Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Stubborn People and Vegan Doggie diets.

mafiaprincess
October 22nd, 2006, 11:08 PM
Where's that head banging smiley?
http://www.terrificpets.com/forum/38891.asp
Dogs need vitamin C and fibre but no meat.........
I see.. Where do these people come from..? I mean that's a mighty skeazy place to try to learn anything from really.. But it kills me that ignorant people help breed more ignorant people.. Because they won't listen t the handful of non tooly people.

Prin
October 22nd, 2006, 11:15 PM
Umm.. I thought dogs made their own vitamin C... I'll go check.

mafiaprincess
October 22nd, 2006, 11:18 PM
Pretty sure they do.
It's the loser on there that is making wierdo claims liek dogs don't really need any meat.

Prin
October 22nd, 2006, 11:22 PM
Other animals, including rats, rabbits and dogs, produce their own vitamin C so it is not an essential nutrient for them.

http://www.medaille.edu/vmacer/120_lec_06nutrition.htm

:shrug: :shrug:

mafiaprincess
October 22nd, 2006, 11:24 PM
Mmmhmm...
Now it's up to quoting articles that suit them and calling royal canin a premium food.. I give up tooly people can't be educated.

Lissa
October 23rd, 2006, 12:48 AM
I am not sure if its been updated since but the studies that indicated dogs and cats produce vitamin C were done right after World War II.
Dr. Wendell Belfield (author of "The Very Healthy Cat Book" and "How to have a Healthie Dog". His studies indicate that most animals need to be given vitamin C - especially if they are on a commercial diet. "Giving vitamin C can prevent degenerative spine disorders, arthritis, skin and coat conditions and ruptured disks"... He believes it improves "immunity, treats viral and bacterial infections, detoxify's the body, improves the condition of cancer patients and prevents arthritis and joint problems; its a myth that large quantities of vitamin C is toxic or causes kidney stones".

Of course there is so much information out there, its hard to know who to believe! Dodger is on BARF so doesn't get vitamin C everyday but he will get it a few times a week (especially if he is sick). Vitamin C will cause loose stools as a way of getting rid of the excess (this will depend on each individual dog) but clearly let's you know how much your pet "needs".

Anyway, back to the original topic LOL - I know someone on the agility circuit who has her dog on a half-vegetarian and half regular kibble diet. Apparently his digestive system cannot process meat. He's "fine" on the diet in as much that his coat looks great and his energy level for a 10 year old dog is wonderful.
Having said all that, I certainly wouldn't recommend a veggie diet or say its nutritionally balanced for a dog.:)

mafiaprincess
October 23rd, 2006, 10:39 AM
If a dog can['t handle meat proteins I have no issue.. I just have an issue with people who seem to think dogs don't actually need any meat so they will all thrive on a vegan diet. Or posting info from the skeaziest sources to 'prove' that corn is one of the best things you can feed a dog..

technodoll
October 23rd, 2006, 10:48 AM
the silly thing is... 99.9% of dogs can handle raw meat proteins very well (evolution designed them that way...) it's the cooked meat in kibble that causes alot of problems and people turn to grains and veggies instead, they just don't even think to look "outside the box"... good lord, all they have to do is look at their dog's anatomy, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out :frustrated: and yep, they go spread false information to mislead other people into feeding their dogs a species-inappropriate diet.. wonder if they feed their pet snakes salads and bricks of tofu, too :eek:

mafiaprincess
October 23rd, 2006, 11:20 AM
HAHAHa A snake with tofu, lord..

