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Baby mauled to death by guard dogs

paula383
September 25th, 2006, 04:04 AM
A five-month-old girl died from horrific injuries after being savaged by two Rottweiler dogs guarding a pub.

The animals, trained to act as guard dogs, mauled the baby in the living quarters of the Rocket pub in the New Parks area of Leicester.

It is thought the little girl's parents were looking after the pub - and the animals - when the tragedy happened. The landlord, said to be a close friend of the couple, is believed to be on holiday.

The baby was rushed to Leicester Royal Infirmary shortly before 4pm and died a short time later.

A spokesman for Leicestershire Police confirmed the animals had been taken from the address and had been put down.

Flowers, balloons and teddy bears were left across the entrance to the pub.

Neighbours described the animals as "vicious". One woman, who would not be named, said: "They went for her face, completely ripped her apart. It doesn't bear thinking about. Apparently they dragged her onto the roof. If that was my baby I'd want the animals destroyed, in fact I'd want to do it myself."

Amy Grimbley, who lives on an adjoining street on the inner-city estate, said the dogs were used as security by the landlord and were always kept out of the pub itself.

She said: "The dogs are known to be vicious. They are guard dogs. They stay on the roof during the day and whenever you walk past you get the feeling they could just jump down and attack you." Im so sorry for the family but one thing keeps coming to mind, Where were the parents !!!!!!!!!! and why the hell was a baby anywhere near guard dogs.

rainbow
September 25th, 2006, 05:16 AM
What a sad story. :sad:

But why did the parents allow the dogs into the living quarters? And why would they leave their baby in the same room as the dogs? They were friends of the owner so they obviously knew that these were trained guard dogs. I am sorry for their tragic loss but they really should have known better. :mad:

DakotaJo
September 25th, 2006, 06:44 AM
What a horrific thing to have happen. Even though I know Micky is as gentle as a lamb, when I babysit for my boss, I do not leave the kids alone with him, knowing that wolf dogs have a high prey drive and to wolf dogs, if it runs, it's prey. Although my heart hurts for the parents, this was absolutely avoidable.

technodoll
September 25th, 2006, 09:43 AM
The dogs are known to be vicious. They are guard dogs. They stay on the roof during the day

WTF?! is this normal compassionate care for one's animals? :eek:

paula383
September 25th, 2006, 10:19 AM
there was talk this morning on tv that these dogs should be banned, not that this will happen, but its not the dogs that should be banned its people like this that should be banned from keeping any animal.:mad:

Prin
September 25th, 2006, 10:27 AM
The dogs are known to be vicious. They are guard dogs.One does not equal the other. :frustrated: Guard dogs are not supposed to be vicious all the time.

paula383
September 25th, 2006, 11:30 AM
The grandfather of a baby mauled to death by Rottweilers has been stabbed and his partner killed in a separate attack hours later, a family member says.

John Brightwell, 50, and Debra Larn, 47, were attacked at their home in Beaumont Leys, Leicester, early on Sunday, said his niece, 17-year-old Natalie Brightwell.

At around 4pm on Saturday, Mr Brightwell's five-month-old granddaughter Caydee-Lee was savaged by guard dogs at The Rocket pub in the New Parks area of the city. The girl suffered horrific injuries and was taken to hospital, but died a short time later.

Two people were arrested following the stabbings, which were linked to Caydee-Lee's death, Sky News reported.
It is thought the little girl's parents were looking after the pub - and the animals - when the attack happened.

Neighbours named the landlords as Wayne and Lesley Glaze, and said they left the pub with Mrs Glaze's son, Lee Burchell, and his girlfriend Amy while they went on holiday.

Police have not named the baby, but neighbours said she was Caydee-Lee, the young couple's daughter. Reports said the dogs, Bess and Bruno, were owned by Mr and Mrs Glaze.

