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rescue vs breeder: behaviour/health issues?

TMac
October 16th, 2006, 09:06 PM
ok, here is question to ponder... On average, are rescue dogs more likely to end up with behaviour problems and health issues than one from a reputable breeder?

Another question - is there such a thing as rescue fatigue? What I mean is, has anyone just been worn down with behaviours, illnesses (and the associated costs, both emotional and financial) etc from adopting only rescued dogs and has turned to going the breeder route instead?

I'm interested in people's opinions on this. I am very pro-rescue but the more rescue people I meet the more I wonder if adopting rescue dogs with 'issues' is not something one can do over and over???

What do you think?

Frenchy
October 16th, 2006, 09:20 PM
Rescue dogs don't have anymore issues than the breeder's ones. As a matter a fact,I think you know more about the dog when adopting from a rescue. The foster parent gets to know the dog before the dog can be put up for adoption, and the foster parents won't let the dog go to someone who doesn't fit the dog's profile. With rescues,it's not about the money,it's about finding the best forever home for the dog. So they make sure they find the perfect match. As for health issue,I think any dog can have them,if they come from a breeder or from a rescue.The breeders usually give a 2 year "warranty" but many dogs have health issue after those 2 years...I only have good and positive things so say about rescue dogs. I adopted 3 of them :thumbs up They are the BEST dogs.:dog:

TMac
October 16th, 2006, 09:26 PM
thanks Frenchy. I'd be interested to hear even more stories. I myself have adopted 2 rescues but never from a breeder so I'm curious to see what people think the differences are.

Frenchy
October 16th, 2006, 09:29 PM
breeder bad , rescue good . :D just kidding. Or maybe not :p

meb999
October 16th, 2006, 09:35 PM
everything Frenchy said :D

I hesitated a looonnng time before deciding to rescue. I don't regret it for a minute. A reputable rescue will bend over backwards to find a great home for each dog. I know that rescues ask alot of questions, but they do it so they can match you up with your perfect match.

I really lucked out with BRQ, they were there for me every step of the way. I fostered Buster for a few months before we adopted him. He had pretty serious seperation anxiety. At the begining I used to call BRQ almost everyday. They never got annoyed, and they always had helpfull hints.

With their help, we worked through Buster's seperation anxiety (which is probably one of the most common behavioral issues with rescues....but it's easy to work through, with a little patience---ok with alot of patience!!) and he's the best dog in the world. All my friends tell me they want a little Buster.

There are just too many good dogs getting put down every day, through NO FAULT of their own. I could never get a dog from a breeder, even the most reputable breeder in the world.....not after such a wonderfull experience with my little rescue!

jawert1
October 16th, 2006, 09:36 PM
I grew up with a mix of breeder bought and rescue dogs, and neither had more or less issues than the other. Currently I have 2 rescue dogs - one "purebred" (english pointer) and one mixed breed (shepherd/chow), and truthfully, I know more about my dogs having them come from a rescue than I knew what to even expect from my late Springer Spaniel (breeder bought). Simon (pointer) HATES cats (like unnaturally so) and midsized kids (ages 7-12) but gets along with most every dog we see. Peaches LOVES cats and kids of any age, gets along well with other dogs off leash, but put her on leash and she's just scared and extremely aggressive. My late Springer Lady Rootbeer was a gorgeous dog, loved cats, kids, other dogs, everything - except rabbits and birds which she hunted on her own (no hunters in my family). I think it takes very special and patient people to do rescue and foster work, and I'm sure as with everything else, folks get burnt out.

hazelrunpack
October 16th, 2006, 09:43 PM
We've had pure-breds from breeders that have had terrible health problems. I agree, Frenchy--it's something that can unfortunately happen to any dog.:sad:

breeders usually give a 2 year "warranty" but many dogs have health issue after those 2 years...

We've had those warranties, too, but never had the heart to give the puppy back to the breeder where it likely would be put down. :sad: We've loved all our dogs, health problems and all, breeder-bought or rescue...and once here, they're here to stay.

Now, do I believe that there might be such a thing as 'rescue fatigue'? Our Evan, not a rescue, had a number of health issues. When he died at the age of 3 from inflammatory bowel disease we were heartbroken, and nearly exhausted from the constant care he required. Our other dog at the time, a springer, pulled us through the grieving, but were unable to face getting another setter for a long time. So, yes, I believe that there can be such a thing as 'rescue fatique', but maybe that's not a good term for it since it isn't something that happens just with rescued animals.

Anyone can suffer from the stress of caring for hurt or sick animals--or hurt or sick people, for that matter. And sometimes that means knowing when it's time to take a break from something you love...

Prin
October 16th, 2006, 10:17 PM
I've only had second-hand doggies from the day I was born. I don't get tired of it. With every chronic ear infection, spay incontinence leak, all night puke-fest, and unexplainable limp, I think to myself, how many people out there would have given this dog up for any one of those? Obviously at least one, which is how I ended up with them.

And they are so appreciative all the time. :love:

And while I really do want a newf or a dobie or a dane from a breeder one day, I know deep down that that day will never come. I can't bring a new dog on the market, when so many beautiful second-hand souls are waiting for me, and the second chance at a good life that I bring.

I might have missed Jemma and Boo as tiny babies, but I am so glad I didn't miss them completely. Same with my dobies, my lab and my newf. I am who I am because of the dogs I have had, and striving to give them all a better life has made me a better, more compassionate person.

I love my rescue doggies.:love: :cloud9:

susieqt
October 16th, 2006, 10:21 PM
I have adopted all of my dogs through rescue during the last 15 years; 6 dogs in all, and have fostered quite a few in between. I have not had a problem with any of them.....o.k., maybe one, a little mix Maltese who can be a little terror, but I think that is more my fault than anything else as I spoil her too much.

The bottom line is that most dogs are at shelters through no fault of their own and most of them make very good pets.

I myself could never get a dog from a breeder knowing that there are so many out there literally dying for a good home, but that is just my personal opinion.

