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i kicked a dog last night!

technodoll
October 5th, 2006, 08:27 PM
last night i was walking with maika on a narrow city sidewalk and some idiot had long-leashed his dog to a parking meter in front of the grocery store, and this big black dog started barking, snarling and snapping at us when we tried to pass :eek: little maika just looked at him cocking her head and pressing close to me, 3 other people were also trying to pass this ill-behaved brat, and there was no option to go in the busy street to make a huge detour.

I tried to shush him, said "no!", but that dog was out of his mind! so little me in soft rubber rainboots did the only thing i could think of in this situation and just kicked my foot up against his jaw, not hard but it surprised the heck out of him! he immediately stopped the racket, backed up and sat down, and stayed down, wouldn't look at me! the 3 people waiting to pass THANKED ME and smiled, everybody was relieved, nobody was hurt (just the dog's pride maybe). I mean come ON, it's a public sidewalk, if you own psycho-dog at least muzzle him when you're inside the freaking store :mad: anyways. as i told hubby, i love all dogs but i don't have to like 'em! :evil:

Frenchy
October 5th, 2006, 08:55 PM
Good for you TD, too bad you couldn't do the same to the owner:evil:

technodoll
October 5th, 2006, 09:04 PM
frenchy i waited for a little bit but no luck... :evil:

Lissa
October 5th, 2006, 09:54 PM
:frustrated: What is wrong with people?? Do they not have any common sense?? Or maybe they're in denial about how behaved their dog is.

Inverness
October 5th, 2006, 10:32 PM
I don't understand. Is is not only the pitbulls who behave this way ? :frustrated:

technodoll
October 5th, 2006, 10:41 PM
hah! unless this big nasty lab-mix fancied himself to be a prize fighter... :evil: he was quickly reminded by my rubber boot that NO, he was not in the ring! hrrmph. :frustrated: i just wish i could have clipped his owner and not him, though!!

ByronsMum
October 5th, 2006, 11:24 PM
Similar thing happened to hubby a few years ago with a neighbour's dog. She has had GSDs for as long as he can remember, and constantly left them outside, sometimes without a leash. Therefore, the dogs were not socialized at all. One day, hubby was walking his parents' dog, Kylie, and when they passed this lady's house, the GSD bolted towards them, teeth bared, and ready to attack. Hubby squared himself in front of Kylie and just as the dog was about to jump, hubby booted him in the jaw. The GSD left, and when James got home, he called the owner of the dog about it and she just brushed the comment off.

As you can imagine, her dogs never live more than 4-5 years...and each time one of them passes, she SOMEHOW manages to get another one....

And I also wish you could have told the owner where to go!! :mad:

Prin
October 6th, 2006, 01:37 AM
So by kicked you mean... wait... what do you mean? I can't picture what you did.:confused:

I kicked a doggy once in public... It was a really aggressive lab/shep mix. The wife had no idea that during the day the hubby was encouraging her aggression, but everybody at the park knew. So when she got a hold of the sweetest, most naive, happy little lab ever and wouldn't let go, I booted her in the ribs (flat foot, of course) and got her off. The woman went nuts on me, and I just screamed back about what an a** her husband is, and how everybody here knows what the dog is capable of because her husband encourages her and I'm not going to sit there and watch while one of the best dogs around gets mauled. Anyway, she stopped coming to the park and stopped letting her man walk the dog alone. I swear, if I caught my man doing that he would get the wrath of me.:mad:

K9Friend
October 6th, 2006, 08:04 AM
I think tying a dog outside is wrong & cruel and would never do it but I also think it's wrong to be kicking any dog (unless your own life was in danger). You're lucky that dog didn't bite your foot off and I swear to god if I ever saw someone kick my dog at a dog park - they'd be very VERY sorry! :evil: Dogs are dogs - they are not always going to like each other (just like people). Think of them as kids - kids fight all the time - do you go around kicking them too?! Geez...:frustrated:

phoenix
October 6th, 2006, 08:22 AM
I kind of agree...

I have kicked my own dog once, as Prin said flat footed, because he went snarly at another dog at the park who took his ball. The idea was to move him immediately without getting my hands in there. But I wouldn't kick a dog like a soccer ball, especially in the face! While that owner shouldn't have let his/her dog terrorize the sidewalk, my understanding is no one was in immediate danger, right? The dog was tied?

Someone should have went into the store and told the owner what the dog was doing so that they could take care of it. And, if they didn't, well then there are other avenues than hurting the dog. If your own dog went off like that in public, I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't kick it as punishment. AND no one on the board would advocate that as a good disciplinary measure should you be running into that problem with your own dog :shrug: so I don't think it's right to do it to a strange one. Who knows the training issues that you might have set back or caused.

