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Ok... Food for Boo..

Prin
September 20th, 2006, 11:19 PM
I've narrowed it down to the following:
DVP Natural Balance Sweet potato and fish
Canidae Lamb and Rice
California Natural Herring and Sweet potato

All supplemented with Innova Evo Red meat.

Or just the Red Meat alone, but frankly I'm a little wary of the high protein...

So of course, because this is food for my babies, I might not be seeing things clearly, so I thought I'd ask for opinions.. What would you choose out of the above.
I posted the ingredients to them all here, if you need to refresh: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=30712

I'll post a poll, just because I can't later. :D

technodoll
September 20th, 2006, 11:53 PM
sorry i'm no help... i say all the choices are good, BUT it will also depend on the food's availability & your budget and what if by chance one of your kids doesn't like the food- you know? :o

i'd like to find Evo red meat, maybe i'll ask my petstore to order me a bag since they carry the regular evo... :rolleyes:

rainbow
September 21st, 2006, 01:19 AM
I would just try the EVO by itself.

Puppyluv
September 21st, 2006, 07:41 AM
I'm with rainbow. I personally am not concerned about the protein content, I mean, look at Raw, it's pretty darn high protein.

mafiaprincess
September 21st, 2006, 07:51 AM
My local Global had evo RM when I bought that dirty WK bag the other day.

Scott_B
September 21st, 2006, 08:07 AM
I'm with rainbow. I personally am not concerned about the protein content, I mean, look at Raw, it's pretty darn high protein.

actually its not. Most raw meats are in the 20-25% protien range.

These are for lean meats, so fat would be a bit higher.

.................................... Fat (per 100g) Protein (per 100g)
Turkey
Meat, average, raw ..........1.6............... 22.6=22.6%

Chicken
Meat, average, raw ..........2.1 ...............22.3

Pork
Lean, average, raw ..........4.0 ...............21.8

Lamb
Lean, average, raw ..........8.3 ...............20.2

Beef
Lean, average, raw ..........5.1 ...............22.5

Taken from http://www.britishturkey.co.uk/nutrition/

Puppyluv
September 21st, 2006, 08:28 AM
actually its not. Most raw meats are in the 20-25% protien range.

These are for lean meats, so fat would be a bit higher.

.................................... Fat (per 100g) Protein (per 100g)
Turkey
Meat, average, raw ..........1.6............... 22.6=22.6%

Chicken
Meat, average, raw ..........2.1 ...............22.3

Pork
Lean, average, raw ..........4.0 ...............21.8

Lamb
Lean, average, raw ..........8.3 ...............20.2

Beef
Lean, average, raw ..........5.1 ...............22.5

Taken from http://www.britishturkey.co.uk/nutrition/

According to the Evo website, I would be feeding layla 1 2/3 cups of dry food, which works out to be 0.44 lbs (200 g) . 42% of which is protein=85 grams.
I feed layla about a pound of meat (not including bone) a day. So 1 lb= 454 g. 21% (app) is protein=95 grams. That is not even including bone. So yes. Precentage wise, there is less protein in raw, but in absoute values (which is what matters) there is more.

RaYne
September 21st, 2006, 09:20 AM
Just passing along some info I was told by someone at California Natural. It's a very RICH food. A super slow switch is a must. It caused 'booty blowout' even on stomach of steel, Lola.

I know you haven't decided on CN.. But I'm just mentioning it because I know you don't want to feed anymore of the Wolfking to Boo. I just found the transition insanely slow (1.5 months). So it would need to be 'mixed' for quite some time. It is a good food though.. so it all comes down to how quick you want to switch.

Onto the poll. ;) I'd say Canidae Lamb mixed with EVO red meat. Gives him a little more variety than just a single protein.

vfrohloff
September 21st, 2006, 09:38 AM
Not to discourage you from California Natural, but I used to have my cats on it and the pet store stopped carrying it because they said CN was horrible for delaying shipments. Maybe just find out from your store if they've had any shipping problems with CN. Other than that, I would feed the Canidae Lamb and Rice.

Prin
September 21st, 2006, 09:56 AM
Ok.. Thanks for your input...