My bumper sticker says: "Don't breed or buy while pets at shelters die".

technodoll
October 16th, 2006, 10:34 PM
all 4 of my dogs have come from breeders (two reputable CKC breeders who test and show their dogs, and one "back yard breeder" who should never have bred their bitch but they did anyways :frustrated: )... i have never adopted a dog from a shelter and have known all my dogs since they were young puppies. i wouldn't trade that experience for the world... you know your dogs intimately and have been through *everything* with them, they are like your own flesh and blood. no surprises, so to speak. :)

however, even if you carefully choose your breeder, the parents are screened and cleared of health defects, have excellent temperaments, they have CH titles and all... it does not guarantee that your cute little puppy will grow up to be like them. like they say "life is like a box of chocolates" and you can never know how a dog will turn out in temperament and in health. it HELPS to buy a purebred from a reputable breeder because it gives you some solid guidelines on what to expect in terms of physical attributes when the dog is older, temperament, drive, etc but... every being is unique!

i guess when you adopt a rescue, you can "shop" around for specific temperaments, physical attributes, etc... the dog is there, older, formed, has been fostered and you know its likes and dislikes from the get-go. puppies are, well... unpredicable little bundles of joy... you can only hope the genetics AND your good parenting comes through! :dog:

Prin
October 16th, 2006, 10:35 PM
Awesome bumper sticker. Never heard that version before.:highfive:

TMac
October 16th, 2006, 10:37 PM
I think to myself, how many people out there would have given this dog up for any one of those? Obviously at least one, which is how I ended up with them.


So, for health stuff you are throwing the dice either way (breeder or rescue) as to whether something new will develop. But, because its a rescue there are more dogs coming in that have behaviour or special health needs and at least you'd know about it (hopefully) up front. Sometimes I worry about rescues that don't have enough help and time to assess the dogs thoroughly before adopting out - so I imagine you could still have some surprises there.

wdawson
October 16th, 2006, 10:50 PM
my thoughts are....go to a rescue.....if a dog finds a forever home with you you accept all the good and bad....cause you can get the bad from a REPUTABLE BREEDER also......and even if you have a health warranty......are you really gonna take the pup\dog back after you have a bond ?

Prin
October 16th, 2006, 10:55 PM
The way I see it, second-hand dogs are like used cars. The original owner could have done all the proper maintenance and "health checks" and kept everything in proper working order, or they could have let it go.

Like with Boo. He was NOT healthy when we got him, but that's most likely because he didn't get the care he needed, not because of bad genetics. His fur was thin, he had open wounds, his eyes were faded... If the original person had fed him good food and cared for him like I do, he would NEVER have gotten to that state. But he wasn't maintained. So all the money the first person didn't spend on him, I did.

But then there's my old dobie. He was a champion show dog in his past life, and was left behind during a move. He was healthy as heck when we got him, because he had been well cared for. He was just very afraid of thunderstorms because of being left chained up alone outside for so long (after they moved). He ended up with Wobblers, a disease that they are now trying very hard to eliminate from lines with genetic tests, and he had a heart that was too small for his body (another genetic defect).

And then my yellow lab. She was a breeder reject (runt), that was passed around until she made it to our house. She needed knee surgeries from being attacked by her mother (mother tried to kill her), had a leg shorter than the other as a result and got premature arthritis from it all. She had chronic ear infections to the point where her whole body stank and there was nothing we could do about it. She had crazy temperment problems (could not meet any other dog without trying to kill it).

And our Newf. We inherited her after a friend of the family died. She was 6 when we got her and lived till 16 with no trouble at all. She was originally a rescue too and had no real health issues ever.

Anyway, without getting into the history of everything (too late), you just never know. Breeder or not, dogs are just like humans, where health is part genetic and part diet and part every day maintenance. You could have a champion, genetic tested, superdog, but feed it crap and never exercise it and it'll likely die from a list of problems before its 10th birthday. Get a mutt with unknown history and feed it the best and do everything in your power to keep it healthy, including going to the vet as soon as things happen and not waiting for them to get "bad enough" and you can have a dog that lives 16 years.:shrug:

Prin
October 16th, 2006, 10:57 PM
Sometimes I worry about rescues that don't have enough help and time to assess the dogs thoroughly before adopting out - so I imagine you could still have some surprises there.That can happen, for sure. But IMO, unless you have small children, or other pets, surprises are manageable. With kids and other pets, you really have to know that the rescue you're dealing with is a good one.

hazelrunpack
October 16th, 2006, 11:05 PM
But IMO, unless you have small children, or other pets, surprises are manageable. With kids and other pets, you really have to know that the rescue you're dealing with is a good one.

And sometimes you just luck out. :) We inherited a 5-yr-old springer when her first daddy died. At the time we were struggling with a dog that had an agression problem. The springer took over immediately, kept the problem dog in line with great canine grace, and kept him in line for the rest of his life. Being a dog, Priscilla had much more skill in reading Gauge's body language than we did--long before we could pick up signals that he was lapsing, she'd have him reminded that he was way down in the pack and better mind his p's and q's. Although we had met Priscilla prior to adopting her, we never would have thought that she was exactly what Gauge needed! :D

Prin
October 16th, 2006, 11:06 PM
That's true too... I mean, my dad never screened our doggies before bringing them home and they all worked out great.:shrug:

hazelrunpack
October 16th, 2006, 11:11 PM
On the other hand, the sibs and I used to fight all the time... You've got it right, Prin, if we were dogs we'd have it all figured out already...:D

mummummum
October 16th, 2006, 11:11 PM
The only reason I would go to a breeder would be if I was interested in showing or breeding myself.

And as everyone else has said ~ there are simply no guarantees with health issues. I had a papered dobie who never had a sick day in his life. I've now got a kermuttski who I wonder if she'll ever have a well-day whereas her litter mate sister has zero physical problems. Both my grrrls are rescues.

Declan was considered unadoptable and had already been returned once to the shelter where he stayed for another 6 months (bless them, bless them, bless them) until he came home to me 1 week before his "kill date". In all truth, any behaviour issues he had/ has are a result of willful ignorance, neglect and laziness on the part of his previous "owners". He is one of the most intelligent, intuitive and generous souls I have ever met. And I'm not just saying that because I'm his Mum!

And I couldn't agree more with Prin (thank you for that Prin, you put it beautifully) ~ my dogs have "rescued" me.

OntarioGreys
October 17th, 2006, 11:10 AM
A purebred does not mean well bred, puppymills and byb's usually breed purebreds they too provide registration papers saying they are purebreds

A good breeder breeds for genetic health and guarantees their dogs and has documentation to prove health screening, their dogs are to be returned to them if the buyer no longer wants, if a rescue get a dog along with it's papers they should be contacting the breeding who is named on those papers, because the good breeder can go after the person legally for breech of contract.

A byb breeder or puppymill is in it for the money they don't care about genetic testing so yes you can have purebreds with health problems. Diet and care especially during puppyhood can affect health it is also possible to ruin the health of a well bred pup.
Many of the dogs that rescues would get are byb and puppymill bred dogs simply because they not longer want to assume responsibility for the dogs after they are sold.

So health can make a difference depending who you get the purebred from, though non genetic health problems occur in any dog.

