October 11th, 2006, 10:16 PM
I am new here, just found this site while I was trying to find some help online. I have a ex-racing greyhound that we rescued about 3 weeks ago. His first week here his stools were loose and unformed. Not like diarrhea but not firm either. I gave him a week to settle in and get used to the food, the house, etc. After it continued that long we were off to the vet and discovered he has hook worms! yuck!!! He has had one dose of meds so far for the worms (Drontal) and will be getting another dose three weeks from the first to kill the hatching eggs. Yuck!!!
To cut to the case here... He has the loose stools and flaky skin which I know sometimes can be a sign of food allergies. I am giving him Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Lamb & Rice. Is it safe to say his stools are still loose because of the worms or should that no longer be an issue and it could be the food? I know Nutro is good and should help with both the stool and skin problems but I dont know if I should switch to something else yet or give it more time. Any suggestions would be much appriciated!!!
Thanks so much!
October 11th, 2006, 10:23 PM
I had a dog that was on nutro when i got him, and as you'll hear here its not the best, there are better. however when my dog was on nutro he was shedding like MAD ..... i mean my vacuum cleaner got clogged everyday when i was vaccuming... I switched to innova, and the shedding has decreased significantly and his fur is much softer and shinier. I also had a homeless cat i took in that had bad dandruff/flaky skin and she's on innova now as well and shes doing great. Switch the food over slowly and give it about a month to start noticing changed in the fur and skin
October 11th, 2006, 10:40 PM
I'd wait till he gets settled. Three weeks in a new environment isn't long enough to adjust and the stress can be causing a whole bunch of issues, that stressing him more with a food change just doesn't seem worth it right now.
Nutro is the bottom of the holistic foods though so if you want to eventually switch, we can help you find a new (better) food.:)
October 12th, 2006, 12:27 AM
Although the soupy-poopy and skin issues may be caused any or all of the change in his environment, the stress of a new home/ new people/ new routine and rules, the new food just because it's new and/or the new food because it's not suitable for him, the worms are most definitely in the driver's seat for the soupy-poopy. And hook worms are tenacious little beggars. Did I miss the picture of him ? (The dawgy NOT the worms that is...:D ). Poor sweetums ~ thanks for adopting him:angel: !
October 12th, 2006, 08:17 AM
It really can take a while for a Greyhound to adjust to a new home so I wouldn't worry too much. I have 2 Greys and although Sophie adjusted very quickly, Benny took about 6 weeks before he stopped having the runs. The two of them both came off the track with hookworms, it is very common but they are hard to get rid of. I think we did 3 or 4 treatments before they were finally gone, and both dogs had softish poops during that time. Dandruff takes a while to go away too, they are fed such junk at the track that it takes a while for their coats to become nice again. I had my Greys on Nutro when I first got them and they didn't do that well on it. I found I had to feed quite a lot of it to maintain their weight, and this resulted in lots of poops. At one point they were each pooping 3 times a day! :yuck: I would suggest either Canidae Lamb and Rice, or one of the Dick Van Patten Natural Balance formulas. They may seem expensive but they are actually cheaper because you have to feed a lot less of them. I had Benny on 4 & 1/4 cups of Nutro per day, he now gets 2 & 1/2 cups of the Dick Van Patten. He only poops once a day now too which is fabulous! I would agree though that it is best to wait a few weeks before switching foods; let your new doggie get settled first so as to avoid stomach upsets. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask, and congrats on your new family member!
October 12th, 2006, 09:37 AM
It was so nice of you all to write back so quickly. I have heard great things about the DVP foods but yes, they are a lot more expensive. Which ones are your grey's on? Today we have really loose watery stools again so I added the white rice to his morning kibble. He does not like it and will not eat most of it. The canned pumpkin he does like but it didnt seem to firm up his poop at all! It did turn it orange though! Oh my!
Since he is so fresh off the track and maybe needs extra vitamins and nutrients, do you think I should be offering him a daily supplement of some kind or another?
Thanks again SO much!!!!
October 12th, 2006, 10:22 AM
THe loose stool could be a result of a combo of things like stress, worms, deworming and even could be a result of being intolerant of something in the food for example the corn gluten, though it does seem to agree with most greyhounds, the shedding flakiness can also be a result of all of the above.
