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need help figuring this out!

meb999
October 23rd, 2006, 08:35 PM
:o ok, so I'm really getting discouraged. I've had Buster for a year and a half, and we've never found a food that suits him. The only food he did well on was Nutram Lamb and Rice, which has ALOT of corn, and made him a little itchy. All the other foods we've tried have either caused explosive diarhea or MASSIVE MASSIVE LARGE poops. :(

I know there's something in these foods he can't digest. I can't feed RAW (see thread http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=30947)

Here are the foods we've tried :

EAGLE PACK :

Holistic Select® Anchovy, Sardine & Salmon Meal w/Oatmeal Formula

Anchovy, Sardine & Salmon Meals (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Oatmeal, Ground Brown Rice, Pearled Barley, Menhaden Oil (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Dried Beet Pulp, Sun-Cured Alfalfa Meal, Air Dried Peas, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Dried Carrots, Dried Apples, Inulin, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Dandelion (Organic), Garlic Powder, Yucca Schidigera Extract, DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, d-Pantothenic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Rosemary Extract, Inositol, Dehydrated Kelp, Polysaccharide Complexes (sequestered) of Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper and Cobalt, Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium, B. Subtillus, Bacillus lichenformis, Bacillus coagulins, Aspergillus oryzae and Aspergillus niger.

Holistic Select® Chicken Meal & Rice Formula

Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Anchovy & Sardine Meal, Pork Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Whole Ground Barley, Tomato Pomace, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Canola Oil, Dried Apples, Cheese Meal, Dried Carrots, Air Dried Peas, Sun-cured Alfalfa, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Quinoa (Organic), Inulin, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Dried Cranberries, Dried Blueberries, Beta-Carotene, Dandelion (Organic), Garlic, DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Rosemary Extract, Inositol, Dehydrated Kelp, Polysaccharide Complexes (sequestered) of Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper and Cobalt, Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium, B. Subtillus, Bacillus lichenformis, Bacillus coagulins, Aspergillus oryzae and Aspergillus niger.


WELLNESS :

Super5Mix® Chicken

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, Rice Bran (from brown rice), Rye Flour, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of vitamin E), Whitefish, Tomatoes (natural source of lycopene), Natural Chicken Flavor, Flaxseed, Ground Millet, Carrots, Apples, Spinach, Blueberries, Sweet Potatoes, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride

Super5Mix® Lamb

Lamb, Menhaden Fish Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, Rice Bran (from brown rice), Rye Flour, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of vitamin E), Salmon Meal, Tomatoes (natural source of lycopene), Ground Millet, Natural Lamb Flavor, Carrots, Apples, Spinach, Blueberries, Sweet Potatoes, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate.


SOLID GOLD :

WolfKing Adult Dog (bison)
Bison | Salmon Meal | Brown Rice | Millet | Cracked Pearled Barley | Oatmeal | Rice Bran | Canola Oil | Flaxseed Oil | Garlic | Amaranth | Blueberries | Yucca Schidigera Extract | Carotene | Choline Chloride | Vitamin E Supplement | Iron Proteinate | Zinc Proteinate | Copper Proteinate | Manganese Proteinate | Potassium Iodide | Thiamine Mononitrate | Ascorbic Acid | Vitamin A Supplement | Biotin | Calcium Panthothenate | Selenomethionine | Pyridoxine Hydrochloride | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Riboflavin | Vitamin D Supplement | Folic Acid |

and now INNOVA EVO :

Turkey, Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Herring Meal, Chicken Fat, Natural flavors, Egg, Garlic, Apples ,Carrots, Tomatoes, Cottage Cheese, Alfalfa Sprouts, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract, Vitamins/Minerals, Viable Naturally Occurring Microorganisms


All these have been fed for AT LEAST a month (usually around 2 months). Buster's been on EVO for a few weeks, I've just reduced his portions to 1 cup and a half (he's been on that portion for 3 days), and no improvements. EVO seems to be least bad of all these foods...but still -- it's not normal.

