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Dog dominance and other dogs

mafiaprincess
October 21st, 2006, 09:03 PM
So.. Cider rolled a 13 month old sheltie in agility class the other night. She didn't cause any actual harm, but I won't stand for it.. She got on top of him, and was just well snarly.. teeth bared, gums back.. vampire face. All noise, but I wasn't happy.

She did this 4 months ago in the people park across the street with a 7 month old shih cross designer mutt.. All noise, no actual harm. I was so so upset then.. but it hadn't happened again and she's played with a goodly number of dogs since.

I don't know what caused either incident. I didn't see anything in body language to alert me.. but for all you know they looked at her in a way she didn't like and chose to correct them..

Only things in common are being young unneutered males.

Moron did it again yesterday in the dog park, or tried to.. 2 yr old eskie, not sure if he was fixed or not.. tried to roll it got vampire facy all noise and I pulled her off and made her lay down for a while. She got a chance to get near him later, and they played fine for the rest of the time they were together. She never got a chance to get near the other 2 dogs from the previous incidences again though, so she might have continued to be a terror, or gotten over it..

Trainers told me that I should get close to the sheltie in class and click and treat if she ignores him.. Problem is she acts desperate to play with him.. Tail wagging off her bum, little excited yips, she doesn't ignore, but she's not nasty till her reciprocates play..

Any suggestions on what to do short of keeping a really close eye on her?
I know dogs are like people, and they won't make friends with every dog they meet.. but I don't accept picking fights which seems to be what she's doing either.

Prin
October 21st, 2006, 09:05 PM
Maybe she's gay.

mafiaprincess
October 21st, 2006, 09:06 PM
*dies*
Thanks hun, really helps me fix her. lol.

Prin
October 21st, 2006, 09:07 PM
lol sorry, I had to. :D

(Joke from here: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=31924 ;))

Only things in common are being young unneutered males.That caught my eye. Boo SMELLS unneutered males before I can see them. He knows where they are and gets ready long before they even meet. Maybe that's what Cider does. The testosterone smell is a dominant smell, and maybe she smells it and thinks, "Oh yeah, you think you're dominant over me, eh?" and then proves she's "the man", and then everything is ok after that. :shrug:

mafiaprincess
October 21st, 2006, 09:14 PM
Yeah.. I was starting to think that.. If that Eskie was also unaltered, it's a pattern.. too much of one to ignore..

All the dogs in agility but Cider seem to be unaltered... And she wants a go at all of them.. Initiates on leash play, they go to play back she gets snarly.. So now, all these people with mainly big dogs are 5 feet away from us at all times even on leash..... Still love class but oi..

Trainer suggested it could be something so simple it could just be a look I can't see that sets it off.. Said she isn't an aggressive dog because she plays nicely with 99% of dogs out there.. just makes me scared that maybe she'll roll a dog and get teethy with it rather than just snarly loud. I'm not entirely sure it's fixable though..

Prin
October 21st, 2006, 09:18 PM
With Boo, I taught "Leave him alone" and brought him away from the dog. I've done it enough in his lifetime that he usually gets it and stays far enough away from the intact doggy.

mafiaprincess
October 21st, 2006, 09:21 PM
That's a pretty easy solution.. at least easier than any sort of socialization I was thinking of which would entail finding a dog she hated and stuff..
I use leave it for other dogs when we are rollerblading. Too afraid of her tripping us both because she wants to socialize. Just to put it into teaching it in a higher stress/ less wanting to listen situation.

Cathy1
October 21st, 2006, 09:21 PM
Thanks for asking that question? I'm having similar problems except Jasper grabs on and doesn't let go. I will keep watching this post and maybe I might learn something.:thumbs up
Good night everyone.

technodoll
October 21st, 2006, 09:32 PM
funny thing... dakotah (intact) also SMELLS intact males from a mile away and switches on his "mr hyde" personality in a second... we know him so well now, the suble changes in posture, body language, etc that even if we don't see the dog, we are on high alert and the leash immediately goes on (if it wasn't already on), the collar goes up high on his neck and we just stay away from the other dog... i just can't deal with the alpha rolling, the spit and noise and teethies that go with it anymore. we had to learn the hard way though but that learning curve is over, thank god. no more incidents since we are more vigilant.

i don't know if you can ever train this out of cider, every dog is different, but learning her body language cues (and there are ALWAYS clues... watch her intensively and you will see her pattern after a while). i :fingerscr you find a good way to deal with this! :)

LL1
October 21st, 2006, 09:40 PM
I would be really careful and keep her out of the dog parks,some day a dog may take offense and she could be badly hurt or killed.

mafiaprincess
October 21st, 2006, 09:43 PM
I know there are cues.. I just haven't seen them.. Miss I swear I want to play with you.. At agility we were working on 2 by 2 weaves, and she was off and the other dog was leashed and she wandered off so I was at a disadvantage of like 10 feet away and she had her butt to me, so I didn't see what her front end might have shown.. Same in the dog park.. like 7 feet away and I got her bum again..

I'm sure I'll pick it up eventually, just she's so hot and cold.. Alpha this minute, slinking around not really wanting to play with anyone attached to my side the next.

Good to know though that she isn't necessarily odd though if she's pickign up on intact males. Being my first and only dog, I'm a little behind on dog behaviour..

mafiaprincess
October 21st, 2006, 09:45 PM
2 dog park visits in 6 months.. Really isn't a common occurrence. Never had had an issue with dogs the last time we went. Wasn't really sure she'd find an issue potentially with all intact males till now. Not really trying to cause an issue.

meb999
October 25th, 2006, 12:10 PM
Buster hates other dogs, he has particular special kinda hatred for any Golden retriever (male, female, intact or not, dominant or event extremely submissive....he hates them all!)

I've tried everything. Meeting with only submissive dogs I know, teaching him : 'leave it!', slow introductions, watching for his cues (I can now sense Busters cues), putting him in 'down, stay' after he's gotten into a fight, doing obedience with him at the dog park, nothing really worked for us. We just avoid dog parks :shrug:

Why can't we all just get along?