October 11th, 2006, 08:11 PM
So, I found a cocker on petfinder I am in love with. Seems to fit Cider and my lifestyle but I haven' contacted them yet.
For the first time I have had the I seriously want a second dog talk with my mother.. and her church friends have told her 2 dogs equals more than twice the effort and trouble, versus many of the people I know say it doesn't.
So, What would you consider the major pro and cons are you your doggie family of one versus 2?
An afghan breeder I am fairly closely acquainted to thinks I should go look into really great cocker breeders, and get a puppy from one instead of adoption. She made some valid points, Cider was a bigger handful than most through puppyhood, in part to being Cider, in part how she was raised.. All the socialization in the world hasn't fixed being thrown into a petstore from her mom way too young.. And tat in picking one from a great breeder it might be a more normal process since I don't know where a shelter dog has necessarily come from..
I see her points and her concerns.. Since wow Cider's been a handful, but I also love this dog I found on petfinder..
October 11th, 2006, 08:18 PM
2 dogs = twice the expense.That's about it! Twice the fun,the loving.....and I don't have anything against people that adopt from good breeders.But I will ALWAYS tell them that a rescue is better. I only see positive things about adopting a rescue ; if an adult dog,they are (usualy,almost) already trained. And it's easier to find a dog that will fit your lifestyle because the foster family will be able to tell you if the dog is ok with dogs,cats,kids....and if you get a puppy from a breeder,it might get on Cider's nerves ?
October 11th, 2006, 08:20 PM
well you've met my 2 monsters, so... here goes
- they are great company for each other when we are not here or busy.
- play time- they tire each other out
- warmth- snuggle factor!
- the new one followed the older one and was kind of 'trained' by him
- twice the love! my 2 are so different, so we get some things from one and some from the other
-providing a loving home to another needy pup
-twice the food, vet and clean up
-i would not say twice the work though, half the work is getting started, right?
-a bit hard to walk both at the same time, but you're a good trainer, and Cider is little (less weight to be pulled by if they decide to go!)
can we see the dog on petfinder?:fingerscr
October 11th, 2006, 08:23 PM
can we see the dog on petfinder?:fingerscr
Yes please :D
October 11th, 2006, 08:42 PM
I've pretty much hit those pros and cons..
Apparently the church folk I think tried to scare her.. They aren't helpign me any.. Though I think I'll show her this thread when it plays out a little more (so please play nice for me) lol
I wish that rescue had an email addy so I could ask a few Qs to see if we are even sort of a match..
October 11th, 2006, 08:52 PM
AHHHH he's so cute ! Now I want to adopt him :p and an agility candidate too ! This dog has your name written all over him!
October 11th, 2006, 08:54 PM
MP, he's absolutely gorgeous! I say, if you really want him, go for him. There may be convenience benefits from buying from a breeder, but there are way more benefits in getting the dog you really want.
October 11th, 2006, 08:58 PM
Thanks guys, I think I'm going ot go cry now though. I'm in love with him, nearly cracked my mom on the fact I want a dog.. Dad overheard the convo and told her there is no way in hell there will be two dogs in this house.
And I am actually really upset.. Since he pays for zero when it comes to Cider.. he doesn't even have to interact with her much.. Says only stupid people have more than one dog.. which makes me want to swiftly move, which I can't do..
And while I get that it is there house, I could apparently maybe do it if I was permanently employed, yet I have a bunch of cash saved up and have worked winter and summer now.. So it's now like we free load.. *swears*
October 11th, 2006, 09:01 PM
I'm sorry your parents don't feel like you do. Don't worry,there will be other cockers in need (unfortunatly) I think I already told you I was 33 years old when I adopted my first dog !
October 11th, 2006, 09:04 PM
I dig.. My dad didn't want Cider, but she wasn't goign to the pound..
His attitude bothers me though.. he had dogs as a child.. and has been adamant against them. Kills me that Potsy is in reach and seems perfect, and I thought after the convo with my mom I was getting somewhere.. to find I am not. Makes it more upsetting.
October 11th, 2006, 09:11 PM
When I was 18 years old,a mechanic at work found a kitten inside a car's fender! He had cut his eye,he was soo small! Other guys made him a little box and kept him in the garage until the next day. I spent the evening bugging my mom,she didn't want me to take the cat home :frustrated: So when I moved out of there,I adopted 2 cats!
October 11th, 2006, 09:15 PM
I'd like to move, but can't feesably do it anytime soon. Need more of a plan worked out..