What am I missing? What's the common ingredient in these foods? I already know he has an intolerance for corn (it makes him itchy....even just a little bit of corn....) Maybe chicken? :confused:

Prin
October 23rd, 2006, 08:43 PM
Barley and then chicken.

What about Evo RM? Have you tried that?

meb999
October 23rd, 2006, 08:47 PM
I asked the store owner to order it...it may take a while to get here though :frustrated: Maybe I'll check in town....

technodoll
October 23rd, 2006, 08:47 PM
digestive enzymes & probiotics at every meal...

try evo rm? or nature's variety raw instinct? don't overfeed... also add a bit of fat-free yogurt to the food...

has buster been cleared for IBD?... it's just not normal... poor sweetie.

Prin
October 23rd, 2006, 08:49 PM
I asked the store owner to order it...it may take a while to get here though :frustrated: Maybe I'll check in town....

Where are you? Woofers can get it pretty fast. Or I can even lend you some.:D

meb999
October 23rd, 2006, 08:51 PM
yeah, he's been cleared for Irritable bowel...
I had a whole panel of tests done, and the vet said it's food-related. She wants him on science-diet something :yuck:

I've given him yogourt before, but didn't notice a difference. Maybe I'll go to the health food store and pick up some probiotics...

meb999
October 23rd, 2006, 08:52 PM
I'm on the south shore....Club K-9 is pretty close to my school though, and I think they have the RM.

Prin
October 23rd, 2006, 08:53 PM
Not sure. Little Bear might be more likely. Call ahead though...

technodoll
October 23rd, 2006, 09:00 PM
dakotah had a rough first 2 years with a sensitive tummy... even now and then he still has "issues"... i've found that digestive enzymes (2 capsules before the meal) and probiotics (2 capsules after the meal) works wonders for our boy... perhaps that, coupled with a food he can tolerate, would do the trick? you can find both at your local pharmacie :dog:

meb999
October 23rd, 2006, 09:08 PM
do you mind giving me the brand you use?

Prin
October 23rd, 2006, 09:12 PM
I use Udo's choice anti-yeast probiotics... They have all the usual ones, plus extra ones for yeast.:shrug:

technodoll
October 23rd, 2006, 09:19 PM
i get the Jamieson Digestive Enzymes (look for protease (digests protein), lipase (digests fat), and amylase (digests carbohydrates).

I don't remember the probiotics brand... just ask the pharmacist, or you can also get them in any health-food store but they're much more expensive there. you need to store those in the fridge, as they're quite sensitive to heat and light :)

les
October 23rd, 2006, 09:39 PM
I haven't been feeding RAW as long as Techno and I'm not a real expert but I thought I'd share my thoughts anyways =)

I looked back at your post when you tried RAW and saw that you gave Buster a chicken leg and he couldn't handle it - - when I first switched my dogs my male had really runny poops (I also fed chicken with bone in, skin on). It happened that both of them went back on kibble for 2 days because I was gone away - when I got back I fed him ONLY boneless, skinless chicken breast for a few days. Then we tried some ground beef - no bone for a couple of days and a few more days of boneless, skinless chicken breast.

So that was about a week - then I went to chicken quarters and he's been fine ever since (about 4 weeks now) And they've tried many kinds of meat without any problems.

Also, my female lab was really lethargic for the first couple of days and she's usually REALLY crazy. I was sort of worried but I had read that could be expected. And it passed - we just went easy on the exercise for a couple of days and she just mostly slept. Within 2-3 days she was back to normal .... crazy!

So maybe if you went REALLY slow you could get Buster there - - just a thought =)

meb999
October 24th, 2006, 01:42 PM
thanks Les, but I got a little freaked out last time I tried RAW. I'm not quite up to trying it again. It took like 5 days for him to return to normal.

He wasn't just a little lethargic....I had to carry him to bed, he didn't even want to stand up. the only time he stood was to beg for the door, the he'd poo outside, take a few steps and lie down in the grass...

