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Is he allergic?? Switching yet AGAIN...

ShaggyRudy
October 20th, 2006, 09:14 PM
Hi all -
So, after many weeks of research, we switched our dog from Science Diet to Innova Adult. He loved it and the switch over went very well. BUT - three days after being on 100% Innova, he started to itch a lot. He also started a fresh "hot spot" on his leg. I was pretty sure it must be the new food, but took him to the vet just in case. The vet was sure it was the food and suggested that I put him back on Science Diet (of course, because my vet clinic SELLS Hill's brand). So, I talked to the owner of my local pet food store and he suggested EVO, because it has no grains. So, pup has been eating EVO for almost a week now. The sore on his leg has gotten better, but he's still itching. It's not REALLY bad itching, though. He doesn't leave marks or loose hair or anything. However, it is pretty frequent. I looked at a lot of other threads on the forum and I see mixed opinions on EVO.
Today, I talked to the pet place about hypo-allergenic brands. They suggested Pinnacle (duck & potato or ....can't remember the other kind). They were both one single protein source and no grains.
I feel so bad for our pup, changing around so much...but I don't know what else to do because we don't want to put him back on the crap he was eating before.
Any thoughts?? Do you think he's allergic or maybe this is a fluke (seasonal skin itching, etc.)?

Thanks!!

meb999
October 20th, 2006, 09:20 PM
it COULD be allergies....how long has he been on EVO? There are quite a few allergy options out there:
- California Naturals makes 3 foods that have few ingredients (less ingredients, less chances of there being something in there your dog is allergic to :

California Natural Chicken Meal & Rice
Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground White Rice, Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavors, Taurine, Flaxseed, Vitamins/Minerals

California Natural Herring & Sweet Potato Adult
Herring, Barley, Oatmeal/Rolled Oats, Herring Meal, Herring Oil, Sweet Potatoes, Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavors, Vitamin E , Vitamins/Minerals, Rosemary Extract

California Natural Lamb Meal & Rice
Lamb Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground White Rice, Sunflower Oil, Taurine, Vitamins/Minerals, Beta Carotene

meb999
October 20th, 2006, 09:23 PM
Dick Van Pattent (DVP) makes two grain-less kibbles :

POTATO & DUCK FORMULA
Potatoes, Duck, Duck Meal, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Potato Fiber, DL-methionine, L-Lysine, Sodium Chloride, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed Oil, Rosemary Extract, Natural Flavor, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin K1 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid (Vitamin B-9).

Natural Balance® Sweet Potato & Fish Formula
Sweet Potatoes, Salmon, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Canola Oil (preserved With Mixed Tocopherols And Citric Acid), Sweet Potato Fiber, Dl-methionine, L-lysine, Sodium Chloride, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed Oil, Rosemary Extract, Natural Flavor, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin K1 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid (Vitamin B-9).

but I find them very patato-y....

ShaggyRudy
October 20th, 2006, 10:06 PM
Thanks!
I was wondering about brands that contain "potatoes" as well.

Ok, as I'm sitting here I'm watching my poor pup scratch more and more and I can hear his tummy making noises. I feel so terrible! I'm making him sick and itchy!!

It's gotta be the food.

meb999
October 20th, 2006, 10:09 PM
patatoes are good if your dog is allergic to grains or wheat. The reason I find them patato-y is that patatoes are the first ingredient (before the meat). that means there's alot more starch than meat. Since dogs are carnivors by nature, it's good to have the first ingredient be a named meat 'meal' (meal = meat with the water conetent removed)

ShaggyRudy
October 20th, 2006, 10:12 PM
Oh, I see what you were saying.

Well, the Pinnacle ingredients start with meat listings.
But the more I'm listening to pup's tummy, the worse I'm feeling :(

Prin
October 20th, 2006, 10:18 PM
You might want to try the Evo RM (red meat). Maybe it's the chicken that he's allergic to.:shrug:

ShaggyRudy
October 20th, 2006, 10:20 PM
Maybe I'll give that a try, Prin.
That's the main reason I wanted to try Pinnacle (no chicken).
You think it's possible it could be affecting pup after only one day of eating it??

Prin
October 20th, 2006, 10:24 PM
If it's a severe allergy, maybe, but usually it takes longer than that.:shrug:

Prin
October 20th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Here's a thread I started in my quest to find poultry-free foods for Boo:
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=30712

ShaggyRudy
October 20th, 2006, 10:32 PM
Thanks! I'll take a look at the thread.
It could be the EVO just getting worse.

How did you pin point poultry as Boo's allergen? Was it process of elimination like I find myself doing now?

Prin
October 20th, 2006, 10:37 PM
Yeah, but lately I've stumbled on a new one I think... But for him it's different. When he gets chicken, he throws up.:rolleyes: But you have the general idea right. If it's one thing, it should be easy enough. If it's several, you might have to get tests.