My Maia barks and snarls in fear of strangers. We're working on it (and I don't leave her tied up alone places!!) but if anyone kicked her, I think she'd swear off humans forever. The fact that this dog took it from you says to me that he is a shy one.

Golden Girls
October 6th, 2006, 08:41 AM
I tie my dogs outside all the time when I have to run an errand. Mind you their secured and separated not leaving alot of roaming space and I can see them at all times. But when a dog walks by you would swear they were trained to attack. The thing is dogs become very aggressive if they feel they can't defend themselves and act this way out of natural instinct.

Surely you could of back-tracked? I'll tell you if you ever kicked my dog I can promise you it would never happen again. The owner is obvious at fault knowing or should know this ... I do think you are lucky not only did the dog not bite your foot off, the owner didn't see you! Poor dog is all I can say.

technodoll
October 6th, 2006, 09:41 AM
Let me repeat: very narrow sidewalk. Nowhere else to pass. Dark rainy night. Very aggressive big black male dog tied to a post in front of a busy store, on a LONG leash, blocking the whole sidewalk. Snarling, barking, lunging at the end of the leash, trying to attack MY little, quiet girl - and maybe biting ME in the process. 3 other people cringing on the other side, not able to pass. I did what comes naturally to someone trying to protect herself and her dog on a PUBLIC property (not in a dog park, not in someone's back-yard or home). I snapped the flat of my SOFT RUBBER BOOT on the dog's chin to jerk its attention off my dog and allow everyone access to the PUBLIC sidewalk. The damn dog was so surprised, it immediately backed away, sat down, and was utterly quiet.

No, I did not have time to tie MY dog to a tree, go inside the busy grocery store yelling at the top of my lungs "whose dog is that outside?" so I could give THEM a kick in the pants for endangering the public. No, I did not back-track the entire block to cross to the other side of the street and continue my walk: why should I? I pay my taxes like everybody else and have the right to enjoy the sidewalk and do NOT have to endure some jerk's psychotic dog terrorizing me, my dog, and everybody else trying to use that route. If the owner is too stupid to teach his dog to behave, then somebody else has to (for their own protection).

I knew I would not get bitten, I was too fast and came from the side, not the front of his face. It was a kick meant to surprise, not to hurt (if you met me, you would understand how hard it would be for me to hurt any dog, LOL). BTW it felt damn good, and I would do it again if I had to :evil: As a responsible dog owner a) my dogs are trained to stay quiet and to stay put if they are tied outside a shop for a few minutes, and the leash is very short. or b) if my dog could not behave, I would never put the public in danger like that and risk getting sued and my god PTS. OK imagine that dog, in its snarling frenzy, had accidentally snagged a baby in a stroller trying to pass by? Would your judgement of the situation been different then?... would the parent have been given a green light to beat that dog on the head, and then bring the owner to court?...

anyways, you might not all agree with my actions BUT you were not in my shoes and cannot say 100% what you would have done, or not, in that situation. My conscience is clear, my dog is safe, and that's all I care about. :pawprint:

phoenix
October 6th, 2006, 10:14 AM
Aw TD you know I respect you and your love for dogs...

I still don't agree with you about this one. Just imagine if someone did it to your guy. That dog was probably freaking out at being alone, unable to defend himself, unable to run with lots of people coming at him. We all know that striking a dog isn't the way to stop that. It worked for you in this case, but it really could have made things worse.

Anyway, I guess you don't care what I think so I'll leave it.

technodoll
October 6th, 2006, 10:26 AM
no no i believe in good discussions :) or else i wouldn't have posted this controversial story, would I? :rolleyes:

I hope you all know me well enough to figure out i meant no harm and was only acting out of "maternal instinct"... in these stressful situations, we don't always have time to analyse everything and just go into "action mode". In retrospect I could have done things differently, but I didn't, and just recounted what happened to get a different perspective on things.... Like they say: "hindsight is 20/20 vision". but i don't regret my actions though, and that doesn't make me a bad person or a dog-hater, on the contrary, i love all dogs... i just don't have to LIKE all of them :D

yes you are right, I blame the owner and not the dog. But when there is no owner in sight, sometimes you gotta do, what you gotta do. Please remember the dog was not hurt (my very sensitive foot, encased in a soft rubber boot, attests to that fact) :dog:

PS: on another note, while walking home from work yesterday a guy in jetta almost missed a corner stop sign and bumped into a guy walking his baby in a stroller :eek: can I tell you the screaming match that ensued? baby was crying its head off, dad was ready to bash the driver's face in, some woman ran up to hold the crying baby, it was a mess. Quiet neighborhood street, 5pm. It must have been that kind of few days... aggro in the air :shrug:

Prin
October 6th, 2006, 11:28 AM
I swear to god if I ever saw someone kick my dog at a dog park - they'd be very VERY sorry! :evil: Dogs are dogs - they are not always going to like each other (just like people). Think of them as kids - kids fight all the time - do you go around kicking them too?! Geez...:frustrated:omg, if you let your dog maul another dog in a dog park and just stand by saying "dogs will be dogs", you should not be in dog parks. And if your dog was mauling somebody else's dog (who isn't even defending herself), I would jump in and get your dog off by whatever means necessary. And if you even tried to complain, YOU would be the one getting reported for having an aggressive dog in public that you have no control over.

For techno's boot, I guess nobody knows how they'd handle an encounter with a vicious dog until it happens to them. Chances are nobody here would have sat there waiting endlessly for the owner (who has already proven himself to be irresponsible) before taking action.

vfrohloff
October 6th, 2006, 11:43 AM
If someone is so ignorant as to leave their aggressive dog tied up where it could potentially hurt someone, then they should consider themselves lucky that the only harm that came to their dog was a boot in the chops. Another passerby may not have been so kind. JMHO.

K9Friend
October 6th, 2006, 11:48 AM
omg, if you let your dog maul another dog in a dog park and just stand by saying "dogs will be dogs", you should not be in dog parks. And if your dog was mauling somebody else's dog (who isn't even defending herself), I would jump in and get your dog off by whatever means necessary. And if you even tried to complain, YOU would be the one getting reported for having an aggressive dog in public that you have no control over.

For techno's boot, I guess nobody knows how they'd handle an encounter with a vicious dog until it happens to them. Chances are nobody here would have sat there waiting endlessly for the owner (who has already proven himself to be irresponsible) before taking action.

I go to dog parks all the time. I have seen aggressive dogs and I would never kick one and if I know a dog is known to be aggressive - I won't let my dog interact with it. I do know how to break up a dog fight. Kicking a dog isn't the solution and a stupid one.

I would have walked around the dog that was tied up. Yes, I would have taken the detour and then probably would have gone inside to find out who the owner was. It's not the dog's fault it's out there. It's only defending itself and its territory. Normal reaction.

Prin
October 6th, 2006, 11:51 AM
I go to dog parks all the time. I have seen aggressive dogs and I would never kick one and if I know a dog is known to be aggressive - I won't let my dog interact with it. I do know how to break up a dog fight. Kicking a dog isn't the solution and a stupid one.It's not a dog fight if only one is mauling.

And what would you do? If one was mauling your dog, and your dog was pinned underneath it, what would you do?

technodoll
October 6th, 2006, 11:59 AM
It's not the dog's fault it's out there. It's only defending itself and its territory. Normal reaction.


sorry but... NO. it is NOT a normal reaction. in this city, hundreds of dogs are left tied out in front of restaurants & shops every day on busy public sidewalks and i can assure you, MOST of the dogs are very normal, they sit quietly or lay down and just ignore you or wag their tails for a pat on the head. they are not snarling threats. it is NOT their property to protect, people have to walk these narrow sidewalks littered with bikes, strollers, benches, kids, etc - what are you going to do if an aggro dog is tied to your parking meter and you can't get near it to plug in some coins? just shrug and say oh well, it's a normal dog behavior, i guess i'll just get a $37 parking ticket then. I think NOT!

when you live in the city, you have to SHARE the space. If you cannot train your dog to play nice, then it doesn't belong tied out in public without any supervision, IMO. That is just a lawsuit waiting to happen! :mad:

K9Friend
October 6th, 2006, 12:00 PM
I'd grab the dog's back legs like a wheelbarrow and pull it away. It's as simple as that. You're taking a chance kicking it - when a dog is that furious and mad (especially if it's MAULING), it'll bite anything in it's way not knowing what it's biting.

Do you considers dogs who snarl or growl at one another at a dog park - aggressive??

Prin
October 6th, 2006, 12:01 PM
I would have walked around the dog that was tied up. Yes, I would have taken the detour and then probably would have gone inside to find out who the owner was. It's not the dog's fault it's out there. It's only defending itself and its territory. Normal reaction.

BTW, if you read techno's posts, she could NOT go around:
Let me repeat: very narrow sidewalk. Nowhere else to pass. Dark rainy night. Very aggressive big black male dog tied to a post in front of a busy store, on a LONG leash, blocking the whole sidewalk.

K9Friend
October 6th, 2006, 12:03 PM
sorry but... NO. it is NOT a normal reaction. in this city, hundreds of dogs are left tied out in front of restaurants & shops every day on busy public sidewalks and i can assure you, MOST of the dogs are very normal, they sit quietly or lay down and just ignore you or wag their tails for a pat on the head. they are not snarling threats. it is NOT their property to protect, people have to walk these narrow sidewalks littered with bikes, strollers, benches, kids, etc - what are you going to do if an aggro dog is tied to your parking meter and you can't get near it to plug in some coins? just shrug and say oh well, it's a normal dog behavior, i guess i'll just get a $37 parking ticket then. I think NOT!

when you live in the city, you have to SHARE the space. If you cannot train your dog to play nice, then it doesn't belong tied out in public without any supervision, IMO. That is just a lawsuit waiting to happen! :mad:

Again, what that person did with their dog wasn't right. I agree 100% with you on that. I don't agree with leaving a dog unattended outside. People are cruel out there - dog could have been stolen, poisoned and threatened. I still don't think it's right that you kicked it. You should have gone and kicked the owner instead if you wanted to kick something.

technodoll
October 6th, 2006, 12:05 PM
yep. if you don't believe me, go there youself: it's on Mont-Royal, corner Colonial, in front of the Intermarché. Going east, on the left you have the supermarket, on the right you have cars parked bumper to bumper, and whizzing traffic beyond that. :frustrated:

jessi76
October 6th, 2006, 12:06 PM
It's only defending itself and its territory. Normal reaction.

that's acceptable at HOME, not in public. the sidewalk isn't "it's territory". Dogs who go in public, and *gasp* are tied outside a store, should be well behaved citizens. If not, they should be under the complete control of the owner when out and about. (well, all should be under control, and I can't understand for the life of me why someone would tie their dog up outside in public, then leave - even to run into a store - the thought would NEVER cross my mind)

I do not believe in disciplining other's kids/dogs/whatever in public, however, each situation is different. I understand TDs reation, she did what she felt necessary.

and I too, would protect my own dog BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. no if's and's or but's about it. I made that commitment to him, to protect & care for him, to the best of my ability. if it means redirecting an agressive dog with my boot, so be it. and from what I understood of the story, she didn't kick the dog like a soccer ball, she used her BOOT to interrupt the agression.

technodoll
October 6th, 2006, 12:07 PM
You should have gone and kicked the owner instead if you wanted to kick something.


trust me i wanted to :eek: ... but i had my dog with me, remember?... sometimes, you can't be perfect no matter what, you can only do your best as the situation (and your adrenaline) calls for. :pawprint:

Prin
October 6th, 2006, 12:07 PM
I'd grab the dog's back legs like a wheelbarrow and pull it away. It's as simple as that. You're taking a chance kicking it - when a dog is that furious and mad (especially if it's MAULING), it'll bite anything in it's way not knowing what it's biting.

Do you considers dogs who snarl or growl at one another at a dog park - aggressive??
Yeah, I'm talking about growling. I'm sooooo uncomfortable with growling. Did you forget who my dog is?(sarcasm)

I've been clear all along that the dog I booted was MAULING.

And it's not a chance. When dogs fight, they get into a trance and you just have to break the trance. When screaming doesn't work, you have to do other things to break the trance. If it's two dogs, both going at it, that's one thing, but one dog mauling is another. Before Jemma and Boo, I had a very aggressive lab, and I grew up breaking up dog fights and have never been bitten. She was the mauler in every case (we never brought her out in public, obviously, but dogs can still come onto your own property). So, no, I don't see it as a chance as I have done it a kajillion times before without even coming close to being bitten. (btw, the rib cage is not "in the way" of the fighting or the teeth. Unless your dog has funny anatomy or something...)

Personally, I don't trust that wheelbarrow thing. People here have mentioned it before. Dogs have incredible abdominal muscles and could easily whip around to bite. Don't count on it being safer.

technodoll
October 6th, 2006, 12:11 PM
and I too, would protect my own dog BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. no if's and's or but's about it. I made that commitment to him, to protect & care for him, to the best of my ability. if it means redirecting an agressive dog with my boot, so be it. and from what I understood of the story, she didn't kick the dog like a soccer ball, she used her BOOT to interrupt the agression.

jessi, that's exactly what i did... i had no intention of hurting the dog or getting hurt (i wasn't wearing steel-toed boots!), just wanted to take its attention off my little girl and get on with my walk peacefully. My mom instincts kicked in (no pun intended) and hey, ***** happens sometimes y'know? :shrug:

Schwinn
October 6th, 2006, 12:21 PM
I don't condone kicking a dog either, but I also know that I'm not sure what I would do in the same situation. I've encountered dogs while mountain biking, and I had one lunge at my face. I realized later that, had I not been climbing and needed both hands on the bars, I would have clocked the dog. (I had started clenching my fist, but couldn't let go of the bar).

So, while I can't say I would agree with what you did, I can also say it's easy to play armchair quarterback. Not only that, it doesn't sound like you actually "kicked" the dog, as much as you shoved it.


PS: on another note, while walking home from work yesterday a guy in jetta almost missed a corner stop sign and bumped into a guy walking his baby in a stroller :eek: can I tell you the screaming match that ensued? baby was crying its head off, dad was ready to bash the driver's face in, some woman ran up to hold the crying baby, it was a mess. Quiet neighborhood street, 5pm. It must have been that kind of few days... aggro in the air :shrug:

That happened to me a couple of weeks ago while I was jogging with Grace. The woman was backing out and didn't bother to look. Except just before she hit the stroller, I managed to lay the fist to the back of the car, and she stopped less than an inch from the side of the stroller. Another example, I guess, because I've been walking down the street and almost been hit, and I've just kind of shrugged it off. It's amazing what we do when we think our loved ones are in danger.

Frenchy
October 6th, 2006, 12:22 PM
There is no doubt in my mind,I would kick a dog anyday if I or my dogs were threaten by it,if the owner is not there to take action,you don't really have time to,find a spot to tie your dog,come back,go in the store,ask for the owner,I mean come on!!!

technodoll
October 6th, 2006, 12:29 PM
frenchy... exactly :o

Golden Girls
October 6th, 2006, 12:30 PM
I don't think anyone was in danger here. If it were an aggressive dog one boot would of done nothing. I'm not saying if your life or your dog's was in danger not to do everything possible but common :rolleyes:

Yes you pay taxes and have every right to walk on the sidewalk but that does not give you the right to boot a dog. It would however give you the right to either tie your dog and look for the owner or even wait for the owner or chance directions. I can't even count how many times I have to do this. It's not right and it could be inconvenient but hey beats being a bully! The dog didn't tie himself there so y take it out on him :confused:

Either way I think this was completely unneccesary and the worst part is you said you'd do it again and that it felt good, that's the part that's very disturbing :confused:

Prin
October 6th, 2006, 12:30 PM
Yeah, and who knows what store the twit is in on top of that. You're going to leave Maika (who is pretty stealable herself) tied outside while you go door to door?

poodletalk
October 6th, 2006, 12:39 PM
Techno, I am very impressed that you approached a snarling crazy dog and YOUR dogs didn't react by pulling on their leashes and acting crazy themselves.

Please give me your training techniques!

K9Friend
October 6th, 2006, 12:49 PM
TD: you could have walked across the street to avoid it. :shrug: I know, I would have returned and said something to the owner. The dog's owner maybe doesn't don't know that its dog is reacting that way. You'd be surprised how many dog owners are ditzy out there. I meet them every day. This just sorta reminds me how cops react when they meet up with an aggressive dog (usually on the dog's property) and because they have a gun - they shoot it dead. I don't agree with that either. TD: I'm not saying YOU would have kicked it dead before you all start throwing that back at me.

Again, it's NOT the dog's fault it's out there. It's the stupid owner's fault. The dog is scared and reacting like it should be when it's scared. It hasn't been socialized properly. :sad:

I know a lot of you are GREAT & experienced dog owners. I might not always agree on some of your training methods but I guess we'll have to just agree on my disagreement about kicking a strange dog. :grouphug:

technodoll
October 6th, 2006, 12:49 PM
GG, think of me what you will... :shrug:

i'm not as patient and as tolerant as you are to go out of your way to "do the right thing all the time under any circumstance" - which is what i am reading from your post, unless i misunderstood you?... - so if you think i'm a bad person, judging me from this one story and not on my whole life... oh well... I know that I am a pretty OK lady and dogs will forgive me. :dog:

Prin
October 6th, 2006, 12:53 PM
I'm just glad that Maika wasn't stolen or hit by a car as a result of being a "good samaritan" and either tying her up in a not so good neighborhood, or jaywalking on Montreal streets on a dark and rainy night. Anybody who has ever been in Montreal and has seen the drivers knows what I mean.

Pike
October 6th, 2006, 12:55 PM
This thread has run it's course, and will be closed.