It was awfull :sad:

les
October 24th, 2006, 01:54 PM
Yeah that sounds really scary. If you ever do decide to try again, I'd try just the meat first for awhile =)

As for kibble ... did you ever try the Canidea? I had my guys on it for awhile and it was actually the one with the best results. (minus the never ending ear infections my lab gets - but she gets them on ALL kibble!!) We also tried the regular innova which was good too. My male had good poops on both of those foods and he's the super sentitive tummy type!

Why is it so tough to find a food?? :evil:

meb999
October 25th, 2006, 08:57 PM
well, the store took back the big bag of EVO (thank goodness!!) and I bought a small bag of Natural Balance Venison and brown rice. It's very rice-y, but it has no chicken and no barley. I'm buying pro-biotics tomorow :fingerscr :fingerscr
If DVP Venison and Rice works out, maybe i'll add a little EVO RM to up the protein a bit....

Prin
October 25th, 2006, 09:06 PM
I wudda just gone for the Evo RM directly... :o

When I'm done the bag of DVP (fish), I'm not buying another one. It's ok food, but the protein is really low, and there isn't enough fish to keep the dandruffs away, and it's really expensive, so I'd rather just spend that cash on salmon oil instead.:shrug:

meb999
October 25th, 2006, 09:20 PM
actually I felt kinda bad returning a huge bag of food (that I've been feeding for like 2 weeks) without buying something in return. Plus I want to get Buster on a single protein source for a few days to settle his tummy...
:o Oh! And I'm lazy!! I didn't want to drive all the way into town for RM, (I'm off school this week) I figured I'd just drop by the store near my school when i go back next week :o

Prin
October 25th, 2006, 09:24 PM
Good luck.:)

mafiaprincess
October 25th, 2006, 09:35 PM
I dig... I returned like 80 bucks of wolf king... So I bought 3 random small bags.. I felt bad.. And now she is likely allergic to something in the dvp ultra or something in the NV chicken.

Aodhan
October 25th, 2006, 11:53 PM
Marie-Eve, I'd hate to be your petfood storeowner!:D

But I mostly think poor Buster! It saddens me that you haven't been able to find a food that agrees with him. I was surprised to read that you had interesting results with the Nutram. I really hope it works out with the DVP but if it doesn't, you might want to consider Nutram's (note: I do not own shares in the company or the distributor) sensitive stomach (lamb and no corn) formula or the rumoured soon-to-be-available new formula (duck? I don't have the details but two knowledgeable people have talked to me about this; best would be to email Nutram directly). I know it's not the 'best' brand out there but it might be a good fit with Buster; a few cats I know do as well on Techni-Cal as on Holistic Blend or Solid Gold even though they can't handle very well Chicken Soup or DVP or even Wellness.

I'm lucky:fingerscr my dog can eat anything but I feel for you and Buster. Can't wait to see the day when I find out you've found a food that works for him. Good luck!

Prin
October 26th, 2006, 12:00 AM
hmm.. I looked at the ingredients, and I think the Canidae Lamb and rice is better...

Lamb meal, ground rice, rice flour, ground barley, flaxseed, chicken fat (preserved with Vitamin E), pea fiber, natural flavors, dried whole egg, salt, potassium chloride, kelp meal, bacterial cultures (Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Enterococcus faecium), mannanoligosaccharides, choline chloride, chicory root extract (a source of FOS), Vitamin C, yucca schigidera, marigold extract (a source of lutein), Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Vitamin K (menadione), Vitamin B12, riboflavin, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, biotin, ferrous sulphate, iron proteinate, manganous oxide, manganese proteinate, zinc sulphate, zinc proteinate, copper sulphate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, beta carotene, cobalt proteinate, sodium selenite. http://www.nutram.com/petfood/_n_/sensitive.aspx
You'd have to find out what they use for vitamin C too, whether it's ascorbic acid or citric acid. Also, barley was in a lot of the foods above, so I'd avoid that in any foods you try.

Oh and it has menadione too.