The attack was reportedly witnessed by horrified passers-by, who alerted the emergency services. this really could have been avoided :(

technodoll
September 25th, 2006, 11:54 AM
are you sure this isn't from www.weeklyworldnews.com? it's just too crazy to be real. i mean come ON! :frustrated:

paula383
September 25th, 2006, 12:14 PM
no its all over the news here, my daughter heard it on the radio yesterday about the little girl and i saw it on the news last night and today, the bit about the stabbings has only just come on the news.

paula383
September 25th, 2006, 12:24 PM
http://news.aol.co.uk/mauled-babys-grandfather-stabbed/article/20060925101509990001

badger
September 25th, 2006, 01:01 PM
So who was arrested, Paula? The parents, who were there at the time? This is too horrific, if there was no connection between the incident with the dog and the murder, that's what I call a karmic firestorm.

cutecaro
September 25th, 2006, 01:02 PM
I heard this on the radio this morning ........... and it is a horrific event

I agree with you in your question where were the parents but we don't know the whole story as yet and need to really before comments can be made

These animals were trained for a certain job and yes should not have been allowed in the living area or near a child so why were they??????? :frustrated:

My sympathies are with both the childs parents and the dogs owner :sad: ...... and no I'm not justifying what happened and yes do think the dogs should now be put down BUT They were ......... as has been confirmed by various sources ... guard dogs.

If the baby was near them at any point with or without parents then that should be investigated instead of the dogs and their breed being put up to question (which will happen as it always does when events like this occur)

mona_b
September 26th, 2006, 12:47 AM
Guard dogs are not supposed to be vicious all the time.

Unfortunately Prin,that's not always the case....:(

Alot of the times these "guard" dogs are trained to be vicious.They are not socialized at all.They have very little contact with people.They are trained to attack anyone and everything.They will try and kill anything in sight.This is how many people train them.I've had a few run ins with these types of dogs.And let me tell you,I would rather have Tron go after me,at least I know he will only "hold" and not maul me to death....;)

I would love to know where the parents were when this happened.No doubt they will be investigated over this.

It's just so very heartbraking.Poor baby.This should not have happened.

twodogsandacat
September 26th, 2006, 06:46 AM
First off I would say that this is extremely sad for everybody involved. Then I would say that once again we see another often common link where taking care of somebody else’s dogs leads to tragedy. I’m sure there are a lot of unanswered questions regarding what they were thinking.

As far as "training" of guard dogs go it seems that raising them mean is a lot easier than training them how and when to attack. There’s a hell of a lot of difference and the time you put in affects what you get out. A dog that attacks anything and everything shouldn't be allowed.

My sister took her sweet German Shepherd through all the certifications years ago after she was divorced. It helped fill her time and she ended up with one heck of a dog. That dog was a solid as a rock and we could hardly believe she was capable of attacking a fly – until we saw the video. That kind of power needs to be controlled.

technodoll
September 26th, 2006, 09:35 AM
if the dogs were "kept on the roof" during the day, and i assume left free roam of the pub at night when it was closed, what were they doing in the building with people present? who let them inside? where was the baby when it was attacked? what provoked this attack? where were the parents? how were the dogs pulled off the baby, and was anyone else injured? why wasn't the tiny infant instantly killed (mauld by two vicious rotties, just picture it), it was brought to the hospital still alive but died later... if the dogs had wanted to kill the baby, they would have snapped its head off in 3 seconds. there are soooo many inconsistencies in this story, it almost looks like a setup. :shrug:

mona_b
September 26th, 2006, 09:36 AM
As far as "training" of guard dogs go it seems that raising them mean is a lot easier than training them how and when to attack. There’s a hell of a lot of difference and the time you put in affects what you get out. A dog that attacks anything and everything shouldn't be allowed.


So very true.

My dog is SchH III titled and was a working dog.He was taught to attack on command.But the attack was not to rip someone apart,but to "hold"...He is a loving gentle dog.And adores everyone.This is do to tons of socializing as a pup and training.And I must say he had a great trainer....;)

SchH is a sport.You control your dog.You not only have the Protection part,but also the tracking and the obedience.


Sorry,got a bit off topic...:D

paula383
September 26th, 2006, 10:04 AM
technodoll, why does this look like a set up? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/5376788.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/5381126.stm

technodoll
September 26th, 2006, 10:11 AM
paula i'm not questioning WHAT happened, but HOW it happened. the chain of events is ridiculous. did you read my questions, and can anyone answer?... :confused:

mona_b
September 26th, 2006, 10:17 AM
Well in the second link paula posted,is states that, "It is believed a fire exit was mistakenly left open allowing the dogs to enter the pub's living quarters and attack the infant".