I agree the worst is the spreading of misinformation... Makes me almost want to give up trying to help people on less skeazy sites, just cause it's maddening... I've even given people links so they can go read themselves... and I still hear research from some mighty lame sources.

technodoll
October 23rd, 2006, 11:35 AM
:D i've heard the opposite, too... "hey horse has colics, he's allergic to grains and grass, let's feed him STEAK!" LMAO

on a more serious note... yeah i agree with you. the word "research" is so loose, it allows for anything and everything :shrug:

Lissa
October 23rd, 2006, 11:40 AM
I agree entirely Techno! The idea of kibble is so unnatural IMO, I am surprised that it isn't a natural thought for most people.
I think it must be a combination of a lack of knowledge and the convenience of kibble (for the average dog owner). The other day I watched a Mother and Daughter look at all the foods that the department store offered. I was impressed and thought there was some hope...When the daughter read Beneful's title of "complete and balanced for the healhty growth of puppies" I had to step in. Now they didn't buy Beneful but I am not sure they really understood what I was trying to say about fillers. I felt like they appeased the crazy dog food lady, walked around the block and grabbed the Beneful once I left the aisle:o It's so hard to reach people without upsetting or confusing them.

mafiaprincess
October 23rd, 2006, 12:13 PM
I dig that too Lissa.. I've tried to educate in stores.. Or when employees give whacked advice..But I don't want to be the crazy dog lady either..

That's totally it Techno.. In the age of the Internet, anyone can write anything including an opinion piece and then someone searches finds it and posts it as he truth of all truths to prove their point..

Guess that's why in high school they were mighty strict on exactly where you were getting an Internet source from..

Which I even mentioned last night.. I wanted to see something from a non sketch resource, but that never happened..

SnowDancer
October 23rd, 2006, 12:24 PM
Vitamin C did absolutely nothing to prevent Dachshund disc disease. Actually Vitamin C added to a dog's diet - particularly a dog with an acidic PH can contribute to stones. I can't take Vitamin C - I get stones!

Lissa
October 23rd, 2006, 02:14 PM
Vitamin C did absolutely nothing to prevent Dachshund disc disease. Actually Vitamin C added to a dog's diet - particularly a dog with an acidic PH can contribute to stones. I can't take Vitamin C - I get stones!

I am not trying to say that its a cure-all vitamin (although, I think its important and scary to know that an animal will die within 3 months without Vitamin C).
Also, when you are dealing with such a susceptible breed, I doubt anything could prevent the inevitable from happening (whether its the simplicity of a vitamin or the complexity of surgery).

Dr. Belfield had over 15 years of clinical experience with over 2000 animals who benefited from added Vitamin C before he wrote his book. The argument is that because of all the chemical preservatives in commercial diets, the vitamin C that the animal manufactures themselves is all but used up in combating that (let alone other health issues). Vitamin C cannot be stored so it needs to replenish itself daily which can be hard on an animal eating a commercial diet who needs to make and use a lot more. Also another finding is that pets, cats in particular can only reproduce sufficient amounts of vitamin C if their diet is rich in all other essential nutrients (which is often not the case with kibble)...
I know that he found that there wasn't a definitive correlation between adding extra vitamin C and kidney stones but perhaps further research has been done since.

meb999
October 23rd, 2006, 02:42 PM
the silly thing is... 99.9% of dogs can handle raw meat proteins very well (evolution designed them that way...)

I guess Buster is the 0.01% exception....:sad:
Kibble is so complicated. If you listen to every diffrent kibble complany, you'll go crazy. I think Prin should start her own dog food company and Techno should start a pre-packaged raw company....at least we'd know what we were feeding our pooches!

rainbow
October 23rd, 2006, 02:46 PM
Prin and I already decided to start one when I win the lotto. :D

technodoll
October 23rd, 2006, 02:48 PM
LOL! meb999, you so funny :D

you know, over a million dogs... 0.01% still is a fair number... buster's not alone, I am sure! however, in the wild... if you can't eat what nature offers you, then you will be eliminated from the gene pool very swiftly... a sad but effective way of ensuring the survival of the species as a whole. i guess that is the good yet the bad of domestication, weaker pets are allowed to survive and pass on their weaker genes, and down the road the offspring suffer from a multitude of problems that should not be there in the first place.

hey! am i watching too many "Discovery Channel" shows??? LOL :eek:

Prin
October 23rd, 2006, 02:52 PM
Prin and I already decided to start one when I win the lotto. :D

I didn't win this week. Well, I did but only $5.:(

technodoll
October 23rd, 2006, 02:58 PM
well, it's $5 more than most people win! :D

Prin
October 23rd, 2006, 03:00 PM
lol I'm on my way! :D