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Disect this food, please...

coppperbelle
October 9th, 2006, 08:18 PM
Someone sent me this list of ingredients and asked me what I thought. I don't know the name of the food but love all you experts input.
ngredients
Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown
rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), white rice, oatmeal, millet, potatoes,
egg product, tomato pomace, duck, salmon, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, salmon oil
(source of DHA), choline chloride, dried chicory root, kelp, carrots, peas, apples,
tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley
flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-carnitine, Enterococcus faecieum, Lactobacillus casei,
Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus
oryzae fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper
proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine
mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement,
biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride
(vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

meb999
October 9th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), white rice, oatmeal, millet, potatoes, egg product, tomato pomace, duck, salmon, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, salmon oil (source of DHA), choline chloride, dried chicory root, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-carnitine, Enterococcus faecieum, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

The first too meat sources are inclusive of water, so once they are dehydrated (cooked), they'll probably wind up waaayyyy further down the ingredient list. The third ingredient is a meal though, so at least we know there's quite a bit of chicken in there.

i don't like the 'ocean fish meal' --- every time you have an unspecified meat, you should run away! You don't know which fish or which quality...

it's better to see whole eggs than 'egg product' (which is probably some egg by-product .... some part they couldn't use for human consumption)

I'll let the experts disect the rest!!

Goldens4Ever
October 9th, 2006, 09:47 PM
I am certainly NOT an expert, but I have learned to steer clear of tomato pomace and egg product. Tomato pomace is the skin of the tomato, which is what comes in immediate contact with pesticides; you do not know how the company cleans (or doesn't clean) the skins. According to the FDA, egg product is the dried, frozen, or liquid egg with or without the addition of ingredients. I have read that it is good to add whole eggs to dog food, but certainly not 'egg product.' I would also inquire about what exactly the 'chicken flavor' is. I hope this helps explain some of the questionable ingredients. Others on this forum will be able to provide a detailed analysis of the meat/grain content ratios as well as other the ingredients.

meb999
October 9th, 2006, 09:54 PM
About the chicken fat, I found how AAFCO defines poultry fat:

yeah but poultry fat isn't the same as chicken fat.

Prin
October 9th, 2006, 10:42 PM
Chicken fat is ok. It's a specific animal and is very digestible.

The rest has pretty much been said: tomato pomace, egg product, unspecified fish...

But keep in mind that the bulk of a food is made up with the ingredients before the first fat (in this case, the chicken fat). So all the grains after it would probably not contribute any significant nutrients, but might aggravate allergies if there are any. As for the salmon, duck, salmon oil and the veg after the fat: they're too far down to really make a difference (put in there in tiny amounts just to make the label look good, not that it's a bad thing to have them in there, though.).:shrug:

technodoll
October 9th, 2006, 10:49 PM
what i would like to know is: when "wet" meats are dehydrated during the cooking process, just how far down the ingredient list do they fall? do they still stay before the 1st source of fat? .. is there any way to know? :confused:

Prin
October 9th, 2006, 11:16 PM
I don't know. But if they lose 80% of their weight, I can't imagine they end up before the fat.

Say it's like this:
I'm not sure, but I'll say 90% of the bulk of the food comes before the first fat...
33lbs of food...
29.7lbs is before the first fat

7lbs Chicken
6lbs turkey
5lbs chicken meal
4.7lbs ocean fish meal
4lbs cracked pearled barley
3lbs whole grain brown rice
chicken fat

less 80% of the wets:
1.4lbs chicken meal
1.2lbs of turkey meal

So dehydrated it's:
6.4lbs of chicken meal total
4.7lbs ocean fish meal
4lbs cracked pearled barley
3lbs whole grain brown rice
1.2lbs of turkey meal

Now even without considering the amount of chicken fat, it's easy to see that the hydrated ones really do fall significantly low on the list (from this way of looking at it anyway).

coppperbelle
October 10th, 2006, 06:52 AM
Thank you everyone.
I had the same concerns about the egg product and tomato pomace and told the person who sent me the ingredient list. I didn't mention the ocean fish meal because I wasn't sure but it makes sense because it is non-specific fish.
My confusion comes with the other ingredients down on the bottom of the list. Things like aspergillus which I know to be mold. I am pretty sure they are not adding mold to the food but you never know. Can anyone comment on these ingredients?

Prin
October 10th, 2006, 01:40 PM
Enterococcus faecieum, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract,The first is a probiotic from the large intestine. In huge quantities it's bad, but in small quantities, it helps outcompete worse guys (he's not great himself, but then who in the large intestine is?). The Lactobacillus ones are great probiotics. The Saccharomyces cerevesiae is yeast, but they just put the fermentation product in there, not the actual yeast (which is ok, because yeast is unnecessary and can disrupt the yeasty balance- you don't want yeast outcompeting anything). Aspergillus oryzae is similar to yeast. It's also fungi used for alcohol production (sake), and I guess they're just putting some of the enzymes it produces in the food (again, they don't put the actual fungi in there).

Now you know what they all are... I can tell you that research has shown that most foods with probiotics in them have really next to none when they're tested and definitely not enough to have a significant probiotic effect on the doggy. You're better to buy your probiotics separately, but even then, they have to be consumed within a couple of weeks or they start to dramatically lose the bacterial count (they'd still be effective, but just aren't the concentration you paid for).