Lamb Meal, Brown Rice, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flax Seed, Sun cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Lamb, Lecithin, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory Root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, L-Lysine, Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of Vitamin B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Organic Selenium, Dried Papaya, Dried Pineapple, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

http://www.canidae.com/dogs/lamb-and-rice/dry.html

With the Canidae, the Lamb is still #1. :shrug:

mafiaprincess
October 26th, 2006, 12:01 AM
*edit*
Beat me to it I was highlighting ingredients as you posted, haha.

Prin
October 26th, 2006, 12:07 AM
heh heh :evil:

meb999
October 26th, 2006, 08:29 AM
Marie-Eve, I'd hate to be your petfood storeowner!



Oh! I only returned that one bag of EVO. Every other food I waited at least until the bag was empty before changing (wnated to give each food a minimum of 1 month trial). So don't feel tooooo bad for my petfood store :D

But I mostly think poor Buster! It saddens me that you haven't been able to find a food that agrees with him. I was surprised to read that you had interesting results with the Nutram. I really hope it works out with the DVP but if it doesn't, you might want to consider Nutram's (note: I do not own shares in the company or the distributor) sensitive stomach (lamb and no corn) formula or the rumoured soon-to-be-available new formula (duck? I don't have the details but two knowledgeable people have talked to me about this; best would be to email Nutram directly). I know it's not the 'best' brand out there but it might be a good fit with Buster; a few cats I know do as well on Techni-Cal as on Holistic Blend or Solid Gold even though they can't handle very well Chicken Soup or DVP or even Wellness.


The thing with Nutram is that although Buster did very well on it the first few months, after a while his fur started getting dull and he started getting itchy. I always assumed it was the corn (because I know corn is probably the most allergenic ingredient in the Lamb and Rice), but maybe it was the barley? :shrug:

Even though the poops have been bad with all the food posted above, I must admit that his coat is BE-A-UTIFULL....

meb999
November 2nd, 2006, 04:52 PM
ok, so DVP Venison and rice is also off the list of possible foods. But, to be fair I've only fed it for a week.....But the bag is empty, and seeing as how Buster is still doing poorly (and has now taken to chewing his paws.....not sure if it's the food or not, but it started the day after the switch and he's been doing it all week :frustrated: ) I'm not buying another.

Natural Balance® Venison & Brown Rice Dry Dog Food
Venison, Whole Grain Brown Rice, Rice Flour, Venison Meal, Rice Bran, Canola Oil (preserved With Mixed Tocopherols And Citric Acid), Natural Flavor, Flaxseed Oil, Kelp Meal, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Chloride, Choline Chloride, L-lysine, Dl-methionine, Dicalcium Phosphate, Dried Parsley, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid (vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin K1 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid (Vitamin B-9).

I found a store on the south shore that sells the EVO RM (is 75$ plus taxe a rip off?) and I bought the big bag. I'm giving it a month....if THIS doesn't work I'm completely at a loss :o :confused:

technodoll
November 2nd, 2006, 05:45 PM
I found a store on the south shore that sells the EVO RM (is 75$ plus taxe a rip off?)

it's a bit on the high side... i negociated mine down to $72 :D

i really REALLY suggest you get a broad-spectrum digestive enzyme to your boy, 1 capsule with water before each meal. you'd be amazed at the difference it can make in the digestibility of the kibble meals... see this thread for more info: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=32338

:crazy:

barkley21
November 2nd, 2006, 06:29 PM
Hi Meb999,
Sorry to hear that you and Buster are having so many issues trying to find a food that agrees with him...I for one know exactly how frustrated you feel :frustrated:
We have a 6.5 month old pup and up until 1.5 months ago, we were at a loss too. He had consistently loose stools from the second day we had him. He was switched onto the Medi-Cal fibre formula by our vet to firm up the stools. So, that cleared up and we ventured to switch him back onto the puppy food. Loose stools again immediately and he was diagnosed with colitis shortly thereafter. Back on the Medi-Cal he went, plus a round of antibiotics. Once things cleared up, we went to try a different food as we didn't intend to keep him on the Medi-Cal any longer than we had to (not very nutritious food). We tried the DVP Duck and Potato. Poops were okay on the most part but he got a urinary tract infection with struvite crystals in it. Off the DVP and back on the Medi-Cal and yet more antibiotics for the UTI. Once it cleared up, we tried switching him to Solid Gold Wolf Cub. Poops were so-so but UTI came back. Our vet was at a loss as to what was causing all of this :confused: . Also, to make matters worse, he was constantly itchy (scratching and biting himself), and his ears were getting infected and always had brown discharge that smelled awful. Our vet wanted to put Barkley on the Medi-Cal anti-crystal kibble and see how it goes. Once I read the ingredient list, I cried. Enough was enough. We asked our vet about feeding raw. He said he strongly objected and basically said we'd kill our dog. I found this odd because in my mind I wondered how natural, nutritious, raw food could be bad for them, yet processed kibble was supposed to be good for them? :confused: We found a holistic vet for a second opinion. He on the other hand wasn't at a loss about what was going on and diagnosed Barkley within five minutes of hearing his history. He had dysbiosis...basically he didn't have enough of the good bacteria in the tummy to process and digest food properly and he had too much of the bad bacteria running amuck in there. He loved the idea of raw and set us up with a diet plan and a good quality probiotic to make the tummy environment more healthy. We literally saw a change the very next day. He didn't have so much as one loose stool, the itching stopped and within one week the ears cleared right up. I used to clean them every 3 days and now I haven't cleaned them in about a month because they are so spotless! :) I read that dogs can experience different degrees of detox when switching to raw, but Barkley's never got more serious than vomiting a couple of times (we tried lamb at the time and he doesn't seem to do well on it). Are you sure Buster isn't just going through a more severe case of detox? I read that the longer that a dog has been on kibble, the longer or more intense the detox process can be. Are you sure you don't want to give raw another chance? I know how hard it is to watch your dog suffer, but what if it's worth it in the end and he ends up doing fantastic on it??? Maybe give it one week as opposed to just the one day and see how it goes and start with just ground meat, no bones, like the others have suggested:confused: I wouldn't be such a raw advocate if I didn't see the changes in Barkley with my very own eyes. He really and truly is like a different dog. Did I mention that when he switched to raw the UTI and crystals cleared up on their own without any medication?? :thumbs up
I know not every dog is the same and that different diets work for different dogs, so I'm not saying your dog will 100% for sure do well on raw, but his symptoms sound similar to Barkley's although his detox symptoms are quite severe. What ever you choose, I really hope you and Buster feel better and that you find something that works. Those few months with Barkley were really bad and I feel horrible that you've had to go through it for a year and a half already :sad:
Keep us posted :fingerscr

Prin
November 2nd, 2006, 07:30 PM
I found a store on the south shore that sells the EVO RM (is 75$ plus taxe a rip off?) and I bought the big bag. I'm giving it a month....if THIS doesn't work I'm completely at a loss :o :confused:
It's a rip off in general, but that's how much it costs in Qc.:shrug: Good luck!


It could be the canola oil too maybe... Chicken, barley, canola oil.

meb999
November 5th, 2006, 09:27 PM
well another item is off the 'feedable' list : chicken wings :D

hazelrunpack
November 5th, 2006, 09:30 PM
Marie-Eve...I've only been here for a month so maybe this is posted elsewhere.... But have you ruled out things like inflammation in the intestines or other metabolic problems in Buster?

Prin
November 5th, 2006, 10:17 PM
What are you doing now? The Evo RM?

pitgrrl
November 6th, 2006, 10:53 AM
Just for the purpose of giving you another option, as I went through every premium and prescription kibble I could get my hands on with little sucess, I thought I'd suggest the food I've been using for the past couple of years.

It's basically homemade food, but uses a bought base. It was originally justed to me by a few people on a boxer forum who had had some of the same colitis, sensitive stomach, kibble intolerance problems I was dealing with in my dogs.