So what I'm thinking is the baby could have been in a room sleeping,and the dogs got by the fire exit.

technodoll
September 26th, 2006, 10:26 AM
So what I'm thinking is the baby could have been in a room sleeping,and the dogs got by the fire exit.

it still doesn't make sense. guard dogs attacking a sleeping baby? why? :confused: and then not hurting anyone else, who were probably yelling and screaming and beating the dogs off? :confused: why didn't the dogs kill the baby then, if they were so blood-thirsty, and then turn on whomever tried to intervene? who the hell leaves "vicious guard dogs" unattended, untied, unsupervised, on a freaking roof all day? where were the parents? how long did it take to get the baby to the hospital before it she died? did the dogs hurt anyone else? why not, if they were so vicious? excuse me for being so shocked at this whole story but it stinks, it really does. Just like the story of that woman in france who's "labrador ripped her face off while she was sleeping". yeah... right. :rolleyes: there's a whole lot that the media is NOT reporting.

paula383
September 26th, 2006, 10:27 AM
from what i heard this morning on the news, the baby was sleeping in the back bedroom in the upstairs of the pub and the parents was down stairs in the bar, i agree with you that if the dogs had wanted to kill the baby they would have done there and then, theres no mention of how they got the dogs of the baby. but one report i saw today said the dogs had no history of being vicious, that is only what passes by have said,

technodoll
September 26th, 2006, 10:40 AM
the reports are still so vague at this point... some say the baby was mauled in the pub's living quarters, others say the dogs dragged the baby onto the roof... and then you have the double-murder tragedy of the "grandparents" if i remember correctly... at this point the only thing we (the public) know is that a little girl died due to injuries inflicted by dogs (could be just one of the dogs, too). and that's it. We might never know the whole story... but the media will certainly push the sensonaliasm (sp) to the max to sell the stories and make a buck. one report i read ended with "and last week another boy got mauled by a bull terrier-type dog and required 200 stitches to the face" bla bla bla... what does that have to do with THIS story? :confused:

mona_b
September 26th, 2006, 10:53 AM
The media only reports what they know and hear.This is a Police Investigation which takes time.Many questions need to be asked and answered.Again,this takes time.Yes you will hear different stories.But then again sometimes the reason for this is the media is asking so called witnesses questions.As for the dogs,well we really don't know much about them now do we?

Remember,this just happened,so yes we are getting bits and pieces...But also remember,an investigation takes time.

Just like the story of that woman in france who's "labrador ripped her face off while she was sleeping". yeah... right.

As for this comment,dogs "can" snap for no reason.

who the hell leaves "vicious guard dogs" unattended, untied, unsupervised, on a freaking roof all day?

People who don't want their dog near anyone.

paula383
September 26th, 2006, 11:15 AM
the roof is a flat roof which the dogs were on, the fire door would have been leading to the roof so thats how they would have got in and dragged the baby out, as for the other story about the little boy your right it had nothing to do with this story and didnt need to be mentioned, Dogs can and do snap for no reason i was once bitten by a labrador, that went for my face it was my mums guide dog and all i did was walk into the living room.

technodoll
September 26th, 2006, 11:18 AM
i was once bitten by a labrador, that went for my face it was my mums guide dog and all i did was walk into the living room.


oh no that's terrible! you didn't get hurt did you?.. :eek: what happened to the dog after that?

(on another note... if the dog had been a "pitbull or rottie or...", you might have made the news! ok sorry not funny but in the context of this thread... you know? sigh).

paula383
September 26th, 2006, 11:35 AM
dont apologize your right it would have done, i was alright i was left with his teeth marks down my face i was only 8 or 9 and luckily it didnt leave a scar, nothing was done to the dog my mum reported it to the guide dogs for the blind but they would`nt believe it, they just said "guide dogs dont bite" it never did it again, but it was`nt a very good guide dog it would walk out in front of cars. (think it was trying to kill us one by one lol)sorry.

technodoll
September 26th, 2006, 12:02 PM
oh paula that is terrible, i'm smiling but it's not funny, :o so glad you didn't have to wear facial scars for life. egads :pawprint:

LM1313
September 26th, 2006, 12:59 PM
I feel terrible for the little girl, but how is it the dogs' fault that they were guarding what they were trained (probably improperly!) to guard? Were they supposed to go "d'awww, a baby" and turn into friendly therapy dogs? WHY did the parents let the baby wander around when there are two vicious dogs around? That's just stupid!

