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Need Advise

PainMan
October 6th, 2006, 03:10 PM
My little Shi Tzu "Miss Angel" has a problem with throwing up a little. She only does it every once in awhile and I believe it is mainy just congestion. She may do this one day and then it may be a week or two before she ever does it again. She never acts like she feels bad, and still plays and is very active.

And the only time she will do this is when she first gets up in the mornings. As I said she does not do this reguarly, so I haven't been real real concerned. I have been told these type of dogs have some airway problems because their face has a little pushed in like nose. Should I be overly concerned about this? I would take her to the Vet, but I know as sure as I do, I would have a $100.00 bill probably to pay, which me being disabled, I have to be very careful with things like that.

But on the other hand, Angel is all I have and I love her very very much. If this is a serious problem, of course I would won't to take her to the vet. What do you think about this?

Don & "Miss Angel"

the gang
October 6th, 2006, 03:47 PM
she might be hungry !!!try feeding a tad at night to tie her over to the morning it might be too long in between her feedings, when do you fed her???

Pike
October 6th, 2006, 05:49 PM
Moved to more appropriate forum, and welcome!

jessi76
October 6th, 2006, 07:52 PM
What does she throw up? (I know, gross question, but if it's bile, then feeding at night may be a good idea - she may need more food, more often) What food do you feed her? Has she always been on this food? How old is she? (just trying to get more info, may help the other members give you better advice)

Can you call your vet for a phone consult? When I'm unsure to bring my dog in, I call, explain everything that's going on, and see what their advice is. My vet's office will try to advise by phone if it's something minor.

OntarioGreys
October 6th, 2006, 08:29 PM
When vomiting of bile occurs just in the mornings it is often due to a term called empty stomach syndrome, while sleeping and the tummy empty stomach acids will build up and just sit in one spot and will irritate the stomach just in one little spot, especially if they are sleeping very soundly so when they wake up they want to vomit the bile out, to ease the irritation to the stomach. If they are a little more restless at night and moving around or get a drink a water it wonlt affect them the same which is why it happens periodically in the mornings Feeding a snack at bedtime even a piece of bread or toast,a cracker, dog biscuit etc will help absorb some of the acid so it does not become an irritant. This is a problem that can occur in all breeds. Give it a try and see if it helps ,if she starts having other problems and starts vomiting more frequently and at other times of the day a vet visit will be necessary. Try pocketing a bit of money away in a savings account on a regular basis to help create an emergency fund for Angel also do a search online for vet financial assistance for those on government assistance in your state, there may be free spay and vaccine clinics, it is good to know where to find assistance before an emergency occurs, so you are not having to waste precious time searching after the fact, talk to your vet they may know of something also find out if they accept Carecredit or will they accept payments in an emergency, if not and don't wish to you may want to check out if there are any vets if your area that does, as it can help if the event a sudden illness or injury in the event you are unable to make a payment all in one shot
http://www.carecredit.com/patients/whatis.htm

PainMan
October 6th, 2006, 09:16 PM
Thanks for the replies. I have been feeding Angel about 3 small meals a day. She likes boiled white chicken breast. And occasionally I will give her a piece of boiled ham for something different. And then she gets occasional Doggie treats that come from the store. She doesen't throw up every day. Sometimes she may even go 2 weeks or so and not do it. Sometimes I will hear her snorting a little. And I have seen her right after she gets up in the morning rub the side of her nose on the carpet on each side. I believe she becomes congested overnight.

She doesn't ever act like she doesn't feel well, and plays all the time. You know how sometimes we ourselves get up in the mornings and have to clear our throats or blow our noses? I believe it is something similar to that. I have never seen any suntances in what she throws up that looks like food or anything else. It just looks watery and a little slimy. Thats why I thing it is congestion or a respatory problem or maybe an allergy of some sort.

I have a good Vet and in fact that is where I got her at. She has had all of her shots and she takes a worm pill each month. She is the light of my life. I live alone and I am an amputee on the left side. If it were not for her I don't know what I would do. We are incredibly close to one another. She is very very loving.

She sleeps in the bed with me at night with her little head up on my pillow. She has to shower me woith kisses every night before we turn in. She sleeps through the night very good, and sometimes about 3:00am or so I might have to get up with her to take her to pee pee, and then she gets back in the bed and goes right back to sleep. I love her so very much. I have to make my Vet visits count being on a fixed income. She is due for her annual check up in January. Thanks again for the replies.

