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Moving Charley off the bed...

PetFriendly
November 2nd, 2006, 04:12 PM
Hi All

I need your opinions on something. By my own fault, the dog now thinks he is supposed to sleep on the bed... He can't actually jump up on the bed without help, and needs to be lifted. (hence, my fault) I'm thinking this whole sleeping in the bed habit has to go. But he whines if I don't pick him up. So, I need your help with that. My two choices are,
1. Scold him for whining and leave him on the floor
or
2. Ignore the whining and leave him on the floor

(he has a bed and a comfy crate to sleep in so its not like he's uncomfortable or anything). I'm leaning towards option 2 because past experience has showed me that even negative attention will encourage him.

Your thoughts are welcome!

MyBirdIsEvil
November 2nd, 2006, 04:29 PM
Out of curiosity, why don't you want him sleeping in bed anymore?

In answer to your question, I wouldn't scold him for whining, he's not going to know what he's being scolded for. You're the one who caused the behavior by picking him up and putting him in bed when he whines, so punishing him by scolding would be completely unfair.
All you can do is ignore him while he's whining until he realizes it's not going to get him anywhere. When he whines and wants up on the bed you could also send him to his own crate and bed to lay down.
It may go quicker if you put a couple treats in his crate when he's not looking, and then when he whines to get in your bed and you send him to his crate he'll discover the treats, which will make it easier to send him to his crate when you ask.

PetFriendly
November 3rd, 2006, 06:15 AM
Out of curiosity, why don't you want him sleeping in bed anymore?

...

It may go quicker if you put a couple treats in his crate when he's not looking, and then when he whines to get in your bed and you send him to his crate he'll discover the treats, which will make it easier to send him to his crate when you ask.

Because its that time of year when the little white dog comes in a nice shade of grey when we've been outside. Soon, there will be snowballs along with the mess... So he's not banished forever, I just need to get him used to not always being allowed up like he has been all summer.

Good idea with the treats! He goes into his crate on request (which is in my bedroom), but he won't stay in long.

PetFriendly
November 3rd, 2006, 06:17 AM
In answer to your question, I wouldn't scold him for whining, he's not going to know what he's being scolded for. You're the one who caused the behavior by picking him up and putting him in bed when he whines, so punishing him by scolding would be completely unfair.


Whining is a behaviour he knows is not ok. And he doesn't get to come up if he whines, he has to ask nicely by siting quietly. Its when I don't pick him up he whines (so I distract him, make him do some commands, then he asks and I pick him up).

Lissa
November 3rd, 2006, 12:05 PM
Because its that time of year when the little white dog comes in a nice shade of grey when we've been outside. Soon, there will be snowballs along with the mess... So he's not banished forever, I just need to get him used to not always being allowed up like he has been all summer.

Why can't he just be cleaned? Dog's don't generalize well so he is not going to understand why he is or isn't allowed up. I think its too confusing for him.

Teaching him "enough" and "on your bed" should work - he needs to learn that those aren't negotiable commands. I would give the "go to your bed" command before he starts whining so he knows what's expected of him - then use "enough" or any other negative reinforcer word if he starts whining (you have to teach them first if he doesn't know them or possible reteach them with a different command if he doesn't know them but ignores them!). HOWEVER, like you say, some dogs respond better to being totally ignored - its just not something that I would be willing to put up with until it extinguishes itself:redface:

Prin
November 3rd, 2006, 01:46 PM
I use "floor" when I don't want my beasties to come up. Sometimes it's just not convenient, so they ask and I say "floor" and they go lie down somewhere else. With a big dog, it's easier I think because they hop up anyway, and then you put them back on the floor while saying 'floor'. Don't know how you'd do it with a little dog who can't get up on its own..:o

PetFriendly
November 3rd, 2006, 04:41 PM
For all other furniture Charley knows "stay off" so that will work.

Lissa: I see you're point about confusing him, but he's always had to ask to come up and other than the bed, I don't always say yes so he knows its my decision. I will be consistent for the time being and keep him on the floor though just to make sure.

In anticipation of a 1/2 hour of whining, I've choosen to implement this plan tonight so as to be able to sleep in in the morning!

joeysmama
November 3rd, 2006, 05:14 PM
We've decided to be grateful that Cooper allows US to sleep in his big bed.;) I'm kidding (a little).

But my bedspread is a deep maroon and I just realized that if I ever got light colored bedclothes I wouldn't want him up on the bed right after a walk, and things like that. So I should probably begin training him that he can't come up all the time. I'll watch and see how you do with this.

MyBirdIsEvil
November 3rd, 2006, 05:54 PM
Whining is a behaviour he knows is not ok. And he doesn't get to come up if he whines,he has to ask nicely by siting quietly.Its when I don't pick him up he whines (so I distract him, make him do some commands, then he asks and I pick him up).

The thing is that's still teaching him that he gets on the bed when he wants. He shouldn't be asking you, YOU should be asking him, not giving permission when he's asking.
He's there, looking at you, waiting to get on the bed when you tell him to do some commands and then let him get up. He's still getting on the bed when HE wants to.
Whenever you choose to let him on the bed, you could wait until he's laying calmly in his crate not even paying attention to you. Call him over, tell him to sit and lay down and then tell him to get on the bed. That way he's not even thinking about getting on the bed when you decide to call him over.
Even looking at you as if he wants up there is a manipulative gesture, even if he's following all of your commands.

In any case, the whining thing may never completely stop. Walnut whines about all kinds of stuff even though she never gets anywhere by doing it, lol. Some dogs are just whiney.

PetFriendly
November 4th, 2006, 08:10 PM
Ok, so I remembered something... My boyfriend always says good-night to his cat. And when I sleep over I also say good-night to Charley and he'll either go into the crate he has there or goes and sleeps under the bed. D'uh, I can't believe I had forgotten about that, talk about trainer error!
Last night, we went for a longer walk than usual (to get him good and tired), and kept going out for the last time really low key (to avoid him knowing that this was the part of the day he gets lifted into bed) . When I got into bed, I said good-night to him and rolled over so he couldn't see my face. He only whined a bit, but kept all 4 feet on the floor. I guess he figured out he wasn't coming up and went into his crate.
I'm not sure if its the command or exaustion, but on the just in case, we did the same today, big long walk to tucker him out and I'll be going to bed quickly again (good thing I watch TV in the living room at night and not my bed)

Angies Man
November 5th, 2006, 07:20 PM
I like the idea of putting a couple of treats in his crate. (in addition to what you're already doing.) To kinda kill the bitter taste of defeat. . .

PetFriendly
November 5th, 2006, 07:39 PM
Last night I had to resort to ignoring the whine... On the up side, it only lasted 20 minutes, even though I had given the 'good night' command and turned my back to him right away. I do beleive the treats in the crate were discovered around 2 am :D ( he slept under the bed for the first part of the night).