Unfortunately Prin,that's not always the case....:(

Alot of the times these "guard" dogs are trained to be vicious.They are not socialized at all.They have very little contact with people.They are trained to attack anyone and everything.They will try and kill anything in sight.This is how many people train them.

Sad, but true. In fact, I would venture to guess that that's how most guard dogs are trained. :(

My dad was in the Korean War and the war dogs would attack everyone except their handler. One got loose once and they had to shoot it.

Edit: Okay, I just read about the fire escape door being left open. I'll bet whoever did that feels horrible. :( I still feel putting the dogs to sleep was inappropriate . . . They are what people made them to be, it's not their fault.

I don't find it particularly unlikely that they'd attack a baby . . . It sounds like they were strictly guard dogs, not pets. If they didn't have much socialization and interaction with people, there would be no reason for them to see a baby as a potential pack member rather than fun, squeaky prey. Once I came home to find Ebony happily tossing around and shaking a sad, limp, dead baby bird that had fallen out of its nest. She would never have hurt a human, dog, or cat, but she saw the bird as something completely different. A baby doesn't have the same physical proportions as an adult human at all, who knows what guard dogs who spend most of their time in isolation would think of one, coming upon it for the first time.

LM1313
September 27th, 2006, 01:55 PM
On another dog board I hang out at, there was someone who works for a dog magazine and lives in the town and they had more details. Check out k9magazine's post.

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showpost.php?p=461628&postcount=8

To paraphrase, the dogs were guard dogs who lived on the roof, as previously mentioned, and were "let loose" (into the pub) in case of trouble. They were in a "frenzied state" when they came in through the fire door, probably because they were expecting trouble, like on previous occasions.

Also, the mother's partner owns the dogs and runs the pub. The baby's biological father is the one whose parents were stabbed in an unrelated incident.

technodoll
September 27th, 2006, 02:03 PM
what i would like to know is... for guard dogs in a "frenzied state"... did they hurt anyone else except the baby?...

i don't know why they were PTS for doing their job, ie protecting property, which is what they were trained to do. by the baby's own stepfather, no less. Wonder if a person can sue himself?... :cool:

mona_b
September 28th, 2006, 12:56 AM
i don't know why they were PTS for doing their job, ie protecting property, which is what they were trained to do.

And what was the reason for them killing a 5 month old baby?It's not like the baby was breaking into the Pub...Right?..For all we know the baby could have been sleeping.

A well trained guard dog is there to protect property.A well trained guard dog is not trained to maul someone.

I'll use my dog as an example.He is a trained Police Dog(Retired)..He worked with my brother.He is also SchH III titled.He also went through training at the Police K9 Unit.These dogs are trained to "hold" when they are let loose to catch someone.These dogs can do serious damage if they wanted to.But they won't,cause they were not trained that way.Can you imagine all the lawsuits that would be filed if these dogs ripped apart these suspects?

Even with the training my dog has had,he is the most loveable,gentle big suck around.....:) ...But piss him off,and he will let you know it.

technodoll
September 28th, 2006, 09:31 AM
mona my comment had a sarcastic slant... obviously these dogs were BADLY trained and the owner should be held accountable. who's the owner again? oh yeah... the kid's stepfather. :cool:

mastifflover
September 28th, 2006, 10:31 AM
Yes poorly trained guard dogs along with stupid parents that is a recipe for disaster. What the hell were they doing downstairs in the pub while there baby is alone upstairs in the living quarters. They are the ones who need to be held accountable. Yes I understand why the dogs were put down but that would have never happened if the parents were watching there child. But nowadays nobody seems to be responsible for there kids, there is always someone or something else to blame.

technodoll
September 28th, 2006, 10:58 AM
well said, mastifflover... sigh.

paula383
September 28th, 2006, 11:12 AM
yes well said,

Melei'sMom
September 28th, 2006, 11:58 AM
Ok I know every one gets upset when something like this is posted but one of the main reasons for that unrest is that dog attacks are being too often generalized as 'pitbull attacks'

But nowadays nobody seems to be responsible for there kids, there is always someone or something else to blame.