Don & "Miss Angel"

OntarioGreys
October 6th, 2006, 10:20 PM
It could very well be than, typically the vomit will be yellow if a result of empty tummy syndrome, sounds like she is well loved. I suspected you were on a fixed income which is why I made some of the suggestions I did. ;)

Prin
October 6th, 2006, 10:47 PM
I don't think boiled chicken breast is enough. I mean, it doesn't have all the nutrition she needs on a regular basis...:shrug:

Shaykeija
October 6th, 2006, 11:20 PM
Ham is a no no also. I have a Can- American Shih Tzu Champion. Chicken breast alone is not enough. Pork can make you dog ill. Try a good dry food like dick van Patton. You only have to feed about a cup a day. You can add veggies to her diet also. The face rubbing is just something they do. Tyra rubs her face on my hall walls. I feed Tyra 3 times a day plus 2 snacks. If your little one is as fussy as mine, wet the dry food and add a bit of chicken. Do a food change over slowly or you will get pooperville. Yep the pukies sound like she is just hungry in the morning. A light meal at night will help with the morning upchuckies.

rainbow
October 6th, 2006, 11:25 PM
I agree with Prin. Are you feeding her something else besides the boiled chicken to balance out her diet?

bethaliz
October 7th, 2006, 03:22 PM
Having 8 Shih Tzu's in the family (only one is mine), and now I"m working under a breeder to learn to show and breed, I think I've seen it all! lol Just about anyway.

Lesson 1 in SHih Tzu's

The snort. It happens. I have heard and seen all of our dogs, and the breeders dogs, do the snorting thing. It sounds like they are going to throw up, but they don't (sometimes they do). It's just like when we eat and something goes down the wrong pipe. Just pet and calm her. It will pass, it's not congestion or anything like that. If your dog was congested you'd know. She would breath funny, very loudly and wezzy (this also happens where they are puppies and go through the pinched nostril stage). She might also get runny nosy. They rarely throw up from congestion (they don't get enough air to throw up) although it does happen.

Lesson 2

Shih Tzu's, just like any other breed needs a balanced diet. This includes, protien, fat, carbs, veggies. All of the vitamins and Minerals that you need to make you healthy, so does your dog. IF you want to continue to make her home cooked meals, that's great! Just talk to your vet and get a recipe that will provide all of the nutrients that she's going to need.

Lesson 3

Dogs throw up. Every dog has or will throw up for no reason at some point. Biscut (my aunt's dog) Throws up all the time, his stomach can't digest kibble and it needs to be wet down. He is also allergic to chicken and Wheat which make him itch and throw up. He's they only Shih Tzu that I know (I know there are others) that throw up for a real reason reason.

Roxie hardly ever throws up, but once every couple of months, she wont feel well, or she'll eat a bug, or grass and she'll get sick. Sometimes she'll eat to fast, throw it up and eat it slower. She's not sick, she's fine, she just had an upset.

The general rule we follow is this. If it's not persistant, it's not a worry. To explain that a litte. If Roxie throws up, I comfort her and clean it up. I'm not worried. If 30 mins later she threw up again, I'd be a little concerned. If she kept throwing up every 30 mins or every couple of hours, I'd be taking her to the vet ASAP, because something is wrong. If Roxie threw every day, I'd beconcerned. I'm not going to worry myself if she throws up once or twice a month.

You do take notice, though. I know that if Roxie eat's grass, she'll throw up. Just because every summer, I see her eat grass and in a few hours she throws up. It's just an observation. I'm not worried. It's just something you learn and pick up with your dog.

In your case. It sounds like she doesn't get enough all around nutrition to keep her level all day. Dogs, especially small ones, like Shih Tzu's can develop hypoglicemia. This means that they do not have a constant sugar level. Improper nutirtion is a huge contributing factor.

So don't stress about it too much, but definately get her on a more balanced diet. That should help. If it peresists, ask your vet the next time you go in for a check up.

PainMan
October 7th, 2006, 07:46 PM
Angel does get some other things besides Boiled chicken breast. Add to that, she has some what I call crunches that I leave in a bowl beside her water dish, and although I call it her crunches, it is really Pedigree Dry dog food. She also gets an occasional treat that I get at the store that are made for dogs.

She had never had a problem with not wanting to eat, and she never acts like she doen't feel well. She is always full of energy and ready to play with me. I do want to feed her the best thing that I can for her, I have just never really known what that was. She really likes the chicken and eats it readily. And like I said before, she only throws up on rare occassions and it is always early in the morning right after she wakes up.

What would be a good diet for a 2 year old Shi Tzu? I want to keep "Miss Angel" around for a long time. I don't have anyone else but her, and she is my whole life. She is the first thing I am concerned with when I wake up, and the last thing I am concerned with before I go to bed. She loves me just as much as I love her. She really has a good life.

I talk to her all day long, and I can tell you she understands more of what I say than you may think. She keeps me from being so lonely as I was before I got her. Iam glad she is only 2, and I hope to have her around for many years. The way things have been going here lately, she may out live me. I have probably had 6 surgeries in the last couple of years. I had about 12 surgeries on my left leg over the years before they decided to amputate it.

You ought to see Angel turn her head from side to side when I take my leg off at night. Sometimes she is sooo funny. This is a good place and I am glad I came across it. I have just come here, and so many of you have come forth to help answer my questions about my sweet Angel. I appreciate each one that has replied.

Don & "Miss Angel" (PainMan)

Prin
October 8th, 2006, 03:02 AM
I'm sorry about all your surgeries. That must be hard.:grouphug:

I talk to her all day long, and I can tell you she understands more of what I say than you may think.Hey, you don't have to convince us. We're all just as nutty as you.:D

Well.. ok... Pedigree isn't the best food. There are better, more natural foods on the market. Check out the food forum here. We talk a lot about holistic diets and raw.:)

Throwing up bile in the morning can be from the stomach being too empty, which is possible with Pedigree, mainly because it has so many digestive aids that speed up the digestion so the belly ends up empty quicker. On a more natural food, the dog digests more on its own which takes longer. Feeding a bit before bed time might help, but then again, if she's digesting too fast, it won't.:shrug:

OntarioGreys
October 8th, 2006, 08:39 AM
THe main ingredients in pedigree


Ground Corn
Chicken By-Product Meal
Corn Gluten Meal
Meat and Bone Meal
Animal Fat (preserved with BHA/BHT)
Rice
Digest of Poultry By-Products

first and third ingredients are corn which means the food consist mostly of corn, with almost no meat, great if she was a cow not so great for dogs

Chicken By-Product Meal - this is the waste products from processing chicken, it might be un developed egg, feet, intestines but really no meat in it.

Animal Fat (preserved with BHA/BHT) - when no specific animal is named it means that fat is obtained from a rendering plant which will process any kind of dead animal, which would consist of wildlife road kill some which will have started decomposing already and some which would be diseased, you will also dead livestock that may have sat in a field for a few days, they could have died of disease, they could have been euthanize with chemical injection, and this is then preserved with BHA/BHT a chemical preservation that can cause liver damage

Rice which is more grain on top of what you already have, but it is the only good food ingredient in the the bag as they are using a whole grain rice, not husks or leftovers from breweries.

Digest of Poultry By-Products is a concentrated broth made from bird by products (like mentioned above under chicken by-products) only difference is it can consist of any kind of bird including crow

Meat and Bone Meal again no specified meat source so comes from a rendering plant could include animals like skunks, rats, raccoons, deer dead pets hit by a car, or any old and or diseased livestock this also means each time you by a new bag the mix is a bit difference and that alone can cause tummy upsets or diarreaha until the pet adjusts to the changes, when another bag is bought it is again slightly difference and could the problems to reoccur,

Though this site is about low quality ingredients in cat food they are also poor quality for dogs as well so helpful in understanding what ingredients in foods to avoid.
http://www.mindspring.com/~kerspin/LowQualityIngred.htm
Most pet foods that you find in grocery stores are going to contain poor ingredients

I realize that cost for you is going to be important,
one suggestion is KIrkland Signature from Costco about $20 for a 40 lb bag

The costco kirkland Lamb and rice formula Lamb, Lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, rice flour, white rice, egg product, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved witn mixed tocoperols and Vitamine E), beet pulp, potatoes, fishmeal, flaxseed, natural flavor, milet, brewers dried yest, carrots, peas, choline chloride, rosemary extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, taurine, vitamin E suppliment, iron proteinate, copper proteninate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteniate, manganous oxide, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bivulfite (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid



I know some may pick it apart because it contains beet pulp, beet pulp is from the sugar beet with the sugar removed and is used as a source of fiber to help keep the stools firm and has brewers yeast, the chicken and rice formula would eliminate the brewers yeast but either formula is going to be a heck of a lot better than the pedigree, my next recommendation would be Canidae which contains even more meat that are human grade mostly hormone free and pesticide free grains the cost per bag will be higher but you feed less since it is nutrient dense so feedings per day would be between 1/2 a cup to 1 cup depending how active she is, there is a store locator on the site http://www.canidae.com/dogs/all_life_stages/dry.html
the feeding amount for the diamond/kirkland brand is 1 - 1 1/2 cups the cost for a 40lb bag is likely around $30 in the US the cost per l day to feed will be almost the same add to it the fact you do not need a club membership to buy, Canidae also has a free bag program, once you buy either 10 or 12 bags(not sure which) you get a free bag you have to talk the store to find out how they handle the free bag offer some require you to save the reciepts at my store they keep a file that they update each time you buy a bag and they will let you know when you and earned the free bag, several of the premium dog food companies offer this type of free bag deal.