October 11th, 2006, 09:46 PM
I know it sucks....but sometimes things happen for a reason, and like Frenchy said there are often cockers in need, I'm sure when the time is right, you'll find the perfect fit.
I wish I could get a second boxer....but my bf is ADAMENT about there being only one dog in the house, so....I can't get a little sis for Buster. :(
October 11th, 2006, 09:58 PM
I know two doggies! :D I've never had just one, unless one died and the other kept on trucking...
- stronger pack
- happier doggies (if they're a good match)
- more tired doggies
- more laughs
- more hugs
- twice the fun
- double the food/vet/etc bills
- harder to train one with the other around
- stronger need for leadership (maybe not a con, but it can develop into a con quickly enough if you aren't a good leader)
- twice the mischief :evil:
But I'd say with one dog, it's up to 1.5 dogs worth of work, and with two, the max it is is 2 dogs worth, but if you're already at 1.5 you won't even notice when it goes up to 2.:D
October 11th, 2006, 10:56 PM
I have 2 doggies... and i love it, but sometimes they can make you want to pull your hair out they seem when one of them is being a little poo head so is the other, but its also much easier for them to get the excercise they need.... they run eachother out.... :) but i like having 2 dogs... i feel there is more of a balance, but i would suggest letting the dogs get to know eachother a few time (NOT JUST ONCE) to see how they interact... I still have some problems with logan and braxton, but they're getting better
October 11th, 2006, 11:03 PM
You don't say how old you are, but you are still living with mom and dad. And so you aren't quite grown up.
I'm with your dad on this one, one dog in your life is probably going to make getting out and on your own difficult enough. If you go to college, you can't take the dog with you to live in a dorm (an important part of college life, imho.) Many apartments are pet restricted (no pets at all) or require a sizeable extra deposit for the pet. Lots of roommates don't want to have someone else's pet around (loose fur, poop and pee, food and water mess, and chewed up shoes) and taking your dog into a room-mate situation can expose your dog to the possibility of abuse.
So you move out into an apartment (in a different state or province) and you can't take little Fifi with you, what then? Mom and Dad, being the loving parents, offer to take care of little Fifi until you are settled in and end up giving her a permanent home. Or you come back for little Fifi in six months and they have separation issues, and the dog's life is severely disrupted.
You may not realize it, but your Dad is acting in your best interest. If I was in his situation, I'd probably have a family dog (cause I'm a dog person, ) but you wouldn't be allowed to have a dog of your own while living under my roof. And I'd happily take the heat for keeping your options open.
October 11th, 2006, 11:05 PM
I think mafia has already moved out, but has had to move back home due to unforseeable occurrences, and Cider has been with her all the way.
Mafia's not some teenaged brat.;)
October 11th, 2006, 11:11 PM
And another nasty person hijacks my post.. Thanks but I'm not 17.. You didn't have to be nasty here or in the petstore thread.. I am aware of where they come from and wasn't getting her, felt the need to vent, but thanks for that.
I'VE BEEN TO UNIVERSITY I HAVE A DEGREE, but thanks for coming out.
Apparently you didn't read the other post? I WAS the roomate dealing with the other person's dog.. which was going to the pound at the end of university so I rescued it. Try reading a little more before you post........
My dog is already 2.. so seriously, wtf? My dog isn't the family dog, as no one ever does anything or pays anything for her but me..
October 11th, 2006, 11:15 PM
If I suggested that she was a teenaged brat, I apologize. And my reasons for thinking that she shouldn't get another dog are probably different from her dad's. I may have stated my case a little bruskly, but I know I'm right.
October 11th, 2006, 11:18 PM
God you are nasty.. You know you are right? This thread was innocent till you came along. What you are older so you can tell people off? You don't know anything about me. And all of your reasoning has been thus far shot down, but apparently that doesn't matter, you can be nasty just for the sake of it.
October 11th, 2006, 11:18 PM
ok.... time to relax breath all and relax... internet. reading easy to get things mixed up....... now that we are feeling a little more zen....
I know how you feel mafia, it can suck when they say no, but the whole their house their rules, I was actually supposed to move back home b/c of financial reason, but my 'rents said i couldnt bring moe and braxton... so i said Im not moving back, I'll starve ( the babies will eat but I will have KD for the next year ;) ) so look at the plus side, at least your parents let you have 1.... the second will just have to wait till you're on your own again.... I too fall in love when looking at petfinder (I need to stop doing it to myself) but things happen for a reason, and the right dog will come at the right time..... best of luck. (i know it sucks and here is a good place to come and vent....)
