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Run-away Hounds

TheRescuer
November 3rd, 2006, 06:08 PM
I need some serious help. I have two Redbone Coonhounds and one of them, my male Porter thinks its great to slip his colar and run away from you and stay away for as long as possible. I know I need to get a harness so I don't need that suggestion. I need to know how to solve the problem of him running away. I wouldn't have a problem with him off leash if I knew he wouldn't make me go on a 3 hr. chase and would come willingly when called. Porter seems to completely forget his nameand when caught he doesn't acknowledge that I'm even his owner, nor does he acknowledge his sister Nadia. He's the most cuddly loving boy in the world when he's here at home but I've found myself calling him more names than telling him he's the most wonderful dog in the world, while he's at large. His sister gets pretty angry with him as well when he runs away as she is quite controling of him. Perhaps thats why he tries to run away!? Ha!
Anyway, someone please help me train my hound. It is so scarey to think that we could actually lose him in the wild yonder on one of his hunts after he's escaped. You sure do go thru' a wide range of emotions when your dog is running at large and you have no control over him. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me!!
Thanks,
TheRescuer:pawprint:

MyBirdIsEvil
November 3rd, 2006, 06:24 PM
Redbones really shouldn't be allowed off leash.
If he's getting out of his collar and running away, then I don't know what to tell you, since he's a hound as soon as he gets a scent he's likely to be gone.

I live in a fairly rural area, and there's several people that have redbone coonhounds, and actually use them for hunting. They're not bred to excel in obedience like many other breeds, they're bred to be able to track raccoons for significant distances and stay on the scent until it's treed. When a redbone gets a scent chances are they won't even hear you calling.
If it's teaching them to hunt you want to do they catch on really quick, if it's teaching them to come or not pull on leash or those kind of commands you need to seek a professional trainer that knows about hounds.

When is he slipping his collar anyway? Is he tied up outside or are you holding the leash at the time? If he's outside unsupervised you need a fenced in yard, otherwise he's going to keep doing it.
If he's doing it while on leash you could try a martingale collar, which will tighten enough to keep him from slipping out but not enough to choke him. You can't however leave him tied in one.

Lissa
November 4th, 2006, 12:32 AM
Ahh yes, the wondering hounds. I have an American Foxhound who is reliable off-leash thanks to months of training (and learning to pick my battles!).

When your dog slips his collar, he is self-rewarding and getting exactly what he wants. Your first step is stop him from slipping the collar - the more he gets away with it, the more he'll do it! Your next step is to choose a recall word, preferably an uncommon word (I know someone who uses "cuddles":p) and treat him like a puppy who's never experienced recall before. You must start in a boring place (where he is not distracted), you can either leave him off-leash or on a 6ft leash - say your recall word - he is probably going to ignore you so you either go and get him and bring him to where you called from or reel him in if he's on-leash. Praise and reward (a reward is anything your dog values). You need to work on distance, distration and diversity - but only work on a one at a time - and when you first start working on one, make sure you make it easier (ex: your dog is reliable off-leash indoors from any distance, so you decide he's ready for recall training in the backyard, you MUST make it easier for your dog and go back to the 6ft leash, praise and reward because you've just increased the distraction and difficulty of the exercise!!) If your committed it won't take long for your dog to be 100% indoors - outdoors is the problem because of the breed. You may never get 100% recall with a hound, especially now that he has learned how easy and fun it is to self-reward. But I would try nonetheless.
Some hound/terrier owners will use an animal hide to motivate their dogs instead of food because hunters will find that very high value.

Is there anywhere your dog can be let off-leash in a small, fenced in area? I firmly believe giving your dog safe opportunities to be off-leash and tire himself out is key to good recall. I also think that mental stimuation plays a huge roll as well. Most hounds love trick training because they are hams and get lots of rewards for learning new tricks - this improves your bond and will naturally make your hound more attentive.

Lastly, do NOT call your dog when you know he's going to ignore you - it accomplishes nothing except teaching your dog that he doesn't have to listen to you! Never scold him when he comes back to you - even when you catch him, most dogs will not understand why you are mad so punishment is often useless. If my dog ignored "come" as a youngster, I always told myself that it was my fault - I either skipped a step or wasn't honest about his ability to recall around distractions. It's never the dogs fault (well almost never:D)!

GOOD LUCK!!! I'd love to see pictures of your hounds! :)

OntarioGreys
November 5th, 2006, 07:09 PM
Chasng after him will only provide more reward and he will make a game of it.

Sometime better to run away from him acting all silly and loud, it will have him wondering what the heck is going on and curiousity will have him following you but it will only work a couple of time before he catches on

Bushfire2000
November 5th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Chasng after him will only provide more reward and he will make a game of it.