I have greyhounds they are professionally bred but not to AKC standard, they are bred for function there is a seperate registry and they are referred to as NGA bred greyhounds they come in a greater size range and 3 different body types because they are bred for function and only top dogs are bred they have less genetic problems than the AKC bred for example heart disease, or a bone disease that cause the bones to become very brittle The one problem that is showing up in NGA greys is von willebrands a blood clotting disorder.
THe AKC breed population is very small in North America therefore the genetic problems, they are having to introduce NGA bloodlines into the breeding programs as a result. So for a greyhound I would go thru a rescue to adopt NGA grey rather than going thru an AKC breeders since the population is larger to produce a genetically healthier breed.

For my chinese crested though I went thru a breeder, mainly because there are many byb's and mills now breeding them to cash in on the big price for them as a rare breed and they do have genetic health problems that I wanted to avoid like patella, Legg-Calve-Perthes which can be quite expensive to correct and Progressive retinal atrophy which can lead to blindness and deafness, as well as being born with closed ear canals or teeth deformities.


Going thru a good breeder can protect you from dealing with some of the more serious genetic health problems , for me having the guarantee is like an insurance policy that I will not have to spend $6000 on knee surgeries, if I went thru a rescue they may not have any background on who bred the dog so there are guarantees so it becomes more of a gamble of what you have face in the future

Rottielover
October 17th, 2006, 12:44 PM
I am not one to discuss this, but I will give you what I have been through....2 rescues, and 1 purebred breeder. Ok first rescue, major fear aggression, no amount of training worked...Years gone, thousands of dollars gone. BUT it was worth every penny to try and save him from his demons....No luck, he was finally put down, aggression was too gone for any amount of training. Still miss my big baby bear.
2nd one, an spca rescue. Was inlove when I met her, she seemed fine, all healthy. Boy was I wrong, touch and go for 3 months. Thought I was going to lose her....Well after paying lots of money, her true character came out. She was very fearful of everything but me....My daughter was born, Got alot worse. After many months of trying to work with her, training, she was getting worse around my daughter. She was a very highstung, weak nerved dog. Could not safely manage it, so I found a suitable home, and she is doing amazing, still talk to them from time to time. They work her every second of the day, and no kids.
Harley Rottweiler breeder, been in vet so many times, weak stomache, accident after accident. A couple grand already, he is only 2. He has nerves of steel, but almost too so. I have to work him everyday or he is insaine.
Out of the 2 which would I prefer......Depends on if I am showing my next one or not(or Kayla). If no show, I will def go rescue again.......

coppperbelle
October 17th, 2006, 09:03 PM
Sometimes I worry about rescues that don't have enough help and time to assess the dogs thoroughly before adopting out - so I imagine you could still have some surprises there.[/QUOTE]

I vote for rescues. :D That is because I work with rescued goldens. Over the past few years I have fostered a lot of dogs. Some have been with me for a few days and others for a few months. All the adoptions have been successful with the exception of one and I knew it when they left my house that it wasn't going to work out. It was just a gut feeling and I should have stopped it but I couldn't put my finger on it. They returned the dog to me a week later claiming he was aggressive. He wasn't the problem, they were. He was not aggressive ever in my home nor in the home I later found for him. I made sure that he had no aggression before he was adopted the second time. I took the time to ensure that his second adoption was a successful one.
You are right and sometimes dogs are adopted quickly and we don't really get to know them as well as we would like. In order to help other dogs this is sometimes necessary.
My own two dogs are rescues. One was abandoned and the first few months were hell. The experience although difficult has proven to be one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. She is so well behaved and will do anything asked of her. Through love and patience she has learned to trust again. Seeing her sleeping peacefully on her bed next to me brings tears to my eyes. I can't help but think of where she would be if we hadn't found each other. My other rescue had been well taken care of and loved as a pup. Unfortunately his family couldn't keep him because of allergies. He was only 6 months old when I adopted him and it was as if he had always lived with me.
Most of the dogs I have fostered have been excellent dogs but were given up through no fault of their own. There have been a few that needed some direction but after being with me for a few weeks they got into a routine, learned what was acceptable and when they went off to their new home their adoptive parents knew if they had a habit of counter surfing etc...
One particular foster that comes to mind came to me from a puppy mill. Frenchy and I (she works with the same rescue group as I) went to a planned meeting place. We were both scheduled to pick up a dog. We didn't know what we were getting ourselves into, at least I didn't. I knew it would be bad but what I saw will haunt me for years. Eight dogs were rescued that night. Two were so ill they were later put to sleep to end their suffering. Both Frenchy and I each left with a dog. We had to lift them into our cars. These dogs had never left the barn they had lived in all their lives. Frenchy's dog was 5 years old, I think and mine was 16 months. My foster could barely walk and I had to carry her into the house. She was terrified. I set up the crate in the kitchen and covered it with a blanket and she immediately went into it. I tried to coax her out but she didn't trust me. I did get to pet her a bit that evening but she was frozen with fear when I did. I had to carry her outside to do her business. She went into heat the day after I brought her home so for a few weeks she wore panties and thought nothing of it. Everything was new to her. Fortunately for her she didn't go into heat until after she left the mill. Everyday she made baby steps and when she was adopted a month later I cried. She was adopted by a man who was very well off and could have bought an expensive puppy from a breeder. Instead he wanted to rescue a dog. The last I heard she was living in the lap of luxury, had a new sister and was being spoiled rotten by the mans girlfriend and children.
I guess my point in this long post is that there are so many dogs that need a chance. Some have been through he.. and back and others are just confused and need a new home. If you are looking for a dog please consider a rescue. They will be very grateful and you will feel good about what you are doing.

Frenchy
October 17th, 2006, 09:20 PM
You are so right !

meb999
October 17th, 2006, 09:26 PM
beautifull post Copperbelle!!