The tips on California Natural pretty well sealed the deal because I would have to order it every time. :rolleyes: And I also don't have time for a 2 month switch... Maybe I'll just start on Evo Red Meat for a while first... With the lack of fiber, I might escape the switch with a couple of rolls of paper towel to spare.:D

Techno, I can't get any of these, but I can order any of them. :shrug: That's why TO's not on the list. It seems getting it here means dealing with their customer service and that just ain't happening.

SuperWanda
September 21st, 2006, 10:01 AM
I think I am in the same boat as you Prin.

I haven't even gotten a reply from Solid Gold and I think I was one of the first to e-mail.

Not happy with the lack of response from Timberwolf Organics either. If you are going to spend so much money on their products they should at least be able to answer a few questions in a reasonable time frame. I know in the past that Orijen, Acana and Petcurean have always been quick to reply and I guess that is what I expect!!! I guess TO are rather new but you'd think they'd have more people for the customer service part!!!

Maybe I should just find a very easy to digest chicken formula for my sensitive dog and get something that doesn't have chicken or lamb for my allergy dog. It's really hard to find something that has the palatability, quality and availability!!!

Prin
September 21st, 2006, 10:06 AM
TO isn't that new. Last time I was looking for food they existed and that was about 2.5 years ago. :frustrated:

Maybe I should just find a very easy to digest chicken formula for my sensitive dog and get something that doesn't have chicken or lamb for my allergy dog.
That's what I thought, but if you find something for the hard guy, the other guy can eat it too.:D

Prin
September 21st, 2006, 10:09 AM
So nobody likes DVP Natural Balance Sweet potato and fish?:o

SuperWanda
September 21st, 2006, 10:19 AM
I don't mind that one - are you wary that they have the sweet potatoes as the first ingredient before the fish?

Prin
September 21st, 2006, 10:21 AM
Yeah, but that's the only carb, plus with supplementation with Evo Red meat, it would balance out (only more fishy).

I found a store in Laval that has the Evo Red Meat in stock! Yey! And she can order any of the above for me. Wooo!!!:highfive:

RaYne
September 21st, 2006, 10:32 AM
Great news! I bet that's a huge relief. :thumbs up

technodoll
September 21st, 2006, 12:20 PM
hey prin, i stopped at my next-door petstore on the way to work this morning and ordered a big bag of EVO red meat for the beanies... it'll be there next week (they order food twice per month). they better like it, LOL! oh and it's a little more expensive than the poultry EVO, wonder what the end cost will be :eek: Let's compare to see if my store is fair on prices!

I still have a bunch of Nutro Rice & Lamb to get rid of so EVO is the perfect mixer. with all the raw meat they get... i need to add in *some* junk for the fiber besides whole-wheat bagels and creamcheese toasts! LOL :o

whew. what an adventure. Let me know when you feed them their first "new meals"! :highfive:

meb999
September 21st, 2006, 05:36 PM
Could you guys post how much you are spending on EVO, because my local store carries it (only the regular, not the red meat) but it's insanely expensive. i know I'll be feeding less...but wow!! That's alot of $$$
It's 78 $ (plus taxe) for a 28 pound bag.

mafiaprincess
September 21st, 2006, 08:35 PM
I just paid 21.99 plus tax for a 6.6 pound bag of EVO RM. I know that's not what you bought, but it may help you compare.. :shrug:

coppperbelle
September 21st, 2006, 08:55 PM
Prin
Like you I have been an advocate for Solid Gold, Wolf King for some time now. I cannot tell you how disappointed and guilty I am feeling knowing that I am going to have to change a food they are doing so well on. Tonight I was looking at the different foods and trying to decide what to feed. I am leaning towards DVP Venison and brown rice but I still have some searching to do. I am afraid to use any of the Innova foods. Tonight I read the ingredients of Canidae, Eagle Pack Holistic and a few others. I keep going back to the DVP. I forgot to check California Natural and will check that out.
I went to the Solid Gold site tonight to see if it had been updated and the site was down. Hmmmm, do you think they got the hint?