If you do decide to change foods do a slow transition over a couple of weeks gradually adding more of the new and less of the old so as to not shock her digestive system some dogs can handle an all in one shot food change and others will have a lot of problems so best to play it safe

rainbow
October 8th, 2006, 11:52 AM
I agree with changing her food. Pedigree Pal is not very healthy for her. In fact, none of the dog foods that are sold at the supermarket or places like WalMart are any good. Do you have a pet store near you? Are you able to get Canidae where you live?

PainMan
October 8th, 2006, 02:32 PM
Angel gets more chicken Breast than she does anything. The only reason I give her the Pedigree is to give her something crunchy. I have read somewhere that almost all store bought dogfood is not really all that good. What wouold be god to give her besides the Chicken I give her now? She really like the chicken breast although it is expensive. She acts like she is really healthy, but I have been thinking myself she probably needs something in addition to the chicken breast. Maybe some veggies or something?

Don & "Miss Angel"

badger
October 8th, 2006, 04:00 PM
I think if you tried a more complete kibble, as OntarioGreys has explained in her post above, your dog would be better off. Then, since she would be getting good nutrition from that, the chicken would be just an occasional treat. Better quality kibble has veggies in it but you could supplement it with raw carrots, apples, broccoli, etc. I know dogs who get carrots and apples for snacks. They love them! and raw veggies are good for their teeth. Give her very small quantities at first (for instance, a teaspoon of grated carrot), so her stomach has time to adapt.
She's adorable!

Prin
October 8th, 2006, 04:22 PM
I think for her, Nature's Variety dog food would be best. It's got a ton of variety in there, that might "fix" what she's lacking.
http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?page=1321&-session=naturesvariety:42836EBF189c6279A3Ggh2B3630 A
(check out the menu on the left for all the different kibble formulas)

Angies Man
October 8th, 2006, 05:03 PM
In this forum, there's a section on dog nutrition. Spend an afternoon and read the posts in that section--it will give you a lot of suggestions for feeding your dog.

But for now, I'll try to give you the "digested" version.

First, cats are carnivores (eat mostly meat.) But dogs diets are a lot like humans diets, we're omnivores, so are dogs--that is we can't live just on meat and neither can your dog. Angel needs more than just boiled chicken breast to be healthy. She'll fill up on it, but you're not doing her any favor by just feeding her boiled chicken.

And corn meal (and corn byproducts) is really bad stuff, not just for dogs, but for people, cows (read up sometime about why feed lot cattle need so many antibiotics to survive long enough to make it to the slaughterhouse--it's the corn!) and other animals. Don't feed your dog food that contains corn! Pedigree, and all the other dog food from the grocery, are full of corn and soy (and other bad stuff, too.)

Dogs (and people, and cows, etc.) can't digest corn! So it either goes right through or it sits in the intestines and bowel and ferments--that evil poopy gas! It encourages the growth of nasty yeasts in the gut. Not something you want for you or your dog.

Throw that stuff away!

Dogs like and need a complex diet. It should contain meat poultry or fish, vegetables, fats (omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids,) complex carbohydrates (like brown rice, wheat germ,) and fruit. If you have a choice between veggie oil and animal fat, choose the veggie oil. To this mix, you need to add food quality bone meal (from a health food store), some fish oil, digestive enzymes, and a doggy type multivitamin/mineral supplement. My dog gets yogurt or yogurt/cottage cheese everyday. Dogs don't need added sugars of any sort! Balance in the diet is key. You can

Feeding your dog only food that "tastes" good (like only feeding her chicken breast) only guarantees that she'll be a picky eater. Feeding her an unbalanced diet or poor quality dog food pretty much guarantees that she'll have health problems in the future.

This is serious stuff--feed your dog wrong, and she'll be more sickly and probably die younger than if you feed her a healthy balanced diet.

Period!

Prin
October 8th, 2006, 06:03 PM
Throw that stuff away!or give it to a shelter who is willing to take it. Some food is better than no food at all for them.:)