Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Hunter killed

Golden Girls
November 12th, 2006, 09:08 AM
The Gazette
Published: Sunday, November 12, 2006
A hunter in his 70s died after he was shot yesterday afternoon in Ste. Anne du Sault, about 130 kilometres northeast of Montreal. He was on a trail with a group of other hunters at the time. Police are investigating, but said last night the shooting appears to have been an accident.
The Gazette (Montreal) 2006
I'm not saying he deserved to die but they say this shooting appears to have been an accident - yet killing wildlife is their right :mad:

erykah1310
November 12th, 2006, 11:13 AM
How tragic...
I know the general opinion regarding hunting on this site so I will not defend it however, I truely feel for this hunter and his family.

Golden Girls
November 12th, 2006, 12:05 PM
I'm not sure the general population regarding hunting wouldn't agree with you Erykah and certainly your entitled to your opinion without judgement. I feel for the hunter and his family but also feel equally sad for all animals as well.

Prin
November 12th, 2006, 02:49 PM
I think shooting anything is wrong, so it's equally bad that the hunter got shot, regardless of what he was out there to do. :shrug:

MyBirdIsEvil
November 12th, 2006, 04:10 PM
I'm not saying he deserved to die but they say this shooting appears to have been an accident - yet killing wildlife is their right

What ARE you saying then? Because what you're implying is way over the line IMO.

Maya
November 12th, 2006, 04:19 PM
Sad and ironic isn't it. I think if I was the hunter i'd be like "well I guess it's my turn now, now I know what it feels like". If it was sport hunting I assume these people don't have much self empathy to extend outward, at least not to animals anyway.:(

phoenix
November 12th, 2006, 04:51 PM
I agree Maya. I'm sorry if it offends people, but I don't care. Play with fire, you get burned, IMO. They didn't have too much empathy for the animals they're callously killing, so I have other things to worry/care about more than this.

Frenchy
November 12th, 2006, 04:53 PM
Yep , when people play with guns......

chico2
November 12th, 2006, 05:02 PM
Here in Ontario a woman,a wife and mother,was shot to death while out hiking,
not knowing hunting-season had started.
She was wearing a bright red sweater and jeans,what's wrong with these brave hunters,they cannot see the difference between a woman and a deer??Maybe too many brewskies??
It's like shoot first,ask questions later:yell:
Yes,I am definetly anti-hunting and I am glad I don't live anywhere near where hunting goes on.
I could not imagine living in the beautiful country side,having to listen to gun-shots disturb my peace,knowing an animal who a few days ago was gracing on my property,now is beeing blown to bits.It's just wrong IMO.

Frenchy
November 12th, 2006, 05:05 PM
I hear you Chico2, there's a nice trail about 10 kms from my house. I used to take the fuzzbutts there from time to time until one day when I saw 2 hunting 'houses' in trees. Never went back. :mad:

Golden Girls
November 12th, 2006, 07:11 PM
What ARE you saying then? Because what you're implying is way over the line IMO.I guess it depends on who's line I'm crossing then hey :frustrated: You have a right to your opinion regarding hunting or whatever ... just not on my opinions.

I am not implying anything - I am saying that it's sad someone died no matter who or how, but to call it an accident is ironic. We certainly know it wasn't self defence, was it :rolleyes:

erykah1310
November 12th, 2006, 07:28 PM
They didn't have too much empathy for the animals they're callously killing, so I have other things to worry/care about more than this.

Im just going to touch on this, for I dont want to start a heated debate on hunting.

However, how can one say that there is no empathy??? The animals that are hunted, are consumed. Mostly everything is used in some way.
The animal ( for example Moose) lived its life free, wild and happy. That is WAY more than what can be said for most of the cattle, chicken, turkey or pork that is readily available at a grocery store. They live out their short lives being pumped with hormones and being fed rendered animals ( totally out of thier diet)
I find it a lot less cruel to hunt something wild then to basically torture a captive animal so that there is enough ham and turkey to go around in time for christmas.:shrug:

Yes i do understand that there are unethical hunters ( as it is with everything) who only may injure thier "prey" and not look for it causing needless suffering but as with everything there are the few people who make it so much worse than it must be.
Also, yes I do understand that it "isnt fair" that the hunter has a gun and the animal has nothing .... but what does the livestock have??? Nothing either.

I do not agree with "baiting" or "dogging" for IMO that is a lazy way to hunt. Make the dogs chase it right to you.


Not every hunter actually kills every year. My dad hasnt shot for almost 7 years now. But still enjoys going out, regardless!

No person "deserves" to die, regardless of what their "hobbies" or beliefs are. Unless they are causing severe trauma and destruction then they do deserve to be punished.

phoenix
November 12th, 2006, 07:40 PM
fair enough erykah but if you didn't want to start a debate, you shouldn't have picked on my quote.

As GG said, you're entitled to your opinion, I just don't happen to agree with it. I have chased enough hunters off of my parent's land, corraled enough 'hunting dogs' who were running my horses, and dealt with enough brainless idiots with guns that my opinions are pretty fixed on this topic.

There may be some who hunt for sustenance, but not many. I've found headless carcasses dumped on the side of the road. What is that about, if not senseless killing and lack of empathy?

If we are so married to nature that we feel we want to experience the killing of it first hand, then we should be so honest as to take our turn in the food chain. But we don't do that, do we.

I can see bow hunting. I can see culling for diseased animals. But they are looking for racks (antlers) and they're using high powered machines that they can't handle. I know there are exceptions but ... in my estimation they are few and far between.

There are better cases to spend our heart on than this one.

erykah1310
November 12th, 2006, 07:53 PM
I wasnt "picking" on your quote but that is just the one that got to me

I do not expect everyone to agree with me for if everyone agreed with everyone else what would there be left to talk about??

I do agree that there are better cases to spend our heart on than this one, however it is tragic that someone has died. He wasnt hunted for food, it was an accident.

As far as hunting for antlers??? I really have never heard of anyone shooting an animal for the rack alone. Perhaps things are different in a far less populated area such as where i am from. Hunters from around here hunt for food. Freezers are filled with meat and the exchanges begin ( ex. we hunted moose and the neighbour hunted deer, we trade some moose for deer and so on.) Perhaps my family and comunity are the only exceptions to the "brainless idiots" :shrug:

Bow hunting IMO is far more cruel than hunting with rifles or other "high powered machienes that they can not handle" with bow hunting there is a far greater chance of causing injury and suffering.

I just want it to be clear to the mods and other members that I by no means have taken any offence to any opinion stated by either Pheonix or the others.Also I hope that I have not offended anyone either. I just feel that the whole generalization of "hunters" should be cleared up. We are not all bad, as it is with pet owners, parents ect.

coppperbelle
November 12th, 2006, 08:10 PM
It is very sad to hear when anyone has to die especially in unfortunate circumstances.
Let's not forget that this man was someones son, maybe a husband, a father. They will all surely miss him and their lives will change as a result.

LM1313
November 12th, 2006, 08:29 PM
I wouldn't say hunters deserve to die, but I don't think it's very surprising that one would, considering he's going off into the woods where he knows a lot of people are going to be discharging weapons. Kind of like kids playing on the railroad tracks. We have enough idiots on the road, now you're going into the woods where the same idiots have guns? (Not that all hunters are idiots.)

I don't approve of hunting because the whole idea behind it is that people ENJOY killing things. It's okay to kill for food, but to enjoy killing is a sin, IMO, whether you're going after a human, cow, deer, or ant. You're destroying a life; feel bad about it. My dad used to go deer hunting and after hearing stories from him, I have to wonder how he could bear to shoot anything. How do you shoot a deer down in a little valley that knows you're stalking him and is trying to hide by "crawling" out?

However, at least wild animals have a better quality of life than farm animals.

coppperbelle
November 12th, 2006, 09:24 PM
As far as hunting for antlers??? I really have never heard of anyone shooting an animal for the rack alone. Perhaps things are different in a far less populated area such as where i am from. Hunters from around here hunt for food. Freezers are filled with meat and the exchanges begin ( ex. we hunted moose and the neighbour hunted deer, we trade some moose for deer and so on.) Perhaps my family and comunity are the only exceptions to the "brainless idiots"


During the week I live in the city but on weekends I live in the country. My country neighbors are not rich people and depend on the hunting season to fill their freezers and feed their families. I don't know about exchanging meat as I don't hunt and am just a weekend resident. After a couple of years they are starting to accept us city folks so maybe they will invite us to share with them one day :)
I will agree that there are some that ruin it for everyone. Last fall I found what I think was the stomach of a deer left on a path I walk with my dogs. I have no idea who left it there but I seriously doubt it was a local hunter.
I have relatives that do hunt and eat the meat they kill. I also have a relative that buys cow and deer hides. He in turn sells them to companies that make leather products including companies like GM. This is not a sideline business but his livelihood. No part of the animal is wasted. For some it is a sport but for many it is a way of life and no different than a farmer who kills his cow for meat for the winter.

hazelrunpack
November 12th, 2006, 11:07 PM
I wouldn't say hunters deserve to die, but I don't think it's very surprising that one would, considering he's going off into the woods where he knows a lot of people are going to be discharging weapons. Kind of like kids playing on the railroad tracks. We have enough idiots on the road, now you're going into the woods where the same idiots have guns? (Not that all hunters are idiots.)

