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Housetraining: Almost back to square one!

ByronsMum
October 18th, 2006, 06:21 AM
All of a sudden, for the past week and a bit, Byron has been drinking an unusually large amount of water at a time, and then peeing it all over the house in half an hour...no warnings, nada...just pees while he is walking (as if he didn't know he had to). Then if you catch him in the act, as we sometimes do, startle him, and then take him outside to finish, half an hour later, the saaame thing happens! :frustrated: We had been doing SO well with his training! We were going days at a time with no accidents in the house, and how we are back to three-four accidents a day! :confused: I am really worried...

I should mention that we had new kitchen cabinets put in on the day that this began, and we first attributed it to the change in smells...but it has been over a week now!

His behaviour has not changed and neither has his appetite, so I don't really know what to think of this or what to do!!!:frustrated:

Any advice would be welcome.

BMDLuver
October 18th, 2006, 07:37 AM
I would definitely take Byron in to the vet for a check. There's something off for sure when they go backwards. I'm sorry I don't recall his age or if he's neutered yet?

ByronsMum
October 18th, 2006, 07:46 AM
I would definitely take Byron in to the vet for a check. There's something off for sure when they go backwards. I'm sorry I don't recall his age or if he's neutered yet?

He is 4 months old and will be neutered just before 6 mos. He is going to the vet's tomorrow....Hope nothing is seriously wrong... :fingerscr

BMDLuver
October 18th, 2006, 07:56 AM
Sometimes there are prostate issues if not neutered, even in a young dog. This normally clears with neutering. However, a vet visit is a good idea to check to see what's going on. It may just be that's he's going through a phase at that age too. My Berner guy went through stages of being clean then a disaster then back to clean again.

ByronsMum
October 18th, 2006, 08:08 AM
Would there be any other signs (other than incontinence) that could signify a prostate problem?

jessi76
October 18th, 2006, 08:16 AM
All of a sudden, for the past week and a bit, Byron has been drinking an unusually large amount of water at a time, and then peeing it all over the house in half an hour...no warnings, nada...just pees while he is walking (as if he didn't know he had to).

drinking unusual amounts of water and having accidents definately warrants a vet check in my book.. glad you have an apt - and do keep us posted about your pup! sorry I don't have much to add except wishing you & Byron the best!

jawert1
October 18th, 2006, 08:28 AM
Hey ByronsMum, when you go to the vet, please have them check his thyroid levels and take a sample of his urine with you (old pill bottles work well for this if he isn't pee-shy) and have them test the acidity/baseness of it. My Simon went through this, and periodically for no known reason still does. They'll need to also test him for diabetes (melitus), kidney/liver function levels, and for crystals in the urine. Post his results when you get them, you can also do a search on some of my old threads which has the whole 9 yards we went through :) Good luck, I hope it's something easily treatable :pawprint:

hazelrunpack
October 18th, 2006, 08:39 AM
Would there be any other signs (other than incontinence) that could signify a prostate problem?

We had a male puppy with prostate problems. He had a lot of trouble with 'accidents' in the house and the initial vet result (from a urinalysis showing blood, crystals, and bacteria) was that he had a bladder infection. However, eventually he had so much pain from the prostate inflammation that he didn't want to walk or even stand and I had to take him to the vet on an emergency follow-up. It was very scary and I felt so bad that he hadn't been diagnosed sooner--it's just something that is more common in older unneutered males so the vet didn't suspect anything beyond the UTI. Neutering is a 100% cure, so if Byron is neutered this won't be what's ailing him.

What would be more worrisome to me than the 'accidents' is the increased water uptake. I'm glad you've got an appointment! Keep us posted!

Oh--and empty washed film cannisters make excellent urine sample transport devices. :) (Finally found a use for all those cute little cannisters I've been collecting!)

ByronsMum
October 18th, 2006, 08:39 AM
Thanks for the info jawert...I like going to the vet with SOME information of what it could be and what tests should be run. I will keep you posted with the results. :fingerscr

vfrohloff
October 18th, 2006, 08:47 AM
Sounds almost certainly like a medical problem, not a behavioral one. My dog had these same symptoms and it turned out he had pancreatitis and bloat, both at the same time. Let us know how it goes at the vet!

mafiaprincess
October 19th, 2006, 01:03 PM
When Cider had a uti she would walk and pee like she didn't get the signal she was going to have to go.

How did your vet appointment go?

ByronsMum
October 19th, 2006, 01:28 PM
How did your vet appointment go?

Well, we need to re-take the pee sample, cus the one we took with us was too stale (since we were overzealous and took it last night...)

Sidenote: Hubby rigged up what he dubbed "the pee catcher": an empty pill container, some packing tape and a fish tank clamp that has a long handle and stem. I think he was very clever! :D No muss, no fuss!

On the other hand, we discovered that he has a yeast infection in his ears and we got meds for that.

So we still need to wait and see what the results of tomorrow's "pee test" will show. Guess we will have to use "the pee catcher" once more!

Will keep you all posted.

Hunter's_owner
October 19th, 2006, 01:34 PM
Very creative with the design of the "pee catcher". I hope I never need to do that, but if I do, I will definetly steal your idea (no patent yet right ;) ).
Hope all goes well with teh test results :fingerscr .
As for the yeast infection, Hunter is a real expert in getting those :rolleyes: . Hopefully Byron won't have too much of a problem with that.

ByronsMum
October 20th, 2006, 07:40 PM
Well, we are at a loss....

The urinalisis results showed nothing out of the ordinary. And they did a complete one to boot! :confused: And then we came home tonight, let him out of his crate, took him outside for a pee (which he did), came inside and then half an hour later, he peed on the floor again...cleaned it up....then ten minutes later, he peed AGAIN!!