With the hook worms, make sure to pick up any stools right away in your yard and dispose of, so there is no ground contamination that could cause reinfection, and continue to do so until a fecal exam comes back negative
It take a new greyhound about 2 months to settle in a become comfortable, he has been though a whole lot in a very short period of time, with revaccinations, neuter and most likely a dental, a move from the track racing kennel to a track adoption kennel so first food change then to possibly an adoption group where a second food change occurs and then to your home where possibly another food change has occured, he may firm up yet with time and having some stability with out having his body bombarded with more drugs, I know some adoption groups view some of the premium foods as overpriced and overly fancy, The adoption group I fostered for did recommend Nutro Large Breed, I myself fed Canidae to my own dogs, and this is what I noted ... one large bag Nutro large Breed last one foster dog just the same length of time of bag of Canidae lasted feeding 3 of my dogs(2 greyhounds and one 27 lb american eskimo) so Canidae though more expensive per bag was much more cost effective to feed, and compares to many of the super premiums has one of the higher meat over grain ratios an there is no questionable ingredients like beet pulp, corn , wheat, tomato pomace, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite(many pet food companies are now removing or have plans to)
This site explains some of the ingrdients in dog foods you want to watch out for http://dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients
Nutro Large Breed is only a 30 lb bag and most greyhounds will 3 to 4 cups a day
Canidae is a 40 lb bag, most greyhounds will only need 2 cups a day to maintain weight, So Canidae may cost a bit more it lasted a lot longer, Canidae contains more meat, and the main ingredient is meat , in Nutro the main ingredient is rice(chicken meal is listed as the first ingredient, followed by ground rice then rice flour corn gluten then rice bran , when the 3 rices are added together they become the number one ingredient) for this reason many greys will needed added supplements when eating the Nutro to try and elimanate the dry flaky coat, where as with Canidae you do not need to add supplements because the extra meat has plenty of amino acids to help the coat so another cost saver. Some greyhound are intolerant of corn which could be the reason for the soft stool as well.
So you have a couple of options stick with the Nutro Large breed to avoid maybe stressing his system further with another food change for another month, adding a tbsp of plan yogurt and one tbsp of canned pumpkin to help firm things up and settle his digestive system.
or you can make another food switch but do it slowly making a transition over 1 to 2 weeks so as not to shock his system too much. if you do to fast it could cause explosive diarreaha.
Just so you can compare the 2 foods yourself I am quoting the ingredients and your can seen for yourself the difference in the amount of grains and meat
Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed
Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Rice Flour, Corn Gluten Meal, Rice Bran, Dried Beet Pulp, Wheat Flour, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Natural Flavors, Soybean Oil, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Lecithin, Dried Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Biotin, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Manganese Proteinate, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Manganous Oxide, Chondroitin Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid.
now Canidae All Stage formula ingredients
All Natural Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.
THey also have 2 other formulas that contain single meats that can helpful for dogs that may be allergic to certain meats
They have a store locator on their site http://canidae.com/index.html
I myself right now feed Innova EVO Red Meat formula, as one of my greyhounds was having problems metabolizing grains. so this is a totally grain free food, for a greyhound depending on size and activity a daily feeding amount is 1 to 2 cups, my 83 lb boy gets 1 1/2 but he is very lazy, my girl is 65 she get the same and is much more active, initially I did do a lot of research and did regular blood tests once I started as the protein and fat levels are quite high, much of the newer research is showing that dogs can handle high protein and that it is NOT the cause of kidney disease and the findings are also showing older dogs need more protein not less, I have been feeding for a couple years now to all my dogs and have been quite happy. It comes in 28.8 lb sized bag and more expensive than the Canidae, they also have the white meat formula also high protein and in 30lb bag at a slightly lower cost, this is what I started with before the red meat formula came out, the dogs like the red meat formula better which is why I switched
With greyhounds I think it is very important to learn about dog foods and about what foods can be toxic or carcinegetic as they have very small livers for their body size compared to most other breeds, this means they are unable to handle toxins as easily which is why many flea products are a big no-no and certain anesthesia drugs and other pharmaceuticals, the cancer rates in greyhounds are very high and the size of their liver may be part of the reason for that, it is one of the reason I recommend Canidae as the first choice as they use only humane grade hormone free meats and pesticide free grains. A very good choice as long as your dog has not got a rice allergy intolerance or specific meat allergies such as chicken and lamb
October 12th, 2006, 12:51 PM
What great info, thanks so much!!! Aside from my dogs poop being loose and quite nasty, I think I am also shocked by the sheer volume of it! Yes, he is a big guy... 80 lbs, but Oh My!!! He goes usually 3 times a day. In the morning he has his routine of going once here in this one spot, crossing to the complete opposite side of the yard and going there, then back and forth about 3 more times or so! I try to always be out there with him to pick it up right away. I cant tell you the amount of grocery store plastic bags I have gone through!
