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OCD what forms can it take?

Rottielover
November 14th, 2006, 10:11 AM
Hey guys, I am bringing harley back to OB class again, starting on the 29th of this month, yeah for us.
Harley has never chased leaves, or chased shadows, but something he is doing, or has done but escalating, is worrying me.
He watches T.V, but not normally.
Any dog on t.v, does not have to be barking, just running will set him off now. Not in the past.
A car zooming by, makes him run to the t.v, and look behind the t.v.
Can this be another form of OCD. Will going back to OB, be able to teach me to correct it.
It has gotten to the point, to watch an action movie, harley is crated.
The only time he growls at the t.v, is with a dog.

jessi76
November 14th, 2006, 11:14 AM
A car zooming by, makes him run to the t.v, and look behind the t.v.
Can this be another form of OCD. Will going back to OB, be able to teach me to correct it.
It has gotten to the point, to watch an action movie, harley is crated.
The only time he growls at the t.v, is with a dog.
Or is this another sign of weak temperment?

I don't think it's anything to really worry about, but I'd try to just desensitize him to it. have him with you, watching action movies, on leash. correct the behavior as it happens, and reward him for calm behavior. I think with daily practice he'll get over it quickly.

I don't understand why you'd think it's a sign of "weak temperment" at all. I think it's just curiousity, and your reaction to HIS reaction may be inadvertenly enforcing it.

seems to me it's much like the doorbell. some dogs go nuts when the doorbell rings, barrelling towards the door, barking, etc... so continued practice w/ the bell - enforcing calm behavior helps to correct it. in a class I took, we simulated this - rang a faux-doorbell, dog got excited, was put in a sit-stay, then rewarded for the alert yet CALM reaction.

brandynva
November 14th, 2006, 11:53 AM
In our home we have an extremely alert smart GSD. When she sees herself on TV out in the yard (home movies), she runs and looks out the window, or she'll whine a bit and look behind the TV. Same thing if she sees another dog on tv. Our other dog Roscoe will pay lots of attention the TV if someone with a British accent starts talking. It sounds to me like maybe he is just very alert and knows that cars belong outside and can't figure out why the are inside. I'm sure dogs don't understand that TV isn't reality.

dogcatharmony
November 14th, 2006, 11:58 AM
i use the animal planet channel as a babysitter for my dog when im cooking or doing laundry. She would watch that channel for hours, oh and bull riding, another one of her faves:shrug:

SnowDancer
November 14th, 2006, 12:31 PM
My Eskimo turns the TV on to watch it. And also likes to open and shut the DVD disc hold by pressing the buttons. He learned how to do this after he started opening and closing the car windows. I don't think Harley has a problem and I don't think OB classes will deter him from the TV.

Rottielover
November 14th, 2006, 01:18 PM
Actually he does have a problem, it is called OCD, a vet and trainer said it. He will be going to the vet to make sure it is not a medical problem making him OCD. I Just wanted to let you all know, that OCD comes in many forms.
Lasers can make a dog go mental, so can chasing shadows.
I hope it is just behaviour modification that we must go through.

Inverness
November 14th, 2006, 07:53 PM
I'm not sure looking behing the television is abnormal for a dog when he sees things moving in front of him. Who gave you a diagnosis of OCD ? I have a dog with a severe OCD, I can send you a link to videos of her if you want.

jesse's mommy
November 14th, 2006, 08:01 PM
I think it's cute when Jesse watches TV. She was watching the news with me earlier tonight. She also watches magic videos with my honey. Her favorite magician is Jay Sankey -- she loves watching him and loves his voice.

My parents dog watches TV too. She loves Planets Funniest Animals on Animal Planet and actually knows what time it comes on. She grabs her toys and runs to the TV. She also knows the hosts voice and will come running if she hears it. I never even considered it to be OCD. I would think OCD would be something that would start to affect their everyday life or well being, as if they continually licked their paw (out of habit, not allergy) to the point of losing their skin or something like that. I would never consider watching TV was OCD.

PetFriendly
November 14th, 2006, 08:30 PM
My boyfriend's dog will look behind the TV if there was a dog on the screen and it 'disappears'.

