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My dog has killed 3 cats

kimC1
October 31st, 2006, 08:37 PM
We have a Staffordshire Bull Terrior/Red Nose Pitbull mix, he was three years old last January. This dog has killed 3 cats. I am at a loss as to why.. He was raised around cats. The last cat he killed, he would not even approach if we near. Due to the fact he had previously killed 2 cats, we were very carefull when ever the cat and dog were near to each other. I always commanded him to be nice and to stay away from the cat. In fact we have two Jack Russell's and he is submissive towards the male. We are responsible pet owners and have never had a dog behave this way. Anyways, I was wondering if we were to have him neutered would this change his behavior?? Thank you!! Kim

BMDLuver
October 31st, 2006, 08:41 PM
I'm sorry, this may sound harsh but why the heck would you have a cat after he killed the first one.. do not, I repeat do not, get another cat. This dog will always kill cats and he may decide eventually to do the Jack Russell in as well. I would suggest when you are not home to not leave them together unattended. This dog is not safe to be around other animals so please don't take the chance. He may be very sweet and lovely but the next animal he kills may not be yours and then that will be his demise as most pet owners would insist a dog that has a history of killing cats to be put down. Please don't put him in that position.

erykah1310
October 31st, 2006, 09:16 PM
I agree with BMD. DO not even think of allowing him near another cat.

Also , yes , get him neutered! It probly wont help with his "history" but it will help him with many other things later in life.

coppperbelle
October 31st, 2006, 09:19 PM
Were these your pet cats?
Neutering will not change this behavior but I would recommend it anyways. Please keep your Jack Russels separate from this dog when you are not around and even when you are you will have to be very vigilant.

LM1313
November 1st, 2006, 02:14 PM
He's killing them because it's an enjoyable activity for him. Dogs are amoral, so he doesn't think of it as being wrong. He thinks, "Man, this is way better than a squeaky toy . . . it tries to run away and fight back and it's exciting as heck!" I strongly recommend that you never leave this dog unsupervised around the Jack Russell terriers and, needless to say, never around a cat either.

BTW, are you certain it was the pittie who killed the cats and not one or both of the Jack Russells? Terriers can also be aggressive towards other animals . . . They were bred to hunt "vermin" like rats, etc. Don't let their size fool you, a terrier CAN kill a cat. Unless you're 100% sure, I wouldn't leave the Jack Russells around cats unattended either.

chico2
November 1st, 2006, 05:14 PM
I agree LM1313,I knew of a lady who had 2 cats and a JRT,everybody seemed to live together in harmony.
Then one day the lady came home from work and found a bloodbath,her JRT had killed both cats...

Prin
November 1st, 2006, 05:16 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek: Poor woman! :eek: My dad's jack gets along with cats great- better than dogs- but he's meant to live alone. They have crazy high prey drives.:shrug:

bmerc
November 1st, 2006, 07:21 PM
Unfortunately Pit Bulls were bred to fight to the death, a dispicable fact which says a lot about humans. It is in their genes, an instinct.The best fighters with the strongest instincts were the ones often bred. Many Pits cannot resist the instinct...not all...but some. That's why I'm in agreement with muzzling in public, and responsible Pit Bull ownership...not breed-bans. I've heard way too many stories of Pits attacking smaller animals on the street, to the horror of the victims owners, and the courts do judge the attacker a threat to the community and they are euthanized. They can turn quickly on other animals, even if they were previously fine, I agree that the Jack Russell should be separated when unsupervised. I would much rather err on the side of caution then regret being too trusting. And now that there is a pattern of behaviour involving cats.....never let your dog get near another. As Dr. Phil says the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.:)

Prin
November 1st, 2006, 07:30 PM
But pitties were bred to fight dogs their own size to the death. Not cats.;) (Nor humans)

kimC1
November 1st, 2006, 07:48 PM
The first cat Zeus killed was a long time pet. This cat was an outside cat and he was raised with this cat. Then we had a couple of stray young cats decide to stay with us. We knew there was a possibility that he may kill again so we really tried hard to keep him away from the cats. We have a fenced in yard. This last cat "Phyllis" that was a stray has been with us for about 3 years. We had her spayed and she was our pet. I think she actually knew to stay away from Zeus. She did not like Zeus. She would only let Zeus near her when my husband and I were outside. My heart is broken over this... I have always had cats and never had an animal that killed another animal. I am not a bad person. There is no way that I would get another cat as long as we have Zeus... We have thought about putting the dog down. But being the responsible pet owner, we believe that this is our problem and putting the dog down is wrong and there is no way that I would give him to someone else. Our house has been broken into 4 times. When Zeus killed the first cat, we took him back to the breeder. We were broke into again 2 weeks after we got rid of them. My husband called the breeder back and got the dog back. Thanks for your advice... that's why I posted.