I don't approve of hunting because the whole idea behind it is that people ENJOY killing things. It's okay to kill for food, but to enjoy killing is a sin, IMO, whether you're going after a human, cow, deer, or ant. You're destroying a life; feel bad about it. My dad used to go deer hunting and after hearing stories from him, I have to wonder how he could bear to shoot anything. How do you shoot a deer down in a little valley that knows you're stalking him and is trying to hide by "crawling" out?

However, at least wild animals have a better quality of life than farm animals.

I, too, was once very anti-hunting, but your closing statement here was exactly what got me thinking, LM1313. The life of a beef cow is idyllic...right up until she is loaded on a rattling, crowded contraption and hauled off to a stockyard. The beef we eat from the grocery store is easy on our consciences. We don't have to look the cow in the eyes. We don't have to take responsibility for the cow's death. How many people think of the cow when they cut into their steak?

When I eat game, I think of that animal all through the meal. I appreciate that animal's beauty and the bounty before me. I know where that animal lived, how it died; I can respect the life it led and the death it encountered. I know how the meat was cleaned, stored, prepared. And I have a whole new appreciation of the blessings of that meal before me.

IMO--if you eat meat, you are responsible for that animal's death. You may not have killed it, but if it is eaten, it was killed by someone for the diner's benefit. It seems more moral to me, cleaner somehow, when I eat game, knowing how it died, having looked it in the eye, than when I eat beef, having not seen the life or death of that animal.

We are hunters. We are not idiots. We never have shot anyone in the woods. We do accept the risks that there are those out there who are not as conscientious. We don't enjoy the hunt for the sake of the killing. We enjoy the hunt (primarily bird hunting) for the sake of working with the dogs, seeing the woods, seeing the wildlife, and appreciating the outdoors. The few birds we take each season are a blessing, and each is appreciated.

Many of our neighbors also hunt. They hunt for food, not because they enjoy the kill.

I know there are "bad" hunters out there, wasteful killers who make a bad impression on everyone. I used to think they were in the majority. But don't condemn a whole group of people for just a few bad apples. Most hunters are not like that.

It is a tragedy when anyone dies an untimely death like this hunter did--regardless of what he was doing when he died. In another week, more than a hundred thousand deer hunters will be hitting the Wisconsin woods for the gun deer season. Of those 100,000 + hunters, anywhere from 0 to 7 will die of gunshot wounds, mostly self-inflicted. More people will die on the roads in car accidents than in the woods during that time. Are there yingyang deer hunters? You betchya. Are they all yingyangs? No.

Sorry to focus in on your post LM1313, but there were just points in it that I felt needed addressing. I hope I haven't offended anyone, and I certainly am not intending to pick on you.

Different people from different backgrounds just have different takes on things.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 12th, 2006, 11:37 PM
Perhaps my family and comunity are the only exceptions to the "brainless idiots"

No, you're not, because me, my b/f and our families are the same way.

I just think it's ridiculous to bash people for hunting because apparently they're "cruel".
Deer live in th wilderness, the wilderness is cruel.
When deer become overpopulated they STARVE to death. How do you propose we keep the deer population in check? Do most of you anti-hunting people think it's less cruel for the deer to starve to death?
There are no predators around here to keep deer in check, and even if there were would it be less cruel for a pack of wolves to bring a deer down and viciously tear it apart? Not to me.
Anyone who is a fairly decent shot can bring a deer down in one shot, the deer up until that point didn't know what was going to happen and didn't know what hit it, that's not cruel to me.

Most people eat meat, sorry, but it's true, because people are omnivores. At least someone who shoots a deer and eats it is taking responsibility for where their meat came from. As other have said, that deer lived in the wild, it wasn't pumped with hormones or mistreated up until the point it was killed.

Everyone has the right to their opinion, and I'm not debating that, but I also have the right to disagree with those opinions and state my own.
I just think it's wrong to act like someone is cruel, or deserves to be shot because they hunt. In that case I guess you should call everyone who eats meat cruel and find it ironic if they die at the butcher shop, because someone is killing the meat they're eating, they're just not doing it themselves.
That's not the definition of irony to me. Irony would be if the deer who was being hunted ended up killing the hunter. Some hunter getting killed by another person while out hunting deer isn't ironic, it's just sad. People need to learn how to use their weapons correctly and safely just like a car or any other object that's capable of killing someone in the wrong hands.

technodoll
November 12th, 2006, 11:55 PM
to call hunting a "sport" is moronic. in a sport, both teams know the rules and willingly engage in the game. how on earth is hunting fair for the poor animals? do they have guns to fight back? :confused: i have hunters in my family and am totally ashamed of that that branch of the tree :sad: i don't understand hunting, i don't like eating animals, i hate the bloody slaughter and don't see the point of the whole thing. i mean, go shoot darts or something! leave the poor animals alone :frustrated:

hazelrunpack
November 13th, 2006, 12:24 AM
to call hunting a "sport" is moronic. in a sport, both teams know the rules and willingly engage in the game. how on earth is hunting fair for the poor animals? do they have guns to fight back? :confused: i have hunters in my family and am totally ashamed of that that branch of the tree :sad: i don't understand hunting, i don't like eating animals, i hate the bloody slaughter and don't see the point of the whole thing. i mean, go shoot darts or something! leave the poor animals alone :frustrated:

Hunting is hard to understand for a lot of people. I didn't understand it for a long time. However, I don't consider it "sport", or a "game". It is life and death. It has been so for a very long time. Don't ever think, however, that the wildlife does not "understand" the game. Not only humans hunt. Animals face the danger of predators every living moment. They do understand the hunt and react accordingly. You do not go out in the woods and take for the asking.

I do comprehend both sides of the issue. City-born and -raised, I was anti-hunting until my college years, when I began working behind hunting dogs with my husband-to-be. The joys of working with your dogs in beautiful environs, of finding game, and watching them work it... Those are the main motivations of the hunt. Not the killing. And although I enjoy eating game, it is not the be-all and end-all of the hunt.

I know it seems contradictory to love and respect the animals, and then go out and try to kill one, but when you do so, you appreciate the ramifications of what it is you're doing. It's not as easy to appreciate the sacrifice of the cows or the lambs or the calves--their deaths come far away and out of sight. They do not understand what it is to be hunted. Death comes to them at the hands of creatures they have been raised to trust. They don't have a chance to escape it. This, too, is not sport, but life and death at its saddest, IMO. How is the stockyard fair to the beef cattle? How is the slaughter of poultry fair to the chickens? :shrug:

It is a matter of perspective. But I do understand your point of view. I value your input in this forum and I hope my point of view does not put me on your black list :fingerscr

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 12:38 AM
I value your input in this forum and I hope my point of view does not put me on your black list

of course not :eek:

just expressing opinions, and not too happy with the state of the world in general but :shrug: what can i do? i just try to be at peace with everything the best i can... and that includes having intelligent conversations with smart people ;)

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 12:42 AM
*backs slowly out of the room*

hazelrunpack
November 13th, 2006, 12:46 AM
*backs slowly out of the room*

LOL, Prin!:D

rainbow
November 13th, 2006, 01:28 AM
I don't want to get into this either but most of you know what side of the fence I'm on. I think most city people are against hunting. Have any of you bought venison, bison or buffalo in the supermarket?

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 01:37 AM
Or in your dog food? ;)

rainbow
November 13th, 2006, 02:40 AM
That was going to be my next question. :p

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 02:49 AM
Ok, I'll jump in (mainly because I suck at the arcade tonight lol).

I'm a hypocrite when it comes to meat. I do eat crap meat. Not often, but I do. And it's bad and the animals' quality of life is bad, so it's good that they're put out of their misery, but then another takes its place. I wanted to get my meat from a family farm, but it was $300 for a half a cow, and being a student, I never had a wad that big handy. :shrug:

But my man's family hunts and I don't approve. When you live in the city, I just don't think you have to hunt. :shrug: And on top of that, I don't think it's a fair fight. If you were to run after them with a spear (or a fork- for dramatic effect), and you actually manage to kill one, it would probably be the weakest one. When you're sitting still in the bush for hours with your long range shot gun and shoot whoever is there first (ok, so there are laws about females and stuff, but still) without the animal even being aware that you're there or being given a chance to outrun you, I just don't think that's a fair fight. :shrug:

Hey, I already said I was a hypocrite.:shrug:

rainbow
November 13th, 2006, 03:10 AM
There are also hunting regulations which limit what and when you are allowed to hunt. Also, the farmers here complain about the elk and deer destroying their land and are always wanting the regulations loosened.

coppperbelle
November 13th, 2006, 06:47 AM
Personally I don't think I could kill an animal but I do indulge in a the occasional steak. I also eat chicken, pork and wear suede and leather products. I know the way these animals are slaughtered and believe me the way a deer is killed is far less traumatic. Most don't know what hit them and die instantly. At least a deer has a chance of getting away from a hunter. The same thing can't be said about a cow.
With no natural predators the deer populations are growing yearly. Without a hunt they would continue to grow and as was mentioned starve to death. They also can carry disease and are often hit by cars as they wander into the streets at night.

chico2
November 13th, 2006, 08:03 AM
We do know a few people who excitedly go on huntingtrips every year.
One particular hunter,has no qualms about killing anything that moves in the forest,be it bears,foxes,raccoons,dogs,cats or anything in his scope.
I have yet to see him bring home anything for the dinnertable.
I cannot help getting the feeling,his(and his friends) hunting is purely for the joy of killing,a macho thing:frustrated:
Yes,there are hunters who feed their families and although they kill an animal,are thankful for the food they provide and respect our wildlife,but I believe in 2006 these hunters are few and far between.
An ailing deer being taken down by a pack of wolves,is the way of nature,a crossbow or gun is not.
However,since we humans have decimated the predators habitat,I can understand to a point,where hunting is needed.
Any laws protecting female deer,mother bears etc..sounds good,but is this law ever upheld??
I sincerely doubt it,judging by the many orphaned animals ending up in sanctuaries,or worse yet,found starved to death.
I wish I could cook vegetables in a tasty fullfilling way,to end our meateating days,but I have yet to succeed:confused:
Not a day goes by that I don't think about the animal I am eating,the horror of factory farms and slaughterhouses,the pulsating blood that used to go through,the rare steak I am eating:sad:
Please do not suggest Tofu:yuck:it's been tried and tested and it was the most horrid thing I've ever eaten...

