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Bandit..Live or Die

chico2
February 15th, 2004, 09:39 AM
Lucky,please read the story in The Toronto Star about Bandit the Lab/Pitt cross.It will tell you how the HS of Toronto unlike the butchers at HS in Montreal,will always give animals a chance,although Bandits fate is still undecided.
www.thestar.com scroll down

amaruq
February 15th, 2004, 10:26 AM
Please keep me updated on Bandit!

This makes me soooo angry because...where were the parents? I don't let small children around my dogs? Course when they seee Lizzy they scream "DALMATIAN!!" and come running expecting her to be sweet and nice like on the movie. She is sweet and nice but the excitement freaks her out.

Poor Bandit probably didn't want the kid in his face and bit him. Not that its the childs fault but the fault of the parents.

There was a child here that went to a home and wanted to see the "New" puppies. So they were few days old...she reached in and grbbed one...of course the pup cried and mother bit the girl. The dog made a mess out of her face...but dang where were the parents to say "No you don't do that the Mommy will get mad?" Instead the Humane Society came in with the pole dragged the mother out like a wild animal...course poor girl was upset her pups were left behind...so then they took pups and quarentined her......Yes i feel for the child as really the poor baby didn't understand..but I tell you I was soooo ticked about the Mother dog being treated the way she was...Good news is she was not put down.

chico2
February 15th, 2004, 10:42 AM
Amaruq,yes it's almost always the parents fault,little kids should never be left alone with any dog.The little guy probably grabbed Bandits head to kiss him and Bandit freaked..
I am very sorry for the little boy,probably scarred for life...but Bandit should not recieve a Death-sentence.
He was lucky to end up in a Toronto shelter where they cared enough not to kill him right away.
We will find out tomorrow what happens.

Lucky Rescue
February 15th, 2004, 11:09 AM
NO child should ever be left alone with ANY dog, and I don't care if the dog is Lassie. Actually, no child should be left alone with any animal. Period.

Dogs do not see kids the same way as they see adults and often don't accept authority from them. They will often discipline them as they would other dogs.

Most dogs don't like being hugged around the neck. Many may tolerate it , but they don't like it.

Society now seems to think dogs should be like Disney characters instead of what they are - predators and carnivores who are well equipped to defend themselves.

A case in point is Labrador retrievers, who are near the top of the list for bite cases, particularly towards children. This is not because they are bad dogs, but because people think of them as totally harmless and leave children alone with them. "Oh, it's a Lab so it's o.k."....NOT

Children and dogs are the victims of careless and ignorant adults.

chico2
February 15th, 2004, 11:20 AM
There is a picture of Bandit in the paper,but not on their web-site,he looks more like a choclate Lab than a pitt...he's outside being walked by the director of HS.Hopefully there will be a good outcome for Bandit.

chico2
February 15th, 2004, 11:25 AM
The same actually goes for cats too,my cats are terrified of little kids,they are not used to these little people and will go into hiding if I have any kids visiting.They probably would do some damage should a little kid manage to pull their tails or anything like that.

Spoiled
February 15th, 2004, 07:19 PM
I agree, it usualy is an adult's fault. Unless the animal is specialy trained, it should not be left around children alone. In the paper, there was a story about a kid who was rollerblading with her club, and her friend had a Rottweiler along. The Rottweiler decided to attack her, and her brother had to kick it off! It also said, the dog was a male, and he hadn't been neutered. The dog was with a child who wasn't even strong enough to hold the dog back. I'm not sure what goes through these parent's heads. All the blame goes to the poor dogs who did it.:mad:

Luba
February 15th, 2004, 08:00 PM
It's always blame the dog instead of the stupid owner!

How many idiots does it take to ruin a dogs life?

mona_b
February 15th, 2004, 09:04 PM
I saw this on the news yesterday...To be honest,this is the first that I have heard of this being done before.Usually dogs are put down after an insodent like this.

I'm curious as to how Bandit was raised.Looks like there were some issues on this.

He is a very sweet looking dog.

Dee_petlover
February 16th, 2004, 03:52 PM
People shouldn't be irresponsible with leaving their kids alone with dogs, especially those with puppies! It's a really sad situation for the dog and the little boy. People forget sometimes. I remember when a child in my neighbourhood was walking the family lab on a leash in her front yard (parents not outside) and I go to leave my house with my dog and I have to worry that the lab is going to pull her right over trying to get to my dog. I don't allow my kids 10 & 6 to walk my big dog, because they don't have the physical size and strength to handle her. Even a very well behaved dog can all of a sudden see a cat or something and then the kid doesn't have a hope of hanging on to a dog.

On the other hand, I don't think too many people can say that for a split second ever that their dog is not alone with their kid. I don't think anyone follows their dog from room to room all day long! Obviously with puppies you would need to make special accomodations, but I dont' think it is always fair to blame the parents.

1john44
February 16th, 2004, 04:27 PM
I am not sure strength is the issue as much as authority. Like it was said, dogs are pack animals and have a chain of command. The kids are not the top of the pack, and far to often, the dog sees them as actually being lower on it then themsleves. So even a little 90 pound woman can walk a 200 pound dog, if the dog understands that she is master not him.

Dee_petlover
February 16th, 2004, 05:55 PM
True, you are right about the authority. I don't know situations that too many kids have this to a degree they could walk a large dog unsupervised.

Change the scenario to a small dog on a leash with a child, they may be able to establish authority & control easier than with a large dog. ( Not saying they should be unsupervised though)
So strength does come into play a little.

LavenderRott
February 16th, 2004, 06:21 PM
I know that I don't post here a lot and most of you don't know about my Chase. I got her when I was about 3 months pregnant with my son. She was about 4 at the time.

My son once stood on her head to put his sippy cup on the table when he was about 18 months old. He once used her for a chair to watch his cartoons.

Have the two of them ever been alone unsupervised? You bet. Probably more times then I can count. Don't get me wrong, I have been in the same house as the two of them. But constantly looking to make sure that my son is safe, no. I can say with certainty that there is no need.

Now 6, my son can walk her on a leash, take raw chicken from her mouth and do anything else that he wants to this dog. (No, this does not mean that he can hit or abuse her. He knows how to treat a dog.)

I will say, Chase is the only dog I have ever owned that I have trusted to this extent. And anyone who knows her understands why I place so much trust in this girl.

chico2
February 16th, 2004, 06:38 PM
Well,it looks like Bandit will live,at least until June.The City ordered him killed,but THS said it was not in the citys jurisdiction to do so.So,another hearing will be held in June.

Spoiled
February 16th, 2004, 07:17 PM
Wow LavenderRott, it sounds like you have a really good dog!

mona_b
February 16th, 2004, 07:21 PM
Well I guess we will have to wait till June to find out.

My question though is what makes Bandit different then other dogs who have attacked and injured a family members child or anyone else for that matter?Any other dog that I know of who has attacked is put down.So what's different in Bandits case?Did the Grandmother not say to put him down?I thought I heard that on the news.

I'm just curious.:)

chico2
February 16th, 2004, 07:49 PM
I am not sure,if someone is killed I guess the dog in question will be put down,but in Bandits case,the HS has had him for three month and tested him and found him to be a very friendly obedient dog...ready for adoption and they have had several offers.
I don't really know what the circumstances were,but it was the grandmothers dog.
THS,does not kill dogs just like that,they investigate.
Who knows what this little boy did to the dog,in all innosence I am sure,maybe he hurt the dog,who knows.
Lavenderrott,with all the animals you have,I am sure your kids have been taught to respect and care about animals,same as their mother.

Dee_petlover
February 16th, 2004, 08:15 PM
I thought I remember reading once that if there were certain circumstances involved in a dog biting incident than the dog wouldn't necessarily be put down. for example a dog being teased and provoked. Maybe in this case they considered her protecting her puppies as a reason.

sznnn
February 19th, 2004, 10:28 AM
ok i have 2 dogs of my own and have loved dogs, having been raised with them, all of my life. our family had a rottweiler and i have a boxer and an american bulldog. yes, the parents must be responsible for their children and make sure that they moniter very closely when around all animals. but, these are CHILDREN we are talking about. the animal is just that... an animal. i love my dogs with every breath i take, but the truth is i love my 3 small children more. if either of my dogs bit any child, not only one of my own, i would consider it the dogs fault. no questions asked. i know we all love our animals and we all want to give peace a chance and be politically correct, but lets not do it at the expense of our children. in my eyes, that little boy could not have provoked the dog into an attack like that. not a three year old boy. get serious, folks. if you want to turn this around so the dog is the victim here you must be totally nuts!!! i know they've published the dogs picture, but how about the boys? what is wrong with you?!!?

LavenderRott
February 19th, 2004, 10:43 AM
When my now teenage daughters were younger, my youngest daughter, then 3, hit my collie in the back of the head with a piece of 2"x4". Did she get bit? No. Did she deserve to? You bet. Her mom spanked her butt good.

Yes, a three year old can provoke a bite.

And before you jump on me for taking the dogs side, 18 months ago I had a beautiful male rottweiler put to sleep for biting my then 4 year old son. It was an unprovoked bite.

There is a difference. And they should be treated differently.

amaruq
February 19th, 2004, 11:07 AM
OK wow! No one said the boy provoked the dog. The child is completely inocent......dogs all have a push point.Some don't like to be touched..or hugged or whatever. Where the responsibility lies is with the parents to make sure the child doesn't get hurt. I been bit by my dog. Did I deserve it...yup! Was there a warning sign..you bet! But big dogs and kids don't mix..its not the dogs fault, they are doing what natural to them. I hate when little kids get bitten..it will leave them with a mental scare for life. But parents have to be responsible for what their kids and animals do, and to think why did it happen!Originally posted by sznnn
ok i have 2 dogs of my own and have loved dogs, having been raised with them, all of my life. our family had a rottweiler and i have a boxer and an american bulldog. yes, the parents must be responsible for their children and make sure that they moniter very closely when around all animals. but, these are CHILDREN we are talking about. the animal is just that... an animal. i love my dogs with every breath i take, but the truth is i love my 3 small children more. if either of my dogs bit any child, not only one of my own, i would consider it the dogs fault. no questions asked. i know we all love our animals and we all want to give peace a chance and be politically correct, but lets not do it at the expense of our children. in my eyes, that little boy could not have provoked the dog into an attack like that. not a three year old boy. get serious, folks. if you want to turn this around so the dog is the victim here you must be totally nuts!!! i know they've published the dogs picture, but how about the boys? what is wrong with you?!!?

mona_b
February 19th, 2004, 11:20 AM
Are we crazy?

I don't think so.And yes,I did see the little boy,it was on the news.

Do you like to be poked at?Pinched?Your ears pulled at?I think not.I know I don't.If you have children and dogs.Then the only sensible thing to do is teach them how to respect the dog.And that the dog is not a toy.

So tell me,if one of your kids is hitting the dog,poking it,pulling the tail.And your dog bites.You still blame the dog?If so,there is a problem here.

I agree with Sandi.YES a 3 year old can prevoke a bite.Just as a4 year old and a 6 year old.

Also,I don't appreciate you coming on here and asking us if we are crazy.

:mad:

amaruq
February 19th, 2004, 11:26 AM
Ok I lied... someone did say provoked.....I don't look it that way necessarily. It's more the kid being a kid and poking tugging and chewing on whatever is available. Let's face it what 3 yr old isn't a huge pest :D :D :D

Lucky Rescue
February 19th, 2004, 12:06 PM
No one would ever say a 3 yr old deliberately provoked a dog, and of course it's not the child's fault.

I'm reminded of a recent case. Couple had a nice Lab. They had a baby - dog was wonderful with the child.

Parents left the then 18 month old baby with the dog and went into another room. Heard screaming. Ran in, and dog had seriously bitten the child's shoulder.

Couple took dog to vet to be euthanized immediately. After the dog was dead, the vet noticed a pen sticking out of the dog's ear.

This is not the case of a bad dog, or of a child provoking the dog.

The dog just reacted to the sudden and excruciating pain of having a pen shoved in it's ear, just as we would.:(

Again, no dog should ever be left alone with a small child.

sznnn
February 19th, 2004, 03:40 PM
i never said the child couldn't have provoked some protective response from the dog, maybe by bothering or hurting him. but an attack that causes the boy to need 200 stitches in his face is in a different ballpark alltogether. does anyone disagree that there is a difference between what this dog bandit did and a dog who snaps or even nips at someone who has over stepped their boundaries? i'm not saying that a bite is a bite is a bite. only that THIS dog who bit THIS child is to blame.
someone mentioned that their dog was put down because he bit their child. i certainly wouldn't make any assumptions about you or your situation. i'm sorry that it happened. i was only taking issue with the posts that seem to favor this dog who attacked a child and for some reason hasn't been put down. my daughter was nipped by a dog because she pulled her tail really hard. the dog got popped and my daughter was told that what she did was wrong and when you hurt and or scare a dog like that they feel the need to defend themselves. if that dog had flown onto my child and injured her the same way bandit did, there would be no question as to the dog's fate. there is a difference between my situation and the one at hand... obviously... and that is my whole point.this

amaruq
February 19th, 2004, 04:36 PM
No dog attacks for the heck of it...maybe if they have rabies or something.
there has to some sort of reason. It's not to say (I keep repeating this) that the child is at fault. It was the adults that were "Suppose" to supervise the child.
I would not trust my Dals with kids. Way to hyper and everything is a chew toy. They blast off without thinking. Could knock a child over.

chico2
February 19th, 2004, 04:46 PM
You say we are crazy and it's"only"a dog,an animal..
You don't know how many times I've heard that expression...
Bandit has undergone extensive testing and has been found by HS to be a"good"dog,they would not root for an animal that is dangerous,they will place him in an adult only home.
I do feel for the boy and his parents,I am sure the boy meant no harm,but he must have done something to cause an otherwise friendly dog to bite and yes,I too saw the picture of the boy.
I sincerely think Bandit should get a second chance even though he's only an animal.

Dee_petlover
February 19th, 2004, 06:23 PM
When I said "provoked" in my previous post, it was in response to someone asking what made this dog different. I believe they were asking the question in the sense of "why wouldn't she be put down?"

the post I had meant to respond to:

My question though is what makes Bandit different then other dogs who have attacked and injured a family members child or anyone else for that matter?Any other dog that I know of who has attacked is put down.So what's different in Bandits case?Did the Grandmother not say to put him down?I thought I heard that on the news.

my response:

I thought I remember reading once that if there were certain circumstances involved in a dog biting incident than the dog wouldn't necessarily be put down. for example a dog being teased and provoked. Maybe in this case they considered her protecting her puppies as a reason.

I don't know all of the information in this case.
My response was just a comment of something I had read once about dogs biting in general and if I remember correctly the words teased and provoked had been used in what I was reading at that time. For example a dog is minding it's own business in its own fenced yard and some mean strange person who thinks its funny hops my fence uninvited and decides to start poking at the dog with a stick and scaring it for their own sick pleasure, the dog then scared and threatened bites the person. Should that dog be put down?
This is what I meant by there could be circumstances considered before a dog is just simply put down for biting.

I have no idea of all the circumstances in this case, I was simply participating in this discussion and speculating on why they would possibly not put her down. When I said maybe they considered her protecting puppies as a reason, again I was just speculating as to why possibly they might not have put her down. I actually made no statement as to my opinion on that post.

wAggie
February 22nd, 2004, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by LuckyRescue
Couple took dog to vet to be euthanized immediately. After the dog was dead, the vet noticed a pen sticking out of the dog's ear.


OMG

how horrid!!!! and SHAMEFUL of the parents... pure ignorance... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

the stress that dog went through... and to put an end his life... :(

NOT RIGHT at ALL!