jesse's mommy
November 1st, 2006, 08:32 PM
Unfortunately Pit Bulls were bred to fight to the death, a dispicable fact which says a lot about humans. It is in their genes, an instinct.The best fighters with the strongest instincts were the ones often bred. Many Pits cannot resist the instinct...not all...but some. That's why I'm in agreement with muzzling in public, and responsible Pit Bull ownership...not breed-bans. I've heard way too many stories of Pits attacking smaller animals on the street, to the horror of the victims owners, and the courts do judge the attacker a threat to the community and they are euthanized. They can turn quickly on other animals, even if they were previously fine, I agree that the Jack Russell should be separated when unsupervised. I would much rather err on the side of caution then regret being too trusting. And now that there is a pattern of behaviour involving cats.....never let your dog get near another. As Dr. Phil says the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.:)

Not another one....:sad:

chico2
November 2nd, 2006, 07:47 AM
KimC1,nobody says you are a bad person.I really have no answers for you,but I know would any dog kill my 3 cats,whom I love very much,I doubt I would be able to keep him.
In your case,your dog will kill more cats,since you say there are strays hanging around.
I don't think the fact he is a Pitbull has much to do with it,other breeds with high preydrive have been known to kill smaller animals:sad:

Dukieboy
November 2nd, 2006, 10:01 AM
Your dogs only purpose is for protection?

technodoll
November 2nd, 2006, 11:03 AM
so if you have a cat that lives well with your pet bunny or hamster or bird, say, and then one day kills that little guy... would you get rid of the cat? :confused:

chico2
November 2nd, 2006, 11:47 AM
TD,no I don't think so,but I would make sure this did not happen again.
However this situation is IMO more violent and certainly bloodier,because of the size of a dog and cats.
I don't like to see any animal suffer this fate and had this been a little dog he killed and not 3 cats,the owner would have been in trouble.

technodoll
November 2nd, 2006, 11:59 AM
it just seems all a bit hypocritical to me.... a life is a life, yet we attribute "value" according to size and what we as a society deem a life is worth? a cat killing a mouse is ok. a cat killing a bigger pet, say a rabbit, is not ok but still not terrible. a dog killing a bunny is bad, but not as terrible as killing a cat, but the worst would be killing another dog, because we value dogs first, then cats, then the smaller the creatures the less they are worth? :confused:

i'm just being the devil's advocate here... any loss of life is sad, but it seems to me that the severity of the judgement posted on the "attacker" varies depending on the esteem we place on the "victim".

it's an interesting look at our society, IMO :eek:

chico2
November 2nd, 2006, 12:57 PM
TD,I have saved a few mice from my cats,since I am out with them I can make sure they don't catch birds or kill mice.
I too value any life and respect their rights to live,no matter how big or small.
However,I love my cats just as much as you love your beautiful dogs and I would not be able to keep a dog that would be a threat to their lives,it's up to me to make sure any animal I have is living in a safe environment.

Prin
November 2nd, 2006, 01:02 PM
I see what chico is saying, maybe. A cat and a dog are free to roam. Pet mice, birds, rats, etc, are not, which makes them much easier to separate from the cat/dog, so it's easier for them to live under the same roof in safety. A cat and a dog together when the dog has previously killed cats is a much greater risk and somebody has to be removed from the home. And for her house, she is so devoted to her kitties, that the dog (i.e. the newcomer) would go. Is that what you're saying?

technodoll
November 2nd, 2006, 01:07 PM
um, no... what i was saying (without stumbling on my words, LOL) is that the death of a dog by another dog, gets much more attention than the death of a cat by a dog, and the death of another critter by a cat is a "fact of life" - talking generally, broadly here - because cats are accepted hunters, but our dogs are not supposed to be (we domesticated them, right?...) does that make sense? :o

all this speaking from a media point of view (what we see in papers, read on the internet, etc)

happycats
November 2nd, 2006, 01:11 PM
TD I think with Chico's situation, she had her cats first, and loves them very much, so if she got a dog and it killed her cats, rehoming the dog would make more sense no? (she is already attached to her cats)

I know if I now got a dog and it killed any of my cats I would have no choice but to rehome the dog.....but then again I would never ever get a dog that killed cats, (and no I'm not talking about Pits, many breeds can and will kill cats) I would research research research, before I bring a dog into my home.

I think the only answer for you KimC, is to try not to attract stray cats, and don;t ever own one. I don't think your dog will change, and no I don't blame your dog, this is just something he does, instinct.

