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Raw diet confusion....

dtbmnec
October 19th, 2006, 12:50 PM
HI guys...

Well the raw diet is doing ok....the only thing that hurts right now is the cost....

Between the three boys they are eating about 4 packages of the raw food (ie. the 4 dollar packages of Pork/various meat) each DAY. Its beginning to look like we're going to be spending 100 bucks a week on food for the cats (let alone us!). I know that the RAW diet is supposed to be more expensive...but is it really supposed to be costing us 400 bucks a month?!

On top of it all if we only feed them twice a day they get up on the counters and into the garbage cans and start eating anything that looks edible! If we give them a can of food for lunch (be it canned food or tuna or something) they eat it all and STILL meow for more food....

So am I doing something wrong or what?

Megan

technodoll
October 19th, 2006, 01:00 PM
if you are buying the premade, frozen patties... you need to stop that unless you are financially very well off! :o they cost a fortune for nothing.

if you want to feed them ground stuff... make your own. it's super easy, very cheap, you know exactly what's in it. the initial cost of a good electric grinder is worth it (let me know if you need advice, we LOVE ours and it wasn't expensive at all, works super-great for grinding bones, meat, etc). it might take you a couple of hours to make a big batch & freeze in small containers or bags, but do this on a weekend and after that, mealtimes are a breeze :)

i think at first you have to make few phone calls to the places i sent you a link to, visit a couple of butchers or farms or distributors, settle on a few cases of this or that at reasonable prices (0.50 to MAX $1 per pound) and then you know where to go for your supplies from then on... it's a bit of homework but when you factor in all those long hours and $$ at the vets that you will most probably avoid down the line... :)

i have simple recipes for you if you like, i know your cats don't all eat the same thing so making different batches of food can be fun as well as good for the kitties, they are looking for food all the time because they love it :love: and that's very positive! you are doing a superb job, don't give up, just remember that MOST people spend less $$ on raw than on kibble, it's doable and we are here to help!

:cat:

les
October 19th, 2006, 01:04 PM
WOW 400 a month for 3 cats! LOL Yikes!

I have 2 pretty big dogs (65-70lbs) and I figured out for the first few months it will cost me around $113 per month for both. (And that's not buying beef in bulk - because I have a freezer full of chicken right now)

You really have to buy in bulk and when things are on sale. If you're just going into the grocery store and buying whatever it will be expensive!

If they like chicken (I know you had some issues with them liking different things) then I would really suggest going to the Maple Lodge Farm Factory Outlet. You have to buy in bulk there but it's REALLY cheap - way cheaper then the grocery store. I got chicken backs for 0.50 a lb and nothing (I bought) was over 1.00 lb.

I'm lucky that mine LOVE chicken so that's my main protein source with a few different meals (pork, fish, beef, tripe, lamb) given once per week or so each.

If chicken is no good you should get ahold of some butchers in your area and see what kind of deals on meat you can from them. (I haven't done that yet here so I don't know what's a "good" deal)

That should make things cheaper for you =)

dtbmnec
October 19th, 2006, 01:10 PM
if you are buying the premade, frozen patties... you need to stop that unless you are financially very well off! :o they cost a fortune for nothing.

if you want to feed them ground stuff... make your own. it's super easy, very cheap, you know exactly what's in it. the initial cost of a good electric grinder is worth it (let me know if you need advice, we LOVE ours and it wasn't expensive at all, works super-great for grinding bones, meat, etc). it might take you a couple of hours to make a big batch & freeze in small containers or bags, but do this on a weekend and after that, mealtimes are a breeze :)

i think at first you have to make few phone calls to the places i sent you a link to, visit a couple of butchers or farms or distributors, settle on a few cases of this or that at reasonable prices (0.50 to MAX $1 per pound) and then you know where to go for your supplies from then on... it's a bit of homework but when you factor in all those long hours and $$ at the vets that you will most probably avoid down the line... :)

i have simple recipes for you if you like, i know your cats don't all eat the same thing so making different batches of food can be fun as well as good for the kitties, they are looking for food all the time because they love it :love: and that's very positive! you are doing a superb job, don't give up, just remember that MOST people spend less $$ on raw than on kibble, it's doable and we are here to help!