The food is called Essex Cottage Farms. I specifically use the Gastro formula, and it not only stopped any signs of colitis or soft stool withint 24 hours of switching to it, it also seemed to get the dog's GI system into shape and allow them to eat a lot of stuff that they didn't tolerate at all before the switch.

www.efarms.cc

technodoll
November 6th, 2006, 11:11 AM
looks good, pitgrrl! the only issue i have with these people is when they post BS statements like:

NOTE: DO NOT FEED A RAW DIET TO YOUR DOG WITH A SENSITIVE STOMACH / GI PROBLEMS

on their pages. of course they do this because they want to scare people off a REAL diet and sell their products - all petfood companies do that. But it's still propaganda and misinformation. the truth is, MOST dogs do extremely well on a raw diet and it is the ultimate cure for digestive ailments. so when a company says things like that... it's such a turn-off, i don't even want to look at them twice. :shrug:

vfrohloff
November 6th, 2006, 11:27 AM
Maybe I missed it, but have you tried Canidae Lamb and Rice yet? I have a dog with explode-a-butt and he's doing really well on the Canidae so far. The DVP didn't do so well for me either, and my dog is allergic to chicken so I am really limited as to what I can give him. So far so good with the Canidae though.

Scott_B
November 6th, 2006, 11:34 AM
thats what i found. DVP venison was runny, Wellness venison was runny, lamb & rice he firmed up totally!

Prin
November 6th, 2006, 12:55 PM
I hope that food isn't expensive pitgrrl... I mean you're adding the most expensive ingredients yourself.:shrug:

pitgrrl
November 6th, 2006, 01:16 PM
looks good, pitgrrl! the only issue i have with these people is when they post BS statements like:



on their pages. of course they do this because they want to scare people off a REAL diet and sell their products - all petfood companies do that. But it's still propaganda and misinformation. the truth is, MOST dogs do extremely well on a raw diet and it is the ultimate cure for digestive ailments. so when a company says things like that... it's such a turn-off, i don't even want to look at them twice. :shrug:


I agree with you to an extent, but my experience with my own dogs is that prior to feeing this food, when their GI systems were a total mess, raw meat caused disasterous results. I know many people who switched to raw and found it to be the solution to their dog's problems, but this was not my experience.
After using this food for a couple of years, and having significantly improved their health, they can eat raw without any problems, so I think it can go either way.
The same company actually also makes a raw mix which I've heard nothing but good things about, so I don't actually think they're against raw feeding.
I'm sure they are a company like any other, but besides the fact that I like thier food, I am glad that they're a smaller, Canadian company, who'd owners you can reach by phone, as it seems like a lesser evil to me.

I hope that food isn't expensive pitgrrl... I mean you're adding the most expensive ingredients yourself.:shrug:

It's cheaper than weekly or monthly vet visits, countless prescriptions and half used bags of food.

I feel like I'm coming off like a cult member, and I'm truely not, I just went through so many feeding disasters and chronic health problems with my dogs and this food was the only thing that really worked that I feel like it's worth mentionning. I also think it's a good compramise for someone who doesn't feel like they can go raw, for whatever reason, but isn't having any luck with kibble.

Prin
November 6th, 2006, 01:23 PM
lol no, no, you're not culty. :D It's just for me, that's a bag of grains, and grains are pretty cheap. It just bugs me when dog food companies overcharge because they think there's some sort of novelty factor.:shrug:

technodoll
November 6th, 2006, 01:42 PM
I feel like I'm coming off like a cult member, and I'm truely not, I just went through so many feeding disasters and chronic health problems with my dogs and this food was the only thing that really worked that I feel like it's worth mentionning. I also think it's a good compramise for someone who doesn't feel like they can go raw, for whatever reason, but isn't having any luck with kibble.