Good luck in your search and be sure to share it with us. I am running low on food and have to make a decision this weekend.

technodoll
September 21st, 2006, 09:05 PM
It's 78 $ (plus taxe) for a 28 pound bag.

meb999, the 28.6lbs bag of regular EVO costs $71 at my petstore... plus taxes, it's freaking expensive :eek: man, i can buy so much meat at the butcher's for that, LOL!

in comparion, the same-sized bag cost me US $43 when bought over the border :eek: i may make another trip to get some more... :rolleyes:

coppperbelle
September 21st, 2006, 09:19 PM
[QUOTE=technodoll]meb999, the 28.6lbs bag of regular EVO costs $71 at my petstore... plus taxes, it's freaking expensive :eek: man, i can buy so much meat at the butcher's for that, LOL!

in comparion, the same-sized bag cost me US $43 when bought over the border :eek: i may make another trip to get some more... :rolleyes:[/

QUOTE]

I buy my dog food on the other side of the border. I save a huge amount of money.

technodoll
September 21st, 2006, 09:23 PM
copperbelle, where do you go?

and did you ever have trouble bringing food back over the border?... or do you stay in the states overnight?...

:confused: :)

Prin
September 21st, 2006, 10:08 PM
Ok, the Evo red meat was $37.99 +tx for a medium bag (6kgs/13.2 lbs). Not too expensive considering you'll be feeding significantly less of it.

The only problem I have with it so far is I can't leave the bag out... I mean, they LOVED the wolf king, but Jemma is protecting the Evo bag with her life, growling at any dog (i.e. Boo) who goes near it, and I keep catching one or the other with their head in the bag (meanwhile the SG bag just sits there untouched and wiiiiide open). It's really, really funny and makes me think I got the right food.

I also ordered DVP sweet potato and fish. I might supplement the evo with it (I thought it would be the other way around) but the DVP is pretty expensive ($69.99 for less than 30lbs).

The Evo kibbles are so tiny! Now when people ask for tiny kibbles, I'll know a food to answer with...:D

I'm still not sure of the switch though... I mean, the SG is basically a cold turkey switch, so do I bother switching them from it? I just don't want to give it to them anymore. :o

Prin
September 21st, 2006, 10:11 PM
Oh and we discovered (me and the owner of the store) that Nature's Variety removed menadione from their bags for bags expiring June 2007. :) Before that, they have menadione (at the store there was one due April 2007 and it still had menadione on the label).

technodoll
September 21st, 2006, 10:20 PM
prin, if you do a cold-turkey switch, i'm pretty sure you'll have *some* runny poops but it might not be that bad... no grains often means less belly troubles! maybe mix in some home-cooked rice with the rice water?.. or digestive enzymes at first... ya know, all the ol' tricks in the bag :D

that is soooo funny about jemma "protecting" the new food... yeah, i think it was time for a change, listen to your doggies :angel: i want a video of that! oh please pretty please!

will you return the WK bag now?

maybe we can preach... "a catchy name and a fancy bag do not a good food make... must do your research!" :cool: (sorry but i never liked any of the SG foods... but that's just me :o )

now i can't wait to get our Evo RM! the kibbles are the same size as the Fromm's ones BTW.

Prin
September 21st, 2006, 10:24 PM
I only liked the bison solid gold formulas. The rest weren't very great.:shrug:

I know I'll get some unhappiness from their colons if I switch them cold turkey, but they are already going through the cold turkey with the *new and disproved* WK, so there's really no stability factor in the switch.:shrug:

technodoll
September 21st, 2006, 10:26 PM
yeah totally... if they,re gonna have the squirts, it might as well be on the new food eh? but YOU NEVER KNOW! :fingerscr

when do they get their first taste?

Prin
September 21st, 2006, 10:27 PM
They've already had a cup each in three portions throughout the day. (Hence Jemma guarding the bag).

technodoll
September 21st, 2006, 10:28 PM
hurrah! now the waiting begins... good luck, guys! :pray:

mafiaprincess
September 21st, 2006, 10:32 PM
Cider's jealous...
We have dvp in a container in the kitchen, with NV freeze dried and evo rm sitting in the bags beside it.. She ate her ground beef and rice, but kept pushing the nv and evo bags aroudn the kitchen with her head...