My parents dog asks for the door when he sees and hears flocks of birds on the TV screen and, they disapear. This dog also developed mild OCD due to allergies. He'd get a dry patch of skin and lick it, allergen would go away or be removed, he'd keep licking, it would get raw, he'd keep licking, an e-collar and behaviour modification (a la 'Bart stop licking your foot', give him a tasty bone to chew to keep his mind off of it), fixed it.

It would be my opinion that him checking the TV continuously for activity would be symptomatic of OCD, while reacting to something he can actually see is normal.

Prin
November 14th, 2006, 08:42 PM
I think it's cute when Jesse watches TV. She was watching the news with me earlier tonight. She also watches magic videos with my honey. Her favorite magician is Jay Sankey -- she loves watching him and loves his voice.
I'm with you. Boo watches the birds on the africam and I love it. When there are horses running on tv, he goes to find them behind the screen. And when a dog is on tv singing the national anthem, he howls along. :cloud9:

Lissa
November 14th, 2006, 10:24 PM
It's hard to answer you question since none of us can see Harley or his behaviour. But I wouldn't put all my faith in one vet and one trainer - I also think that labelling Harley with a disease is an easy way out because it puts all the onus on the dog or a medical issue. From my experience (and excluding health causes), the most common reasons behind OC behaviours are: #1 a bored, understimulated dog (most likely the problem since he's a working dog!) #2 handler inadvertantly rewarding/encouraging OC behaviours #3 the dog finds OC behaviours self-rewarding #4 habit (which is a sub-category to #1-3)

Going back to OB will not stop this behaviour from happening, like Jessi76 said you need to desensitize him to it and I don't think you need OB school to do that. HOWEVER, the OB course will give you both a job and a training routine which may reduce obsessive behaviours (obvisouly it won't be a lasting change if all this stops after the course).

If Dodger was having this issue, I would start with the TV on mute have him eat his dinner within eyesight of the TV (as close as he could be to it without reacting). I'd make sure it was on a BORING channel that wouldn't have any of his triggers on it. Then I would slowly increase the volume - depending on his reaction, this could take minutes or days! Then I would play a movie with all of his triggers but it would be on mute. I'd also incorporate tugging, retrieving, grooming and anything else he enjoys while desensitizing him to the TV.
I'd also treat the TV as any other training distraction by putting Dodger in sit-stay during the commercials or heeling past it etc...
On top of all this, I would up the exercise and mental stimulation he was getting. There are so many things you can work on - from something "simple" like straight fronts to tricks or complicated skills like directional commands.

You should also proof the "leave it"/"enough"/"go lie down" commands... These commands all generally mean "quit it" or "take a break" and are NOT negotiable.
Putting him in the crate will not solve anything and may not always be possible...It could also make things worse if he's doing this because he's bored and needs a job. I agree with using the crate after a desensitization session but I don't think its fair or productive to use it without trying to solve the problem!

Good Luck!:thumbs up

Rottielover
November 15th, 2006, 09:36 AM
Ok, he is working,( started training for cart pulling) hard because now I have to train him to pull, not boredom. keep it ideas coming.
He does not just watch t.v, he attacks the t.v. Chases things on the t.v, he is very well worked, and exercised now I go home for lunch.
The only thing I can say is as soon as the t.v is on, he is focused, nothing I say or do changes that.
For a food motivated dog, even raw meat does not take his attention away from anything moving on the t.v
I have enforced a sit stay, that only makes it worse, he growls at the t.v, whines at it. Then after a ouple mins I have to enforce it again, because there he is face planted in the t.v, almost broke his tooth.
He is getting worse instead of better, and it has becomje more of an anxious behaviour. It frustrates him.
Anyways...I am doing what I can from all the research I am doing, and the only thing that relaxes him is his crate.
I will be discussing this more with his trainers.
Other than that erotic behaviour the training is coming along great

OntarioGreys
November 15th, 2006, 09:47 AM
Sounds like he has a very strong chase instinct, yuou sure he is not part sighthound ??? :D typically OCD dogs will obsessively lick themselves or things or chase their tails and can spend hours doing it over and over. I originally thought that Nikki might have OCD as she would sit licking walls or floor registers but after a bit start to key in that is was anxiety related and she was doing to try and calm herself, usually started if she thought I was getting ready to go away or if something else was stressing her

Lissa
November 15th, 2006, 12:16 PM
Out of curiosity, if you leave Harley alone with the TV on, what does he do?