The vet did ask us to measure the amount of water that we give him at a time and to see how much his total consumption of the day is. So we are going to be doing that for the next week or so and then let her know. She will then tell us if the amount is normal for his age/weight, etc...

When the vet checked him out yesterday, she said he was at a good weight and his body conditioning was ideal. Aside from this peeing thing, he is happy and healthy (except for the yeast infection!). We have been taking him outside even MORE often than before to try and avoid the accidents inside, but he STILL will pee on the floor with no warning at all....So hubby and I are at a loss....:sad:

I have no idea what to do now... :frustrated:

jawert1
October 20th, 2006, 07:48 PM
Ah ByronsMum, I've been where you are, just last fall to be exact. The only thing they found was that periodically, Simon's urine becomes extremely dilute - like the kidneys are failing but without any other symptoms or indicators of kidney failure occurring. Our vet had me monitor his water intake very very carefully and keep a spreadsheet count of how many mililiters of water he got daily (I kept measurements by the bowl, but I'm -putting it nicely- anal about such things). Essentially the water measurement at home is your first test, next step is to have them do an ACTH test on him at the vet's office. This is a timed water deprivation test, which your vet can explain in better terms than I can. This will rule out thyroid problems that don't show up on a normal panel, and also can lead to any of 2 rare diagnoses (diabetes insipidus and pyschogenic polydipsia) and some not so rare (Cushings and Addisons). I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but stock up on Natures Miracle, keep taking him out a LOT, watch his water intake (especially times - like is he bored, did he just wake, is he overexerting himself). Lastly, he may have an immature urethra and basically be wetting the bed because he cannot control the urge. This will require the same meds that a child would be put on. Good luck, PM me if you need support, I've done this dance before :)

ByronsMum
October 20th, 2006, 08:34 PM
(sigh) Thanks jawert for the info. It at least has given me somewhere to start looking. I am ruling out diabetes insipidus because his pee DOES get concentrated after extended periods of time in his crate (as opposed to when he can roam around freely while we are at home and drink water whenever he wants). As for the others, I suppose time and more tests will tell...

But could any of these conditions occur overnight?? I mean, he was doing excellent on the housetraining until the day after we installed the new kitchen cabinets!

jawert1
October 20th, 2006, 09:50 PM
I know in Simon's case, I noticed that one day he was peeing normally, the next he was going a LOT when we'd go outside (like stop once, go a lot, stop again, go a lot more, stop again, go more), then he'd be fine again for a few days and then wham, he started peeing in front of me inside. Then we'd go for a few days with nothing, then the cycle would start over again. He'd be on antibiotics for 10 days, which sorta improved (or maybe just my hope that it did), and back to square one. His urine flipflops between being normally concentrated to being extremely dilute with low pH levels, but no evidence of crystals or hormone flushes.

ByronsMum
October 22nd, 2006, 01:48 PM
Well, I don't know...Byron has not peed on the floor at all this weekend (knock on wood). He has gone out and peed at his usual times too. His water consumption is at 6 cups/day. Not sure if that is normal for his weight. We will be calling the vet tomorrow to let her know of the total. But so far, knock on wood, he has been pretty good. :fingerscr :fingerscr :fingerscr

Prin
October 22nd, 2006, 02:22 PM
6 cups a day! I'm not sure if that's normal or not, but it's making my doggies' binge drinking seem like sipping...:o

Boo let loose a few times when he was younger and my vet gave us propalin for a bit to see if that helps. It strengthens the bladder muscles.:shrug:

I like Jawert's advice better though.;)

ByronsMum
October 23rd, 2006, 08:40 PM
I am noticing a trend....Byron didn't pee inside at all this weekend, when both hubby and I were at home all day. But then during the week, when I am at work all day, and hubby may or may not be working at home, he pees inside at night when we are both there. Could this be a lack of bladder control due to the fact that we "changed" the routine from the weekend? He should be used to this by now, seeing as we have had him for a couple months now....but I don't know.

Hubby tried calling the vet today to let her know of the amount of water he is drinking/day, only to discover that she had gone home. They took the info down at the vet's and told us that they would call her at home and let her know.

And jawert, like Simon, Byron's pee is ranging from concentrated to very watery and clear.

All I hope is that nothing is seriously wrong... :fingerscr :fingerscr :fingerscr We will see....

jawert1
October 24th, 2006, 03:50 PM
Just keep track of his water intake, the vet should have given you a form in which the ml per weight is listed (recommended of course). As for it being a break in routine, if you and your hubby are faithful about taking him out every few hours, then there shouldn't be an overnight accident. Simon only peed at night (in his sleep at times) when his urine was extremely dilute and high volume, regardless of his water intake - even now he tells me when he needs to go, even at night and I've learned to react (much like the 2am vomiting we all know and love) very quickly. Keep on your vet, if you aren't getting answers or further suggestions from them, go to another one or hit up any nearby vet teaching college. Don't let them brush you off as I think you'll be looking at the same tests I did, ACTH, food/environmental allergies and the like. I am happy to tell you though that Simon is fine and happy, and only occasionally has odd episodes like that, which 99.9% of the time result in me getting him out before an accident happens (we're talking like 2 in the last 10 mos.).

Prin
October 24th, 2006, 03:53 PM
I measured, and since my doggies started drinking a ton more than usual with the evo and fish oil, they drink about 6 cups a day each... Makes me wonder if they just weren't drinking enough before.:shrug:

ByronsMum
October 24th, 2006, 09:13 PM
I am happy to tell you though that Simon is fine and happy, and only occasionally has odd episodes like that, which 99.9% of the time result in me getting him out before an accident happens (we're talking like 2 in the last 10 mos.).

That is wonderful to hear jawert. Really it is. Gives me hope that this is something treatable/manageable. Thanks for all your info! Will keep all posted. :thumbs up