I do have a few things I would like to follow up with if you wouldnt mind. First the worms are really a problem to me as they would be to anyone I am sure. I have two young kids. I am keeping them out of the back yard, they are banished to the front! I pick up the poop that I find quickly but I am sure there is some that I havent found since he goes so often and so much. The bad days he was just walking and it was dripping out of him so I am almost positive there is poop still out there that I havent gotten yet. Is it safe to say that the worms eventually die without a host to live on? And about his bedding, I am worried about that too. He hasnt had accidents on it or anything, but I am worried if they could be infected somehow with the worms and they can get passed to him again and to us. After I clean up, I am washing my hands with obsessive compulsive intentions!
Now to the food. I understand the concept of more expensive food, but feeding less of it so it lasts longer. That I am ok with. I just looked on the Canidea site and they say a 75+lb dog should eat 3-4 cups a day. 4 cups is what we eat now of the Nutro. If I can lesson the poops, firm them up and "fix" his digestive track, that of course would be ideal. Some other grey owners that I have had contact with have recommended the Canidae & Innova as you mentioned, and also Solid Gold, Dick Van Pattens Natural Balance, Eagle Pack and Proplan Sensitive Skin and Stomach. I hate to open a can of worms (no pun intended) and I know some people out there think that if you cant afford the BEST BEST BEST for your pets, then you shouldnt have them, but.... I am one that cant. I can do better than the grocery store Iams so I was hoping Nutro would work. I am ok with buying more expensive food but needing to feed less of it because the quality is better, but I really dont know how I can buy much more expensive food if he eats near the same amount. Any ideas for this to work for us? Thanks so much!
October 13th, 2006, 07:37 AM
First, about the food. Canidae is an excellent food and is actually recommended by many Greyhound rescues. It does say on the bag to feed 3-4 cups per day but most dogs don't need that much to maintain their weight. My guys are on the Dick Van Patten Venison and Brown rice formula right now but I will be switching them to the Canidae Lamb and Rice as soon as my pet store can get it for me. Both foods have excellent ingredients, but the Canidae is quite a bit cheaper. It is $57.99 for a 40 lb bag where the DVP is $64.99 for a 30 lb bag. The bag of DVP says to feed 3.75 to 4.75 cups per day which is nowhere near what I feed to maintain their weight. Benny is 64 lbs and he gets 2 &1/2 cups, Sophie is 53 lbs and she gets 2 & 1/4 cups. Neither dog has lost weight since they've been on it. The problem with foods like Nutro is that they have a lot of fillers in them like rice and corn. You have to feed more of the food because much of the fillers just pass right through your dog without being absorbed. You can feed less of the Canidae or DVP because there are many more ingredients in them that are useable by your dog. I would say at 80 lbs you would probably have to feed about 3 to 3 &1/4 cups of Canidae. By the way, I had Benny on 4 cups of Nutro to maintain his 64lb weight which means in the long run if you stay with Nutro you'll probably have to increase to 4 &1/2 cups to maintain your guy's weight.
As for the worms, we ended up spending a month walking our dogs exclusively. No going out in the yard! The vet said that even though we were picking up the poops there would always still be a little left on the ground. When we went out for our walks I would pick up as much of the poop as I could and then spray the area with a bleach and water mixture to kill anything that might be left. You could also do this in the yard I suppose, but you'd have to be very thorough and clean up every time your dog goes out, not just once a day. All it takes is for him to eat one blade of grass that has been in contact with an infected poop and your problem starts all over again. If you walk him exclusively you can see exactly where he is going every single time and clean it up, so it may actually be easier. Is his bedding washable? If so, I would try and wash it every day just to be on the safe side.