Prin
September 21st, 2006, 10:45 PM
lol I'm just hoping the DVP is worth the money somehow.:D

mafiaprincess
September 21st, 2006, 11:01 PM
I never saw how expensive anything other than the smallest bags of stuff were.. I had no idea the dvp was so much.. But then again I just bought the DVP ultra one, and it's cheap at like 9.50 for the small bag.. But the allergy formulas were like 17 for the same bag size..

Prin
September 21st, 2006, 11:05 PM
Yeah, pretty expensive. More expensive than most of the other ones.:shrug:

technodoll
September 21st, 2006, 11:06 PM
i've tried the DVP kibble (well dakotah did, not me LOL) and cannot say if it was better or worse than other holistic brands :shrug: he liked it fine enough but no miracles came from that food, LOL! i'd rather use the money to buy real meat and supplement cheaper kibbles... :shrug:

greaterdane
September 21st, 2006, 11:58 PM
I pay about $30 USD for the big bag of Evo, and $35 for the big bag of Evo Red.

You can get the large kibble size for the Evo, so I'm sure they will be out with a larger kibble for the RM as well.

mafiaprincess
September 22nd, 2006, 12:11 AM
Cider went for the self serve dog food..
Never ever had an issue leaving kibble in the kitchen...
EVO rm opened too easy.. and she got a mouthful and liked it..
Turns out the NV freeze dried I got is chicken, and she likes that even better.. I gave her a few kibbles, went to the bathroom, and she's ROLLING on the dog food bag, and pawing at it and crying...

WOW.

technodoll
September 22nd, 2006, 09:22 AM
go cider, go! :highfive:

greaterdane, where do you shop?? i got the big bag of EVO in Boston last August and it was $43 for the 28.6 lbs. i want to shop where you shop! :)

SuperWanda
September 22nd, 2006, 01:36 PM
actually its not. Most raw meats are in the 20-25% protien range.

These are for lean meats, so fat would be a bit higher.

.................................... Fat (per 100g) Protein (per 100g)
Turkey
Meat, average, raw ..........1.6............... 22.6=22.6%

Chicken
Meat, average, raw ..........2.1 ...............22.3

Pork
Lean, average, raw ..........4.0 ...............21.8

Lamb
Lean, average, raw ..........8.3 ...............20.2

Beef
Lean, average, raw ..........5.1 ...............22.5

Taken from http://www.britishturkey.co.uk/nutrition/

A little bit :offtopic:

Can somebody help me out here about protein levels!!!

This is really confusing to me as well and maybe because I not a mathematician! Understanding that scientific research shows that high protein diets are safe and with the formulation of these high protein kibbles - specifically Innova Evo and Orijen which are in the 40% range. Understanding that raw meat is lower in protein - as stated above - when will an animal ever consume a meal that is that high in protein. Is it taxing on the body of a dog to consume a diet rich in this much protein in one shot? That's where I don't understand the difference when these diets try to mirror the biological diet. If my dog is just going to pee the protein out he doesn't need - should I be paying for more protein. I don't even know how much he needs or can use. I don't know how much protein is even consumed in a natural diet (for a wolf for example).

Puppyluv
September 22nd, 2006, 01:39 PM
Superwanda: the problem with the little chart that Scott but up, is that meat is wet, while kibble is dry. Yeah, protein takes up 42% of evo, but add enough water to it so that it is the same density of nutrients as raw meat, and it drops down to slightly less than what is in raw meat. If you look at my post below Scott's post, you'll see that, when you compare absolute protein values, evo has slightly less protein than raw meat does, and absolute values are what really matter anyways.

SuperWanda
September 22nd, 2006, 02:34 PM
Thanks Puppyluv,

I found this website where you can look up the protein
content of over 6000 foods (http://www.ars.usda.gov/main/site_main.htm?modecode=12354500)
Choose "Search" on this page and you will be directed to their food
composition search engine.

If you look up chicken breast, raw, meat only, on the USDA web site, you
will find that 100 grams of this meat contains 75 grams water, 23 grams of
protein, and 1 gram fat and 1 gram ash (which is the mineral content). If
you look up this same food after it is cooked it will contain less water
and more protein and fat - now it has 65 g of water and 31 grams of protein, 4 grams of fat and 1 gram of ash

So for 100g of chicken you are changing the protein from 23g to 31g just by cooking it.