Golden Girls
November 13th, 2006, 09:12 AM
There are countries poor and starving, I am not talking about necessity.

Given a choice killing an animal with one shot and using all parts (no profit gained)IMO far less cruel than factory farming. I do agree it's hypocritical to be against hunters and eat meat. Besides supporting horrific cruelty your consuming hormones and antibiotics. Say what you will, you do not need meat, chicken or fish in your diets to go on breathing however I do respect people rights to eat what they chose.

In the wild animals kill animals - that's a fair game and understood, but do not confuse this with hunting and or saying your doing them a favor :pray:

I do not put animals before humans but I don't value an animal's life any less -they both feel pain. I just wish people would leave them alone, nature has it's own way of taking care of itself.

I look at hunting and all use of animals the same way I look at puppy mills - even if I'm the only one :shrug:

Chico It takes time getting use to eating healthy ... I was never big on vegetables and I love them now. I do blood work twice yearly and I'm healthier than I've ever been - I swear.

hazelrunpack
November 13th, 2006, 09:26 AM
One particular hunter,has no qualms about killing anything that moves in the forest,be it bears,foxes,raccoons,dogs,cats or anything in his scope.
I have yet to see him bring home anything for the dinnertable.
I cannot help getting the feeling,his(and his friends) hunting is purely for the joy of killing,a macho thing:frustrated:
Yes,there are hunters who feed their families and although they kill an animal,are thankful for the food they provide and respect our wildlife,but I believe in 2006 these hunters are few and far between.

Yep, I've met This Guy, too...there are a few of Them out there--in the same way that there are Guys to go into bars looking for a fight and think it's manly to duke it out with someone in the alley...or the Road Rage Guy, or worse yet, the Drunk Driver. But you can't judge all of humanity by the bad guys (although I have to admit that in certain moods, I do:o ).

The vast majority of hunters I know are well-behaved, thinking individuals who enjoy the hunt whether they get their quarry or not. Despite the fact that the news covers mostly tragic/bad events, do you judge your neighbors by what you see on the news? Unfortunately, it's the Bad Hunters like the Guy you know who have the biggest braggadocio--the decent guys who go out aren't as vocal. You might know more hunters than you think--they just don't talk about it.

Any laws protecting female deer,mother bears etc..sounds good,but is this law ever upheld??
I sincerely doubt it,judging by the many orphaned animals ending up in sanctuaries,or worse yet,found starved to death.

There are laws...and the penalties are stiff. Ethical hunters report poaching and other violations when they see them. Most of the orphaned animals we see around here are victims of car accidents. There are a whole lot more car/deer accidents in Wisconsin than there are illegally gotten deer. And most of the WI seasons take place after the young of the year are pretty much independent.

Not a day goes by that I don't think about the animal I am eating,the horror of factory farms and slaughterhouses,the pulsating blood that used to go through,the rare steak I am eating

Bless you! I think that if you ask around, you'll find you are one of the few who do. Does that make most diners in steak houses unethical? No... It's a mark of how far Humans have displaced themselves from nature and the necessities of life. We take too much for granted IMO.

Please do not suggest Tofu:yuck:it's been tried and tested and it was the most horrid thing I've ever eaten...

:D Hey, chico2, in total agreement with you there!! :thumbs up

2beagleboys
November 13th, 2006, 09:37 AM
I think alot of you need to get more educted on the matter....hunting and the hunter..
I Hunt and Im female to boot...
MybirdsEvil has named a few points..but there are many more..get yourself some eduction all.

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 09:45 AM
get yourself some eduction all.


you know, comments like that aren't going to get you anywhere on this forum... first, learn to speak English properly and second, learn to know the members before posting insulting comments like that. ok?

Golden Girls
November 13th, 2006, 09:49 AM
1st off 2beagleboys, it's educated not educted :o I also wonder what you might have to offer that might change at least my opinion on this subject?

hazelrunpack
November 13th, 2006, 11:01 AM
I think alot of you need to get more educted on the matter....hunting and the hunter..
I Hunt and Im female to boot...
MybirdsEvil has named a few points..but there are many more..get yourself some eduction all.

This is about an exchange of ideas, 2beagleboys, not confrontation. The opinions differ, but the thoughtful posts in this thread are not from the uneducated. This is a tough topic--there are a lot of paradoxes involved, recognized by hunters and nonhunters alike. If you can contribute something to the exchange, that's all well and good, but you have to respect other people's opinions, and garner their respect for yourself, or it all comes down to a slapping match which will get you nowhere. :shrug:

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 11:50 AM
thank you, HRP! that was my point, too... :o

Frenchy
November 13th, 2006, 12:20 PM
OK so it's my turn now :evil: :p I just think there's enough meat at the supermarket and at the butcher without having to go in the natural habitat of these animals to kill some more. As for the overpopulation of these animals, we'll deal with it when the time comes.....oh yes, I am AGAINST.:shrug:

Frenchy
November 13th, 2006, 12:22 PM
As for the original subject (hunter gets killed) like someone else here mentioned ; when a bunch of armed people go in the woods, accidents are bound to happen.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 12:58 PM
OK so it's my turn now I just think there's enough meat at the supermarket and at the butcher without having to go in the natural habitat of these animals to kill some more.

I just don't get this kind of logic.
My grandfather was a butcher, my dad has SEEN cows being slaughtered as have I. My grandmother at one time worked in a slaughterhouse she's seen the horrors of cows being slaughtered and processed. I've seen deer be shot, and I've processed the meat myself, and it's not NEAR as horrible as what happens to the food you get in the supermarket. Why is it considered so much more ethical to buy food at the butcher or the supermarket just because you're not having to do the dirtywork? Would you criticize the people like my grandfather and grandmother who actually have to kill or process the cows that are feeding you and your family? Yet hunters are criticized for shooting a wild animal for the meat.

Lets go back to the thread about killing rats for a second. How many of you were against shooting the rats? Rats are wild animals, albeit pests, but they're living things, why is it ok to shoot them and not deer? Because deer are pretty and rats aren't? Deer can become overpopulated and become pests just like any other animal, just because they're not small and creepy doesn't make it less ok to shoot them.

As for the overpopulation of these animals, we'll deal with it when the time comes.....oh yes, I am AGAINST.

The time HAS already come. The state I live in ups the hunting limit just about every year because there's so many deer. Though thousands are killed every year the population still goes UP not down. Believe me, there is NO shortage of deer here. There's thousands of deer hunted every year here, what if those thousands of deer were not killed, they would become overpopulated and starve EXTREMELY quick. Many many more would also be hit by cars on the highway causing human fatalities and the deaths of the deer.
And why is it more ok for a wild animal to kill a deer than someone to shoot it? Yeah, it's really pretty for a deer to get sick and be torn apart by another predator than to be shot in the head, not to me. Humans are predators, the only difference between us and a wild animal is that we have a conscience. A wolf doesn't feel bad when they kill a deer because they don't think about the fact that it was a living thing - just because you are aware of what you are eating doesn't make it wrong to eat it.

Oh yeah, and for all you others touting the fact that city people shouldn't hunt. I'm from the city, I now live in the country. Farming cows destroys so much land it's not even funny. Yeah, factory farms where they push the cows into stalls and pretty much torture them is bad too, but free range cattle take LARGE tracts of land to be raised on. Large pieces of land are cleared, trees are cut down, and habitat that could belong to those deer are destroyed. It's not much different with farming vegetables or grains. Large pieces of land are cleared, and habitat is taken from wild animals, that's not a good thing to me. If you buy from the supermarket you don't know where your food is coming from whether it's meat or not meat, so I'm not sure why buying food from a store should make you feel like you're so much better than someone who hunts deer, it's hypocritical IMO.
Like I said, my grandfather was a butcher, I've known about animal slaughter my whole life, and coming from the city I was always horrified that so many people there were against hunting even though the meat they're buying is so cruelly raised and killed. Many people didn't even know what part of the animal it came from, or what animal it came from for that matter, and didn't even associate the meat with an animal. It's like they blocked it out of their heads that they were even eating a living thing, and that's totally disresepectful to yourself AND the previously living being that you're shoving into your mouth, IMO.

BTW Frenchy, I'm not trying to pick on you or your post, it just allowed me to point out some of my opinions that I wanted to relay to everyone in the thread.