Prin
November 2nd, 2006, 01:12 PM
um, no... what i was saying No I mean, what chico was saying.;)

Prin
November 2nd, 2006, 01:13 PM
I'm still not convinced it wasn't the Jacks though. :shrug:

phoenix
November 2nd, 2006, 01:14 PM
TD, I think Chico is saying that for HER, she could not keep a dog that killed one of her beloved cats. I brought home a dog once from the humane society and the dog killed my sister's kitten. I had to bring it back because I knew that a) my sister would forever hate the dog and never forgive it! and b) I also knew that part of living at my house at the time was living in harmony with lots of cats and horses and other dogs. I don't think it's a judgement on the value of a life... if I had birds and I adopted a bird-killing cat, I'd probably have to rehome it because it didn't suit my lifestyle... see what i'm saying? The OP's loyalty are to her dog, and so she's keeping it and trying to change their lives around it (ie- no cats!).

technodoll
November 2nd, 2006, 01:39 PM
oops sorry guys, i was not aiming my comments at anyone on this forum :rolleyes: just sharing some random observations, about how the media (and just plain folks...) react when a pet kills or hurts another pet... dog kills dog = media fodder, but dog kills cat = no media attention at all... aren't cats as valuable as dogs? :o

happycats
November 2nd, 2006, 02:43 PM
oops sorry guys, i was not aiming my comments at anyone on this forum :rolleyes: just sharing some random observations, about how the media (and just plain folks...) react when a pet kills or hurts another pet... dog kills dog = media fodder, but dog kills cat = no media attention at all... aren't cats as valuable as dogs? :o


Unfortunately to many "it's just a cat" :sad: they say it like it's vermin or something.

chico2
November 2nd, 2006, 04:53 PM
I did at one time have a dog and cats together,Mishka was a GermanSheperd/Collie mix,the thought never entered my mind that she could kill the cats,she loved those cats.
I always thought a dog would know the difference between animals he lives with and wild animals,but then again,I don't know very much about aggressive,preydriven dogs.
Happycats and Phoenix,you are right,although I would love to have a dog,a big lumbering sweet dog,were I to get one and he killed either Chico,Rocky or Vinnie,he would be gone.
Little Bailey(Cocker)whom I walk every day,loves to chase squirrels and anything that moves,but the one time she could have caught a squirrel,she just stood there,as if thinking"Now what do I do"??:D
I of course shooed the little guy away.

LM1313
November 3rd, 2006, 03:47 AM
When I was researching dog breeds, I specifically steered away from anything with prey drive or "chase and grab" instincts . . . Even though there are plenty dogs from those breeds who live peacefully with cats, the additional risk from those instincts, small though it might be, is just not worth it for me. My kitty boys mean the world to me and I would be crushed if an animal I brought into my home killed them. Not that I'm trying to blame the OP or anyone else . . . I'm just making conversation. ;)

I, too, would have a hard time keeping a dog in the house if it killed one of my kitties. But techno has valid points too . . . I think most people would keep a cat even if it ate a pet rat. Society does seem to have a "sliding scale" regarding the value of the lives of our pets!

kimC1
November 3rd, 2006, 05:41 PM
There is no way that I would "rehome" this dog. He will be 6yrs old in January and has not been raised around small children. He has never shown aggression towards children, adults and the neighbor's dogs but I could never forgive myself he he hurt someone. I would be afraid if we gave the dog away, he would end up being used for wild hog hunting or even dog fighting. We live in the county and in the past have had stray cats show up. I know if any stray cat shows up, I will take it to the humane society. Hopefully they would take it. Its is so hard to get the humane society to take cats or kittens in my area. There will be no more cats as long as we have him. So, I appreciate all of your comments.

technodoll
November 3rd, 2006, 09:32 PM
he is a beautiful boy... and i, too, could never give my dogs up no matter what. they are with me for life, for better or for worse :candle:

chico2
November 4th, 2006, 07:34 AM
KimC1,he is a very good looking dog and I can understand your sentiment,you love him.
Rehoming him would probably be his downfall.
There is not much you can do,if stray cats wander in to your/his yard.
There is always a danger for stray/outdoor cats to be killed by a wild animal or loose dog.
That's why my cats are never out on their own.

pitgrrl
November 4th, 2006, 09:05 AM
kimC1, is there anything about the way you contain the dog that could be changed to limit his access to any other cats? Is he allowed to roam around on your property unsupervised? Can you check your yard for cats each and everytime he goes out? If your yard isn't fenced, can you take him out on a long line?

I'm not at all trying to criticize, I too have two dogs with crazy prey drive and it takes alot to keep them and other animals out of trouble. I would be horrified if they ever got ahold of another animal, but that would be my failing, not the fault of the dogs.

There is no way that I would "rehome" this dog. He will be 6yrs old in January and has not been raised around small children. He has never shown aggression towards children, adults and the neighbor's dogs but I could never forgive myself he he hurt someone.

I think it's very responsible of you to realize that re-homing him could be a disaster, but because finding a good home for a pitbull is hard enough, much less one who will take on a dog who is that intolerant of cats, not because he presents a danger to people. If the dog has never shown any aggression towards people, then his prey drive should not be any indication of the stability of his temperment in regards to humans. It's an entirerly different type of behavior.

OntarioGreys
November 5th, 2006, 02:49 PM
Did the attacks on the cats all occur outside?

Some dogs are fine with a cat that is indoors but outdoors if they see a cat run it simply becomes prey in their eyes like any other small animal outside.

Also do the JRT's play chase after the cat, if he is seeing that occur that can cause pack instinct to kick in.