:sorry: Just like to figure all this stuff out!!!

Scott_B
September 22nd, 2006, 05:09 PM
Exactly. :thumbs up

Puppyluv
September 22nd, 2006, 05:17 PM
So for 100g of chicken you are changing the protein from 23g to 31g just by cooking it.

:sorry: Just like to figure all this stuff out!!!
Not exactly. 100g of raw meat has 23 g and 100g of cooked meat has 31 g, but cooking 100g of cooked meat will not turn that 23g into 31g, it will just decrease the 100g to 90g due to water loss. so %protein increases, but absolute doesn't.

SuperWanda
September 22nd, 2006, 05:40 PM
Ok.... I did take biochemistry. I guess I'm not too clear on what absolute protein is and how you determine that amount????

Am I going to have to whip out my mass spectrometer???? Cause I don't wanna have to do that :D

Puppyluv
September 22nd, 2006, 05:51 PM
Ok.... I did take biochemistry. I guess I'm not too clear on what absolute protein is and how you determine that amount????

Am I going to have to whip out my mass spectrometer???? Cause I don't wanna have to do that :D
LOL god no!! NO MASS SPEC PLEASE!!!! (I'm done with analytical chemistry thank you) I just mean "absolute" rather than a percentage. When you were saying that cooking the breast increases the protein from 23g to 31g you weren't quite correct. It would stay at 23g of protein, but because the water content drops, the total mass drops. so it goes from 23g protein/100g (23% protein) to 23g protein/90g (26%) ( I don't know if it actually loses 10g of water, it may lose more). 100g of cooked breast has 31g of protein, but when that same breast was raw, it probably weighed more like 110-115g when it was raw. I'm just saying you can't REALLY compare 100g of raw to 100g o cooked and say "look! it increased in protein!!" because it didn't. that 100g of cooked started out as more than 100g of raw and always had that much protein.

MyBirdIsEvil
September 22nd, 2006, 05:58 PM
To end up with 100 g of cooked chicken you have to start out with MORE than 100 g raw because you're cooking off a lot of the water, which is why 100 g of cooked chicken has more protein than 100 g of raw chicken.

That's about the simplest way I can think of to explain it.

SuperWanda
September 22nd, 2006, 06:18 PM
I see what you are saying - if i go to that site and put in 200g of raw chicken, then I end up with 46% protein.

I'm not sure if 100g of cooked can be compared to 200g raw but I see the point you are trying to make.

So, now I will have to get some cooked and raw chicken for the final experiment!!!!

Is it therefore generally wise to add more water to the kibble before serving?

technodoll
September 22nd, 2006, 06:21 PM
i :love: you guys! cuz I'll be going to be a bit smarter tonight, LOL! :highfive:

technodoll
September 22nd, 2006, 06:23 PM
if i go to that site and put in 200g of chicken, and cook it up in our magic oven, then I end up with 46% protein

er, no the protein % stays the same no matter how much cooked chicken you make. it's the grams of fat, protein, etc that will increase :)

say you drink 1 glass of 1% milk. drinking 2 glasses will not make it 2% - see? :)

SuperWanda
September 22nd, 2006, 06:27 PM
Yes - I got my cooked and raw chicken mixed up and changed my previous post.

technodoll
September 22nd, 2006, 06:33 PM
Yes - I got my cooked and raw chicken mixed up and changed my previous post.

doesn't matter if the meat is raw or cooked... the absolute value (%) stays the same no matter the quantity :) just as my example of a glass of milk says...

Puppyluv
September 22nd, 2006, 06:38 PM
I see what you are saying - if i go to that site and put in 200g of raw chicken, then I end up with 46% protein.

I'm not sure if 100g of cooked can be compared to 200g raw but I see the point you are trying to make.

So, now I will have to get some cooked and raw chicken for the final experiment!!!!

Is it therefore generally wise to add more water to the kibble before serving?