The only thing I can say is as soon as the t.v is on, he is focused, nothing I say or do changes that.

If he is that reactive to the TV then you need to start with much smaller steps. For instance, start having him focus on you out of sight of the TV but with the voume on so he can still hear it...or bring him into the same room as the TV while its paused/muted or playing in slow motion (or like I said on a channel with none of his triggers).
You cannot accomplish anything without attention so you may also have to go back a few steps and work on that until he will focus on you no matter what the distraction.

For a food motivated dog, even raw meat does not take his attention away from anything moving on the t.v

This is where you have to be inventive, what else does Harley value? With Dodger, I'd bring in his best doggy friend because there's no way he'd notice anything else while wrestling with another dog. If not that, try building toy motivation so he realizes that tugging with you is more rewarding then anything else.

I have enforced a sit stay, that only makes it worse, he growls at the t.v, whines at it.

Obviously this is counter-productive - Harley is not ready for that. I do not give Dodger a command unless I am positive he will be succesful at it. It's pointless to set them up to fail, so don't ask for anything.
I clicker train so I'd put the TV on mute/pause and wait for the briefest moment of no barking/growling/lunging/whining and then C&T...if he looks at you that is even better and you throw a party. This way its HIS choice and he is figuring out what you want from him; in other words he is working brain! Another option is to tether him to you and repeat "leave it" OR ignore him until he is quiet and then reward (for Harley the reward might actually be to turn off the TV). This way you are reinforcing commands like "leave it" and/or "on your bed".

Lastly, I'd also start trick training or free shaping so it gives you both a fun and mindless training outlet. On top of that, "find it" games are also great because if you want to rest, you can send him off to find objects or treats - so he has a job!

When you aren't desensitizing him to the TV and want to watch something yourself, I agree with crating him. You want to stop him from repeating the behaviour so it will extinquish. I also think he needs to be crated in another room, otherwise he might find it frustrating to still see/hear the TV and not be able to react.

erykah1310
November 15th, 2006, 01:50 PM
Meik too watches and "chases " the tv!
Not to the extent that you are saying Harley does it, but at least with Meik i CAN get him to look away when I think the TV is going to come crashing down on him.
Im glad that things with his cart training are coming along, that is a great activity for a Rottie.
I have little or no advice for you, but just want to let you know that I hope you get things with Harley settled in time.:grouphug: He seems to have alot of pent up energy and is expressing it in some very strange ways.!
:fingerscr his cartting will help him " let out" his energy !

OntarioGreys
November 19th, 2006, 06:50 AM
OCD is not about a dog having too much energy or caused from boredom it is a result neurochemical imbalances with anxiety causing increased espression

Main cause is believed to be inbreeding genetic factors, it is believed the dog OCD is much like human and studies are underway using brain imagery to prove, when I mentioned Nikki's licking associated to stress may actually still make her and OCD according to this article, and treatment involves behavioural modification along medication(anti-depressants) the same used with dogs that have SA.
http://www.animalsheltering.org/resource_library/magazine_articles/jan_feb_2003/selective_breeding_ocd.html


The most prevalent dog breeds in addition to mixes were German shepherds, rottweilers, dalmatians, and bulldogs. Breed origins seemed to lead to associated behaviors; for example, herding breeds tended to chase their tails. This led researchers to believe that OCD occurrence was based on genetic factors. Among the cats, the most commonly afflicted breed was the Siamese.
Obsessive-compulsive disorder surfaced in dogs and cats—as in humans—around adolescence. The average age for dogs at onset of the disorder was 20.3 months; cats, 28.2 months. The authors therefore recommended that young dogs and cats be screened regularly.



http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2003&PID=6594&O=Generic

http://consumer.vetmedcenter.com/Consumer/display.asp?dt=5M&fn=01560157.htm

THis video shows some examples of dogs with OCD http://www.metacafe.com/watch/76986/doggies/

http://consumer.vetmedcenter.com/Consumer/display.asp?fn=P-MR-M-Be_5-sterotypsoK91XX.xml