LibbyP
October 17th, 2006, 09:54 PM
Breeder/Rescue, I think it totally depends on 'what' breed of dog you are looking for. There are many rescues geared to a specific breed. I think if you have small children/ other pets there are alot of factors to consider, I think if you are to enquire about rescues you would want to go with a group that house their animals in foster homes, and not some much a shelter atmosphere(not to say a shelter is a bad place) just that in a home you can see a totally different 'side' of the animal. And I am not saying that the animal will act the same in your home as in the foster home, you will have to start right from scratch, again. We had a terrible time finding our big girl (small children) through a rescue, didn't matter what hubby and I did/do as a living, own our home etc...contacted alot of rescues to be put on their 'list', it was very frustrating and disappointing. After months, one of our applications(rescue) called us back with a Libby, breeder(outstanding show dogs) looking to place a return(3yrs) via rescue group. I am in contact with her breeder all the time, (Q) did I adopt a rescue or support a breeder? Libby is one of the best girls around(knock on wood) we have had no health issues, yes she does have some behavioral, but that is to be expected, she came to us as an adult, you just have to learn to work through them. So to get to the point, I think it would totally depend on 'what' you are looking for breeder/rescue.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
October 17th, 2006, 10:02 PM
What about breed specific rescues - there are lots of purebreds that need rescuing - We were heading that way with Joey and were totally open to getting a rescue English Cocker - when we were contacted about Joey - we got him through the ECS rescue association but I wouldnt really call him a rescue - he is actually a rehomed show dog, from a breeder - meaning if we didnt take Joey the owner would have probably held on to him until she found someone else she thought was compatible - anyways thats my take on it -

I would go rescue next time - either purebred or not - but I wouldnt rush into it it would have to be the right dog - and Joey is pretty picky about the dogs he likes :)

Frenchy
October 17th, 2006, 10:02 PM
yes she does have some behavioral, but that is to be expected, she came to us as an adult, you just have to learn to work through them.
I'm not arguying with you but I adopted 3 older rescues that had no behaviroal issues / problems. And all the fosters I had were really sweet.

Prin
October 17th, 2006, 10:17 PM
I haven't had bad behavior issues, really. Nothing I couldn't overcome (except with my bro's doggy :().

I still believe that 99% of dogs are good dogs.

LibbyP
October 17th, 2006, 10:37 PM
I'm not arguying with you but I adopted 3 older rescues that had no behaviroal issues / problems. And all the fosters I had were really sweet.


Oh no no no I'm far from saying don't adopt an older dog either, personally (I/we) don't/won't adopt a puppy at any time, not now or in the future, there are far more benefits to adopting a mature animal. What I was trying to say is that had we gotten Libby as a young puppy, she might not have some of the same issues that she has had coming to us as an adult(socialization etc..) we just work through them and accept that that is just the way she is and work through. I wouldn't trade her for the world (even though I worked away from home this past weekend, for the first time since she came to us and she traded me in for the hubby:eek: :sad: I guess I'm going to have to do some fur butt kissing to win her back over to my side) I was also saying that if you are looking for a breed 'specific' go with a rescue that has their animals in foster homes, this is not what you do? How do small children fall into your policy/procedures?

Frenchy
October 17th, 2006, 10:42 PM
How do small children fall into your policy/procedures?
Some of my fosters came from family with young kids,then it's ok to place them in the same kind of family.If I don't know,then I choose a family without kids or older kids (10 and up)

TMac
October 17th, 2006, 11:39 PM
beautifull post Copperbelle!!

My thoughts exactly. Nicely put, Copperbelle :grouphug:

p.s. JoeyECockersmommy - My yellow lab :rip: was from a lab rescue. We adopted him at age 7 and had him till age 9 when he contracted E Coli (long horrible vacation story) and passed on. I would go there again in a heartbeat next time we're ready for a new addition. That won't be for a little while though cuz our current Humane Society dog (purebred golden that has papers and everything - go figure) is going through some behaviour stuff and we are busy devoting 110% of our time right now to his training. I think once his issues settle down, we'd consider adding another furball.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
October 18th, 2006, 12:38 AM
Aww I am sorry :grouphug:

Joey was six when we adopted him - he turned seven in July - he is really sweet and follows me from room to room of course I had to share again :D

LibbyP
October 18th, 2006, 12:59 PM
Some of my fosters came from family with young kids,then it's ok to place them in the same kind of family.If I don't know,then I choose a family without kids or older kids (10 and up)


I totally understand that policies/procedures need to be in place, but there are always exceptions to the rule, no? I find it very frustrating that because you have young children (that you want to teach from an early age to respect animals and to have compassion) that you can be turned away from possibly providing the best possible home for that animal because of little ones. Or are you just expected to wait until your children are 8,10,12 years?A H.S. in the area has refused a cat adoption (indoor only) to a family because they didn't have a fenced backyard - WTH:confused: I can see where some people turn to the paper "free to good home" or to a byb not that I think this is right. Yes both my hubby and I come from animal backgrounds for many,many years and in a shelter you do have some animals that develop bad habits while being in there, and some need more help adjusting to a home again, that is why we looked into rescues with foster care housing. I am not trying to argue, just :frustrated: and trying to get a rescuers point of view:D

Frenchy
October 18th, 2006, 01:04 PM
Speaking for myself I go case by case. But I practicly never get any families with young children looking to adopt my fosters,maybe because they are older dogs? We have rescue rules but we can bent them,we go with our gut feeling. LibbyP,anytime you want to adopt one of my fosters you will be approuve :thumbs up

LibbyP
October 18th, 2006, 01:19 PM
Speaking for myself I go case by case. But I practicly never get any families with young children looking to adopt my fosters,maybe because they are older dogs? We have rescue rules but we can bent them,we go with our gut feeling. LibbyP,anytime you want to adopt one of my fosters you will be approuve :thumbs up


Thanks Frenchy,:D I don't quite understand why everyone wants to adopt puppies (IMO) there not all there cracked up to be, when we went looking we wanted nothing under 3yrs

Golden Girls
October 18th, 2006, 01:52 PM
There are just too many good dogs getting put down every day, through NO FAULT of their own. I could never get a dog from a breeder, even the most reputable breeder in the worldVery well said, thank you :)

Rescue fatique :confused: I can think of many different fatique symptoms starting with kids, husbands, family, friends, co-workers, or even neighbors but none come with a genetic/behaviour/emotional nor financial guarantee either :evil: so why would anyone need "champion genetic genes" from a pet :shrug: IMO there's just never a good enough reason to buy from a breeder when so many loving animals need and deserve good homes.

Of course we all want healthy pets but we also all want healthy children - it shouldn't be about the gamble, good or bad you deal. Otherwise they sell beautiful artificial plants or battery operated toys (I know I'm bad sorry )

Besides all of the above, rescued animals always have a way of turning it around ... and rescue you :cloud9:

LibbyP
October 18th, 2006, 02:31 PM
I really lucked out with BRQ

There are just too many good dogs getting put down every day, through NO FAULT of their own. I could never get a dog from a breeder, even the most reputable breeder in the world.....not after such a wonderfull experience with my little rescue!