The only thing adding water to it will do, is 1) make it moist (obviously, Iknow) and 2) technically it will decrease the %protein, if you were to weigh the total meal (food+water). If dry food came wet, but was otherwise had the exact same composition, the % protein of all the foods out there would drop dramatically, because you have to include the water in the measurements. So back to my argument for Evo.... if Evo came wet (ie. not dried, rather than canned) it would have a quite similar composition (nutrient wise) to meat.

SuperWanda
September 22nd, 2006, 06:39 PM
Not exactly. 100g of raw meat has 23 g and 100g of cooked meat has 31 g, but cooking 100g of cooked meat will not turn that 23g into 31g, it will just decrease the 100g to 90g due to water loss. so %protein increases, but absolute doesn't.

I thought absolute protein and % protein were different????

I think I'm going to burst a brain cell here people!!!!

Frenchy
September 22nd, 2006, 06:43 PM
How come nobody's feeding Fromm? If they would sell it in my area,I would probably buy it,they have 4 different kind of fish food (perfect for dogs with allergies) I really like what I saw when I checked out their website.Might be good for Boo?

Puppyluv
September 22nd, 2006, 06:54 PM
I thought absolute protein and % protein were different????

I think I'm going to burst a brain cell here people!!!!
they are in the sense that, while absolute protein may not change, depending on the other stuff, % protein might.

Absolute protein is simply, how many grams there are. But % protein is how many grams of protein relative to how much the entire thing weighs.

So a raw 100g chicken breast has: Absolute=23 grams Percent=23%
But then you cook it, and it loses water, so it now weighs 85 grams (let's just say)
so it has: Absolute=(still) 23 grams Percent=% (23/90*100=26)
A cooked 100g chicken breast has: Absolute=31 grams Percent=31%
But before it was cooked, it weighed 130 grams (let's just say)
so it had Absolute=(still) 31 grams Percent=24%
(these estimations of pre and post cooking weights aren't accurate, because they should, in theory equal out to always be the same %protein for all the pre-cooked and then for all the pos-cooked breasts, but this is just for the sake of explanation)

coppperbelle
September 22nd, 2006, 07:47 PM
copperbelle, where do you go?

and did you ever have trouble bringing food back over the border?... or do you stay in the states overnight?...

:confused: :)

I have a cottage in the U.S. so bringing it back has not been a problem.

meb999
September 22nd, 2006, 07:51 PM
How come nobody's feeding Fromm? If they would sell it in my area,I would probably buy it,they have 4 different kind of fish food (perfect for dogs with allergies) I really like what I saw when I checked out their website.Might be good for Boo?

They still have menadione, no? Or are they the company who's removed it from their products, but haven't changed their website yet?

coppperbelle
September 22nd, 2006, 07:51 PM
My cottage is in New York state but I have been buying my Solid Gold from a supplier in Vermont. I am going to give him a call tomorrow and see what he thinks. He was a breeder of Akita's and has been a supplier for Sold Gold for over 20 years. He is a smart man so he should have some opinions on the changes.

Frenchy
September 22nd, 2006, 07:59 PM
I really don't know what menadione is,guess it's bad....

meb999
September 22nd, 2006, 08:03 PM
I really don't know what menadione is,guess it's bad....

see : http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=30612&highlight=menadione

coppperbelle
September 22nd, 2006, 08:03 PM
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whole Ground Brown Rice, Whole Ground Barley, Oatmeal, Potato Flour, Tomato Pomace, Chicken Fat (preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols), Natural Flavor, Whole Sweet Potatoes, Whole Carrots, Ground Flaxseed, Alfalfa Meal, Herring Oil, Sea Salt, Dried Molasses, Malted Barley Flour, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Zinc), Iron Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Iron), Mixed Tocopherols, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Taurine, Green Lipped Mussel, Sea Cucumber, Chondroitin Sulfate, Yucca Shidigera Extract, Garlic, Spirulina, Lecithin, L-Carnitine, Dried Kelp, Parsley, Turmeric, Green Tea Extract, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Casei, Enterococcus Faecium, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum, Niacin, Copper Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Copper), Vitamin D Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Manganese Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Manganese), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamin Hydrochloride, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Calcium Iodate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid, Vitamin K Supplement, Biotin.

