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Here we go again..

mafiaprincess
October 18th, 2006, 07:14 PM
:sad:
I thought Cider might have seasonal allergies. I don't remember her scratching, and I know she didn't bum bite and crotch link in past.. So I thought it would go away..

Well.. it's not. The glands are fine.. The poop is pretty good on dvp ultra /evo rm/ NV freeze dried.. But, we have ear scratching and they look good and clean.. Paw biting/ cleaning which I always thought was boredom actually.. And her head is constantly up her bum..

So we are going to finish my containers in the kitchen and then we are going to have to try to fix this..

Suggestions when you don't know where to start? Do I pick a wellness or dvp simple solution and see if the issues minimize? I never thought we had a problem.. and only in being more and more in tune with my dog did this moronic owner start to clue in. Argh. :confused:

jesse's mommy
October 18th, 2006, 07:34 PM
I just figured out a couple of weeks ago that Jesse has an intolerance to duck. I finally associated the times she would throw up during the day were the days I was feeding her food with duck in it. She was also licking her paws like crazy and has stopped since I eliminated any Merrick food with duck in it. Could it be something simple like that? I know you've had problems in the past with Cider. I hope you figure it out.

mafiaprincess
October 18th, 2006, 07:48 PM
Most of our issues have been either a refusal to eat the food... but I was letting her boss me around back then so I'd make the food better and better with people stuff..

Or things like wellness screwing up the insoluble fiber and us not touching wellness after 3 months of bad poop to finish that bag...

I sadly can't remember which food caused what.. Like to think back to her behaviour on the wellness whitefish, etc.. I can't remember when she licked paws and when she scratched ears..

I guess I'll stop mxing the foods till this is all gone.. Like feed all dvp till it's gone then all evo rm etc.. Cause then I can look at the ingredients to maybe in the short period of time conclude something..

My fault right now.. since I thought she wasn't allergic to anything she's getting like 10 protein sources etc....

She was overall the best on WK.. but I won't give them anymore of my money..

Prin
October 18th, 2006, 07:56 PM
I guess I'll stop mxing the foods till this is all gone.. Like feed all dvp till it's gone then all evo rm etc.. Cause then I can look at the ingredients to maybe in the short period of time conclude something..
I agree with that. Stick to one or mayyybe two, but not more than that.

What Nature's Variety are you feeding?

mafiaprincess
October 18th, 2006, 08:44 PM
Chicken one was all I could find.. Chicken NV, evo RM, and the dvp ultra one which is alright but I wouldn't pick it again.. I picked it to go with the WK I took back..

It wasn't till tonight when I was thinking about it that I realized we may be having an issue... And that I'm making it possibly worse because I'm mixing foods since I'm not happy with just one.. But, they were only all 5ish pound bags, so it won't be that horrible to feed each one separate till it's gone..

Suggestions on what to try as a single food after all this is gone to try to get this under control?

Wellness whitefish again? Something else?
I feel bad about the ear scratching.. And I think she is doing more than recreationally licking her bum and crotch it's so often.. but I've never had another dog to compare to....

Prin
October 18th, 2006, 09:06 PM
Definitely drop the NV then. There's too much variety in there for an allergy doggy. And see what happens after that.

mafiaprincess
October 18th, 2006, 09:19 PM
Guess I'll start using up the evo.. we have more of it than anythign else, even though it could be months to fully clear her system.. or the allergen could be in the evo, *sigh*

Prin
October 18th, 2006, 09:22 PM
I doubt it. NV has so many different things in it and evo is pretty simple..

mafiaprincess
October 18th, 2006, 09:24 PM
Wish I could remember how she acted on other foods.. To remember if she stopped playing with herself in past for chunks of time or if this has been an issue for like most of 2 years but to varying degrees.. I feel like an idiot.

Prin
October 18th, 2006, 09:34 PM
Nah, you're not an idiot. My doggies both scratch to a certain degree and when it gets bad I wonder if I'm a bad mom because I can't figure out when it started or if I just neglected them all the time I thought they were scratching "normal" amounts...