October 13th, 2006, 10:34 AM
I have no doubt that canadae is excellent and high high quality. I was only saying that I was suprised the serving size listed on their website was the same as what I feel now in Nutro. I am sure that once we get started, you are right, he will eat less. And with luck, poop less too! :fingerscr
October 13th, 2006, 11:07 AM
both my dogs had dry flaky skin and my friend who runs a greyhound rescue told me to give them both evening primrose once a day, it worked a treat, no more flakes and a soft coat. x
October 13th, 2006, 02:13 PM
Hi again. I went to the Canadare website and it had no vendors listed in my area. Today I went out looking anyway and no luck! Do most people buy this online? Does anyone know of internet stores that dont charge tons for shipping? (I am in the US)
October 13th, 2006, 04:37 PM
kjml, I'm in the US too and I had my dog on Nutro for a while. She did alright with it, but she really didn't like it. It's not a bad food, it's just not the best food. It's the lowest on the holistic ladder. Take a look and see if you can find Merrick. We switched our dog to it and she loves it. I've never seen a dog more excited to eat than her. We free feed her dry food (we are lucky that she is not a dog that inhales her food) and we give her a half a can in the morning and a half a can at night. It's plenty for her and she is 65 pounds. The thing that I've found with Merrick is that it actually costs less than the Nutro. I figured it out and I'm actually paying about thirty cents less a day on the Merrick than on the Nutro and Merrick is much higher on the ladder. I actually found it by accident in a "doggie boutique", but it's now being carried in a pet supply chain here. The website did not have these places listed as a carrier of their food, but they are there. Hopefully that helps a bit. Good Luck. :thumbs up
By the way, here is the website:
One more thing, we buy the 15 lb bag of Grammy's Pot Pie for the dry food and on the website it's about $34, we pay $22 in the store. The canned food on the website is $2.38 and we pay $1.59.
October 14th, 2006, 12:05 AM
Greyhound do not need as much as other breeds as their energy is lower, so if you feed more it just turns into extra waste, Nutro Large breed more greys will need 3 to 4 cups for maintenance as their is lot fo grains and fillers, Canidae is usually 2 to 2 1/2 cups as a maintenance feeding, you might need to feed 3 temporarily if he needs extra weight on him. Compare the calories per cup on each of these foods You will know if he is at a good weight already if just the last 2 or 3 ribs show and the top of the ribs just barely show, it used to be that most trainers kept their dogs quite lean and adoption groups used to reccommend 5 to 7 pound over their racing weight was a good, but many of the race dog trainers feel the dog run better if they have more meat of their bones, so those dogs from those trainer tend to be at their ideal weight already, and often adopter got worried when their dogs lost weight and would push food into them, the dogs were not getting skinnier they were simply losing muscle since they are no longer racing, so it;s better to determine if you grey is at his ideal weight by looking at ribs and hip lones than checking his weight.
Some stores that have may not be listed on their site, , you need to look for small pet food stores (check your phone books yellow pages) and some of them if they do not have usually will often order in for you,
You can also try the other premium foods store locators to find these smaller stores that carry the premium foods
Petfood direct delivers not sure what the shipping is like as I have never ordered food onlinehttp://www.petfooddirect.com/store/brands4dept.asp?dept%5Fid=1
Kirkland signature super premium dog foods is the same food as Diamonds Naturals Lamb and Chicken formulas and is sold through Costco and Sams Clubs
I would say it is a bit better quality than the Nutro does not have corn, wheat or soy sold in a 40 lb bag and costs less which is another alternative for you probably need to feed 3 to 3 1/2 cups. http://www.diamondpet.com/products/diamond_naturals/dogs/dry_food/ A lot of adoption kennels use this and many racing kennels also use this as part of their mix(they add raw fatty ground beef, cooked or canned veggies, fruits and supplements) though they order directly from diamond foods under the breeders program and buy by the pallet full.
I am by no means well off and did spend a number of years living below the poverty line as a single mom after I left my husband, during that time I was not going to try and buy $100 brand new jeans or brand name runners but I bought what I could afford and kept in clean well maintained condition, the same goes with owning a pet I may be the lower middle income now but I am not feeding grade A sirloin to my dogs but I do look at what I can afford and buy what I thinks is best and within my means, right now its EVO I have no children at home but if for some reason my finances dropped considerably, and my affordable limit was $40 well I am going to look at all the foods withing than range, Canidae is more so that is out, Nutro is in that range but does not make sense to buy since it only comes in 30 lbs and is quite grainy , especially when the Costco brand is a better quality food, so I will buy the Costco brand and put the extra $18 into the savings account and that can help eith unexpected vet costs.
The vet can answer some questions about worms better than I can, but looks like you are doing great, and you don't need to be too overly worried you are picking up bulk so your yard is not at risk of an infestation, you can use the yard just make sure wearing shoes, The infectious larvae of some hookworm species can penetrate human skin when walking barefoot on infected soil, causing a disorder known as "cutaneous larva migrans" causing itchy red lines or tracks. This condition, however, is extremely rare and has no long-term, adverse reactions. Most incidents are resolved with or without treatment as the larvae eventually die.
wash the dogs bedding once a week if you are worried till a stool sample comes back negative, I do not know where in the US you are, but if you are in a area that has heartworm, I would recommend using interceptor monthly as it also will help to prevent him from getting worms.