not at all! and i'm so sorry if i've made you feel anything else than the super-dogmom :o it takes a lot of devotion to go through what you did and end up with a winning formula :love:

i simply meant... that such "fear tactics" should not be used by anyone to sell their own goods... they could rather state "some dogs with GI issues might not tolerate a raw diet very well, our products are a viable alternative" or something to the effect, you know? broad sweeping statements are seldom true in the pet food world... :shrug:

so have you tasted one of those muffins? :D

pitgrrl
November 6th, 2006, 02:19 PM
not at all! and i'm so sorry if i've made you feel anything else than the super-dogmom :o it takes a lot of devotion to go through what you did and end up with a winning formula :love:

i simply meant... that such "fear tactics" should not be used by anyone to sell their own goods... they could rather state "some dogs with GI issues might not tolerate a raw diet very well, our products are a viable alternative" or something to the effect, you know? broad sweeping statements are seldom true in the pet food world... :shrug:

so have you tasted one of those muffins? :D

It's all good, I just didn't want to sound like I had stock in the company or something :D

I will certainly agree that they make weirdly bold, broad statements on their site. Their other site, for Urban Wolf, which is their raw line of products, says some even weirder stuff, like "cancer prevention diet", but when I"ve spoken to the anyone from the company they seem pretty normal, so who knows.

I don't eat meat, but I have made a few of my meat eating friends try it and they all say it tastes like meatloaf that could use some salt.

lol no, no, you're not culty. It's just for me, that's a bag of grains, and grains are pretty cheap. It just bugs me when dog food companies overcharge because they think there's some sort of novelty factor.

I think if one had time, you could totally just rip off their recipie pretty cheaply. I've actually done a pretty good job of replicating it a couple of times when I've run out, but I guess I keep paying for the cake mix like simplicity of it..........and they get me with the AmStaff on the label:D

technodoll
November 6th, 2006, 02:25 PM
and they get me with the AmStaff on the label

you know your marketing campaign is good when... LOL! :D

and I like buying pancake mixes and boxed cake mixes... yep, convenience. :shrug:

meb999
November 6th, 2006, 06:48 PM
yeah, we're doing EVO RM now....the poop situation is pretty bad, but I think it has alot more to do with the super spicy 4 whole chicken wings he gulped down than the food itself. It'll take a week for his system to clear up a little, then I'll know if the RM is working. I'm going to give it at least a month. The 2 last foods we tried , I switched pretty rapidly, so maybe if I give him a little break :shrug:

Prin
November 6th, 2006, 07:43 PM
:fingerscr Good luck! :)

meb999
November 6th, 2006, 07:48 PM
Marie-Eve...I've only been here for a month so maybe this is posted elsewhere.... But have you ruled out things like inflammation in the intestines or other metabolic problems in Buster?

yeah, he had a few full exams at the vets, she says it's the food...and I should feed science diet :rolleyes:

Scott_B
November 7th, 2006, 04:47 AM
Have you tried adding a bit of plain yoghurt or canned pumpkin(not the pie filler) to his kibble for a few days? Pumpkin soaks up extra moisture and helps with the runs.

meb999
November 8th, 2006, 08:48 PM
yeah, I often will add a little pumpkin to his meals to firm him up...I've also been adding pro-biotics. I'm giving it a month. Then I think I'll give RAW another try (especially since we now have a full forum dedicated only to RAW!!)

meb999
November 13th, 2006, 06:27 PM
well, it's been ten days...and I still have a zillion cow patties in my backyard...http://bestsmileys.com/eek/9.gif
Should I give it a whole month? We're doing the digestive enzymes and probiotics now....:o keep in mind i'm still really afraid to try raw again....