:cat:

no this is stuff straight from the grocery store...:confused: that's probably why its costing me so much a week...

How much DO you spend on food each week for your dogs/cats? I mean it shouldn't be 100 bucks right? Its supposed to work out to like 30 cents a pound or something...

I do need to make a few phone calls but this week is super busy for me...I have class in an hour till 5 and tomorrow I start work...gah...I need to head down to the farmer's market and find some stuff there but they've got the craziest hours I have EVER seen!

I had read somewhere on one of the websites that I shouldn't feed ground up stuff because of some mineral/vitamine deficiency or something....taurine was it?

How much was your grinder and where did you get it? I got a walmart nearby and a Canadian Tire. Ummm dunno about other stuff...and the recipes would be nice too...

lol Arron's joking around about the cats eating everything "Hey that chair looks like a piece of steak" *pounce*

Megan

dtbmnec
October 19th, 2006, 01:14 PM
WOW 400 a month for 3 cats! LOL Yikes!

I have 2 pretty big dogs (65-70lbs) and I figured out for the first few months it will cost me around $113 per month for both. (And that's not buying beef in bulk - because I have a freezer full of chicken right now)

You really have to buy in bulk and when things are on sale. If you're just going into the grocery store and buying whatever it will be expensive!

If they like chicken (I know you had some issues with them liking different things) then I would really suggest going to the Maple Lodge Farm Factory Outlet. You have to buy in bulk there but it's REALLY cheap - way cheaper then the grocery store. I got chicken backs for 0.50 a lb and nothing (I bought) was over 1.00 lb.

I'm lucky that mine LOVE chicken so that's my main protein source with a few different meals (pork, fish, beef, tripe, lamb) given once per week or so each.

If chicken is no good you should get ahold of some butchers in your area and see what kind of deals on meat you can from them. (I haven't done that yet here so I don't know what's a "good" deal)

That should make things cheaper for you =)

Chicken is out....Pawz is highly allergic...it won't stay down...:yuck: The beef is out too because LEO is allergic to it too...not as gross as Pawz's it was mostly watery kinda thing...gah...

So anything other Chicken and Beef is good :)

I do have to go out and find a butcher....*sigh* it is costing an arm and a leg and well my cats are hungry little buggers....probably have been spoiled rotten with food....

Megan

jiorji
October 19th, 2006, 01:24 PM
it is costing an arm and a leg and well my cats are hungry little buggers....probably have been spoiled rotten with food....

Megan


well if they're always hungry are you sure you're giving them the right amount? Did you ask the vet how much you should give them to even out with the kibbles?

dtbmnec
October 19th, 2006, 01:30 PM
well if they're always hungry are you sure you're giving them the right amount? Did you ask the vet how much you should give them to even out with the kibbles?

No buuuut that's also because when they were on the kibble and wet they ALSO meowed constantly for food....and I mean I gave them a ton of food...usually a scoop or two of dry to last them 24 hours (usually lasted a bit more than that)....and at one point I had the two of them eating a 7oz can of wet....I was told to cut down....so now I'm totally confused lol

I'm hitting the farmer's market for food in a bit and yeah....*sigh*

And now I have to go buy more plates yet again....(*#!*#(#)@_!)%( drying rack....lesson learnt....

Megan

technodoll
October 19th, 2006, 01:32 PM
hmm chicken and beef are the easiest things to find so that sucks... but the good news is TURKEY is now on sale, look in your grocery store flyers and you should find whole frozen turkeys for .99/lbs offered - stock up!... and pork is really easy to find and often on sale... if you can find wild meats, or goat, for cheap... and don't forget the fish :) oh and eggs!!