I have greyhounds with a fairly high prey instinct between them and my eskie they have caught and killed birds and rabbits, my cats are kept strictly indoors and there is no chasing of the cats allowed for any reason, if they do they are corrected with a spray of water from a squirt bottle. Walking up to sniffing is fine This is not to say this would work for all dogs, any dog that you can break their focus on a cat or drool and stares just at the sight of a cat is going to be non cat trainable

coppperbelle
November 5th, 2006, 06:57 PM
TD I think with Chico's situation, she had her cats first, and loves them very much, so if she got a dog and it killed her cats, rehoming the dog would make more sense no? (she is already attached to her cats)

I know if I now got a dog and it killed any of my cats I would have no choice but to rehome the dog.....but then again I would never ever get a dog that killed cats, (and no I'm not talking about Pits, many breeds can and will kill cats) I would research research research, before I bring a dog into my home.

I think the only answer for you KimC, is to try not to attract stray cats, and don;t ever own one. I don't think your dog will change, and no I don't blame your dog, this is just something he does, instinct.


Ummm I had a standard poodle that hated small animals and if given a chance would not hesitate to kill them. It is not necessarily the breed of dog although some breeds are more prone to this behavior but the dog itself. I have two golden retreivers, one has an extremely high prey drive while the other has none at all.
I think it is very unfortunte that your dog is like this but I think you will either have to re-home him or get rid of your cats. They obviously cannot live safely in your home or in your yard while the dog is around.

bmerc
November 6th, 2006, 12:40 PM
Not another one....:sad:

Isn't the point of the forum to share one's opinion in order to try and help one another whether we agree or not. Is it appropriate to make comment on others opinions in such a close-minded way, as if to single them out????? This was neither warranted nor appreciated!!!! If you wish to challenge someone's thoughts do so in a PM or a more tactful fashion, thanks.

wdawson
November 6th, 2006, 07:16 PM
Unfortunately Pit Bulls were bred to fight to the death, a dispicable fact which says a lot about humans. It is in their genes, an instinct.The best fighters with the strongest instincts were the ones often bred. Many Pits cannot resist the instinct...not all...but some. That's why I'm in agreement with muzzling in public, and responsible Pit Bull ownership...not breed-bans. I've heard way too many stories of Pits attacking smaller animals on the street, to the horror of the victims owners, and the courts do judge the attacker a threat to the community and they are euthanized. They can turn quickly on other animals, even if they were previously fine, I agree that the Jack Russell should be separated when unsupervised. I would much rather err on the side of caution then regret being too trusting. And now that there is a pattern of behaviour involving cats.....never let your dog get near another. As Dr. Phil says the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.:)


how would being muzzled in public have prevented this....these where family pets killed on there own home turf. As far as responsible pit bull ownership...i think you really mean't to say dog ownership right?.....cause any dog can kill not just pits..i see why your not in favour of breed bans cause your breed could be next,just wait till pits are not the poster child of evil and they try to ban goldens......and as far as reading too many stories about pits attacking animals in public....well we all know that a yorkie that attacks a pit is not to attractive as a headline.......i also think we are not being told the whole story here....someone forgot to tell the original poster that pits don't make good guard dogs...they are people orientated......and if this person gave the dog away once then this dog must not be high up in the family.

erykah1310
November 6th, 2006, 07:26 PM
Well, kimC1, He is a handsome boy, and I know what you mean with living in the country and the SPCA not taking the 'stray' cats... they seem to believe that they are your cats and kittens that are breeding out of control and you are trying to "dump" them off, I understand that this must happen alot, however, they do not give the benefit of the doubt.

you are definately in a real tough spot with this situation. Im sorry that you are going through this and I admire that you are standing by your dog...

I truely hope you can find a solution soon.
Best of luck.
Sorry I have no thoughts or tips for you.

LL1
November 6th, 2006, 10:08 PM
Were they killed inside or outside the home?Inside, keeping them separate,and a muzzle would work,outside,a leash would work.And get some help with training etc Where do you live?Do you have BSL?

happycats
November 7th, 2006, 07:15 AM
Ummm I had a standard poodle that hated small animals and if given a chance would not hesitate to kill them. It is not necessarily the breed of dog although some breeds are more prone to this behavior but the dog itself. I have two golden retreivers, one has an extremely high prey drive while the other has none at all.
I think it is very unfortunte that your dog is like this but I think you will either have to re-home him or get rid of your cats. They obviously cannot live safely in your home or in your yard while the dog is around.