meb999
September 22nd, 2006, 08:05 PM
ooooo, and : http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=29688&highlight=menadione

They still have it in their food.

coppperbelle
September 22nd, 2006, 08:08 PM
It contains menadione. Didn't notice it in the Adult large breed formula that I posted before this

This is the regular adult formula

Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whole Ground Brown Rice, Whole Ground Barley, Rye , Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Citric Acid and Rosemary), Whole Carrots, Whole Sweet Potatoes, Ground Flax Seed, Alfalfa, Herring Oil, Sea Salt, Barley Grass, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols), Calcium Phosphate, Dried Kelp, Whole Garlic Cloves, Lecithin, Parsley, Glucosamine, Spirulina, Yucca Schidigera, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bacillus Subtilis, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum, Bifidobacterium Longum, Enterococcus Faecium, Zinc Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Zinc), Choline Chloride, Iron Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Iron), Turmeric, Vitamin E Supplement , Manganese Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Manganese), Natural Color, Beta Carotene, Copper Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Copper), Potassium Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Potassium), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Calcium Pentothenate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Potassium Iodide, Biotin, Cobalt Proteinate (source of Chelated Cobalt), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Dimethylpyrimidinol Bisulfite (source of Vitamin K activity), Sodium Selenite.

Frenchy
September 22nd, 2006, 08:15 PM
Now you got me all worried! I have to get another bag tomorrow,will take yet,another look at the ingredients.

Prin
September 22nd, 2006, 10:59 PM
Beware the foods that say "Vitamin K supplement". If it's K1, it's ok. If it's K3, it's menadione.

I posted before (hijacked meb's thread a bit... sorry meb) that Boo, who normally has to be allowed a minimum of 2 weeks for a food change, was switched to just Evo completely today (after a little taste yesterday) and already his stool is perfectly firm. :shrug: Jemma's a bit looser, but still ok (she's easier usually). I decided that since they weren't digesting the new WK, there was no point in doing a switch over...:shrug:

:fingerscr that they stay ok...

technodoll
September 22nd, 2006, 11:03 PM
prin they'll not only stay OK, they will get better and better. Grains are really nasty for dogs in the long run... just not species appropriate, no matter how you cut it :shrug:

will you be supplementing the EVO RM with anything else? or still debating?...

sooo happy the switch-over went well! three cheers! :dog:

Frenchy
September 22nd, 2006, 11:05 PM
:confused: ,I just find the ingedient in my dog's food,one of the last one the list ; menadione sodium bisulfite....

meb999
September 22nd, 2006, 11:19 PM
menadione sodium bisulfite

yup, that's the stuff...it's not the end of the world, but you may want to consider switching to a food that doesn't have it.

Prin
September 22nd, 2006, 11:41 PM
Or just supplement with some antioxidants (like vitamin E).

Techno, I already ordered a bag of Natural Balance Sweet potato and fish, so I might just go through that and see after that... I haven't gotten it yet though.

The only thing I'm iffy about is how much Evo to feed... OG says not much, and logically it should be less than SG, but they were already getting so little on SG... :shrug:

Scott_B
September 23rd, 2006, 05:29 AM
Glad to her your pups have made the change and fairly smooth Prin! Thumbs up for Evo :thumbs up

OntarioGreys
September 23rd, 2006, 11:35 AM
Prin, If you want to do a complete switch the best way to do with the least digestive upset is to do a 24 hour fast.

I have had a few greyhounds here that arrived directly from the track adoption kennel , they are not fed anything 12hours before a haul inorder to avoid motionsickness vomitting and possioble aspiration which could lead to pneumonia, they get their first meal at the bathing site or at the foster home, none of my fosters or Maya had diarrhea with the fast. Because the greyhound come for several different tracks, it would be too hard to keep track of who feeds what and some simply use donated food, so we start them off right away with what we want to feed.


I know the protein levels you still have concerns about, I think the dogfoodprojects.com explains it nicely about the quality of the protein, especially the very last sentence really sums it up
I guess in really simple terms you can compare it to the engine of a car and the type of fuel you use. Just because you use high octane gas in a car that doesn't need it, it's not going to do any damage, but if you use poor quality fuel, regardless whether it is high or low octane, there will be buildup in the engine that hampers performance and will eventually lead to damage.