Is this not a breed specific rescue? (I) think it is a based on a supply and demand sort of thing, if there weren't breeders(good/bad) out there to begin with then we wouldn't have the need for 'specific' rescues. Some of these 'Purebred' animals end up at 'normal' shelters/rescue groups, it is not until a member finds out about this animal contacts a 'specific' breed rescue and that dog that it is 'pulled' out and safe until a home can be found, how is that fair to turn to the dog in the cage beside it that doesn't 'fit' the breed must remain with it's fate unknown. Pls believe me when I say I'm not trying to pick a fight, it's just my opinion and thoughts:)

dogmelissa
October 18th, 2006, 02:49 PM
"Rescue burnout".... I think it might just be "needy animal care burnout". And I think I came very close to that with Cube. He was not a breeder dog, nor a "rescue" (ie an organized rescue or shelter), but he was a rescue. I saved his life, literally, and he knows that. However, the first year I had him, I honestly wondered how I could have been so stupid as to take him home. He wasn't housetrained (though he was 11 months old; h.t. took almost a full year), he chased my 3 cats (still does but not as bad), had/has separation anxiety (read cried, whined, yelped when left and when I came back made high-pitched yelps that hurt my ears for many minutes), was not neutered, hadn't been groomed (ever? had really long claws, matted coat), had undiagnosed food allergies (ear infections), had on-leash aggression to all people and dogs, and cost me a small fortune in vet bills to get him fixed up from his abuse. He could have been *any* dog, and been abused, and all of these problems could have come up. But he was my Cube... and I had many many sleepless nights, crying bouts and days when I really didn't want to go home, because I was so frustrated and burned out from taking care of him.

But I found a way to stick it out... I found small things that I liked about him. I found a game that he played (fetch with kibble) that made me laugh. Everyday that he showed improvement, I found something else that made me think I'd done the right thing by taking him in. Was he right for me? Absolutely not. Was I the right person to take him in? By all rescue standards, probably not. I'd never had a dog, didn't even grow up with one. And I always wanted a big dog, and here I was with an 8 lb mutt. I had cats, which he chased. I worked full-time, and he needed more than a few hours of care a day. I lived in a small town and hadn't even seen any other dogs around, and he needed socialization. I was living paycheque to paycheque and worrying about paying my bills, and he needed a lot of expensive vet care, training, supplies, etc. And I spent a lot of time wondering how I was going to get through this, and how long I could "put up" with him; not a good quality in a person who has a special-needs animal.

And yet, now that we've worked through most of his health issues (he still has some minor chronic issues), have solved or at least reduced some of his behavioural issues, and I've found more things about him that I like/love, I can't imagine my life without him. I can't imagine him living with anyone else. I know that when he goes (which I hope isn't for a looooong time), that my life is going to feel empty and very very sad.
Will I get another "rescue"? You betcha. Will that mean an abused dog who has some serious physical and behavioural issues? I don't know. It was really really hard, but overall, really rewarding. Am I picky about whether it's a "purebred" dog (either from a breed rescue, a byb or a shelter)? Not at this point, but I might have a different life or other things to consider in the future.

I think what's very important for anyone who is caring for a special needs person or animal, is to find something that relieves the stress. Either something *great* about that person or animal that makes you "forget" the tough times, or an activity that takes you away from that person or animal to get some "down time". I think the advantage that animal-rescuers have is that animals always return the love and compassion we give to them, in whatever way they can, whereas humans often lose the ability to do so when they reach the point where they need care. If I had a choice, I'd turn every old person into an old dog, then at least caregivers could get kisses, tail wags or at least a warm look in aging brown eyes.

Melissa

meb999
October 18th, 2006, 03:34 PM
Is this not a breed specific rescue? (I) think it is a based on a supply and demand sort of thing, if there weren't breeders(good/bad) out there to begin with then we wouldn't have the need for 'specific' rescues. Some of these 'Purebred' animals end up at 'normal' shelters/rescue groups, it is not until a member finds out about this animal contacts a 'specific' breed rescue and that dog that it is 'pulled' out and safe until a home can be found, how is that fair to turn to the dog in the cage beside it that doesn't 'fit' the breed must remain with it's fate unknown. Pls believe me when I say I'm not trying to pick a fight, it's just my opinion and thoughts:)

yes Boxer Rescue IS a breed specific rescue...I don't understand your post. The SPCA (or another pound....*not the SPCA MOntérégie though* ) doesn't call a specific breed rescue when they have a specific breed coming in. they call a specific breed rescue when they are going to put down a dog (even then, they usually just put it down without trying to save it by entering it into another rescue program). Most dogs are owner surrender. Whether it's a specific breed rescue or a mixed breed rescue.....I gotta admit....I don't really understand what your implying??
how is that fair to turn to the dog in the cage beside it that doesn't 'fit' the breed must remain with it's fate unknown

So ALL dogs should stay in the cage and eventually get put down, then?

technodoll
October 18th, 2006, 03:42 PM
Is this not a breed specific rescue? (I) think it is a based on a supply and demand sort of thing, if there weren't breeders(good/bad) out there to begin with then we wouldn't have the need for 'specific' rescues.

i would rather turn that around... if it weren't for stupid, irresponsible, crappy "owners" there would be no need for rescues at all. PERIOD. don't blame the breeders! blame the morons who dump their dogs for any and which reason and then turn around and buy another one and keep repeating the cycle until, well... sigh! :mad:

speedbunny70
October 18th, 2006, 03:59 PM
We got our chocolate lab Bailey from a good breeder, we did look around at the shelters, but my fiancee really had his heart set on a chocolate lab. I guess it really depends on what kind of dog you want....a puppy, adult, etc. I told him the next one we would get would have to be one from a shelter, there's so many in there, I can't stand it, people move and dump their dog, they don't feel like taking care of them anymore....any reason really. Makes me furious. :mad:

Prin
October 18th, 2006, 06:54 PM
meb already said what I wanted to say (and very well), but I still have to address this part:

(I) think it is a based on a supply and demand sort of thing, if there weren't breeders(good/bad) out there to begin with then we wouldn't have the need for 'specific' rescues. Trust me, rescues WISH they could go out of business. It's a horrible business to be in.

BMDluver here saves BMDs when she can, but she also takes in any other dogs that need her. Have you read Sam's story? He's a perfect example of the kind of dog who is pulled from the SPCA who ends up in a breed specific rescue (don't remember if he was or not, but still- the SPCA doesn't want him.).

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=28530

Golden Girls
October 18th, 2006, 07:45 PM
I find it very frustrating that because you have young children (that you want to teach from an early age to respect animals and to have compassion) that you can be turned away from possibly providing the best possible home for that animal because of little onesMaybe Libby a rescue will use an excuse if they fear a possible return :shrug: It doesn't neccesarily mean the home isn't a good one - just not for that particular dog perhaps? When they accept a surrendered animal, their focus would be to make sure it'll be a permanent one ... so I can understand the need to make such judgement calls.