Just wanted to know, what your quote meant?:shrug: :)

spud
November 7th, 2006, 07:46 AM
That is exactly why pitbulls are banned here in my city in Ontario . no offense by all means, but if any of these were MY cats...I would be insisting your dog be put down. I do not agree on having a pit bull, nor do I agree on ever had bred them in the first place. WHO in the world breeds an animal to kill and then try to keep them as a pet!? Sorry (this is likely the only issue I feel so passionatly about) NEVER EVER get another cat! And watch out for the cat lovers in your neighbourhoood, cuz if your dog hurts their cat, you may be in for a big problem (at least if they are anything like me!!)
PS I hope your dog doesnt have a love for the taste of blood now...watch your kids...your neighbours kids...the kids at the park.
spudster

spud
November 7th, 2006, 07:48 AM
If you have a cat and need to rehome your cat send it to me, ill find it a nice home.

pitgrrl
November 7th, 2006, 09:18 AM
That is exactly why pitbulls are banned here in my city in Ontario . no offense by all means, but if any of these were MY cats...I would be insisting your dog be put down. I do not agree on having a pit bull, nor do I agree on ever had bred them in the first place. WHO in the world breeds an animal to kill and then try to keep them as a pet!? Sorry (this is likely the only issue I feel so passionatly about) NEVER EVER get another cat! And watch out for the cat lovers in your neighbourhoood, cuz if your dog hurts their cat, you may be in for a big problem (at least if they are anything like me!!)
PS I hope your dog doesnt have a love for the taste of blood now...watch your kids...your neighbours kids...the kids at the park.
spudster

Are you kidding? A taste for blood? That's a myth right up there with locking jaws.
Most dogs will display some degree of prey drive in the right circumstances, ofcourse some more than others, but that is not a breed specific trait. Further, prey drive and human aggression are entirerly different behaviors, and your suggestion that going after a cat is a prelude to attacking a child shows nothing but a lack of understanding of even the most basic of canine behavior.

Frankly, if you're only worried about whether your neighbours have pitbulls or not, you're not keeping your cats or other animals safe. Clearly there was some serious errors in management on the part of the OP, and hopefully they have learned from their mistakes and will take better precautions in the future, but it has nothing to do with breed. Perhaps your time would be better spent worrying about responsible and knowledgable pet ownership, then pitbulls.

I'm curious, why do only pitbulls bother you? Other breeds have fighting histories, and like pitbulls they also have many other qualities which make them wonderful pets for a responsible owner. To single out one breed entirerly misses the point and does little to actually reduce any harm inflicted by dogs, that is something only braoder education and better all breed laws would be able to fix.

spud
November 7th, 2006, 10:00 AM
I truly mean no disrespect. I see that you admire your pitties; as much as I admire my kitties.
I just cant imagine actually trying to introduce ANOTHER cat to a dog that already killed one.
I agree I should not single out one breed, I was just commenting that the particular breed we are discussing here is banned in my home town.
Please also note that this is as a result of too many attacks on children and inocent people and family pets causing permanent disfigurement and emotional scarring as well as a few deaths...all of this ended up causing this bi law.
I have been bitten by a dog, my husband was bit, and my daughter was bit in the face ( I guess dogs just dont like us..) so I am a lot cautious when I hear of such violent behaviour displayed by your dog.
good luck.

pitgrrl
November 7th, 2006, 11:00 AM
I truly mean no disrespect. I see that you admire your pitties; as much as I admire my kitties.
I just cant imagine actually trying to introduce ANOTHER cat to a dog that already killed one.
I agree I should not single out one breed, I was just commenting that the particular breed we are discussing here is banned in my home town.
Please also note that this is as a result of too many attacks on children and inocent people and family pets causing permanent disfigurement and emotional scarring as well as a few deaths...all of this ended up causing this bi law.
I have been bitten by a dog, my husband was bit, and my daughter was bit in the face ( I guess dogs just dont like us..) so I am a lot cautious when I hear of such violent behaviour displayed by your dog.
good luck.

I agree that the dog should have not further access to cats, as it is truely sad that 3 have been killed. I must respectfully, but adamently, disagree that bill 132 was passed in Ontario only for reasons of public safety. Had this been the only agenda, there would have been many other, more practical and effective types of legislation. 132 was instead a great attention grabber, one which relies on media and government manufactured hysteria, which is then calmed when a bandaid is carelessly slapped on a problem which is complex and multi-faceted.

What would you say to the victims of dog bites inflicted by other breeds? Is their suffering not as important because it did not involve a pitbull? How would you explain to the thousands of responsible, vigilant owners, who's dogs have never so much as hurt a fly, that are now required to muzzle their dogs? How do I explain to my family that I can no longer go visit them on holidays because my dogs, who have never posed a threat to anyone, can't legally enter the province they live in? Perhaps most importantly, what would you say to the dogs who are taken away from their owners or euthanized not because of a history of aggressive behavior, but simply because of their breed?

I would suggest you do a bit of reading on the subject of both bill 132 and the breeds which fall under the umbrella of "pitbull".

http://www.ontla.on.ca/hansard/committee_debates/38_parl/session1/legassembly/M009.htm
http://www.bdnhumanesociety.com/calgary_solution.htm
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/
http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html
http://www.doglegislationcouncilcanada.org/
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/

SarahLynn123
November 7th, 2006, 11:24 AM
I have been bitten by a dog, my husband was bit, and my daughter was bit in the face ( I guess dogs just dont like us..) so I am a lot cautious when I hear of such violent behaviour displayed by your dog.
good luck.