October 11th, 2006, 11:19 PM
It's ok, Angie's Man, you side with the parents every time. :D
Parents can't have it both ways. They can't make you pay rent and treat you like a roommate and expect you to ask permission for things too. You're either a roommate or a kid at home.:shrug: If they want the relationship to evolve into an adult one, they can't keep playing the parent card.:shrug:
October 12th, 2006, 12:28 AM
Gee, MP ~ I know I'm an old broad too but, honestly ? I didn't see Angie'sman answers as nasty or mean-spirited. He doesn't know you or your circumstances true enough but, he can't be expected to read every post you've ever written right ?
Anyway I was halfway to thinking Prin has a point about roomie v. child and then I remember, "Oh no wait, we're talking about parents here". I'm not sure you will ever get away from the "My house, My Rules" thinking and in some families it's stronger than others. Some parent's will try to continue to over-parent you looooong after you've flown the coop. You've heard the expression "Bella , didja ya eat?", some women hear that into their sixties...:eek:
Maybe instead of conversations on the fly, you could schedule a "family meeting". Do your prep work: make a list of all the reasons you want a second dawg and all the potential benefits and pitfalls to having a second dawg. And where there are pitfalls, you had better be able to answer how the problem will be addressed/solved. Be prepared to really listen to what your parents have to say (I don't know how you have arranged your living arrangements but if having a second four-legged body underfoot is going to have an impact on their lives then their concerns may be more than knee-jerk) and if at the end of the conversation you haven't come to an agreement, ask that they be willing to revisit the conversation in a month or so and give them a copy of your list so that they have something to read through and reconsider.
October 12th, 2006, 12:37 AM
mum, I think it was the tone.. (I'm answering because I see it too).
For example, this part:So you move out into an apartment (in a different state or province) and you can't take little Fifi with you, what then? After all mafia has been through with her dog, that's really insulting. She has stuck with this dog through thick and thin, and Cider has been so hard on her, but she has kept with her. She has done her utmost for this dog and cares for her deeply. When her roommate dumped her and couldn't care less, mafia is the one who stepped up.
And mafia isn't the type of person to jump into things without thinking of the consequences. She has been pondering and researching this 2nd dog thing for months and has brought it up before..
Living with parents is hard. When I came back from Whistler and had nowhere to stay and was severely, severely injured, my parents took me in. They accepted my independence (I had already been living on my own for 3 years), but I also didn't expect anything from them. I bought my own food, cooked my own meals, etc etc. IMO, if the lines are clearly drawn, it can be done. Your parents can be roommates (temporarily). Then again, when my dad pulled the parent crap on me, I got the heck out of there faster than you can say Boo.;)
October 12th, 2006, 12:55 AM
I know Prin ~ but we all know each other's writing styles fairly well and can put things down to ummmm... bad prose. A bit of condescension in the tone yes, nasty ~ I don't know.
I know MP (we're talkin' about ya woman !!) has been thinking of eight v. four legs o' love for quite some time. But parents will be parents... (actually mine couldn't wait to "get rid" of me, so I was lucky that way) and I say, go in with a good defence before you break out the battle gear. Who can know what their real reasoning is behind their NO! until they spell it all out? Me ? I can't imagine life BD (well actually it's now B3D) but maybe they are. Who knows? Ya gotta ask to find out ~ then negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. Heck, somedays I have to do that even with MYSELF?!?
October 12th, 2006, 07:45 AM
Mine actually wanted me home. When I finished university I was looking for somewhere else to go, especially since I did have my roomates dog now. I knew they didn';t want it. They told me they didnt care, Cider or not they wanted me home, they'd missed me.
Ever since I've worked my butt off, for pay outside this house, and for free fixing everything known to man.
While I dig parents house, parents rules, that entire post is beyond insulting. I've been to university already. When I leave yet again Cider will be going to, I'm no different than the majority on this board. Would you be leaving your pets just because you moved? I doubt it. I'm not 17....
I've dealt with the roomie situation already. Except I was the one cleaning up my roomates dogs accidents and trying to walk her when I could because she never got any walks..
Therefore great, his house his rules, but everything else was mean spiritedly nasty. You don't have to read everything I've ever written to know I don't have a puppy, I'm likely not getting another puppy anytime soon, and I've gone to hell and back with Cider. I'm looking at adult dogs for mosat of the pros mentioned by other people. And the cons would be mine alone, since Cider has never been the family's pet.