that's why i have a little chest freezer. hunt for sales & stock up for those "lean months" when meat is unaffordable :thumbs up

ground food is ok for cats, however for teeth cleaning they do need to chew on some form or raw, edible bones.... taurine is present in its natural state in raw meats & organ meats so don't worry about that. if you feed a balanced raw diet, doesn't matter if it's ground or in chunks, the consistency is different but there is no alteration of nutrients :)

here is a link to the grinder we bought (look for it on e-bay from the same seller... we saved $50 by bidding!): http://www.sillypugs.com/ts108.html we LOVE it. however it won't grind hard bones like turkey wings, legs, or pork, beef etc.. just safe for chicken bones because they are soft... but for fish that would be great! and other soft bones.... if you don't grind enough bones, you will have to supplement with crushed eggshell powder (1 tsp per pound of raw ground meat) or a specific calcium supplement for cats...

neat link showing how to use the Tasin for making cat food, + recipes, etc: http://www.catnutrition.org/supplies.html

It costs me, on average, about $1 per LBS of raw food for the doggies... i tend to buy some more expensive cuts like goat and ground beef when on sale (i am so lazy) but offset that with cheap poultry, pork and beef hearts and the like... i use alot of eggs, some canned fish from the dollar store, etc ... also give raw green tripe about once per week, it's $15 (with tax) for 8 patties (4 lbs), they love that.

:dog:

jiorji
October 19th, 2006, 01:35 PM
it's confusing i know, because they could be meowing for other reasons as well...demanding cats. I think sometimes cats act up just to keep their owners on their toes. "when i meow you JUMP! lazy human you should spend your day wondering why i'm unhappy":evil:
sigh.....speaking of...i wonder where MY cats are

good luck at the farmer's market.

dtbmnec
October 19th, 2006, 03:47 PM
hmm chicken and beef are the easiest things to find so that sucks... but the good news is TURKEY is now on sale, look in your grocery store flyers and you should find whole frozen turkeys for .99/lbs offered - stock up!... and pork is really easy to find and often on sale... if you can find wild meats, or goat, for cheap... and don't forget the fish :) oh and eggs!!

that's why i have a little chest freezer. hunt for sales & stock up for those "lean months" when meat is unaffordable :thumbs up

ground food is ok for cats, however for teeth cleaning they do need to chew on some form or raw, edible bones.... taurine is present in its natural state in raw meats & organ meats so don't worry about that. if you feed a balanced raw diet, doesn't matter if it's ground or in chunks, the consistency is different but there is no alteration of nutrients :)

here is a link to the grinder we bought (look for it on e-bay from the same seller... we saved $50 by bidding!): http://www.sillypugs.com/ts108.html we LOVE it. however it won't grind hard bones like turkey wings, legs, or pork, beef etc.. just safe for chicken bones because they are soft... but for fish that would be great! and other soft bones.... if you don't grind enough bones, you will have to supplement with crushed eggshell powder (1 tsp per pound of raw ground meat) or a specific calcium supplement for cats...

neat link showing how to use the Tasin for making cat food, + recipes, etc: http://www.catnutrition.org/supplies.html

It costs me, on average, about $1 per LBS of raw food for the doggies... i tend to buy some more expensive cuts like goat and ground beef when on sale (i am so lazy) but offset that with cheap poultry, pork and beef hearts and the like... i use alot of eggs, some canned fish from the dollar store, etc ... also give raw green tripe about once per week, it's $15 (with tax) for 8 patties (4 lbs), they love that.

:dog:

Well I hit the farmer's market and the prices were a bit high....the cheapest thing I could find was about 2.99/lb for most of the meat there....its a lot cheaper than at the grocery store though.

I did manage to find an awesome deal on pork bits though. For about a pound of the meat/bone was 2 dollars for 5 bags of it. I'm soooo happy! I only bought five for now to make sure they like it.

I also found four Xtra large quails for 7 dollars (it was supposed to be 7.85 but it was the last one ;)).

I also bought myself some ground beef (2.99/lb) too....

I'm trying them on quail and well so far Dart has taken to it...the other two are busy sleeping instead of eating lol. I shall have to try again.