Just to help set your mind at ease, pretty much evey single puppy has worms and needs to go thru 2 or 3 sets of dewormings before they are finally clear of them, hundreds of thousands of pups have been raised in the house right along with young children, I have raised 4, a couple of those around my own child and now on my fifth, plus my son and granddaughter has been around the foster dogs before and during their dewormings , breeders often have whole litters living in their house and around their children without the children getting worms from the dogs
October 14th, 2006, 12:17 AM
Kirkland signature super premium dog foods is the same food as Diamonds Naturals Lamb and Chicken formulas and is sold through Costco and Sams Clubs
I would say it is a bit better quality than the Nutro does not have corn, wheat or soy sold in a 40 lb bag and costs less which is another alternative for you probably need to feed 3 to 3 1/2 cups. http://www.diamondpet.com/products/d...dogs/dry_food/ A lot of adoption kennels use this and many racing kennels also use this as part of their mix(they add raw fatty ground beef, cooked or canned veggies, fruits and supplements) though they order directly from diamond foods under the breeders program and buy by the pallet full. If you buy the costco Kirkland brand, only the lamb and rice one doesn't have by-products. The chicken one is not the same level of quality as the lamb (according to the pamphlet they give you with samples).
October 15th, 2006, 09:22 PM
Hi, Just wanted to let you know I never was able to find the Canidae locally. More than 6 small pet shops within 20 miles and 2 large ones, no one had it! I forgot to ask if they would order it for me. I did go ahead and buy it from petfooddirect.com. Very well priced and the shipping was not bad either so if it works well with him, it is certainly ok financially.
Thanks again to all and keep your fingers crossed for us!:fingerscr
October 15th, 2006, 09:47 PM
Glad you were able to get the Canidae. Good luck and keep us posted with updates. :fingerscr
October 17th, 2006, 11:31 PM
Have no specific advice except to tell you that my dog (Maltese X w/ allergies) is on the DVP Natural Balance Venison & Brown Rice and doing wonderfully. I however, do *not* pay the $65 that another poster wrote, for the same size bag. I think mine is less than $40, maybe $45 at the most. I have noticed that the price can vary from store to store depending on a lot of factors including customer demand and product availability. If you're happy with the price you pay ordering online (for whatever food you get), then stick with it, otherwise, it often can pay to shop around (try doing it via phone to save on gas!). Here is the website for DVP, they also have a store locator (I'd search but I don't know where you are): http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/ (they also have a RAW formula which might be worth a try).
In the meantime, or for long-term, you may also want to supplement your doggie with tripe, which is (as gross as this sounds) undigested stomach contents from whichever kind of animal it's from (beef tripe is the contents of cow's stomach, etc). The lady at the store I buy all my food from says this is really good for animals who have digestive upsets because it contains a lot of really good digestive enzymes and good bacteria. She said it smells like death but her pets love it (cats & dogs). This is the brand they carry: http://www.tripett.com/index.html (I'm not sure if there are others, but this should be available online; they also have a retailer locator as well as online retailer list).
I hope that helps, good luck with your doggie, and thanks for rescuing him!
October 25th, 2006, 05:31 PM
Hi, the food that was so hard to find came, and he doesnt like it! I did the mixing for a week to go from his old nutro to this and he wont eat much at all. His poops are really loose and i am assuming he is just adapting to the new food. should i just stick with it and when he is hungry he will eat? i dont like to leave his food out all day but thats how i am doing it. its now his dinner time and his breakfast bowl is still about 1/2 full! he ate maybe a cup or so scattered throughout the day.
October 25th, 2006, 10:30 PM
Aww, that sucks. :(
If you bought a big bag, you can try bringing it back to the store you bought it from.
My doggies are loving the Evo Red meat right now... :shrug:
October 25th, 2006, 10:47 PM
It was NO WHERE to be found by me so I ordered online. Think he will eventually just get used to it? Should I add something to it to make it more appealing to him? Finding this food was such a process and I SO dont want to try something else again if he ends up digesting it well.
October 25th, 2006, 10:59 PM
You can try mixing it with something else. My doggies weren't crazy about the Natural Balance food I bought, but they eat it just to get at the Evo RM underneath.:D
Just be careful not to cater to your doggy too much because that can lead to pickiness.
October 26th, 2006, 07:41 AM
Funny, my guys loooooove it. Some Greys are really sensitive to any kind of change, especially when you first get them. Maybe try adding a bit of sodium free broth to it and see if he likes it better. You could also add a tablespoonful of canned food and mix it in really well. My furries go nuts when I do that. Greyhounds are often fed such a strange variety of foods at the racetrack that it takes them a little while to adjust to eating kibble every day.