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 08:38 PM
hmm... :(

That really sucks. And if you fast him for a day and then give a half portion the next day, does it help? :o

meb999
November 13th, 2006, 08:41 PM
It helps in that it gives me about half a portion of liquid poo :o

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 08:47 PM
Do you think he's allergic to meat protein? Have you tried an all veggie diet? :o

meb999
November 13th, 2006, 08:52 PM
well, I'm hoping it won't come to that :o, but if that's my last resort :shrug:
there's still a chance that he'll firm up on the RM, right? :pray: Should I bring back the bag (it's only been ten-ish days....:o )

Prin
November 13th, 2006, 09:12 PM
I don't think 10 days of patties is a good sign... I'd maybe keep that bag and go get a veggie food in the meantime..
Oooo, you could just try veggie canned food for a bit and see if it firms up. You know? Instead of buying a bag of something...

technodoll
November 13th, 2006, 09:14 PM
marie-eve, we were exactly in your situation with dakotah 2 years ago. a dozen huge stinky cow patties every day, he pooped twice what he ate, no kibble or probiotics helped. at one point it got so bad, he was bleeding from his butt, yellow mucus, you name it. $350 dollars later (pancreatic test, blood test, fecal test, antibiotics (metronidazole and sucralfate) and a small bag of hydrolized soy protein diet kibble), there was improvement after 24 hours, much better after 3 days, and we got him to soft-solid poops which was a miracle. we finished the bag of vet kibble (which was only to give his intestines a break, because that crap had no nutrition) and then said THAT'S IT he's going back on raw. and we made him like it, made him eat it, we went very very slowly like it was his first transition and you know what? perfect small hard non-smelly stools within a few short days and it's like we had a new dog. :shrug:

meb999
November 18th, 2006, 06:50 PM
hubby has put his foot down : NO RAW....:o

The poops are getting a little itsy-bitsy bit better with the probiotics and digestive enzymes. (no longer liquid...now they fool you : they look solid until you try to pick them up! :yuck: )

I'm halfway through the RM bag. What do you uys think of SG Barking at the moon? I know it isn't the top of the top....but it's a little more fishy, so maybe I'd have better luck? Plus it doesn't have any chicken or barley (actually, no grains at all!)

Barking at the Moon High Protein, Low Carb Adult Dog Food

Salmon Meal | Beef | Potatoes | Potato Protein | Canola Oil | Tomato Pomace | Natural Flavor | Salmon Oil | Choline Chloride | Taurine | Dried Chicory Root | Parsley Flakes | Pumpkin Meal | Almond Oil | Sesame Oil | Yucca Schidigera Extract | Thyme | Blueberries | Cranberries | Carrots | Broccoli | Vitamin E Supplement | Iron Proteinate | Zinc Proteinate | Copper Proteinate | Ferrous Sulfate | Zinc Sulfate | Copper Sulfate | Potassium Iodide | Thiamine Mononitrate | Manganese Proteinate | Manganous Oxide | Ascorbic Acid | Vitamin A Supplement | Biotin | Calcium Panthothenate | Manganese Sulfate | Sodium Selenite | Pyridoxine Hydrochloride | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Riboflavin | Vitamin D Supplement | Folic Acid

Prin
November 18th, 2006, 06:52 PM
I think the evo RM is better.:o But the BM has tomato pomace (stool hardener) which might help in your case.:shrug:

meb999
November 18th, 2006, 06:57 PM
yeah, I know the RM is better....but I also thought maybe a little tomato pomace might harden everything back up :o :shrug:
On one hand I'd like to try a fishy food, but then you hear of the poisons in salmon, and I'm not sure anymore :shrug:

meb999
November 18th, 2006, 06:58 PM
Plus, Buster has started chewing his paws...for a week now. Not sure if it's food related though :frustrated:

Prin
November 18th, 2006, 07:00 PM
They say the benefits of the salmon outweigh the risks and that dogs just don't live long enough for the metals and things to do any significant damage (but who knows what they'll say next week).

technodoll
November 18th, 2006, 09:53 PM
at this point... what do you have to lose to try a small bag? :shrug: poor buster! i wonder if his butt hurts? :(

TeriM
November 18th, 2006, 10:07 PM
I tried Barking At The Moon with Riley. Originally thought it was working pretty well but within a few short days of the total changeover we were back to some ugly poops. It does have a very strong fishy smell.