Megan

technodoll
October 19th, 2006, 03:51 PM
megan it will become easy as you scout out places... if you can even get someone to "call down" the list of local butchers, farms, distribution houses, etc and ask for their best prices on meat bits... and fish... mostly stuff humans don't really want (everything grinds up nice, no tough meat for cats), that's most of the work done! i found a place that sells cases of fresh chicken carcasses (backs), 16KG for $8... grinds to look and feel like ground chicken, i mix that with beef hearts ($1 per pound) and it's a super-meal... so you see, shopping can be done :o

good luck, girl! :grouphug:

dtbmnec
November 2nd, 2006, 10:31 AM
Alrighty....

Quail died a glorious death....not a single one of them will touch it now.....*sigh*

Almost all the meat I can find is not as cheap as you guys say probably because I'm close to Toronto. *sigh* This sucks. The last part of the pork bits I got for uber cheap didn't have ANY meat on it. I was NOT happy. It meant I had to go back out to the grocery store and spend massive bucks on meat for the boys. :frustrated: There are only about one or two places in the Farmer's Market that sells stuff that ISN"T beef or chicken so I haven't got much choice in pricing and I have next to no "variety" for the cats either.


I looked up some recipes and they call for a grinder and for bones and stuff...which is fine...if I had the cash to spend on a grinder...and if I could find bone that is small enough to not BREAK the grinder (I can't feed my boys chicken or beef because they're allergic)...but then other people are telling me to NOT grind anything up (on the raw cats yahoo list)...so I'm totally confused...


The edible bone part is confusing me....I mean obviously they can't eat a cow leg or something cuz its waaaaay too big....but what is there that's smaller? I can't give them chicken necks or backs because one of them is allergic and trying to keep the food seperate enough that they don't eat out of each other's dishes/food is one heck of a hassle and results in Dart growling at everything, Leo skulking off somewhere and Pawz waiting until Dart has eaten all his share AND Pawz's let alone trying to get them to eat what they AREN"T allergic to....


So I was thinking about plan B. Plan B is the top recipe from here http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.html but instead of having bone, bringing in eggshells? Instead of a grinder using a food processor. Same price I suppose but at least with the food processor (if I scrounged enough money to get one now) I can use for stuff for ME and the cats (whereas with the grinder it'll be only for the cats to be honest). I know that the recipe calls for non medicated stuff but at this point I don't know if I have the luxury of using it. I will take what I can get for cheaper.

Finding liver and hearts is a pain and the Farmer's Market is the only place I can get anything for a decent price and that's NEVER open when I"M free. The boyfriend hasn't taken much interest at all in this (he's just going along with whatever I say rather than watching/learning) and my couch surfer should be gone soon. So this is going to be an interesting next two months...

So does the food processor/eggshell idea work? Or am I on my own speical form of crack once again?

Megan

P.S. What on this planet is TRIPE? I looked at it at the Market the other day and it was this wierd white stuff....I always imagined it to be green for some reason...

technodoll
November 2nd, 2006, 10:45 AM
green tripe (not for human consumption) can be found in holistic petstores that sell frozen raw diets... The Urban Carnivore makes a great one (that's what i use), here is the information on green tripe:

Prairie-Fed Green Tripe Patties
Green tripe from forage fed ruminant animals supplies enzymes, short-chain fatty acids, long-chain omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids, and the "friendly" lactic acid bacteria. Green tripe generally delivers equal calcium to phosphorus ratio, and is an excellent source of protein, fiber and fat.
Feeding Tip:
Prairie-fed Beef Green Tripe can be fed as a separate meal, or combined with Whole Animal or Prairie-Fed Beef Offal patties every meal, once a day, several times a week or not at all.


where to buy, by province: http://www.urbancarnivore.com/uc_online/pages.cfm?ID=51

you can for sure use crushed eggshells instead of ground bone, to balance the meat dinners :) have you done the round of raw meat suppliers on http://lepusreg.tripod.com/NRS.html? for Ontario you guys are soooo spoiled... i see farms offering ostrich and emu, or free-range turkey (they even grind the bones for you!), duck, rabbit, goat, lamb, pork, etc... all of these have consumable bones (for cats)... if you can make one trip per month and stock up, and it wouldn't cost you a fortune... :highfive:

you can feed canned fish (with the bones) with raw eggs for a meal quite often, it doesn't have to be raw all the time...