Allergy crap is hard and it comes and goes in waves too sometimes.:rolleyes:

mafiaprincess
October 18th, 2006, 11:41 PM
What do you think is a 'normal' amount of ear scratching? She's on revolution, has no fleas.. But is sitting down at horrible times lately to itch... think 2 days ago she stopped in the middle of a road to itch her ear... I thought my head was going to pop off...

And how to differentiate between 'I lick myself because it feels good, and I clean myself cause it makes the itchies better...'

Prin
October 18th, 2006, 11:44 PM
How long does she scratch? A couple scratches is ok, but a minute long scratch is too much... Unless it's only once a day... Hard to say.:shrug:

Lissa
October 19th, 2006, 11:25 AM
And how to differentiate between 'I lick myself because it feels good, and I clean myself cause it makes the itchies better...'

:D I can tell when Dodger is licking/itching out of ridiculousness because he uses it like a calming signal (distraction)... When he's really scratching its about relieving the itch as quickly as possible...although the licking is tough since he enjoys his p-p area:o
My advice :evil: take note of the rest of Cider's body language and what was happening at the time...If you were leaning over her or staring, I think she might be using it is a calming signal...
I do think that because she is so high-energy and its virtually impossible to completely tire her out, that part of it is boredom and habit...(of course I don't have an allergy dog so its easy for me to say that:o )
Since she has so many food and gland issues, I still think the best diet would be raw or homecooked...Maybe after this year of patrolling:fingerscr you can try it during the summer when you hopefully have more time!

mafiaprincess
October 19th, 2006, 11:37 AM
She used to paw chew and it became ocd.. I don't actually think there was an allergy problem at that time.. so like a year ago.. Think we were on wellness whitefish. We had to hold her paws when she went to chew.. and we weaned her off it. She still does it sometimes, and it still seems to be boredom rather than itchie toes..

Most ear scratching is a quick drop and like a few seconds of scratching, but some days she really gets into it..

The licking could be itchy crotch or bum.. or it could be cause it feels good.. I'm not really sure how to tell which.. I often just pull her head away cause it does happen a lot..

Bugs me that all our past food issues were easier to deal with.. loose poop or a dislike for food.. Easier than potentially having an issue with an ingredient :frustrated:

Prin
October 19th, 2006, 12:24 PM
When Boo had anal gland itchies, he tore himself up to get at them. See his lip?

You'll see some sort of effect like this after a couple of days, IMO... Maybe not the lip, but somewhere...

mafiaprincess
October 19th, 2006, 12:30 PM
When it was true gland issues last time her head was constantly buried in her butt.. Like but the end when I knew I needed a vet appt, she was so into it I had issues even pulling her head away.. She no longer would look up when you called her.. You had to pry the head from bum..

I haven't seen one itch of the ear in like a day... Allergies don't just poof.. I don't know if she's too tired to scratch since we played long and hard last night.. But so far that is 2 meals of evo rm and nothing else.

Prin
October 19th, 2006, 12:36 PM
Be careful because you could end up with an ear infection faker if you keep giving her attention when she scratches (i.e. you'll end up with Jemma...:rolleyes: ).

mafiaprincess
October 19th, 2006, 12:45 PM
How does she fake ear issues?

I don't really give attention to ear scratches unless they take forever and I just stop them..

Prin
October 19th, 2006, 12:48 PM
Yeah, she does. She gets real ones all the time, but fakes them too. So we're just always in her ears.:rolleyes: I actually brought her to the vet because she was scratching so bad once and he looked in and there was nothing.:frustrated:

mummummum
October 23rd, 2006, 01:23 AM
We've been through one bag of Timberwolf Ocean Blue and have just opened a bag of the Elk and Salmon. I've already noticed a HUGE difference in their coats (shedding and matting less, not as much flakey skin) ~ no more scratching every ten seconds in Bridie & Ceili or murgy ears in Declan. AND EVERYBODY LIKES IT!!!!! I know we've tried every fish food in the stores including the Fromm's Whitefish. Nobody wanted to eat it and even with "additions" they didn't seem to be thriving on it. Have you thought about switching to TO Mafiaprincess ~ I'm impressed so far.

mafiaprincess
October 23rd, 2006, 10:42 AM
I have, but like everyone else can't get any..
I can't start making treks out to Toronto for dog food for fear I buy a large enough amount to last and she has an issue with it..