You have all been bit by pitbulls?

spud
November 7th, 2006, 12:21 PM
Great info you posted.
no, not by pitbulls :rolleyes: - we were all bit by different kinds breed and ages of dogs. I'm just saying dogs don't like me, or my family apparently...I have read the stories in the newspapers and seen pictures on the news about boys and girls attacked by pitbulls and it is devistating to see such damage! so , for me, when I see bills passed that are for my safety and other innocent members of society then I guess I support it.
I would not want to see some great dog owner who has a great harmless dog have to put it down just because of its breed, but I would like to see them stopped being bred all together. Dog lovers can choose from many many other less contraversial dog breeds. I believe any animal that has the potential to kill a person should not be bred and kept as pets. There are plenty of dogs that bite out there, big ones little ones, and any animal that does bite another animal or person should be put down. So in order to save a super dog from a potentially dangerous situation muzzle him so he cannot bite some kid whos pulling on his tail or some kid that bends down innocently just to pet him, but looks in his eyes and the dog takes that as aggression and bites. I have to agree on the muzzle thing, It s the only thing that makes me feel safe when passing a dog i dont know on the street or in the park.

Prin
November 7th, 2006, 12:24 PM
Hmm... ALL cats attack me. Maybe I should look into a tabbyban.

pitgrrl
November 7th, 2006, 12:28 PM
Hmm... ALL cats attack me. Maybe I should look into a tabbyban.

Just a couple of weeks ago a cat jumped out of the bushes and attached himself to my dog's head, so I would absolutely support your tabby ban Prin :evil:

spud
November 7th, 2006, 12:34 PM
LOL! ha ha ha! actually sorry you were attacked, I do hear of the occasional crazy cat...and I am quite certain that lots of them get put down every day. I had a cat who attacked me when we had our first baby (he settled down once he realized the baby was staying though) someone said there is a different value for cats and dogs..I thinks its true about the importance chain...so are guinea pigs and then rats at the bottom of the importance list?

Our town was trying to bann cats actually. They wanted them to remain indoors only or on a leash...it didnt pass, but im sure some individuals will push it again...all these people and all these preferences eh...when will we all learn to liive together? Violence in our teens, in our dogs...in our schools where does it stop ?

happycats
November 7th, 2006, 12:36 PM
Hmm... ALL cats attack me. Maybe I should look into a tabbyban.


Awww Prin, are you sure they are "attacking" you?, cat's LOVE to play, maybe your just reading them wrong;)

Tabbyban!!!:eek: no way, kitties are SO sweet!!

Hunter's_owner
November 7th, 2006, 12:44 PM
Our town was trying to bann cats actually. They wanted them to remain indoors only or on a leash...it didnt pass, but im sure some individuals will push it again...all these people and all these preferences eh...when will we all learn to liive together? Violence in our teens, in our dogs...in our schools where does it stop ?

Actually that sounds like a good idea. Maybe then people will start to have their cats spayed/neutered and take care of a lot of the problems associated with cats outside.
But that isn't banning cats, that is just making the owners become more responsible for their pets. A ban would involve no one being allowed to own the cat. That is a different thing altogether. Right now, dogs are basically kept indoors or on a leash all the time, but even with that, comes the people wanting a breed banned (not contained in a house or on leash) actually banned.

coppperbelle
November 7th, 2006, 12:44 PM
Just wanted to know, what your quote meant?:shrug: :)
Sorry, should have been clearer. I was just reiterating what you said that it is not necessarily just pits but that all breeds can be dangerous to small animals. Mine happened to be a poodle which is not generally thought to be vicious but she was.

happycats
November 7th, 2006, 12:53 PM
Sorry, should have been clearer. I was just reiterating what you said that it is not necessarily just pits but that all breeds can be dangerous to small animals. Mine happened to be a poodle which is not generally thought to be vicious but she was.

Oh, thanks ! We had a BC, sheepdog cross, who killed everything that moved!!:eek: but she wouldn't kill cats, because she had been raised with a very dominate cat, who always put her in her place.
You are right though, any dog can kill a cat, breed means nothing!

Prin
November 7th, 2006, 12:54 PM
Awww Prin, are you sure they are "attacking" you?, cat's LOVE to play, maybe your just reading them wrong;)

Tabbyban!!!:eek: no way, kitties are SO sweet!!


lol no, I know they attack. :evil: Just by the way the owners are shocked when it happens, I know.:D Even the nicest kitties attack me. One even pierced a vein in my arm and two tendons. But they're still cute. I'd rather ban puppymills and bybs instead.:shrug:

When does the violence end? When people realize you don't have to be crazy to go to a shrink... And when (some) parents step up and PARENT- furparents AND skinparents alike. ;)

Edit: Now that I think about it... Tigers and Lions and Bears and things attack all the time too, but for some reason we (most of us anyway) accept that they are animals, with instincts and biiiiig teeth and stay far away.

happycats
November 7th, 2006, 12:58 PM
lol no, I know they attack. :evil: Just by the way the owners are shocked when it happens, I know.:D Even the nicest kitties attack me. One even pierced a vein in my arm and two tendons. But they're still cute. I'd rather ban puppymills and bybs instead.:shrug:

When does the violence end? When people realize you don't have to be crazy to go to a shrink... And when (some) parents step up and PARENT- furparents AND skinparents alike. ;)

Edit: Now that I think about it... Tigers and Lions and Bears and things attack all the time too, but for some reason we (most of us anyway) accept that they are animals, with instincts and biiiiig teeth and stay far away.

My one cat "Lucky" would just LOVE you!! He senses fear, and goes for it:D

Prin
November 7th, 2006, 12:59 PM
lol I have no fear. I have expectations.:D I think I have dog smell running through my veins or something. I definitely set something off in kitties.:shrug:

pitgrrl
November 7th, 2006, 01:27 PM
Great info you posted.
no, not by pitbulls :rolleyes: - we were all bit by different kinds breed and ages of dogs. I'm just saying dogs don't like me, or my family apparently...I have read the stories in the newspapers and seen pictures on the news about boys and girls attacked by pitbulls and it is devistating to see such damage! so , for me, when I see bills passed that are for my safety and other innocent members of society then I guess I support it.

So wouldn't your own experience tell you that better animal/owner laws need to be put in place and enforced, or even just decent enforement of leash laws etc., would actually be in the interest of public safety, rather than singling out a few breeds and claiming that without them, everyone will be safe? Clearly the bites you and your family sustained would not have been prevented by a breed ban, so why support it?

I would not want to see some great dog owner who has a great harmless dog have to put it down just because of its breed, but I would like to see them stopped being bred all together. Dog lovers can choose from many many other less contraversial dog breeds. I believe any animal that has the potential to kill a person should not be bred and kept as pets. There are plenty of dogs that bite out there, big ones little ones, and any animal that does bite another animal or person should be put down.

But why should my right to own whatever breed I want, assuming I'm a responsible and considerate owner, be infringed upon by laws which don't even accomplish greater public safety? Should anything which is contraversial be given up?
I'm all for dogs who are deemed dangerous, by a fair and qualified body which is not biased against certain breeds being dealt with appropriately, as am I in favour irresponsible owners who actually do put the community at risk being hed accountable, but none of that has to do with breed.

When you say "potential to kill a person" what do you mean? Size?....we'd have to ban pretty much ever dog. Did you read the testimony given in Ontario to which I posted a link above? Did you read what Donna Trempe had to say about the dog attack on her daughter? A pitbull ban would not have prevented that.


So in order to save a super dog from a potentially dangerous situation muzzle him so he cannot bite some kid whos pulling on his tail or some kid that bends down innocently just to pet him, but looks in his eyes and the dog takes that as aggression and bites. I have to agree on the muzzle thing, It s the only thing that makes me feel safe when passing a dog i dont know on the street or in the park.

I'm confused about what a "super dog" is. A really great dog? A dog with super canine powers? I have no idea if my dogs are super or not, but they certainly don't need a muzzle to keep children safe. Infact they are regularily poked and explored by toddlers, barked at, screamed at and cried in front of and the they've never done anything other than wag their tails, dole out a few licks and patiently wait while kids touch them all over. They're not special or exceptional, they're just exhibiting proper pitbull temperment.

If you're ever in Montreal, you have an open invitation to meet my dogs, I have yet to see anyone spend more than 5 minutes with them and not be totally charmed, even if they were originally convinced they would be eaten.

wdawson
November 7th, 2006, 01:57 PM
Were they killed inside or outside the home?Inside, keeping them separate,and a muzzle would work,outside,a leash would work.And get some help with training etc Where do you live?Do you have BSL?

LL1

you can't keep any dog muzzled 24hrs a day or chained in the yard.....

LL1
November 7th, 2006, 02:03 PM
I agree,and wouldnt suggest that.

LL1

you can't keep any dog muzzled 24hrs a day or chained in the yard.....

LM1313
November 7th, 2006, 03:11 PM
I don't think pit bulls in general have much of a prey drive . . . They're dog-aggressive, which is different. Some breeds that are known for high prey drive are sighthounds (bred to run down prey), terriers (bred to independantly hunt vermin), and nordic breeds (I'm not sure if they were specifically bred to hunt, they're mostly used for sledding these days. But it would make sense if the Inuits originally used them for hunting too.) And also hounds, I'm thinking? Not sure about that one.

Anyway, lots of breeds have a tendency to chase smaller animals. But plenty of individuals from those breeds can be taught to live peacefully with cats . . . or may not even have any interest in them to begin with! Likewise, individuals from breeds who are traditionally peaceful with other animals (like labradors) can have a very high prey drive and be dangerous towards smaller animals.