if you want to serve soft raw food, it's still better than any kibble. if the cost is bringing you down, you can mix a grainless kibble with some raw ground meat (pork comes to mind) to lower meal costs... and serve recreational bones for the cat's chewing pleasure to scrape their teeth - chop a turkey neck into cat-sized pieces, for example...

i hope some of this helps? courage! you can do it!! :highfive:

dtbmnec
November 2nd, 2006, 12:26 PM
green tripe (not for human consumption) can be found in holistic petstores that sell frozen raw diets... The Urban Carnivore makes a great one (that's what i use), here is the information on green tripe:



where to buy, by province: http://www.urbancarnivore.com/uc_online/pages.cfm?ID=51

you can for sure use crushed eggshells instead of ground bone, to balance the meat dinners :) have you done the round of raw meat suppliers on http://lepusreg.tripod.com/NRS.html? for Ontario you guys are soooo spoiled... i see farms offering ostrich and emu, or free-range turkey (they even grind the bones for you!), duck, rabbit, goat, lamb, pork, etc... all of these have consumable bones (for cats)... if you can make one trip per month and stock up, and it wouldn't cost you a fortune... :highfive:

you can feed canned fish (with the bones) with raw eggs for a meal quite often, it doesn't have to be raw all the time...

if you want to serve soft raw food, it's still better than any kibble. if the cost is bringing you down, you can mix a grainless kibble with some raw ground meat (pork comes to mind) to lower meal costs... and serve recreational bones for the cat's chewing pleasure to scrape their teeth - chop a turkey neck into cat-sized pieces, for example...

i hope some of this helps? courage! you can do it!! :highfive:

Well it is good to know that I"m not completely high on some substance I don't remember using! lol

I've still gotta check out those places on that website (it was being a pain the other day and wouldn't load properly) but I would need to get there by bus (wherever it is located and that could be fun).

Ok so with the bones its more for them scraping and cleaning and the calcium than anything else? So I could still buy the pork doohickyes and toss them the bones once a day kinda deal? They do wonderfully with the whole scraping/cleaning thing on them they just can't eat them. :)

There is light at the end of the tunnel...:) Yay!

Megan

dtbmnec
November 6th, 2006, 03:17 PM
*sigh* trying to keep these guys fed is a real pain now...I haven't enough money coming in to feed me let alone the cats...This could be interesting for the next little while...

On the plus side I emailed the Healthy Pawz since they seemed to have a decent variety of "alternate" foods (ie. No chicken or beef) and we'll see from here.

I think I'm going to have to find a regular cat food for during the day and feed raw at night the way this money thing is going.

I haven't the money for the food processor/blender so I can't make up that recipe I wanted to. *sigh* I had joined the Raw Cat yahoo group but I'm afraid that I can't tell them that I have to go back to cat food because they'll yell at me when I haven't got much choice. Also its severly moderated so if I say I have to go back to Cat food I'll probably be banned (it all but says so on the rules).

If I had more money or could figure out this diet better I would be fine, but I'm spending waaaaay too much money on the cats right now. The continual $40/3 days/3 cats isn't really adding up in my favour much. AND on top of that I'm afraid I'm not feeding it all in the right amounts and so they're going to have some vitamin defieciency and that's why they're always looking for food (even after I've fed them alot of food).

The pork bits I found the last time I bought them had NO meat on it whatso ever so I had to find some other meat to supplement that. Which of course meant heading to the grocery store with their exorbitant prices. I can't get to the Farmer's Market since I'm in school all the days its open and I work weekends now (and usually early enough in the morning that I won't have time to go down and back with food and STILL get to work on time).

I swear its all conspiring against me. *feeling discouraged*

Any suggestions on my "cat food" supplement? I need something without any Beef (liver or otherwise) and without any Chicken (liver or otherwise) or the boys'll toss the cookies some more.