Prin
October 18th, 2006, 07:49 PM
I agree. If a dog isn't good with kids for some reason, they won't put it in a home with kids.

Remember this guy? How much do you want to bet the rescue will think twice about kids now...
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=31641

meb999
October 18th, 2006, 08:02 PM
and trying to get a rescuers point of view:D
not that I consider myself a rescuer....but I think most rescues will agree that adoptions are made in the ANIMALS best interest, not in the potential adopters best interest. These guys have been abandoned at least once (often times more than once), it's normal for rescues to be weary of families with young children. This is MY OPINION, I'm not talking for any rescues on this site!!
*I know this is probably not YOUR FAMILY's case*, but most dogs in pounds are there because they 'weren't good with the kids, or the babies came and we have no time for the cute doggy anymore...etc..etc...Rescues DO adopt to families with young children, but they'll wait for a very well-behaved CALM dog to come in. One without too many issues. These guys are more rare, so the waiting list for one is longer. It's normal.
Buster was adopted out to a WONDERFULL family with young children. They knew everything about dogs. They raised their kids around boxers. They were the perfect family. They left their 3 year old daughter alone with Buster, she hurt him, he growled -- and he was swept up, put in the mini-van and dropped back off at the rescues' doorstep. All in one evening. They couldn't even wait until the next morning because their daughters safety was in peril.

Frenchy
October 18th, 2006, 09:53 PM
how is that fair to turn to the dog in the cage beside it that doesn't 'fit' the breed must remain with it's fate unknown. Pls believe me when I say I'm not trying to pick a fight, it's just my opinion and thoughts:)
I know what you mean and I do sometimes feel bad to be foster for a specific breed (BTW we do take golden mixes,my first foster was a black golden :D ) but there some great rescues here that takes the mixt breeds too. Rosie animal adoption goes in shelters and they save wonderful dogs.

Prin
October 18th, 2006, 10:04 PM
Hey, at least breed-specific rescues rescue somebody. Wayyy better than them not being there at all.

LibbyP
October 18th, 2006, 10:07 PM
Okay I am going to try and reply to everyone and hopefully what I am trying to say will come out right as it is hard to express yourself in print as if you were having a face to face conversation.
meb999- I also went through a breed 'specific' to adopt Libby, and I am glad you have had as much success in your rescue as I have, I can only speak of what I now to happen here in London as opposed to Quebec, when a purebred comes into a 'normal' shelter, the shelter will be swarmed with applications for that animal, people will call/come in several times a day to see if that animal has been placed onto the adoption floor, these people know Nothing about this animal other than it is a 'pb'(whatever),they don't give a rats butt if it has issues(a biter,medical,temperament etc...) they just Want it. Shelters here do call breed 'specific' rescues when they cannot properly find a suitable home, or if space is an issue, so I am sorry but shelters/rescues here do 'cherry pick' as to what they feel will/can be adopted out quickly. And no I do not think it is humane to have an animal be kept alive living in a cage for the rest of it's life, sometimes I think the greatest gift is to be pts.
technodoll- I think it kinda 'which came first the chicken or the egg' I'm not blaming the breeders, I'm blaming the irresponsible 'owners' that get a cute little puppy and get tired of it, or let them have just one litter cause you know 'we'll find good homes for all the puppies - WRONG!'
Prin- You are not telling me something I don't already know about being in rescue, you really don't know anything about what I have done in the past as far as animals are concerned, not all animals are surrendered from their owners, I've had to go into homes and remove these animals with police and little children crying so I am VERY aware or what goes on.:sad: And Sam's a perfect example, a shelter does not have the time/resources/money to house an animal in this state, I'm quite sure that if the rescue didn't take him he would have been pts, to open a cage for the next one coming in, not sure about there but here no government money is sent to 'help' shelters, they rely on donations and bequests, here Sam would have been on the front page of the news page and a public cry for $ would have gone out to save him. People here are getting tired of the same 'old' we need money story, now the shelters are only going with the 'big' stuff to shock and wow the public.
Golden Girls & Prin & Meb999- I totally agree if an animal is not good with kids then of course it shouldn't be place in a home with them, that's only common sense, why would you want the liability of knowing you placed that animal in the wrong home - it's set up to fail from the start. But I do not think you should be turned down flat because you have small children - no questions asked, not all kids are bad or hurtful. I totally understand waiting for the perfect match 'for the dog' as that is their main concern - they want a successful permanent home. I can also see this being a problem if you were looking to adopt a young/puppy, but we weren't.
I really hope this has cleared up some of the comments, like I said before these are just my thoughts and opinions.

Prin
October 18th, 2006, 10:37 PM
Prin- You are not telling me something I don't already know about being in rescue, you really don't know anything about what I have done in the past as far as animals are concerned, not all animals are surrendered from their owners, I've had to go into homes and remove these animals with police and little children crying so I am VERY aware or what goes on.Sorry, but I responded your post the way I read it- like the rescues are indirectly part of the breeding business and somehow profit from it. I guess it was the "supply and demand" talk.:shrug: :o

technodoll
October 18th, 2006, 10:40 PM
technodoll- I think it kinda 'which came first the chicken or the egg' I'm not blaming the breeders, I'm blaming the irresponsible 'owners' that get a cute little puppy and get tired of it, or let them have just one litter cause you know 'we'll find good homes for all the puppies - WRONG!'


libby, we are totally on the same page... if the people who acquired a dog (or five!) actually kept that dog through thick and thin, until the dog crossed the rainbow bridge from old age or natural causes... did not breed their pets... but treated them with respect, dignity and devotion their entire lives... there would be no need, no demand and no reason for the surplus of dogs we're stuck with today... because every dog would have a home. quite far from where we are today, in this disposable society.. :sad:

Frenchy
October 18th, 2006, 10:42 PM
quite far from where we are today, in this disposable society.. :sad:
The more I meet people,the more I like dogs. Some people suck :mad:

mesaana
October 18th, 2006, 10:45 PM
LibbyP:

First, I'll say that I'm with the same rescue as Frenchy and we do not have hard and fast rules. I'm against them on principle and I wouldn't volunteer with this rescue if we had them. Some of the commonly seen rules that bother me are:
- no kids under x age, ever
- must have a fenced-in yard, no exception
- cannot leave the dog longer than x hours (the worst I've seen is 4)

Based on those rules, I couldn't adopt a dog.

However, this topic comes up often in rescue forums. What the rescues who have these rules say, and I find it hard to argue with them, is this:
"We manage to find excellent homes for all our dogs with these rules in place. We have plenty of qualified applicants. We have no reason to change these rules."