Scott_B
October 21st, 2006, 06:43 AM
Best way to deal with a suspected food allergy is an elimination diet. Feed a single source protien, like venison or fish. And JUST that food. No treats, no table scraps. nothing but that food to rule out everything. Once the pup stops scratching or doing whatever it is that allerted you to the allergy, start to introduce the old food back. See if you get the same reaction. if o, go back to the allergy food. then try feeding each protien source to narrow it down.

Rosco scratched on reg canidae. Main protiens in that are chicken, turkey, lamb & herring. Hes on Canidae lamb meal & rice now and doing fab. Hes been getting chicken the last 4 days an no scratching. That leaves herring or Turkey he has an allergy to. Once I'm comfortable with the chicken, I'll try some fish, see how he does. And so on.

The other thing to consider, some dogs who cant tollerate a chicken kibble, can eat raw chicken just fine.

Food for thought :thumbs up

ShaggyRudy
October 21st, 2006, 11:19 AM
Thanks Scott!
We're on day two of switching from EVO to Pinnacle Duck & Potatoes.
He was scratching a lot last night. I gave him an antihistimine (sp?) and it helped. He had breakfast this morning and seems ok thus far. By Tuesday or Wed. we should be almost 100% on Pinnacle...so hopefully the scratching will be gone! Like you're suggesting, this Pinnacle Duck & Potatoes has only the one source of protein. The EVO has chicken, turkey, etc.

The only thing about the elimination game is that it just makes me feel SO bad putting the pup through all of this! Oh well, I guess it's for his own good :( I just don't want to get discouraged and end up putting him back on Science Diet to save him from scratching himself raw!

We're heading to Starbucks now. There's a pretty collie that hangs out there on Saturday mornings that Rudy is becoming quite fond of :love:

Prin
October 21st, 2006, 07:35 PM
umm... Maybe I'm neurotic, but I would have switched completely away from poultry. Ever since my Boo, with the chicken intolerance, threw up on duck too, I lean a little more toward switching proteins further than chicken to another bird....:shrug:

ShaggyRudy
October 21st, 2006, 08:43 PM
Prin -
What type/brands do you suggest?
Thanks

Prin
October 21st, 2006, 08:48 PM
The canidae one might be worth a try:
http://www.canidae.com/dogs/lamb-and-rice/dry.html

Here's a thread where I posted my quest to find a poultry-free, wheat/corn-free food for my doggies... (Still don't have a perfect solution yet...)
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=30712

ShaggyRudy
October 21st, 2006, 10:41 PM
How long do you guys think I should wait before switching to a new food? How many days should I let poor Rudy scratch and lick? Do you think the scratching might lessen, or do you think I should get him off of the EVO right away?
I thought I was having good luck with the Pinnacle, but he really doesn't find it very appealing. I just did a little test and held out a handful of Pinnacle - he sniffed it and walked away. I then held out EVO, and he gulped it right down! If I end up switching him off of EVO, looks like I have to find something a little more flavorful :(

Prin
October 21st, 2006, 10:43 PM
Maybe the Evo RM, if you suspect it's the meat. If the scratching is getting worse, switch asap. If it's stable and mild, then maybe wait a bit...

ShaggyRudy
October 21st, 2006, 10:43 PM
Prin,
Canidae is not available in my area...

Prin
October 21st, 2006, 10:43 PM
What about the Evo RM then? If they can get regular Evo, they should be able to get RM...

ShaggyRudy
October 21st, 2006, 10:48 PM
Yeah, I might try the EVO RM...
but now I'm reading the threads about the potential issues with EVO if it's fed over a long period of time...
:eek:
I'm just getting really frustrated!! I hate watching him be so uncomfortable too.
Thanks for trying to help, Prin.

Prin
October 21st, 2006, 10:51 PM
Long term, yeah, but in the short term, it might be good just to get him to stop itching.:shrug:

rainbow
October 22nd, 2006, 12:45 AM
I would try the California Natural Lamb Meal and Rice or the California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato. It's made by the same company as Innova (www.naturapet.com).

Scott_B
October 23rd, 2006, 05:55 AM
Ive been told there is a difference between duck and Chicken protien. I believe the Medical hyperallergenic formula has duck somewhere in their list of ingredients. I really like the Canidae lamb meal & rice.

ShaggyRudy
October 23rd, 2006, 09:02 PM
Thanks for the advice guys.
I can't get Canidae around my area :(

We're trying Natural Balance Venison and Green Peas/dry...wish us luck:fingerscr

rainbow
October 23rd, 2006, 10:11 PM
Good luck....I hope that one works for you. :fingerscr

Prin
October 24th, 2006, 01:44 AM
Good luck! :) :fingerscr