The breed I've heard the most horror stories with (in the vein of "the dog and cat lived peacefully together for years and then I came home to a dead cat") is daschunds. Perhaps because cats are approximately the same size as the badgers they were bred to hunt? I don't know, just a theory.

wdawson
November 7th, 2006, 06:21 PM
SPUD

funny how in one breath you agree that pits be banned and pits should not be kept as family members as they are killers....then in the next breath you tell us all your family members have been attacked by different breeds of different ages and not a pittie in the bunch:rolleyes: ....thats why bsl does NOT work.

spud
November 7th, 2006, 07:14 PM
I have subjective reasons to want to bann or euthenize any violent dog. Pitbulls have been proven by some courts that they are a danger to society..I have no desire to own one and am afraid of many kinds of dogs due to my experiences. I sympathise with you loving dog owners whom this is affecting, but for someone like myself I am grateful for this kind of protection. Its too bad I am afraid...perhaps those who decided to pass this law were afraid too?or was there basis for this decision?
I would love to say all dog owners are responsible and that that would solve the problem , but no one can make a person be responsible...unless its after the fact ; so if banning violent tendant dogs was the answer I guess thats how it is...I havent seen any other reasonable solution...no one even likes muzzling their dog...so I guess they have to bann certain ones in order to make people be responsible. a few bad cookies ruined it for them all...isnt that always the way it is. I wish I wasnt so afraid of dogs but once you are bitten - It s hard to not be afraid.

Rottielover
November 7th, 2006, 08:05 PM
not true, I was bit by a shepherd...I am not scared of shepherds. I realize what you say, a couple bad apples ruin it...That is just that a couple. I will not stop loving a breed because of a bad apple.....
I am not scared. I am more scared of walking down a street alone, afraid of being attacked by a human, not a dog.
Shall we ban the human race as well. We have killed alot more than any one breed of dog.
Well that does not work, so why would banning the pitts, and rottweilers help...It will just allow the irresponsible owners to start owning lab and goldens( just naming 2 popular dogs, no offense to be taken)
Have them do the biting...Of wait have to ban them too. So what after that, start going after the small dogs....
Either way, banning one breed, does nothing.....Making rules, following by the rules, and being responsible will change things...


So think about what you are saying...

MyBirdIsEvil
November 7th, 2006, 08:08 PM
WHO in the world breeds an animal to kill and then try to keep them as a pet!?

Many people have breed dogs to be aggressive towards certain animals, yet they are kept as pets. Most terriers were bred to be aggressive towards, or attack and kill other animals yet they're not aggressive towards humans. Sitehounds were all bred to run after and kill small animals, yet they're not people aggressive.

I agree I should not single out one breed, I was just commenting that the particular breed we are discussing here is banned in my home town.
And no offense, but do you even know what a pit bull is?

The American Pit Bull Terrier is often referred to as just "pitbull" for short. The APBT should NEVER be aggressive towards humans, this is a breed fault.

If you'd like to educate yourself on the APBT you can go to this page and click "terrier" then go to American Pit Bull Terrier.
http://www.ukcdogs.com/RegUKCBreeds.htm

The American Staffordshire Terrier is often referred to as "pitbull" for short also. To make it complicated AmStaffs can be be duel registered as both an AmStaff and an APBT. However a dog that's already registered as an APBT can't be registered as an AmStaff by the AKC.

You can read about AmStaffs here:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_staffordshire_terrier/index.cfm
and here:
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanstaffordshire.htm

-----

Then there's the American Bulldog which is often mistaken for a "pitbull":
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanbulldog.htm

There's also many other breeds that have nothing to do with dogfighting that look just like what people would consider "pitbulls"


In a technical sense a pitbull can refer to a dog that has been bred and trained to fight other dogs. In this case pitbull doesn't refer to a breed, but to a dog that has been trained to fight other dogs. Dogs that are trained for dogfighting don't adhere to a breed standard and they're not a breed, they're just dogs that have been bred and trained to fight. What you also may not know is people that breed fighting dogs often don't breed their dogs to be human aggressive. They want the dogs to attack other dogs, not THEM or their family.

So are you saying we should ban fighting dogs? Dog fighting is already illegal, so what is the point of persecuting certain breeds that aren't even bred to fight?
Bans on pitbulls are singling out ANY dog that so much as LOOKS like an AmStaff, APBT, American Bulldog, and many other breeds.

As far as dogs that kill cats, ALL terriers have the ability to hunt down small animals and kill them, that's what they were bred for.

Pit bull IS NOT A BREED. You don't even know what you're suggesting a ban on. Your comments are out of fear, not educated knowledge or factual information. Making laws out of fear and misinformation is a BAD route to go, especially when the laws persecute certain groups of people, or a group of animals that aren't even well defined.

You can't arrest people that look a certain way just because other people that look like that have commited crimes, THAT would be racism. Banning dogs that look a certain way, euthanizing them, making them wear muzzles, etc., and harrassing people because their dogs look a certain way is not much better IMO.

White Wolf
November 7th, 2006, 08:09 PM
This thread has run its course and will now be closed.