Along with TO's apparent crappy customer service, and now hearing about the one story of the wrong kibble in the right bag.. I'd like to try them, but I can't get it anywhere close enough. My global used to carry it before I ever had a dog.. They hated the customer service they got, and there wasn't enough demand for it.

Prin
October 23rd, 2006, 03:15 PM
now hearing about the one story of the wrong kibble in the right bag.. Yeah, I heard that too, probably from the same person. If you buy it in a store and that happens, that's not so bad, (I mean aside from the poor quality control), but if you have to have it shipped and all that... That's not going to be fun at all.

mafiaprincess
October 23rd, 2006, 04:04 PM
Worst is if you haven't had the kibble before and don't know the difference...

rainbow
October 23rd, 2006, 06:22 PM
Yeah, I heard that too, probably from the same person. If you buy it in a store and that happens, that's not so bad, (I mean aside from the poor quality control), but if you have to have it shipped and all that... That's not going to be fun at all.

Didn't someone here post the thing about the wrong kibble in the bag? :confused:

Timberwolf was being manufactured at one of the Diamond plants....don't know if that's changed or not. :shrug:

Prin
October 23rd, 2006, 07:51 PM
me.:D I posted before about hearing that somebody had the wrong kibbs in the right bag.

Do you really think Diamond cares if they screw up a bag of some other guy's food here and there? :shrug:

toby's tracy
November 14th, 2006, 08:50 PM
This is an old thread, but I just returned from our vet and he told me something interesting about protein and allergies - I'm including it here instead of starting a new thread because it was in response to a question about dog food and allergies, in particular Innova Evo (turkey).

He told me that too much protein in a dog's diet can do 2 things, both of which are issues that Toby is dealing with right now:

1- exacerbate allergies
2- bring on diarrhea due to him not being able to absorb all of the protein, so the extra that is being passed through him is actually feeding some nasty bacteria in his colon

He quickly said that this doesn't mean it is a bad food, just bad for Toby. But this may have something to do with Cider's allergies. What do you think?

technodoll
November 16th, 2006, 06:34 PM
He told me that too much protein in a dog's diet can do 2 things, both of which are issues that Toby is dealing with right now:

1- exacerbate allergies
2- bring on diarrhea due to him not being able to absorb all of the protein, so the extra that is being passed through him is actually feeding some nasty bacteria in his colon

just to clarify, this is cooked protein we are talking about here right? the kind found in kibble? and is this MEAT protein or PLANT protein?.. :confused:

Hunter's_owner
November 16th, 2006, 06:44 PM
I'm not sure if I can type this clearly, but I will try.

Allergies are due to a protein of some kind.
Pollen is a protein, eggs=protein, peanut=protein. That is why they are so commonly associated with allergies. But they are all different proteins. An allergy is due to your body having a reaction to a specific protein that is entering your body. Therefore having an excess of a protein won't cause an allergy if there isn't one already there, and often an allergy will occur to a very small amount of a protein just as well as a large amount.
So in that food, the only way your dog is having a reaction to that protein is if he is allergic to it, and it doesn't have to do with the amount of the protein, just the presence of it.

I hope I explained that okay...:confused:

As for the bacteria feeding off the extra protein, I'm not sure about that...

technodoll
November 16th, 2006, 06:51 PM
I hope I explained that okay...

you did more than okay, that was excellent! thank you! :thumbs up

Hunter's_owner
November 16th, 2006, 07:05 PM
:o Ah gee, lol, Thanks. I guess all that biology/organic chem background is useful after all. I do know more about it, but it has been awhile, and it is a little fuzzy (brain is tired:rolleyes: lol)

Prin
November 16th, 2006, 08:33 PM
There's another way that the protein can affect allergies though- if it really is hard on the body to digest so much protein, the body will be working harder at that and will lack the resources and energy to fight off infections or tolerate allergens. They might not be allergic to the meat protein itself, but the weakening of the system might affect other systems.:shrug:

HO, you were being simplistic about the protein right? ;) Because even if you're allergic to say, eggs, you might only be allergic to one type of protein in the eggs, when there are many, many different proteins in an egg.

Hunter's_owner
November 16th, 2006, 08:48 PM
Yes, very simplistic. I figured you, with your biology background would want to add more:thumbs up