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 01:26 PM
Umm... Just because we write in English, doesn't mean everybody's English here is flawless. And there are a lot of members whose first language is not English.. I don't think that should affect the respect they are given.:shrug:

What I will say though is TELLING people to get educated and EDUCATING them are two different things. Telling doesn't get anybody anywhere.:shrug:

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 01:37 PM
oh this beagle person's English is fine in her other posts, no worries, i check these things out before posting prin ;)

ok no more threadjacking... back to the guy who got shot in the woods... who shot him BTW?

100%doglover
November 13th, 2006, 01:46 PM
Hmmm, this is kind of a heated topic now isn't it! I actually haven't gotten around to reading all of the posts yet but hopefully will find the time later today...

Anyway, just wanted to pipe up and admit (even though it might be against the norm on this board) that I am actually for ethical hunting & even participate in it myself at times. The point for me is that there's ethical hunting and then there's unethical hunting and I have no tolerance for unethical hunters at all. I'm sure a lot of good points have already been brought up on both sides of the issue so I won't get into further detail as it's almost impossible to change anyone's mind on this topic....

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 02:08 PM
The point for me is that there's ethical hunting and then there's unethical hunting and I have no tolerance for unethical hunters at all.

I totally agree. I don't like the people at all who go out, don't site their guns in, don't really know how to shoot and just want to shoot at something. That's unsafe and it's cruel for any animal that that person may hit. Thing is though the number of people like that is slim compared to the number of people that hunt in a safe ethical manner, and those people ruin it for the rest of us. Just like whoever shot the man in the article, there is absolutely NO reason that person should have been out hunting, it makes it unsafe for the rest of the hunters who actually hit what they're aiming at and know how to safely use their firearms.
Unless you know for sure you're going to hit that deer and not someone else, DON'T pull the trigger. Your hand shouldn't even be anywhere near that trigger until you know for sure that you are aimed at what you want to hit.
Anyone who owns a gun should know that gun, know how to use it and know how to safely unload it, load it and handle it, whether that gun is a .22 being used for just shooting targets or a larger caliber for hunting.
That's the sad part about the article - most people are in little danger of being shot while out hunting. More people are killed in car accidents or other daily activities, but he just happened to be around some idiot (the idiot could have been him for that matter, the article didn't say) who couldn't behave in a safe manner. The accident could have been prevented had the person followed proper safety guidelines.
As with ANY potentially dangerous object (be it large machinery like a car, power tools, chemicals etc.), if people know what they're doing and follow the rules, they're not unsafe. There are MANY potentially dangerous things out there, where the only thing that makes them dangerous is the people that use them improperly.

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 02:20 PM
Anyone who owns a gun should know that gun, know how to use it and know how to safely unload it, load it and handle it

totally agree! but the problem with this is all the SHOULDS. yes, in an ideal world... but in reality we all know this isn't what happens. how many unskilled hunters just injure an animal, which then escapes and is left to die a long painful death? is this really necessary? :confused:

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 02:37 PM
totally agree! but the problem with this is all the SHOULDS. yes, in an ideal world... but in reality we all know this isn't what happens. how many unskilled hunters just injure an animal, which then escapes and is left to die a long painful death? is this really necessary?

Not that many. Most people are looked down on for just injuring a deer, and most people don't wanna track an injured deer down and kill it.
How many deer are injured and run off after being hit by a car. A LOT. And it's a lot more when there's a huge overpopulation. They all need to find a place to eat so they move around a lot more, which includes having to run accross roads and highways.

Is it necessary? Yes, as I said before deer overpopulate and starve and cause all kinds of other problems. Just because they're large and pretty doesn't mean they can't turn into pests either.


As far as the "SHOULDS", how many people are let loose to drive a car and end up killing someone? Believe it or not, cars are more complicated to operate than a gun, and people are let loose in those all the time.
That said, driving is a necessity and so is hunting. Humans are the only meat eater in a lot of areas that can keep the deer population in check.
And like I said, raising free range cattle and even growing grain has A LOT more impact on land than going out and shooting a deer. Have you never seen miles worth of soybean fields? Miles worth of corn fields? Rice fields? HUGE pastures of cattle. I have, I live between them all, and the impact is scary. They also have to burn these fields off (the grain and veggie ones I mean) after the growing season which puts polution into the air.
Eating meat from the store or eating just veggies and grains, low impact? I don't think so. You can NOT grow and raise enough food for a huge population of people without having a huge impact on the enviroment, and deer hunting would be the least of my worries.

Think about energy waste.
Grains have to be grown which requires a lot of fuel and energy. They then have to be transported by some kind of vehicle (which includes planes or boats for imports) to a processing facility which is using electric to process. From there they have to be taken by truck to the grocery store. You then have to drive your car to the store to pick it up. You then have to use some kind of fuel if you plan to cook it.
Same for meat. Grains have to be grown, processed, transported etc. to feed the animals. The animals then have to be transported, slaughtered processed and then shipped to the store where you most likely have to drive your car there to pick it up, etc.
It's a lot more complicated than just "Don't hunt! It's mean!".

Then there's the amount of land that has to be destroyed just to feed people. Whether it be grains or meat there are large portions of land being destroyed in order to grow those products and put them in the store for you to buy.

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 02:50 PM
MyBird, i'm not discussing the ethics of factory farming or reckless drivers here... i know the sad facts as well as you do :) i'm just saying there are many unskilled hunters out there who have no business handling guns of any kind (proof being what started this whole thread...) and since there is no way to control these idiots, hunting season makes a walk in the woods dangerous for everyone including the animals shot for "sport" - YES it IS considered a sport, as sick as it sounds :mad: even if you're a skilled and ethical hunter, that doesn't make the bad ones go away. Deer overpopulation? OK just re-introduce the natural predators which were almost wiped out due to starvation and ensuing disease. problem solved (ok this is simplistic, but just proves how we humans have screwed up natural habitat et al). sigh. guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue... you go hunt, and i'll not hunt nor eat any product of hunting :pawprint:

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 03:07 PM
and since there is no way to control these idiots, hunting season makes a walk in the woods dangerous for everyone including the animals shot for "sport

You can't control ALL idiots anywhere. Here you are required to take hunter safety courses before you can even get a deer tag, so the people going out and hunting legally know how they're supposed to behave when they hunt. Those that don't take hunter safety courses and go shoot a deer are poaching which is illegal. Also, people often make walks in the woods dangerous for themselves by not wearing bright colors, or by hiking in areas specifically designated for hunting, there are idiots on both sides.

And the only reason I mention ethics is to get people thinking. Several people in here mentioned that it's better to buy from the store. People drive to the store and buy food without thinking of the energy wasted getting the food to them.

Deer overpopulation? OK just re-introduce the natural predators which were almost wiped out due to starvation and ensuing disease.

You're right that is simplistic. As much as some people hate to accept it damage has already been done to those predators habitat.
You know what one of main causes of damage to wild animals habitat is? FARMING. That's my point. When you buy groceries from the store you're not HELPING wild animals, you're helping in many ways to take their habitat away, why does no one see that?
When you buy rice there are HUGE pieces of land flattened, levees built and fields flooded. When you buy soy products, there are huge pieces of land destroyed, tilled and planted to send soy products to the grocery store.
When you buy corn products, land is flattened, fields planted and not to mention corn is a HUGE destroyer of topsoil.
That's just a few of the impacts that are caused by growing food. My point is, hunting is one of the least impactful practices to feed oneself.
Missouri is one of the biggest growers of rice and other grains. WHOLE swamps were destroyed to grow grains to send to the grocery store for people to eat. You're screwed either way, humans cause a huge impact to feed themselves, and going to the store to buy food doesn't make you a better person than someone hunting. THAT is the attitude that pisses me off "I'm better than you, I don't kill my food". I'm sorry, ANYONE buying from the store is also causing a huge impact on native animal habitat, so I don't get why some people who don't hunt act so high and mighty about it.
I don't care whether someone hunts or buys from the store, I just don't like that "I'm better than you" attitude that some people put forth because they buy from the store instead or don't eat meat.

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 03:14 PM
Deer overpopulation? OK just re-introduce the natural predators which were almost wiped out due to starvation and ensuing disease.

You're right that is simplistic. As much as some people hate to accept it damage has already been done to those predators habitat.
Either way, we've proven over and over that we are NOT good at being "in charge" of ecosystems and biodiversity and no amount of flip flopping is going to change that. Whether we introduce predators or shoot the prey ourselves, we're not fixing things. We just aren't. All we can do is STOP and let things heal. We are not the bosses of nature: we can't destroy it because we believe we are smart enough to recreate it afterward. Who do we think we are?

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 03:18 PM
We just aren't. All we can do is STOP and let things heal. We are not the bosses of nature: we can't destroy it because we believe we are smart enough to recreate it afterward. Who do we think we are?

How do you suggest stopping? It's not that easy.
People are consumers, people want to be able to just run to the store, or go out to a restaurant and eat. How is not hunting helping the ecosystem?
That's the only point I want to put across, buying from the store does NOT mean you're helping the ecosystem. Ignoring the fact that storebought food causes huge pieces of land to be destroyed is NOT helping the ecosystem.
Hunting deer does very little to destroy an ecosystem compared to building stores, growing food, etc., which is why I don't get the rabid anger towards it.
You buy from the store, you hurt wild animals.
You go hunt, you hurt wild animals.
ALL you can do is choose the one that is the lowest impact, and organized hunting is the lesser of the two evils IMO.