Again, I don't agree with the rules. But I understand the rescues that have them. And a lot of rescues don't, which explains that I have my Vega. I know at least 3 more in the area aside from Golden Rescue that don't have them. So you just need to keep looking... :)

Prin
October 18th, 2006, 10:51 PM
I agree. :)

LibbyP
October 18th, 2006, 11:02 PM
LibbyP:

Some of the commonly seen rules that bother me are:
- no kids under x age, ever
- must have a fenced-in yard, no exception
- cannot leave the dog longer than x hours (the worst I've seen is 4)

Again, I don't agree with the rules. I know at least 3 more in the area aside from Golden Rescue that don't have them. So you just need to keep looking... :)

I guess it also has alot to do with the 'breed' you are looking at adopting, we were looking for either xrt lrg (gentle giant) or sm (but not breakable) as we do have small children (Frenchie,Pug,Boston) and I am a SAHM so someone is here at least 15-20 hours a day most days. We own our home and have a fenced in backyard, I am hoping that next time we won't have the same difficulties.:fingerscr

Oh and yes these are all pb that I have 'picked' but this time I wanted something different, for a change. Just like I said in a different post that next time I want a blk dog (because I've never had one before)

Prin
October 18th, 2006, 11:03 PM
So there's the paradox, eh? You have to be home all day, but you can't have any kids. :confused: :shrug:

fosterpat
October 18th, 2006, 11:08 PM
I've been a foster for a rescue for 3years now and I have 3kids. When I started the kids were 4, 6 and 8 years old. In the beginning, because of the kids ages, we only took in puppies. Even though half of the pups were under 3months old. Some were not good at all with kids and I did not place them in families with young children. They were either not very well socialized, some were abused and neglected and some were dominant around my kids and would snap at them or growl and I did not take it for granted, that they would just outgrow it. After a little experience we started taking in adult dogs. Either nursing or pregnant moms. These dogs were great with my kids, but not great with my dogs. It would always scare the kids if there was a fight between them. The rescue and I, have always been very carefull about which dogs enter my home. With the adult dogs, you're always kind of in an honeymoon phase the first week or two and then the dog will relax around you and show his true colours. A couple had to be removed from my house, because they started to show aggression.
Since in our rescue the dogs stay an average of a few weeks, we evaluate them the best we can. So if a dog was a stray and we don't know his background we automatically do not place them in a home with children under 10/12 years old. Sometimes big dogs the size of a golden or lab could knock little ones over, every dog is different and most rescues do think of the dog first, not the family.

That said though, I don't think I would ever adopt from a breeder. Just because I have seen so many great dogs in rescue that I would never had hesitated to adopt one myself and I have....twice!

Golden Girls
October 19th, 2006, 07:25 AM
My bumper sticker says: "Don't breed or buy while pets at shelters die".Love it! Although I'm pro-rescue there are exceptions -like "rare breeds" but only if "mandatory spay/neuter agreement" is required otherwise their just another BYB IMO

This wigglybum is only 10 mths and already 97 lbs of pure muscle. $3000 later *ouch* They all had a blast yesterday - his name is ... BULL, isn't he just gorgeous :cloud9:

coppperbelle
October 19th, 2006, 07:53 AM
Lyne is so right. I am with the same rescue group and I have no problem adopting a dog out to someone with young children if the dog will fit into that household. Some of the dogs we get have lived in a number of homes already and we don't want to move them again. We are looking for forever homes for these dogs. If we have to exclude a family with young children we have a reason for this. The same applies to rules about fenced off yards and someone home all day. If we feel the dog needs either one of these then we will look for such a home.

OntarioGreys
October 19th, 2006, 08:46 AM
If there was only good responsible breeders we would have no need for rescues or shelters. I have involved in rescue myself for a few years, so I do understand the burnout, if we want a healthy populations of dogs for the future we need to have responsible breeders and people that are willing to purchase pups that do not make the grade as show dog, no breeder in the world can produce only show quality pups, for example some of the pups in Winnies little were sold as show quality, but Winnie was growing too fastand it was assumed he would hit more that the show maximum of 13lbs, at just under 7 months of age when I had him neutered his weight was 12.8 lbs, he was just 10 lbs when I got him, runts of the litter especially in big litters will often be undersized, as a result these dogs are sold as pets at a much lower price($800) than the show quality(1300- $2000), we need responsible breeders to ensure that our childrens, and childrens children can also know the pleasure of owning a pet that is temperamentally and physically sound, faulting people who decide to purchase a pup instead of adopting a rescue is not going to solve the current problems we have with too many dogs coming into rescue. And stopping all breeding means we also lose the responsible breeders as well as their dogs that are necessary to provide those healthy and sound pups for the future,

if you want to solve the current problems you need to get at the root, that is fighting to have laws passed that shuts down puppymills and backyard breeders and force only responsible breeders to exist that agree to take full responsibilty for the pups they breed for life, which responsible breeders are already doing, and I am sure they would appreciate it to, because bad breeding has damaged the reputation of many breeds for example pit bulls, cockers, rotti's, shepherd and dobes which many people avoid because of fears of aggression, it would also help breeders find genetically healthy mates for their dogs as there currently are dogs that have poor lineage bred by byb's that have made it as showdogs that are being bred and one or 2 generations later the genetic problems can re surface, if those pups are bred before known then dozens of other litters are born with genetics issues that get passed down to future generations which then later can severely impact the health/temperment of the breed, as what happened to the german shepherd population in North America, many breeders simply started over by importing dogs out of germany instead to rebuild the breed to save it, some of the rarer breeds could end up forever destroyed, if there are not breeders in other countries where strict breeding guidelines exist if we continue as is. So removing the bad breeders also serves to protect the health of breeds so they can remain genetically and temperamently sound.

A good breeder screens their purchasers to ensure that the pups are going to responsible homes but also have a contract that spells out that the pup must be returned to them if the purchaser decides they no longer want and it also spells outs stricts legal penalities and compensation for re-selling or putting the pup in a shelter

By having only responsible breeders the only time rescues would be needed is if the breeder passes away before dogs they bred do, and we would not have unneutered unspayed pets because responsible breeders follow up with purchasers to ensure the pet quality pups are spayed by a given date otherwise they will reclaim the pups as spelled out in the purchase contract. For show quality pups the breeder usually has something in their purchasse contract the lets them have a say in any breedings to ensure they will not be bred just for profit



So even though it is good to adopt rescues it is just as important to support responsible breeders and push for laws to eliminate the bad and that is the way to end the vicious circle of thousands of dogs being euthanized or being put in shelters and rescues.

puppymills and bad breeders depend on those that adopt from rescues to clean up after them so they can continue pumping out puppies, like it or not they would not be able to exist without adopters taking. If everyone stopped adopting the cities do not have places for all the unwanted dogs and rescues can't hold them all, next thing people would be tossing their unwanted dogs on the street and people would screaming at the top of their lungs to tighten breeding controls and we would have breeding laws in place pretty darn quick. Over the short term a lot of dogs would die but over the longterm far less would die than at the rate we are currently going. Animal lovers are not that heartless to walk away and just let them die so if they really want to make a difference then they have to be willing to fight for breeding control laws, otherwise all they are doing is helping to support indirectly the breeding for profit industry.