October 12th, 2006, 09:50 AM
I understand your frustration.. I too moved back in with my parents. Mainly to help them and us too with bills and whatnot. There are days where I don't mind this arrangement and then there are days where I wonder what the heck I got myself into. :p
When I was younger I was NOT allowed to have a dog of my own. So when I moved back in and decided I wanted a Saint Bernard things got a tad heated because not only did I want a dog, but I wanted a HUGE hairy drooly breed. LOL But I guess they realized that I may be their 'child' but I am no longer 'A' child. I'm fully capable of being 100% responsible for my own pets. So when we went to get Bubba I brought my Dad with us. This way he could meet the dogs and get an up close and personal view with an adult Saint.
Then when the topic came up to bring Lola home, yet another Saint Bernard, they had no problems with it. We always sat down and talked about it first, although I was tempted to just get the dog and bring it home. I knew that would just start a huge fight.
I say sit down and talk with your Dad.. Explain everything to him.. That this isn't a rash decision and that you are 100% prepared to be responsible for both dogs and that you don't expect anything from him.
I honestly think sometimes in our parents eyes we are still irresponsible children.
October 12th, 2006, 11:37 AM
Poor MP! You gotta stay away from Petfinder, Potsy is adorable and with a natural tail??!! WOW:love: !! He looks incredibly healthy considering his past!
I am totally sympathetic to your cause! Living with not just my Mum but Grandparents makes pet ownership incredibly difficult - although they aren't as adamant about no more pets as your Dad:p.
Personally, I don't think that going through a breeder guarantess anything with regards to behaviour. All it takes is one bad experience (or an anxious personality or health issues!) and any pup/dog could end up traumatized and/or need all the extra attention that a pet store/puppymill dog needs (no matter how vigilant you are!).
I think all the pro's and cons have been discussed but what has stopped me from adding a second dog is the training. I know you have similar agility goals as I do and with 2 dogs this can be incredibly difficult (especially as a "novice" handler). A friend of mine has 2 dogs that she trains in agility and flyball - it makes things busy - its not about being frazzled on the day of the trial when you have 2 dogs competing in numerous classes. The training leading up to a competition is draining - its not just a few 8 week courses, its weekly (if not daily) training sessions X 2! It can be a lot of "wasted" time driving around to classes/practices, usually with only one dog at a time! What can end up happening, is one dog shows more potential so you focus on them and the other gets to stay at home:( . There's plenty of people who manage it but this is where 2 dogs truly become double the work and expense (the cost of a single run is generally $10+ per dog). Another friend of mine has 3 dogs that she competes with, she has had to cut back on the number of trials that each of them do and only seriously competes with her youngest dog now...At last month's trial, it was $300 to enter her 3 dogs in various runs- and that's without travel costs AND with cutting back on how many runs she does with her other dogs!
October 13th, 2006, 10:24 AM
I am sorry that your dad is not cooperating! If he will not change his mind, try to just think that there is an even better dog out there for you and when the time is right, the right dog will come. I had a few Petfinder disapointments before I got Sydney, but now I have the dog I am meant to have. I know it is disapointing for you, and I hope you situation gets better soon! :sorry:
October 13th, 2006, 10:54 AM
but you are still living with mom and dad. And so you aren't quite grown up.
Sorry,but I bit my tongue long enough on this one.I lived in my dads house till I was 37.That was 3 years ago.Joined the force when I was 19.Had my daughter(moved upstairs and paid rent.)Raised my daughter on my own as I worked my butt off.And also took care of my dad.Hmmmmmm,so that made me not quite grown up yet??????
By the way,the dog's name is Cider not Fifi(Cocker spaniel not Poodle)....:)
MP.I was pretty lucky with my Dad.When I lost my first GSD Cujo.He did comment on no more dogs.Well we had a talk.But when I told him I was getting two,he nearly blew a gasget.LOL...I explained that one was being trained for my brothers new partner.And that Tron would be with us for 18 months.He was fine with that.Well he fell in love with both Yukon and tron.So here I am training two 3 month old GSD pups.It was quite the work.And yes,my dad did help.He did keep an eye on them when I came home from work.When Tron retired,he came home to us.And my dad was do happy.When I moved here 3 years ago and took the dogs,he was heartbroken.I made sure he saw them alot.But I did leave my calico Phoenix with him.It wasn't the same for him,but he was fine with that.Yes,I am bad.I left my cat and took the dogs.
MP,as it was suggested,talk to your dad.If he still says no.Then as hard as it is,just wait till you are out of the house..Then you can get even two more along with Cider.