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 03:18 PM
You know what one of main causes of damage to wild animals habitat is? FARMING. That's my point

i agree. totally. farming is land-rape.... but since i can't change farming.. and i can choose not to contribute to more deaths by hunting... i don't hunt. why add to the pile, you know? :shrug: it's not much, but it's better than nothing IMO. sigh. :(

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 03:23 PM
I know we can't stop- we're human. What I'm trying to get across is that we have to stop thinking that we can fix what we break ourselves, and stop using that thinking to make things morally and environmentally ok. It's not ok. That's all. None of it is ok. There are too many humans in this world consuming too much. It just not ok and there's nothing to justify it on a moral level.:shrug:

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 03:26 PM
but since i can't change farming.. and i can choose not to contribute to more deaths by hunting

Farming relies on people to buy the products. The more consumers the more land is destroyed. ONE cow relies on a whole heck of a lot of grain to feed itself. ONE cow takes up a heck of a lot of room. ONE cow requires fuel for transport, a place to kill it, plastic to package it in, ALL kinds of things.

You sure as heck CAN choose not to contribute to hunting, that's your choice, but you're causing destruction to other animals, land, the air, everything whether or not you hunt, so I don't see why you'd feel so much better about buying your food instead.

I personally feel bad if I buy food from the store because of how much energy I'm wasting and land I'm destroying.
I also feel terrible about killing a deer and processing it, but I'm only killing that one deer to feed myself and my family. When I buy meat from the store I'm causing ALL KINDS of destruction to people and animals, which personally makes me feel worse.

You guys talk so much about how stopping puppy mills requires not buying from pet stores, NOT contributing money to that terrible business. ALL business works like that.
Well when you don't contribute money to slaughterhouses, farms, grocery stores, etc., you cause them to produce a whole hell of a lot less food, and destroy a whole hell of a lot less land, displacing less wildlife.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 03:28 PM
That's all. None of it is ok. There are too many humans in this world consuming too much. It just not ok and there's nothing to justify it on a moral level

That's why I'm not having kids, there's already too many humans IMO, but that would start a whole other argument :p .

There's many ways to lessen your impact on the earth, and I just don't think buying from the grocery store is one of them.

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 03:28 PM
I don't think Techno eats meat... I think her doggies do, but she doesn't. Am I right?

So that's not really contributing to farming for her person. :shrug:

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 03:30 PM
so we're all supposed to turn into one giant amish community? wow.. that would sure fly in the middle of the city, LOL! :D

I don't think Techno eats meat... I think her doggies do, but she doesn't. Am I right?

yep... i eat very little meat, and only when others make it for me. i could choose to own hamsters (non-carnivorous pets) but i tried to go biking and swimming with one, and it just wasn't the same... plus the darn collar kept slipping off... finally got scooped up by an eagle and that was that. LOL!!

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 03:30 PM
So that's not really contributing to farming for her person.

Veggies and grain don't just appear in thin air. My b/f used to work for a crop duster pilot, and many farmers. I also happen to live surrounded by many of these things, and I can tell you - Grains and veggies destroy a lot, A LOT of land.

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 03:31 PM
Yes, but veggies and grain for cows destroy MUCH MUCH more land.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 03:33 PM
so we're all supposed to turn into one giant amish community? wow.. that would sure fly in the middle of the city, LOL!

Nope, as I said, I'm from the city and there's no way to get around that stuff.

But I feel I'm saving a heck of a lot of energy by just killing and eating ONE deer on my own instead of buying a cut of meat from the store.

I'm not saying people go hunt, I personally don't like shooting deer though I'll butcher the meat, but I just think it's hypocritical to look down on hunters for feeding themselves in a different way.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 03:33 PM
Yes, but veggies and grain for cows destroy MUCH MUCH more land.

I completely agree. I actually stated that in one of my previous posts.

I try to eat as little meat as possible, but eating soy products rather than meat isn't necessarily lower impact depending on which way you look at it, and if you don't eat meat it has to be supplemented with something.

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 03:34 PM
ok before this thread gets shut down... i'd love to know what happened to the guy who shot the hunter! will there be a manslaughter charge or anything? :confused:

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 03:34 PM
But I feel I'm saving a heck of a lot of energy by just killing and eating ONE deer on my own instead of buying a cut of meat from the store.


but i hate wild meat :yuck: am i supposed to feed on grass? :confused:

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 03:35 PM
What if you hunt a cow? Technically, it wouldn't be "grocery store" cow... :D

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 03:38 PM
but i hate wild meat am i supposed to feed on grass?

LOL, no, I'm not saying you should eat wild meat. I'm just trying to show that hunting isn't necessarily higher impact than buying food instead.

What if you hunt a cow? Technically, it wouldn't be "grocery store" cow...

There are plenty of people who raise their own meat, and that is definately lower impact than buying from the store, but cows wouldn't be a very good choice.
Goats maybe - they're pretty low impact to raise for food :shrug:

I know you were kidding, don't worry :p , just trying to make a point.

I'm not attacking anyone for their personal choices, I just want everyone to realise that you're impacting the enviroment no matter WHAT you do.

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 03:40 PM
I just want everyone to realise that you're impacting the enviroment no matter WHAT you doMe TOO! So there you go. :D

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 03:42 PM
I just want everyone to realise that you're impacting the enviroment no matter WHAT you do.

oh that is old news... too many demanding, hungry humans on too little land :( now even the oceans are being depleted! :eek:

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 03:42 PM
Me TOO! So there you go
Well FINE then!!!

What were we arguing about again?:confused:

If only everyone could have an intelligent heated discussion without hating each other :rolleyes: . Maybe a lot more would get done.

FelineFatale
November 13th, 2006, 03:50 PM
Well you know the saying. In the USA they have drive by's, in Canada they have "Hunting Accidents".

2beagleboys
November 13th, 2006, 03:52 PM
..Hi.... heated thread sorry...( and dont expect you all to accept it )
but not going to concern myself..whatever!!
hmmm.. maybe I could have chosen my words better..or not..open topic right!!..
:rolleyes: Hmmmmm sorry for MISSING a letter in my wording..and one checking my other post..sounds alot like many of you are very judgemental all the same..
Im :cool: with that..:shrug:
most people who go on about hunters and taking deer during hunting season, really have to educate and understand what goes on before thinking that we are killing bambi..Ive heard some terrible stories around here during hunting season and the poaching as well.poaching does have to stop,just like the guns on the street..but hey..when and how who knows..but I have been hunting for 22 yrs and love it..the challenge.. We all hunt for different reasons..now you all wont like what im going to tell you now..I hunt and kill deer and dont like the meat..Yuk:eek: ..lol..but alot do. Friends, family get it or its donated..

I will take my leave, say what you will because you can..and so can I..
mybird has tryed to help with some posts... read between the lines..
im not getting into it with anyone....
dont think I will be back..thanks to all who saw the puppy pics..it was fun and they are doing well..
I have other site to be at..bye all..:sorry:
maybe I can take typing lesson..lol..any mistakes??????

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 03:54 PM
Well you know the saying. In the USA they have drive by's, in Canada they have "Hunting Accidents".

Yeah, Missouri has "Hunting Accidents" too sometimes.
I think that's why you're legally required to wear orange vests here now, you can't say "Sorry officer, he looked JUST like a deer in that big orange vest and hat"

Maya
November 13th, 2006, 03:56 PM
Why are some people hunting if they don't enjoy the activity itself? Is it really just to save money, eat ethical meat, save the environment etc. How would it save money if you factor in time and other costs involved, you'd have to be doing okay to afford to go hunting in the first place. :confused:

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 04:05 PM
Why are some people hunting if they don't enjoy the activity itself? Is it really just to save money, eat ethical meat, save the environment etc. How would it save money if you factor in time and other costs involved, you'd have to be doing okay to afford to go hunting in the first place.

I'm not saying my b/f doesn't enjoy shooting, but the only reason he goes to get a deer is for meat. If we weren't going to eat the meat or give it to others to eat he wouldn't be shooting anything :shrug: . He doesn't care if a deer has a huge rack of antlers or anything, he shoots whatever comes along and brings it home for the meat.
There are plenty of hunters that, yes they enjoy shooting deer, but they're not wasteful and don't just discard the meat in order to be able to shoot something.
Those that waste the meat, well yeah, they're idiots. Many people around here who hunt don't like the taste of deer, but give the meat from their deer to people who can't afford to eat, not ALL hunters are uncaring killers.
Many people around here who hit a deer with their car often butcher it up and give it to people in need or keep it themselves :shrug: . Not everyone is wasteful.

There are those like me that just enjoy the meat and get no enjoyment out of shooting something. It actually does come out cheaper per pound to get a deer tag, butcher the meat yourself, etc. (around here anyway). If you're paying someone else to process the meat, no it's not really any cheaper.

you'd have to be doing okay to afford to go hunting in the first place.

Many people around here aren't very well off. They save up plenty of money to buy a deer tag and bag a deer, but the thing is it would be more expensive for them in the long run to go to the store and buy beef (or any other meat for that matter) per pound.
Yes they're saving up the money to hunt, but they're butchering the meat themselves and not having to pay a middle man, so it comes out MUCH cheaper.
Of course I can only speak of the people around here, I don't know how expensive it is to get tags and everything up there.

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 04:10 PM
i hope all those raw scraps (bones, innards, unwanted meat parts, head, etc) goes to the dogs too... THAT is recycling at its max :)

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 04:15 PM
:shrug: I don't feed my dogs raw, Walnut won't even eat it and I don't know about Royce.
My b/f's mom however gives most of the bones and leftover trimmings to her dogs, and so do most other people. Many people put the trimmings and stuff back in the woods for other animals to eat. There are a fair amount of people around here that don't even feed kibble, their dogs get left over meat and stuff and they're just as healthy.

As far as the innards I wouldn't feed those to my dogs, many deer, especially in this warm climate tend to have parasites (I just saw one drop out of some intestines the other day :yuck: ), so it's a bad idea.
Most people leave them in the woods or in an open area that's frequented by predators and scavangers,and raccoons, vultures, coyote, fox, and other animals get their share, so it's not wasted.

Golden Girls
November 13th, 2006, 04:15 PM
I haven't read any of the new posts above yet but I just want to say something. I was just driving my son to work and while stopped at a light the truck in front of me had a dead deer tied in the back. I came face to face with a dead deer ... as if posting earlier wasn't hard enough.

I've never came close to a dead animal other then maybe road kill or when Misti killed a squirrel - it was even more horrible than I thought. Call me a wuss or whatever it is just really sad. I almost had an accident after seeing that poor deer in the back lying there all dead. I hope his family is hungry but this is the city usually we buy our meat. It's very usual to see something like that, that's all.

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 04:17 PM
I haven't read any of the new posts above yet but I just want to say something. I was just driving my son to work and while stopped at a light the truck in front of me had a dead deer tied in the back. When I used to print pics in a photolab, I got the "undoing" of the deer and moose pics all the time at this time of year. It was so horrible. I really hope they took the pics for educational purposes and not for entertainment..:eek:

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 04:17 PM
As far as the innards I wouldn't feed those to my dogs, many deer, especially in this warm climate tend to have parasites (I just saw one drop out of some intestines the other day ), so it's a bad idea.
Most people leave them in the woods or in an open area that's frequented by predators and scavangers,and raccoons, vultures, coyote, fox, and other animals get their share, so it's not wasted.


:yuck: parasites :yuck:

good recycling idea, to bring the leftovers back into the woods though :thumbs up

ok i think i'll go fix myself a tofu salad for dinner, LOL! :D

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 04:18 PM
tsk tsk... And where do you think the tofu comes from, Techno?

That's right: the Tofudabeast.

tsk tsk. :sad:

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 04:21 PM
I almost had an accident after seeing that poor deer in the back lying there all dead. I hope his family is hungry but this is the city usually we buy our meat. It's very usual to see something like that, that's all.

When I lived in the city many people hunted out in the country and brought back meat to share with everyone. There's people in the city that don't just go kill deer and throw the bodies out.

As far as seeing dead animals, if you eat meat there are animals dying for your benefit and it's just as gruesome, so I don't know what to tell you.

From the time I was a little kid my dad always told me where my meat came from and what parts of the animals it came from and what kind of animal it was from. It gave me respect for my food to know where it was coming from and to know that a living being died for me to eat.
I think way too many people put meat in their mouth without thinking about the fact that they're eating from a previously living being.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 04:21 PM
Technodoll, think about the poor dead soybean plants! *gasp*

J/k :p

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 04:23 PM
meet Tofudabeast

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/220000/220336DIkh_w.jpg

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 04:25 PM
Broken link for me.

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 04:26 PM
works now... Here: http://www.worth1000.com/entries/220000/220336DIkh_w.jpg

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 04:27 PM
The page cannot be found

Maybe it's me :confused:

I'll restart.

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 04:27 PM
thanks prin! funny i see the photo fine in my post... weird computers.

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 04:29 PM
lol I think it's the pic. It didn't work for me the first time, so I copied the link and then I came back and it worked and now it works here but not in the link... *twilight zone music plays*

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 04:32 PM
It worked when I c&p'd it into another window.
Stupid computers.
:frustrated: Where is my hammer?

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 04:33 PM
Where is my hammer?

the tofudabeast ate it :eek:

phoenix
November 13th, 2006, 04:44 PM
Wow this has been busy. No new arguments just same old same old.

My problem is the psychology of the whole thing. I have no problem with the ecological viewpoint. However, if you think that most hunters have this at heart, I have to say you'd be wrong. I'm a country girl; I'm not from the city. Hunters don't all line up and pay for their tags; they don't all stay on the property they are supposed to stay on. They don't all take and use up every bit of the animal and put the rest of us loblaws shoppers to shame. Heck, they shop at loblaws, too. You're trying to make us believe that the hunter and his 9 kids all eat deer meat all winter. Puhleeze. They're at Mickey Dee's in the pick up on the way home.

The psychology is this: I think it is civilized, it is human, to want to move away from killing things. In order to kill, one must distance oneself from the soul of the other. That's why eating grocery store meat is easy: it has been distanced from the living entity. I wouldn't have an issue with someone killing for food as needed. I have an issue with the enjoyment of the task. I would equally have issue with a butcher who, over a beer, shouted I LOVE MY WORK! I love seeing those cow's eyes as they die, and the chickens as I wring their necks. And if they run, boy, even better! What fun!

I don't get how you think hunting is fun, or a sport. If it's the only way to eat, great. But as I said earlier, all of these proponents of the natural food chain: I don't see you laying out your kids (or yourself, if you're weak) in front of one of our natural predators to keep the chain going. There's something to be said for being civilized, IMO.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 04:54 PM
However, if you think that most hunters have this at heart, I have to say you'd be wrong.

I can't say what people have at heart, I'm just going by what most people DO around here. Plenty of people LIKE killing deer and not debating that, I'm just debating the fact that grocery store meat is lower impact than hunted meat.

I don't get how you think hunting is fun, or a sport. If it's the only way to eat, great. But as I said earlier, all of these proponents of the natural food chain: I don't see you laying out your kids (or yourself, if you're weak) in front of one of our natural predators to keep the chain going. There's something to be said for being civilized, IMO.

I don't get how people thinking hunting is fun or a sport either :shrug:
As long as someone isn't going around poaching or destroying things in the process I don't really care what enjoyment they get out of it, you can't MAKE people hate killing deer if they like it. What people think while killing something is their own thoughts, I'm not going to harrass them for thinking something or enjoying doing something. If they're not breaking the law or causing a huge impact on the land and the animals it's their personal choice to enjoy it or not enjoy, though I don't understand how it would be enjoyable
As far as the food chain, I see kind of what you're saying, but how is raising something specifically to kill it better? Civilization doesn't necessarily cater to the health of wild animals, even by not hunting, so I don't get the comparison.
Being "civilized" isn't necessarily a good thing depending on which way you look at it. Whether something is civilized or not largely depends on the opinion of the observer.
If you eat meat, whether it's hunted or not, SOMEONE is killing on your behalf, and I just don't see the point of criticizing the hunter or butcher because you're not the one doing the horrible task yourself.

Golden Girls
November 13th, 2006, 05:05 PM
If you eat meat, whether it's hunted or not, SOMEONE is killing on your behalf, and I just don't see the point of criticizing the hunter or butcher because you're not the one doing the horrible task yourself.I agree. And speaking of butchers or people working in slaughterhouses :shrug: you'd have to either be made of steel or not care but cutting up animals is just not something I think most people can do. I refer them to like people in Texas Chainsaw Masacre

chico2
November 13th, 2006, 05:08 PM
Well guys,nothing anybody says will make me change my mind about hunting:sad:but that's ok,no hard feelings..
We once stopped at a red light,somewhere in Pennsylvania on our way south,a pickup truck pulls up,it was loaded with deer,must have been at least 20..hoofed legs and beautiful heads hanging off the truck:sad:
My husband thought it might have been roadkill,judging by the 3 people in the cab,I'd say they were hunters, I was sick for the rest of the trip.
As for roadkill,the highway through Pa,WV and Virginia are a horror-story,beautiful scenery,the best roads,but one year I counted 150 dead deer+numerous dogs,cats etc..
The BIG hunters dressed in their camouflage(sp??)many with beagles running all over the road,is enough to give you nightmares.
What 2Beagleboys,told us,makes me sad for those two little adorable pups,I've seen enough of what happens to these dogs if they do not perform and where they end up:sad: Not all hunters love their dogs,most are penned outside,until one day when they are of no use and will have the same fate as the deer or whatever the owner hunted.
Sorry for ranting,just when we were having a cool off period:sorry:

Maya
November 13th, 2006, 05:08 PM
I'm not saying my b/f doesn't enjoy shooting, but the only reason he goes to get a deer is for meat.

So he doesn't hunt for the shooting/killing part but he enjoys it? Do you think he would go if he didn't enjoy the shooting? Maybe there wouldn't be so much debate on this topic if hunter's admitted they do it because they enjoy it. The people that eat supermarket meat usually admit they like to eat it and that they are hypocritical for doing so.

Many people around here aren't very well off. They save up plenty of money to buy a deer tag and bag a deer, but the thing is it would be more expensive for them in the long run to go to the store and buy beef (or any other meat for that matter) per pound.

That doesn't make sense because if you can save up plenty then you are doing okay (maybe not great) but okay. Poor people or the not well off can't save up any money, they can't even go into debt because they don't have credit.

When I used to print pics in a photolab, I got the "undoing" of the deer and moose pics all the time at this time of year. It was so horrible. I really hope they took the pics for educational purposes and not for entertainment.. Ya um it was education.;)

Well off I go to get some grain products that at one time were providing shelter to cute little rodent families on the field until that big tractor came along.:p :sad: :shrug: :yell:

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 05:18 PM
And speaking of butchers or people working in slaughterhouses you'd have to either be made of steel or not care but cutting up animals is just not something I think most people can do.

Well most people can reap the benefits of what the slaughterhouses do without so much as thinking about the animal that died, so who is the bad guy? Slaughterhouses are catering to the customers, meat eaters pay them to kill animals for food.

If you're sitting there eating meat you're distancing yourself from the animal a lot more than someone who is butchering the meat or skinning the animal and everything. That person KNOWS it's an animal, it doesn't mean they get some sick pleasure out of it, most don't. As you said, most people wouldn't choose to work in a slaughterhouse, most people do it because they have to work and make money, or sometimes it's just what their family has always done. Slaughterhouses smell bad, they reak of blood and fecal matter, it's a nasty job, and if you eat meat I think it's hypocritical to criticize those people for putting food on your table.
I'm not saying no butchers or whatnot enjoy their job, because many do, but it's usually because they're good at their job, not because they get some sick pleasure out of killing or cutting up dead animals.

Golden Girls
November 13th, 2006, 05:33 PM
I used to but haven't eaten meat since being educted :p regarding factory farming. It'll be 3 years and although I still haven't found a medium yet to replace some dairy products I will in time.

My comment wasn't really about butcher's get sick pleasure just one would need to have a certain mentality is all.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 05:37 PM
That doesn't make sense because if you can save up plenty then you are doing okay (maybe not great) but okay. Poor people or the not well off can't save up any money, they can't even go into debt because they don't have credit.

How does budgeting money to make a necessary purchase make you well off? If someone is buying food from the store they're having to budget that money no matter how much they make. If someone is using deer meat to feed themselves they're having to budget money for the tag and everything, I don't get what you're saying.

So he doesn't hunt for the shooting/killing part but he enjoys it? Do you think he would go if he didn't enjoy the shooting?

Yeah, I think he would still go. If he couldn't go I would be out doing it, and I don't in ANY way enjoy killing something. It's not fair to share in everyone elses deer meat and not share any of your own. For those of you that don't eat wild meat that's not a problem, but I do.
My b/f enjoys being able to shoot and bring home his own food, he doesn't enjoy having to kill, that's not what he's out there for. I'm not saying no hunters are, but we personally don't enjoy death, we get deer to feed ourselves and share with everyone else.

If I'm fileting a chicken from the store, or cutting up beef to make stew, what is the difference between that and cutting up a whole deer? No matter what I know it was an animal, the only difference with grocery meat is that I don't have to see where it came from, but I still KNOW. I don't get sick enjoyment out of seeing something dead, but I definately like the taste of the meat like any meat eater does :shrug: .
Butchering deer isn't exactly a fun job, it's tedious and takes several hours depending on the size. It's nice to know that YOU were the one who put the work into it, you know where it came from, and it makes it more enjoyable when you have the final benefit of consuming the deer.
This all may seem gross to some of you, but just because you don't have to see this happening at your slaughterhouse before you eat the meat doesn't make it better.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 05:40 PM
My comment wasn't really about butcher's get sick pleasure just one would need to have a certain mentality is all.

I would agree with that,though there are plenty of people who work in slaughterhouses yet don't eat meat because it's pretty gruesome, I just think that's interesting. My grandmother didn't eat pork for a long time after working in a processing plant.
Maybe if more people had to slaughter their own meat they would be eating veggies instead :shrug: . Personally I'm not grossed out by cutting up meat like many people are, it's just a task I have to do if I want to eat it.

If I don't do it myself someone else had to put the work into it before I could eat it, so I don't see much of a difference.

coppperbelle
November 13th, 2006, 06:00 PM
Not sure if this guy is a hunter but you guys are going to love this one.

www.pressrepublican.com

This guy lives a few miles from me in the country. I saw the suspect deer on Saturday and noticed how beautiful he was.

Maya
November 13th, 2006, 07:05 PM
That doesn't make sense because if you can save up plenty then you are doing okay (maybe not great) but okay. Poor people or the not well off can't save up any money, they can't even go into debt because they don't have credit.

How does budgeting money to make a necessary purchase make you well off? If someone is buying food from the store they're having to budget that money no matter how much they make. If someone is using deer meat to feed themselves they're having to budget money for the tag and everything, I don't get what you're saying.



I said "doing okay" if you can save money, not "well off". You are very lucky that you don't understand what I'm saying. People who do not have money cannot budget. If you go to the store and you were only able to purchase a few vegetables and half dozen eggs for the week but couldn't afford to even buy meat than you don't have money to budget or save. I'm just pointing out that the argument that people hunt because it's cheaper or saves money is weak. You'd have to have insurance, gas money, guns, licence, good clothing energy time, doesn't sound like you'd really have a need to go hunting unless it was for the activity itself.:shrug:

2beagleboys
November 13th, 2006, 07:48 PM
What 2Beagleboys,told us,makes me sad for those two little adorable pups,I've seen enough of what happens to these dogs if they do not perform and where they end up Not all hunters love their dogs,most are penned outside,until one day when they are of no use and will have the same fate as the deer or whatever the owner hunted.....

To Chico2... your insinuation about my pups couldnt be more wrong..:sad:
Oh yes I hunt and look forward to it each year, and I own 2 beagle pups.. putting 2 and 2 together I can see why you think that..but you are wrong..

Ive seen hunters run with packs for yrs.. and seen many lost to the hunter because they are either to young or training was of thier own doing..its very sad..the hunter cant keep up..its as simple as that..or they dont come back to the call or signal..

I pondered over a few breeds of dogs before deciding on the beagle, it was appropriate for me and my family..Ive had small and larger dogs..the choice was right..I do apoloigize for some things said.

Id like to give my comment on the topic at hand(first post) to bad there wasnt more said about this hunt..for I see the 70 yr old man to propably not be the hunter he used to be..he eyes would not be what they used to be..and the one who took the shot..needs to get his eyes checked too..for maybe he was as old as the man shot..:shrug: whos knows...I feel bad for the families..
I would like to know if this was private land or crown land..who was allowed to be there..?? the man dead or the shooter?..or both..I dont hunt crown land for those reasons alone..to many hunters..and some not responsible enough to be there..the man taking the shot should have seen orange it is the LAW here and some just dont wear it..pitty for them.. was he?
Yes plain stupid for the shooter to take a shot that MIGHT get him a deer..Most avid hunters will only take a shot if they know he is going to go down..Bow hunters.. mainly..Ive never missed a deer..and have let many go if the shot is not there..that is the challange of the hunt and the respect we give the animals..
Do I think about the life of the deer I just took..yes I DO.. I give him all the credit he deserves.. how lovely he is and still is..Ive only one trophy on my wall..Ive shot many deer but only one buck hangs here.. the rest go for donation and to family
hope you all dont run me down because of what I have said..

Frenchy
November 13th, 2006, 07:51 PM
You guys posted 2 pages in a half since last time I was here :yell: I did read all the posts, and I have to tell you, except for one person (who has left for another forum :thumbs up ) I got to tell you , you are all being pretty civilized :thumbs up :grouphug: I tought this was going to get ugly but no. I understand both sides (one a bit less than the other :p ) I think we are the first one to blame. Surconsommation (sorry don't know that word in english) over consumption ? The slaughter houses, hunting. Over population by these animals are not true ,they just don't have enough space anymore. We are building and building over their natural habitat.... does that make sense? ( that's why I don't usually get involve in threads like this, It's hard for me to translate what's on my mind :shrug: ) :yell: And the fact that I hate guns :mad:

Frenchy
November 13th, 2006, 07:52 PM
Oups,I was wrong on one point....

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 08:06 PM
You'd have to have insurance, gas money, guns, licence, good clothing energy time, doesn't sound like you'd really have a need to go hunting unless it was for the activity itself.

You're assuming everyone that hunts spends the same amount of money on everything.

Gas money - what makes you think everyone drives miles and miles to go hunt? Some people do, and those people aren't saving any money, but I'm talking about myself and the people I know.

Guns - Wow, someone must really be an idiot if they have to buy a gun to go hunting every year. Guns are usually a one time purchase, and are many times passed down between people. Sometimes families get money together just to buy a rifle for a child to use later when he's old enough to hunt.
Also, an ok gun to go hunting around here doesn't necessarily cost that much compared to it's use.

Good clothing - How many people buy coveralls every single year. Here you don't even necessarily need anything but your normal clothes because it's not always cold. You need an orange vest and hat, which oftentimes you can get cheap or free, and that's not an everytime purchase if you don't have much money. Up there where it gets really really cold it may be necessary to put a lot of money into hunting, but not here.

energy time - That's relative.

doesn't sound like you'd really have a need to go hunting unless it was for the activity itself - I'd be happy to actually add up all the costs of us hunting and compare it to the price of beef or chicken at the store, it's lower for us and the people that hunt like we do.

I said "doing okay" if you can save money, not "well off".