Sometime better to run away from him acting all silly and loud, it will have him wondering what the heck is going on and curiousity will have him following you but it will only work a couple of time before he catches on

My eye was caught by your comment. I've been known to run the other way calling "Kitty, kitty, kitty", hey sometimes it works. Last resort ony, of course in case someone's watching.

hazelrunpack
November 5th, 2006, 09:16 PM
Never scold him when he comes back to you - even when you catch him, most dogs will not understand why you are mad so punishment is often useless.

Hey Lissa--I'm curious. If you have to go catch a dog when she's ignoring the recall command, do you praise her once you've got her? Or do you ignore her and just bring her in?

Lissa
November 6th, 2006, 08:07 AM
Hey Lissa--I'm curious. If you have to go catch a dog when she's ignoring the recall command, do you praise her once you've got her? Or do you ignore her and just bring her in?

That's an excellent question and I truly believe that it depends on your dog and the situation. With an over-stimulated or nervous dog, I do not believe scolding when you catch them works because they are either too distracted/hyper to notice or too fearful.
My friend's standard poodle doesn't hear anything when he sees another dog so even if she is quick enough to catch him, he only knows that his fun ended so that's all the more reason to run away or ignore Mum - scolding him on top of that is useless because he only sees the dog.

If you work and train with your dog, I believe that you can catch them and be like "what the heck are you doing" and lead them back to where you called from, then praise. I think it should only be done with a dog that has been well-trained and knows all about recall and has been proofed around whatever has made him ignore you (otherwise its unfair and our fault for allowing them to be off-leash)

A while ago, Dodger took off after a squirrel that I didn't "approve" of (sounds odd but if he wants to chase a squirrel I have to give the okay first). So instead of calling him to me after the fact, I went after him (he of course new I was out to catch him and stopped in his tracks) - right there I knew I couldn't be too harsh so I put him in a down-stay and we watched the squirrels for a minute (showing him what he could have had if he listened) and continued on our walk (on-leash!). The next day when he was off-leash, his response to commands was immediate. Some dogs get it and some don't. If I tried this would the Std. Poodle it would make no difference to him because he isn't on the same level (but his recall issues are lack of training, lack of socialization and boredom, so not his fault!).

hazelrunpack
November 6th, 2006, 08:13 AM
Some dogs get it and some don't. If I tried this would the Std. Poodle it would make no difference to him because he isn't on the same level (but his recall issues are lack of training, lack of socialization and boredom, so not his fault!).

Thanks, Lissa! This is our problem with Macie, too... So how do you handle it with the Std Poodle?

Lissa
November 6th, 2006, 08:28 AM
If I had my way, the Std Poodle (Kona) would not be off-leash around other dogs, his exercise would be upped and so would his mental training and he would be trained to recall to a different word (come has no meaning since it was so rarely enforced!).
I'd want to do plenty of meet and greets on-leash so he learns that fun can still happen on-leash. I'd also set him up - for instance have a well-trained dog over and let them loose in the backyard. I call Kona, he ignores, the other dog is called and removed from the situation and Kona is either left to his own devices and/or work on commands for a few minutes. I'd do that a 2-4 times per session until he was coming immediately (his favorite frisbee would be the reward).
The problem with Kona is that his been kept away from other dogs for so long because he has zero recall around them - so not only does he get crazy excited when he sees another dog but he is now so frustrated that he can't play with them so he's started to growl/bark/lunge at other dogs. He needs both "controlled" exposure to them (where you set him up) and time to play with them to exhaustion SAFELY (and when you don't call him at all) - when its time to go the other dog is called away or you catch him and reward.

I will be watching a DVD called Really Reliable Recall by Leslie Nelson to proof Dodger's recall even more - I will PM you any tips from that since its so expensive to order (shipping/duties is crazy!)...

we3beagles
November 6th, 2006, 09:55 AM
I agree with MyBirdIsEvil. Most of the hound group should not be allowed off leash. I have only met 2 reliable off leash beagles in all my time in rescue and they had gone through years of obedience training. They absolutely cannot hear you when they catch the scent and will ignore you no matter what. Their nose rules all.

hazelrunpack
November 6th, 2006, 10:51 AM
I will be watching a DVD called Really Reliable Recall by Leslie Nelson to proof Dodger's recall even more - I will PM you any tips from that since its so expensive to order (shipping/duties is crazy!)...

Thanks, Lissa! This gives me some more ideas! :thumbs up (sorry about the thread-jacking, TheRescuer!)