she is now no longer in pain. :rip: :candle:

Rob n Cody
December 7th, 2006, 02:53 PM
I'm so sorry for your loss...she was a beautiful girl, and she's watching over you and thanking you for taking such good care of her. You'll see her again :rip:

Prin
December 7th, 2006, 02:55 PM
I'm so sorry for your loss. She was a pretty girl.:grouphug: :rip:

mryoung33
December 7th, 2006, 03:19 PM
I can't thank you enough.

As I said in an earlier post, we got a new puppy to cheer Pooh up, it didn't work. I don't know if she just didn't have any energy or she just didn't want to share the family.
Anyway, my wife told me something weird.
We have a Papasan Wicker chair that was Pooh's Chair. She slept in it day and night. Well yesterday my wife was home for lunch and the little puppy was sitting on the floor staring straight at the chair trembling.
Then she let her out to go to the bathroom and she went to the corner of the yard and laid down shivering like she saw something outside.


I never told you the full story of Pooh Bear.
My wife's boss' son and some friends were in the woods hunting and heard something whimpering. It was half a litter. He was going to bring it home but his mom said no and asked us if we wanted it. I SAID NO DOGS in the house.
When I got home from work , she was in a box in the living room. She was 8 weeks old. I was changed forever.
I looked all over the net to find out what she was. Everyone was telling me she was part Chow since the bottom of her tongue was purple and half German Shepherd. Then someone said part Australian Sheep Dog.
I looked on the net and found the other part of the litter at the Humane Society. There were 8 in all. Someone had dumped them out in the woods.

The new pup is from a litter my neighbor's friend had and was giving away so we took on. I have no idea what she is. I guess it doesn't matter.
There will never be another Pooh but I can't let that stop me from making this one feel as special.


Thanks for reading!
You are the best.
Bill

BusterBoo
December 7th, 2006, 03:30 PM
:rip: Pooh.....now pain free and a puppy again :pray:

Prin
December 7th, 2006, 03:34 PM
You'll have to post pics of the new girl. We love to guess.;)

mryoung33
December 7th, 2006, 03:44 PM
I think we are calling her Daisy as in Crazy Daisy. She is nuts!

Prin
December 7th, 2006, 03:45 PM
wow, she's so cute! There has to be some sort of herding doggy in there... I'm not good with the herding doggies.:o

So adorable.:)

brandynva
December 7th, 2006, 04:21 PM
She looks a lot like our Roscoe who is Border Collie and Australian Blue Heeler. He has the classic white tipped tail and white blaze, but he has the freckles too. Here's a pic.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/brandynva/Picture008-1.jpg

Help! It won't let me put the image tag in to show the picture? Have I done something wrong?

Prin
December 7th, 2006, 04:23 PM
Funny, I thought Roscoe was a pointer. :o

brandynva
December 7th, 2006, 04:33 PM
Funny, I thought Roscoe was a pointer. :o

lol, no but he howls like a hound dog!

rainbow
December 7th, 2006, 11:46 PM
Awww....Daisy is absolutely adorable. :cloud9: It's hard to tell a breed when they're that young.

What breed dog does your neighbour's friend have? Do they have any idea what dog mated with her?

angeldogs
December 8th, 2006, 05:08 AM
Sorry to hear about the loss of Pooh.she was a beautiful doggy.:rip: .And the new puppy is cute.

mryoung33
December 8th, 2006, 08:16 AM
Thank you again everybody for Pooh.

The mother was definetly a labrador. I don't remember if they knew what the father was or not. My neighbor was thinking dalmation but who knows.
She is mean little sucker! She bounces when she attacks.
Bill







Awww....Daisy is absolutely adorable. :cloud9: It's hard to tell a breed when they're that young.

What breed dog does your neighbour's friend have? Do they have any idea what dog mated with her?

cpietra16
December 8th, 2006, 08:28 AM
!

I know some people think I am crazy because I cared soooo much for a dog.



It would never cross my mind that you were crazy....I am so sorry for your loss.

OntarioGreys
December 8th, 2006, 10:45 AM
I am very sorry for your loss :grouphug: , and may you have many years with your new girl Daisy, she is very pretty

She is mean little sucker! She bounces when she attacks.
You may need adjust the name to Daisy Rose, sounds like she has a few thorny barbs :D , she should grow into a confident spunky lady who will be able to twist your little finger if you let her ;) and I am sure she will keep you plenty busy over the next 2 years until she does grow up :rolleyes:

mryoung33
December 10th, 2006, 03:19 PM
Hey everyone.
Tomorrow will be 1 week since she's been gone.
I miss my Pooh so bad you wouldn't believe!

I got a sympathy card from the Specialist the other day. It killed me.
He wrote, "Dear Mr. & Mrs. Young, I wanted to let you know that my prayers and thoughts are with you. Pooh Bear was a special family friend and will be greatly missed".


But that wasn't what got me, it was what was on the front of the card.
My wife and I never could figure out what you guys were talking about when you kept saying the Rainbow Bridge. We had never heard of that before.
Then I got this card with the Rainbow Bridge story on it.

Oh My God...I let her read it and she lost it. She kept asking me if it was sad, I said just read it!

I pray everyday that it is true. I can actually picture it in my mind.

Wouldn't that be sooooo Awesome??

I have her picture as my wallpaper on my computer.
I really hope I see her again! She was the BEST.

Bill

Prin
December 11th, 2006, 01:08 AM
Yeah, it's a good story.

Your specialist sounds like a caring one.:)

mryoung33
December 13th, 2006, 10:42 AM
Hey everybody.
I go pick my Pooh up from the vet tomorrow one last time. They called and said her ashes are ready.
I have been looking for pet photo urns.
I always thought people that kept their pet's ashes were sorta weird long ago. Now I know how they must have felt.
I think I am going to send my wife because I don't have the heart to face the doc again.

Take Care!!
Bill