Well someone who spends the same amount of money to hunt as we do is going to have a lot less money if they buy the same amount of meat at the store. Like I said, I can add it up for you if you want. We already figured up what it costs to hunt vs what it costs to get the same amount of meat at the store.
Just because you're spending less on each purchase of meat at the store doesn't mean you're spending less overall. The cost of food is also different depending on what region you live in so that will effect how much cheaper or more expensive it is to butcher up a deer instead.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 08:16 PM
Over population by these animals are not true ,they just don't have enough space anymore. We are building and building over their natural habitat.... does that make sense?

Well, raising livestock, grain, and veggies for us to eat doesn't give them back any habitat, so what do you propose?

Humans overbreed, overconsume, overbuild, etc., I don't think anyone is debating that.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 13th, 2006, 08:47 PM
In any case you guys, I enjoy arguing, but I think I quit until tomorrow.:p

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 09:06 PM
MyBird... respectfully :pray: i must say that absolutely *nothing* you have said, argued, and counter-pointed today has changed my views on hunting one iota :shrug: i have always hated the entire concept and always will - and I am proud of that. now my two brothers live in a completely opposite world (yes i have hunters in my family and we just don't "go there" :mad: ) so you can imagine i've seen and heard all of this before... but still. I just can't endorse hunting in any way, shape or form... sorry. :o

erykah1310
November 13th, 2006, 09:08 PM
Is it really just to save money, eat ethical meat, save the environment etc. How would it save money if you factor in time and other costs involved, you'd have to be doing okay to afford to go hunting in the first place. :confused:

Not necessarily, for us here, hunting is waking up early in the morning and heading into our back yard...
No real expenses there, just the licence, and butcher fee's. For a freezer full of food its very reasonable.
Personally I dont go hunting... why??? because I know I would break into hysterics when the animal was shot. :shrug: Yes , I enjoy the burger but dont want to see the cow die! So many of us are like this.

I dont expect anyone to change their opinions about hunting, either you are alright with it or your not.. thats it.

And Yes techno, majority of the hunters around here save the bones and organs for thier dogs. Or atleast give it to someone who has dogs.

Dont get me wrong, we have our fair share of poachers around here to but honestly there is nothing more insulting to a "real" and ethical hunter than a poacher, and most of the "good" hunters wouldnt think twice about reporting a poacher. Our neighbour when i was a kid was accused of poaching, I came home from school to 4 OPP cruisers and 2 MNR trucks ( with dogs) parked infront of my house. I was terrified that something horrible had happened to my dad. They removed the neighbours guns, meat, ammo and truck.. He was being charged!!! However he hadnt poached and the whole ordeal was sorted out in a few weeks. His meat was gone forever but he regained his rights to hunt. Had he actually have poached he was facing jail time!
It is taken REALLY serious.

I dont think of hunting as a "sport" for if one has that mentality only about it then yes there is only a " thrill " behind the kill.
Where as ethical hunters also get a " thrill" but dont only go out to seek it. If they shoot then they are thrilled but if they dont... better luck next year!

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 09:12 PM
and let's not even TALK about those organized, fixed "hunts"... rich people paying to chase a drugged bear in a rigged environment, accompanied by dogs and a troup of aides with hi-tech weapons, hunting that poor animal down into terrorized exhaustion, in which a bullet to the head is actually a relief to the whole ordeal - that is not only SICK and ILLEGAL but it happens in our own country... :eek: :mad: :sad:

meb999
November 13th, 2006, 09:17 PM
Well guys,nothing anybody says will make me change my mind about hunting but that's ok,no hard feelings..


That's what I like about you Chico....you're very sweet, even when you're arguing your point of view :thumbs up

erykah1310
November 13th, 2006, 09:24 PM
and let's not even TALK about those organized, fixed "hunts"... rich people paying to chase a drugged bear in a rigged environment, accompanied by dogs and a troup of aides with hi-tech weapons, hunting that poor animal down into terrorized exhaustion, in which a bullet to the head is actually a relief to the whole ordeal - that is not only SICK and ILLEGAL but it happens in our own country... :eek: :mad: :sad:

I whole heartedly agree with you there TD... that is sick!
That is NOT hunting!

Maya
November 13th, 2006, 09:38 PM
energy time - That's relative.

Everything is relative.:p

You're assuming everyone that hunts spends the same amount of money on everything. No I hadn't thought about the different amounts people spend. I know that I've not been able to afford a car or enough food to stay healthy(literally), so I do see some level of wealth needed before you are able to go hunting e.g. able to eat regularly at least. It wouldn't be possible for me to purchase meat from the store on a regular basis or go hunting and if I was able to I don't think I could bring myself to hurt anything directly. I am guilty enough because I prepare meat for my b/f sometimes.:(
Not necessarily, for us here, hunting is waking up early in the morning and heading into our back yard...
No real expenses there, just the licence, and butcher fee's. For a freezer full of food its very reasonable
Fair enough and relative, people with low incomes rarely have big freezer's unfortunatley. Part of the problem with a very low income is that you don't have enough money to purchase anything in bulk and end up spending more on certain things in the long run.

I think in the end it really comes down to the spiritual and ethical aspect more than anything else.

Maya
November 13th, 2006, 09:45 PM
drugged bear in a rigged environmentThat is truly awful.:sad: I didn't know about that.

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 09:49 PM
and let's not even TALK about those organized, fixed "hunts"... Remember the kids' book "Danny Champion of the World"? Love that book. They steal all the pheasants from this fenced in area where rich people go to "hunt"... :cloud9:

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 09:56 PM
Remember the kids' book "Danny Champion of the World"?

never heard of that book.. but it sounds lovely... :o

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 10:17 PM
It is. It's by Roald Dahl (same guy who wrote Charlie and the Chocolate factory, only this one's not fantastical). The father and son give drugged raisins to the pheasants, and they go up into the trees to sleep and as they pass out and fall out of the trees, they collect them all and set them free when they wake up. :thumbs up

Bushfire2000
November 13th, 2006, 10:48 PM
I'm a Johnny come latlly to this topic. But for what it's worth here are my thoughts.

1. I don't allow deer hunting on my land.
The reason: my brother in law was almost shot by a hunter. My brother in law was carrying "chop" pails across the corral(sp) and had to hit the dirt because someone shot (probably towards the rise of a hill) and just missed him.

2. I know many people who hunt and as far as I can tell all of them take due care and attention. Using all the parts of the animals.

3. Slightly off topic but relevent(sp) to the theme as a farmer I'd like everyone to know that most cattle are very well kept and fed, etc. because a sick or mistreated animal wont get a good price at market.(sad but true)

And here's somthing I've always wondered about: for those who would like us to stop raising and eating cattle. What do you think would happen to the cows if they were not eaten?

Their reason for being is to provide food for humans, without this purpose they would not be at all. They would not be let lose to roam freely.

Sorry about the farming thing when we are talking about Hunting but I couldn't help puting in a word in my defence.

There are always going to be good and bad in all things.
There are bad farmers who treat their animals cruely.
And there are hunters who for example when denied hunting permision, cut fence lines, open gates letting farm animals lose, cut ropes holding dugout pumps (depriving the farm house it's water supply). All of which I've had first hand experience with.

t.pettet
November 13th, 2006, 11:11 PM
The hunters around here treat the season more like a 'red-neck' macho drunken get-together than a necessity to fill the freezer. They get all fired up with their baying hounds, cases of beer, expensive rifles and the latest tracking devices, including 3 and 4 wheelers. It is a far cry from a lone hunter living in the wilderness waiting for hours in the bush to nab one deer to put on his family's table. These goofs ride around with the slaughtered creatures hanging out of their pick-ups making sure everyone sees how brave and skilled they are. It reminds me of little boys comparing sizes of their private parts. I detest the whole concept and double the feed rations I put out daily for the deer that hang around my property during the hunting season just so they'll be more inclined to stay within the safe confines of this area. Have seen the yahoos stopping to watch the deer on my property so I have posted no hunting signs all over. The majority of them know that if their dog's wander on here they're usually never seen again and many have show open hostility for my animal rights views. After having witnessed these beautiful, graceful creatures grazing or watching their fawns playing or all settling down for afternoon naps I cannot fathom how anyone could not feel some remorse over killing them.

coppperbelle
November 14th, 2006, 06:52 AM
Feeding of wild deer is prohibited in New York state. I hear that there are even helicopters that fly over looking for piles of carrots left by hunters to lure deer to their property.
I put up posted signs to keep hunters off my land and my dogs wear orange vests from September to December when they are outside. When I take walks I talk to the deer and tell them they will be safe on my land.
Although I am not a fan of hunting I do understand why people hunt and respect their right to do so.


Nobody commented on my article but a neighbor of mine in the country was killed on Sunday by one of his deer. Apparently he kept the deer to train beagles. I have passed many times and wondered why he kept them. He entered the deer pen on Sunday morning and was attacked by his buck. He later died in the hospital.

chico2
November 14th, 2006, 07:55 AM
Copperbelle,I did not comment on the article,don't really know how I feel about it,or enough about the victim.
I don't like to see anybody die,but in this case maybe karma kicked in,deer are wild animals and like with any other wild animal kept in captivity,this kind of thing can happen.

2Beagleboys,If I was wrong about your 2 pups,I apologize.

TPettet,your view of most hunters,unfortunately mirrors mine:yell:
The half a dozen or so,that we know,are certainly not in need of meat for their families.It's macho male bonding and partytime:evil:

Pike
November 14th, 2006, 08:15 AM
This thread has run it's course, and will now be closed.