Megan

technodoll
November 6th, 2006, 03:29 PM
oh dear, that's no fun at all :( i could never afford to spend that much on my two dogs and we are DINKs, no wonder you can't do it!! sigh... i'd be frustrated too with the cats' allergies to the cheapest meats, and the scarcity of finding cheap meats at all :frustrated: when you can't create miracles, you create alternatives....

do they like the EVO cat food? perhaps mix that with some canned fish, sometimes give them a raw meal if you can find some well-priced meats... whole pork rib roasts are on sale this week at a grocery chain, $0.99/lbs... i will stock up for the beanies... if you could find something like that, there is a LOT of meat on there and great for chewing pleasure too once the meat is stripped off... could be good for a few meals here and there?

:grouphug: i'm sorry it's hard for you to find affordable meats... and prep material... you've looked on ebay.ca or craigs list or other places for 2nd-hand appliances?...

dtbmnec
November 6th, 2006, 03:54 PM
oh dear, that's no fun at all :( i could never afford to spend that much on my two dogs and we are DINKs, no wonder you can't do it!! sigh... i'd be frustrated too with the cats' allergies to the cheapest meats, and the scarcity of finding cheap meats at all :frustrated: when you can't create miracles, you create alternatives....

do they like the EVO cat food? perhaps mix that with some canned fish, sometimes give them a raw meal if you can find some well-priced meats... whole pork rib roasts are on sale this week at a grocery chain, $0.99/lbs... i will stock up for the beanies... if you could find something like that, there is a LOT of meat on there and great for chewing pleasure too once the meat is stripped off... could be good for a few meals here and there?

:grouphug: i'm sorry it's hard for you to find affordable meats... and prep material... you've looked on ebay.ca or craigs list or other places for 2nd-hand appliances?...

I haven't tried them on EVO....*goes to search online for it*

As to ebayness....I ordered something off there once....my credit card number was stolen....I don't know whether it was stolen from Ebay or from Paypal or what but I don't trust online ordering much anymore....added to which my credit cards are maxed out as it is :o

Haven't heard of Craig's list....I think my mother might have a food blender/processor that she never uses that she might be able to lend me....I'm talking to them tonight....I need money from them anyway lol...*sigh*

The farmer's market is probably the best place to get the food since the grocery stores suck lol. I don't think I've ever seen ANY meat (including chicken and beef) on for under 1/lb. Its probably coming from the fact that I'm close to Toronto where EVERYTHING is uber expensive. Heck even my rent and transportation costs are through the roof!

Megan

technodoll
November 6th, 2006, 06:35 PM
you should maybe take a stroll in toronto's chinatown... they love pork, which is often quite cheap... you never know :fingerscr !!

whatever you choose, your kitties are getting the very best you can give them and that's what matters! :love:

dtbmnec
November 6th, 2006, 09:45 PM
you should maybe take a stroll in toronto's chinatown... they love pork, which is often quite cheap... you never know :fingerscr !!

whatever you choose, your kitties are getting the very best you can give them and that's what matters! :love:

Well I looked at the ingredients on the website and all but the fish formulas have chicken in it. *sigh* and I suppose if I have the choice I still need to feed them kitten food since they are still technically kittens (not yet a year old)....soooooo....its the California Natural stuff I need to get them....foul demons....*sigh*

Why must they be allergic to the cheap stuff? WHY!? *goes off to find head smashing smiley*

I'm also starting to wonder if its the chicken/beef that they're allergic to or the hormone injections and other stuff that goes into the chickens/cows before butchering that they're allergic to....I wonder if I can find some chicken/beef that's "all natural" and see if they still have a reaction to it....maybe when I have more money.

Megan

Melanie_Raymond
March 23rd, 2007, 11:10 AM
Hi guys,

I am looking into buying a grinder like the TS-108 or the Northern tools #168620, but I can't find a Canadian retailer!

I read that someone bought one from Ebay. How much was customs/taxes on it?

Anyone knows of a Canadian retailer to avoid custom/taxes fees?

Thanks,

Melanie

Scott_B
March 23rd, 2007, 11:14 AM
Sorry, cant help ya. You should have almost started a new thread. Anyways, what the deal with the grinder? Unless you have a toothless animal, and even then, I'd try whole foods. I'm sure you have your reasons though.