Furbaby Momma
October 19th, 2006, 10:47 AM
I am an animal rescuer to many different animals, dogs/puppies, cats/kittens, birds and wildlife. It would make me so happy if people would adopt animals, but I also understand how every person is different and how a pure bred animal is a great choice also to be purchased from a breeder.
I feel that which ever choice you make in bringing an animal into your life is your freedom to do so, but the ultimate suggestion is no matter what your choice is....you make sure that you are a responsible animal owner.

Do not buy animals from a pet store...you are supporting puppy mills, no reputable breeder will ever sell there animals to a pet store.
Do not buy animals from back yard breeders...they are depleting the breed, and the animals that come from a byb's will have issues with their health and/or behavioral problems and then the end result will be that some will end up in a shelter.

Please support your local shelters and rescues and spread the good word about how wonderful the breeder is that you bought your animal from this way we will be supporting the positive things in regards to animals. :love: :cat: :dog: :pawprint:

dogmelissa
October 19th, 2006, 01:36 PM
So there's the paradox, eh? You have to be home all day, but you can't have any kids. :confused: :shrug:

:offtopic: Please be aware, completely :offtopic:
I was recently doing some looking into the puppy-fostering programs (for assistance/seeing eye dogs), and most of the ones that have puppy-raisers/fosterers in Calgary *require* that you either work out of the home or don't have an outside job (ie SAHM). The only one I found that says you *can* have a job (if you can take the dog with you to work) is the PADS Assistance dogs. They actually encourage it, and understandably. I simply cannot figure out how a puppy is going to be exposed to a "normal" work environment when it doesn't get exposed to it from the time it's very young? Are they suggesting that blind people don't work outside of their homes?


One of the underlying characteristics of your puppy, when he is ready to leave your home, is that he has developed social skills and behaves in such a manner that his presence will be acceptable in homes, offices, elevators, restaurants, hospitals, public areas, as well as on public transportation and in private vehicles.
....
Generally, the criteria for fostering a puppy include:
* A home where at least one adult is home during the day and generally accompanying and supervising the puppy most of the time.
* A home where there is no more than one other dog as a permanent resident.

As opposed to the PADS dogs program which says:
These are the basic criteria for a PADS puppyraiser/puppysitters:
-A PADS puppy will not be placed in a home where there are more than 3 dogs in residence, where a dog is under 12 months of age or where an animal is not spayed or neutered. Cats are acceptable as this is great socializing for our puppies.
-If you work outside the home, the puppy must be able to accompany you or there must be a responsible adult in the home at all times. Puppies cannot be left alone for more than four hours per day.
-Socializing means that our puppy should accompany you wherever you go. For example, the puppy must be exposed to shopping malls, grocery stores, buses, doctor's and dentist's offices, theatres, movies, restaurants, elevators and sporting events. As a working dog, he will be accompanying his recipient to all these places and more. PADS must be assured that loud noises and crowded areas are not a distraction and that the puppy has been trained to behave while in public. Daily exposure is best; once a week is not enough.
Seems to me any dog is going to be more used to average daily activities if the family that raises it works outside the home. I don't think that most blind, deaf or disabled people who work do so in their homes, so why should the puppy be raised in an environment which isn't anything like where they're going to end up?? (Also, the restriction to only have one other dog probably limits a lot of families, too, though not me. I wonder how the Guide Dog people feel about cats?)
Because of the requirements working in the home, that is why I'll be applying to raise puppies from the PADS people, and not any of the other assistance dog programs. I think it's kinda sad that they restrict it only to people who are home all day, when there are *so* many more people who probably would be able to help, if they let them be raised in houses where people work outside the home. The waiting lists are long enough for those in need because not all dogs meet the criteria; imagine how much shorter it would be if more dogs & homes were involved??

Ok, that's my totally off-topic semi-rant for the day.
Thanks for listening!
Melissa

Prin
October 19th, 2006, 01:38 PM
Wouldn't the blind bring the dog with them to work? I think that's why... They're always with a person, so there's no reason to leave them alone ever.:shrug:

dogmelissa
October 19th, 2006, 01:48 PM
Wouldn't the blind bring the dog with them to work? I think that's why... They're always with a person, so there's no reason to leave them alone ever.:shrug:

Not saying that a blind person would leave their dog at home... but that they require that the people *raising* the puppies, before they become Guide Dogs, do not have an outside-the-home job. So those puppies will be raised with people who have a business from their home or SAH parents. But then if/when they pass their training, they get assigned to a blind person who works in an office (there's *lots* of things blind people can do!), and the puppy has never had to spend a whole day in an office, listening to a photocopier, hearing people bustling around, not being startled by noisy couriers, etc. I just don't understand how a work-from-home raising is going to expose the dog to the right things. :shrug:

If I was raising a assistance dog, either for blind, deaf, disabled or any other kind of assistance program, I think the *only* time the doggy was left alone would be when I ran outside in the winter to start my car and let it warm up, or perhaps if I was shovelling the snow and it was really cold and it was something like a lab with a short coat (but even then, they'd have a jacket & booties on!). They'd be with me at work, when I go out for dinner, to the doctor's, to football games, to meetings with clients, to family BBQs..... and if I couldn't take them for whatever reason (going for surgery or something), then they'd have to be taken care of by someone else (bf, alternate family member, substitute puppy-raiser). I really can't see myself even leaving that puppy home alone for an *hour* each day, let alone anywhere near that 4 hr mark they say is the max. If it's going to be an assistance dog, it's going to be with a person 24/7 so why leave it alone when it's a pup? I just don't understand why they limit "average" people who just happen to be employed outside of their home. Not everyone has the luxury of a home-based business or the income to support a stay-at-home parent, but still want to help.

Melissa

LibbyP
October 19th, 2006, 01:50 PM
Very nicely said OntarioGreys, that is what I meant by my earlier post 'Supply and Demand', not everyone WANTS to be a SAH parent, sometimes it costs far more to have two working parents and your children in day-care