As a parent who takes responsiblity for my children, their actions and my own. I am starting to get a little upset at the generalizations such as these. If you want pitbulls and their owners to be treated fairly and not generalized, please show the same respect to parents who also don't want to be generalized.

Thank you.

mastifflover
September 28th, 2006, 12:15 PM
I don't know about you but I have read about so many children being bitten and attacked, so where are the parents? Are they just stupid or do they need lessons on caring for their own kids or is that societies responsibility to care for them. I think not, I chose not to have kids and if I did have them I would not be leaving my child unsupervised with my dog no matter how much I trust him. I also would not be blaming everyone but my self for my irresponsible behaviour. I feel the same way about irresponsible dog owners.

Melei'sMom
September 28th, 2006, 12:43 PM
The point I am trying to make is just that. There are many parents that are responsible with children and pets. but we don't make the news. Just the few bad apples do. Generalizing dog owners, parents and kids does no good for anyone.

mastifflover
September 28th, 2006, 12:48 PM
Unfortunately the media does not focus on the good as a rule. Why do you think the only dog attacks reported in the papers are pit or rotties or big dogs you never hear about the vicious little dogs who bite or attack. They are not big attention getters. Believe me there are lots of those stories about small dogs doing severe damage to kids as well.

mona_b
September 28th, 2006, 12:56 PM
Melei'sMom,I understand what you are saying.I am a parent also.BUT,with many of these attack that occur are that of parents leaving their kids alone with dogs.Would you leave your baby alone with dogs around?I would hope not.

There have been MANY attacks/killings of kids done by dogs.And in many of these cases the parents were in another room.Or steped out of the room to answer the phone.My god,if you have to leave the room,take the child with you.

But I also see where mastifflover is coming from.And she is right.A professional trainer will also tell you not to leave a child unatended with a dog.

mona_b
September 28th, 2006, 12:58 PM
Believe me there are lots of those stories about small dogs doing severe damage to kids as well.

So very true.And we have talked about that on here some time ago.

I still remember hearing about the Chi who killed a newborn.:sad:

papillonmama
September 28th, 2006, 12:58 PM
Maybe not to this particular case, but I also feel the stupid parents comment to be unfair. I try my best to be a responsible parent to both my kids and pets, but accidents happen, dogs have instincts, some animals are not properly socialized, ill-bred, any number of reasons can come into play, my step daughter was attacked while playing with her aunts pit bulls, while an adult was watching, but it's not because her father is stupid.

It was because the dogs were excited and she was small. The dogs were socialized, trained and trusted with children before. I'm sorry, not every situation is the same.

There are times when the parent is at fault and there are times where the owner of the dog is at fault, and there are times when the dogs nature is at fault. It's dependant on the situation. IMO


Hey Techno-doll, I think you had something earlier, it does kind of look like it might have been set up, like the biological father owed someone something, oh, we'll hurt your kid, still nothing, so they kill him, and the partner. Pretty suspicious. IMO


Edited to add: While I am adamant about children never being left alone with dogs, I don't think that they knew that the dogs had access to the child.

technodoll
September 28th, 2006, 01:04 PM
remember the convo we were having in another thread, where we pinpointed that the majority of responsible dog owers also had well-behaved children? that parenting skills extended to both 2 and 4-legged kids?

seems to me the owner of the rotties was not only an irresponsible dog owner, but an irresponsible (step)parent as well... :shrug:

mastifflover
September 28th, 2006, 01:10 PM
I am sorry if you were offended by the stupid parent comment but if you are a responsible parent of 2 and 4 legged you should not be offended this is not aimed at responsible people. It is aimed at irresponsible stupid people

Melei'sMom
September 28th, 2006, 08:23 PM
I am sorry if you were offended by the stupid parent comment but if you are a responsible parent of 2 and 4 legged you should not be offended this is not aimed at responsible people. It is aimed at irresponsible stupid people

Thank you for the apology.

But nowadays nobody seems to be responsible for there kids, there is always someone or something else to blame.

Just for future reference. Those are the words that generalized the comment to include all parents and the reason I got a little upset.

I'm all better now. :)

Prin
September 28th, 2006, 10:01 PM
Just like everything else, the parents with the good kids and good dogs aren't the "squeaky wheels" and are not the ones we usually see.:shrug: