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Did Canidae change the ingredients in the "All Life Stages" formula?

RaYne
October 4th, 2006, 09:54 PM
I recently bought Lola a bag of the all life stages Canidae. When I looked at the ingredients they appear different.. The cals per cup also seems higher.. I'm positive I had read something about their formulas changing.. but I can find any info now. Anyone know?

Another reason I'm wondering is because super food sensitive Bubba got into the bag yesterday. I'm not sure how much he ate but I doubt it was just a little bit. So I was expecting a booty blowout but so far his poops are fine. *knock on wood* lol

Prin
October 4th, 2006, 10:11 PM
I've only heard that they were lowering the price and distributing it to chain stores...

Check MEB's dog food thread and see if the ingredients are different than the bag you have (then again, they can take up to 6 months to change the bags after changing the formula...)
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=28957

RaYne
October 5th, 2006, 09:29 AM
Hmm, nope those ingredients are the same. I think I'll email them and ask.

I just find it odd that Bubba ate quite a bit and didn't have diarrhea. Expecially since it's got 4 different protein sources and that's a no no for him.

Plus when he was 8 months old I tried him on Canidae and he had loose orangy gross poops. He's 20 months old now.. maybe his system is changing?

I'll post my email reply once I get it.

rainbow
October 5th, 2006, 12:54 PM
Rayne, I know huskies have immature digestive systems and when they are young have a lot of soft poops. This lasts until they are about 1 1/2 yr. old. Perhaps Saints are the same? :shrug:

Scott_B
October 5th, 2006, 12:56 PM
Rayne, do a search for Canidae. I posted an email i sent asking if they planned on changing their formula and they sent a reply back within a few hours telling me they had no plans to do so. That said, I suppose itdoesnt mean they havent changed it already lol

RaYne
October 5th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Scott, I must have missed that and I searched too. LOL

I just swore that it didn't have probiotics or herring meal before.. I guess I was wrong. I must have been thinking of another kibble. :o

The only food Bubba has done well on is the Eagle Pack fish and oatmeal. Chicken, turkey and lamb always caused severe booty blowout. So imagine my surprise when the worst that happened was some soft-ish poop. The type of poop you would expect when switching foods. But that wasn't a carefully measured amount either.. he just helped himself to the bag.

I'm tempted to try slowly transitioning him to Canidae and see what happens. But I swore after the last switch that went horribly wrong that I wouldn't never attempt to switch him again. I think my exact words were if I ever remotely think of switching his food again somebody slap me. :o

I don't know.. Should I try it or no? :confused:

rainbow, I'm not sure about the immature digestive systems. My other Saint, Lola can eat pretty much anything without a problem and she's younger than Bubba. I switched her cold turkey to the Canidae and she had no problem whatsoever. Which is nice.. at least I only have one dog with digestive issues. ;)

RaYne
October 5th, 2006, 04:36 PM
Wow thumbs up for Canidae.. they are quick. :D

Here's my reply...

Hello Linda,
Canidae has not changed any of our formulas however we have added two new formulas this past year - The Chicken and Rice and The Lamb and Rice.

Thank you for choosing Canidae Pet Foods.
Sincerely,
Diane, Team Canidae

Prin
October 5th, 2006, 05:33 PM
Well, Boo is still sensitive but much more rigid than he was when I put him on the SG two and a half years ago. It could happen, I guess. Maybe because being on a food that he could absorb made him stronger.:shrug:

les
October 5th, 2006, 05:48 PM
Hmmm ... I was feeding my dogs Canidae (I started about 6 months ago) and they loved it. The last bag I bought within the last month they wouldn't touch. I never thought much of it - - just decided to switch to RAW to avoid the problems of kibble. There sure seem like a lot of problems and lies with it lately :rolleyes:

Seeing this makes me wonder .. I know they said they didn't but I wonder just how honest they actually are???

RaYne
October 6th, 2006, 08:39 AM
Actually someone on another forum send me an ingredient list from 2004. It's the same as the bag I have. So I do think Canidae is being honest. I just got it mixed up.

I've been adding some Canidae to Bubba's meals and so far so good. He was a little gassy yesterday but no diarrhea.

The Eagle Pack no doubt did help. He was actually absorbing it instead of it just going straight through him. But it's too low in fat and protein for him. Keeping weight on him has been a battle. In order to keep him from looking bony I've been feeding him 8 cups a day.. and he's still has that hourglass figure. It's horrible. The Canidae has more cals per cup, more protein and more fat. So I'm reallllly hoping everything goes well and he can eat this. I'll know for sure once I'm no longer mixing the EP in with it and he's eating straight Canidae. :fingerscr

RaYne
October 10th, 2006, 10:58 AM
Well we made the complete switch to Canidae!!

Bubba is having no major issues!! Just the odd soft poop which I expected since we went from a fish based kibble to one with 4 protein sources. Plus the EP has a stool hardener (beet pulp) and the Canidae doesn't. I thought for sure this wasn't going to work. So I was pleasantly surprised. :thumbs up

Can anyone explain this? A kibble with multiple protein sources was a huge no no for Bubba before. The only thing I can think of is that his intolerances/allergies have changed as he matured?

My vet had suspected IBS or a protein intolerance. But with Bubba doing fine on the Canidae that definitely scratches those off the list.

Prin
October 10th, 2006, 01:59 PM
Maybe it wasn't the protein afterall, or maybe he has developed the proper enzymes and things to digest protein... (Sort of like how adults become lactose intolerant, only reversed...)

It's a mystery, but it's great that he's more digestively flexible.;)

RaYne
October 12th, 2006, 11:11 AM
Well I got some info on the Canidae ingredient change. There was in fact a change. But for some reason Canidae denies it.

There was a post on another forum.. someone else noticed an ingredient change also. Mordanna replied so I asked if she knew when the ingredients changed and I got this reply from her.

Quote... """The whole thing about Canidae claiming they didn't change formulas is a really sorry story. The vehemently denied (and keep denying) that the changes were anything but "corrections of typos", yet I have proof of changes in the formulation between 12/11/03 and 12/12/2004.

I even alerted the WDJ to it since Canidae kept stonewalling and eventually ignoring me, and they wrote back that they agreed this was not good business and that they were going to follow up with the manufacturer, but it never happened, or at least I never heard anything more about it.

This is one of the things why I still hold other brands in higher esteem than Canidae, even though they make nice products and sell at a good price.""" End Quote....

Now this makes perfect sense since I figured out that I first tried Canidae around September/October 2004.

Here's the Old Canidae ingredient list.. that I was searching for and couldn't find.

CHICKEN MEAL, TURKEY MEAL, BROWN RICE, WHITE RICE, LAMB MEAL, CHICKEN FAT, ( PRESERVED WITH MIXED TOCOPHEROLS AND ASORBIC ACID ,VIT.E & C ), FISH MEAL, FLAX SEED, DEHYDRATED ALFALFA MEAL ,SUNFLOWER OIL , LECITHIN , BREWERS YEAST , NATURAL FLAVORS, MONOSODIUM PHOSPHATE , CHOLINE, LINOLEIC ACID, ROSEMARY EXTRACT, SAGE EXTRACT , FERROUS SULFATE , DL - ALPHA TOCOPHEROL (SOURCE OF VITAMIN E) ZINC OXIDE, SODIUM SELENITE, MANGANOUS OXIDE, RIBOFLAVIN SUPPLEMENT ( SOURCE OF B2), YEAST CULTURE, DRIED ASPERGILLUS NIGER FERMENTATION EXTRACT, DRIED ASPERGILLUS ORYZAE FERMENTATION EXTRACT, DRIED LACTOBACILLUS ACIDIPHILUS FERMENTATION PRODUCT, DRIED STREPTOCOCCUS FAECIUM FERMENTATION PRODUCT, ZINC AMINO ACID CHELATE, MANGANESE AMINO ACID CHELATE, COPPER AMINO ACID CHELATE, COBALT AMINO ACID CHELATE, IRON AMINO ACID CHELATE, NIACIN, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE , D-BIOTIN SUPPLEMENT, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE (VITAMIN B6) , CALCIUM , IODATE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE , FOLIC ACID , PAPAIN , BACILLUS SUBTILI , ASPERGILLUS NIGER , YUCCA SCHIDIGERA EXTRACT.

And here's the new ingredient list... Why they would deny an ingredient 'upgrade' is beyond me. :confused:

Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Looks like Canidae isn't so honest after all. :(

Scott_B
October 12th, 2006, 12:27 PM
interesting, however it does look like it changed for the better. And has been changed for at least a few months. Going from Fish meal to Herring meal is a better choice imo. I know when I purchased a bag back in May it had Herring meal, and no doubt that bag didnt just come off the assembly line. So maybe thats why when I asked if it was changed, they said no, because the changed happened a while ago?

Edit, i see those posts where back from 2004. So yeah, looks like its been changed for a while then.

phoenix
October 12th, 2006, 01:41 PM
Ok, I bought my first bag of Canidae back in January of 2005 (almost 2 years ago). I happened to cut the ingredients off the back and still have it in my dog file. It has the 'good list' of ingredients with Herring meal and no brewer's yeast.

If you called/emailed and asked them if there was a change, it's not surprising they'd say no... if the change was 3 years ago! I don't think you are being fair at all. (and, kind of slanderous too, imo).

Prin
October 12th, 2006, 03:19 PM
I agree. 3 years for a dog food company is eons.

And at this point, I think changing the formula is just a standard thing for dog food companies. Innova did it. Wellness did it. Solid Gold did it. So now, we find out Canidae did it.

What matters is what they changed, and if you saw the new label without knowing any history, would you buy that food.

In this case, I think it's obvious they made it better. :shrug:

Every food company is hiding something. It's what they do.:shrug:

RaYne
October 12th, 2006, 06:27 PM
I made sure I asked Canidae if they changed the ingredients from 2004 to now since that's when I last tried it and they replied to me with the above email. Meanwhile Mordanna said it changed from 2003-2004.

How am I being slanderous? If you are talking about the quote that is what Mordanna said when she replied to my question about when the formula changed.


Quote from MORDANNA... """The whole thing about Canidae claiming they didn't change formulas is a really sorry story. The vehemently denied (and keep denying) that the changes were anything but "corrections of typos", yet I have proof of changes in the formulation between 12/11/03 and 12/12/2004.

I even alerted the WDJ to it since Canidae kept stonewalling and eventually ignoring me, and they wrote back that they agreed this was not good business and that they were going to follow up with the manufacturer, but it never happened, or at least I never heard anything more about it.

This is one of the things why I still hold other brands in higher esteem than Canidae, even though they make nice products and sell at a good price.""" End Quote....

I'm feeding Canidae and don't plan on switching.. but they still told me the formula had not changed from 2004 when I last fed it to now why they would deny that I have no idea. But I know the bag I had contained fish meal, not herring meal.

Maybe I'll email them again and copy/paste both ingredient lists and ask when it changed..

Edit, I just finished sending them another email. I pasted the old ingredient list in their question form thingy and asked when they removed the brewers yeast and changed the fish meal for herring meal. Maybe I wasn't completely clear in my last email to them.. so there shouldn't be any confusion this time.

phoenix
October 12th, 2006, 09:46 PM
well I'll be curious to read the result although I'm still happy with them no matter what the answer is. I said slanderous (sorry maybe too tough a word) because you almost gave me a heart attack saying the formula was 'recently changed' when you meant more than 3 years ago... i don't think that is recent and it doesn't really paint them in a good light when you have no proof. Anyway, thanks for looking into it.

RaYne
October 13th, 2006, 08:32 AM
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean to about give you a heart attack. I meant that I had recently bought a bag and the ingredients were different than when I was buying it in 2004.

I'm really not trying to make them look bad. But from what I gathered they didn't admit to the change even back in 2003-2004. I just want to see if they give me the "oh it was just typos" reply.

What sparked this whole thing is that my sensitive dog can eat it now without issues. Just got my gears turning I guess and now I need to know. LOL

RaYne
October 13th, 2006, 01:46 PM
Well here's my reply. They are sticking to the fact that it had not changed at all. Notice there is no mention of the brewers yeast.

"""Hi Lyn - actually the formula has not changed at all. What happened is that AFFCO decided that dog foods would be much more consumer friendly if we all used the terminology. For example the fish meal becomes herring meal, ascorbic acid and Vitamin C are the same thing so only one is named....ETC

Lois - CANIDAE - Support"""

I'm going to have to agree with Prin.. that all dog food companies have something to hide I guess. But I still don't understand why they would bother to hide an upgrade. :shrug:

Prin
October 13th, 2006, 01:56 PM
So reply and ask her what brewer's yeast turned into.
:evil:

RaYne
October 13th, 2006, 02:23 PM
Done. I replied and asked about the brewers yeast. :D

Prin
October 13th, 2006, 02:27 PM
Now we just have to wait for her to "formulate" her answer.:D

Scott_B
October 13th, 2006, 02:52 PM
Lois, thats the same lady from Canidae that wrote me back!

RaYne
October 13th, 2006, 07:42 PM
Here's my reply.. This is just silly.

"""Hi - we do not use brewers yeast any more. The only value it has is as a
Vitamin B. It has not been effective in flea control. What is effective is
a healthy skin from all of the other ingredients.

Lois - CANIDAE Support"""

So I should email back and say so you did change the formula then. LOL

Prin
October 13th, 2006, 07:59 PM
lol Maybe a "when did you remove it from your foods?" innocent question... :evil:

rainbow
October 14th, 2006, 12:18 AM
If I ever win the lotto jackpot I am going to:

1. pay off all my bills
2. set up a spay/neuter clinic for feral/homeless animals
3. start my own pet food company and hire Prin if she will move to B.C.

:D

Prin
October 14th, 2006, 12:26 AM
If I ever win the lotto jackpot I am going to:

1. pay off all my bills
2. set up a spay/neuter clinic for feral/homeless animals
3. start my own pet food company and hire Prin if she will move to B.C.

:D
Aww, I can't be a partner?

We can call our pet food ethi-cal.:D

rainbow
October 14th, 2006, 12:47 AM
Aww, I can't be a partner?

We can call our pet food ethi-cal.:D


You can be a partner if you help out in the spay/neuter clinic. :D

Ethi-Cal.....I love it. :D But the evil people at M---Cal would probably sue us for something. :evil:

Prin
October 14th, 2006, 12:51 AM
For sure I'd help out in the s/n clinic, but only if we also give reduced rates to homeless people's doggies, senior people with doggies and low income family doggies too. :)

Oh, yeah, we'll get sued. Or maybe not. Maybe they'll just feed off our publicity and good reputation.:rolleyes:

rainbow
October 14th, 2006, 01:05 AM
For sure I'd help out in the s/n clinic, but only if we also give reduced rates to homeless people's doggies, senior people with doggies and low income family doggies too.

Well, I did already say homeless animals and low income should definitely be included. I think only seniors with limited income though cuz there's lots of seniors that can well afford to look after their pets properly.


Oh, yeah, we'll get sued. Or maybe not. Maybe they'll just feed off our publicity and good reputation.

LOL....then we'd have to sue them for ummmm ??? How about "living off the avails". :D

Prin
October 14th, 2006, 01:14 AM
lol or we could just buy them out (eventually) and redo everything properly. They've already got a brainwashed clientele.

Right about the seniors. Lucky you're my partner so I don't get screwed.:D

rainbow
October 14th, 2006, 01:24 AM
lol or we could just buy them out (eventually) and redo everything properly. They've already got a brainwashed clientele.

Ooooo....I like the way you think. :D

Prin
October 14th, 2006, 01:29 AM
Do you think Rayne will be mad that we gradually hijacked her thread? :o

Sorry Rayne. You can be a partner too and develop a food for very, very, very large breed doggies.:)

rainbow
October 14th, 2006, 01:42 AM
:sorry:

This is the second time I've been involved in a hi-jack lately. :o

I'm not going to reply to anything more about my jackpot dreamlist. :o



BACK TO THE CANIDAE INFO.....

Prin
October 14th, 2006, 01:44 AM
lol It's ok rainbow. It's my fault too. You can take me down with you.