Consider a wolf in the wild, who will eat relatively little else but meat if they can help it - these animals don't get kidney diseases on the same scale domestic dogs do
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=protein_myth

My mom's shih tzu had always ate lower protein(Hill;s Science Diet regular and later the prescription for kidney) she dies of kidney failure and developed heart disease while on the prescription which is used as a dietary treatment for dogs that develop heart conditions, her teeth were not the cause since she had yearly dentals so why get deart disease on a food that is suppose to help in the treatment of- my answer is low protein diets cause muscle wasting and the heart is a muscle.


My choice would be the EVO RM, I simply do not feel fish based food that are fed daily is safe for dogs there is just too much toxins in fish for me to be comfortable with, humans must limit their intake of even wild salmon is only recommended 4 meals a months due to their absorption of pollutants like PCB's mercury and dioxins in their fat cells and flesh, and farmed salmon only 2 meals a months. I know about salmon is considered a great source of EPA fatty acids but you have to weigh the risks of these chemicals of feeding daily over the benefit of getting a great source of EPA fatty acids, it is the reason I won't feed fish based foods , I feel a bit added as an supplement to the food is sufficient, as long as they get sufficent fat they will have a nice coat, I don't give other oil supplements and Maya's black coat still gleams, which I think is pretty impressive for a breed that has no natural body oils like labs.

Dogs handle chemicals toxins like fish and humans they can't excrete these toxins in their urine, the liver/kidneys seperate it and then it gets moved and stored in the dogs fat cells, because greyhound have such low body fat this is a subject I had to learn about early on, as many flea products out there, and lawn pesticides are very toxic and dangerous to greyhounds as they don't have the same amount of fat cells to store toxins as other breeds so they hit the limits earlier and then the liver and kidneys start failing , may ecplain why bone cancer is the number one killer of greyhounds. Once I understood how toxins are handled by the body it had me changing what kind of products I use around the home and also I do not use heartworms with flea contol and will use a flea product only if needed which I needed only once in 5 years and one dose was used to treat all 3 of my own dogs. As an outdoor insecticide I use Diatomaceous earth rather than chemnical pesticides. The idea of my dogs being chemical storage facilities just does not appeal to me, so I do what I can to keep their exposure to chemicals as low as possible
I picked up a bag of EVO RM today 28.6lb bag/13kg was $74.99 before taxes, you might need 4 to 5 cups a day for your 2 dogs, I have found the feeding guidelines on most foods as being on the high side for the average pet being mine have lower energy outputs than labs I can feed all 4 on approx 4 1/2 cups a day for example for Winnie the guidelines suggest 1 1/2 cups as a pup, but 3/4 of a cup appears to be working ideal he has gained some weight though he is close to being full grown. Nikki is almost 9 years old 26 to 27 lbs gets the same her weight has held beautifully, vet is happy with her weight, I need to be careful not to gain too much weight as she has mild patella problems which so far she has shown no symptoms of, Sunny 82 to 84 lbs 8 years old and Maya 70lbs 4 years old get 1 1/2 cups if they have been active in the day I bump them up to 1 3/4 a day

As for kibble size my dogs don't sit there chewing and swallowing their food like humans do their molars are designed to tear food down to bite size pieces that can be swallowed, they are not flat top like ours that is designed to grind food up, so the smaller size simply aids the stomach in having to do less work to break it down so the less time break down the more time it has to absorb the nutrients, I think they came out later with the larger kibble in the regular EVO just to please customers I know when I picked up the larger kibble my gang was not all that impressed with it and fussed over the food it was surprising as all 3 dogs reacted the same I thought is was a fluke so tried another bag later on and same thing happened, they were much happier with their smaller bits. :shrug:

Edited to add I started this yesterday before you posted about the switch, just finished today so glad the transition went okay

OntarioGreys
September 23rd, 2006, 11:57 AM
I thought absolute protein and % protein were different????

I think I'm going to burst a brain cell here people!!!!

The percent of protein is based on weight, a 100 gram piece of raw chicken is going to weigh less once it is cooked and some of the water is steamed off,

it may start if as 80% water but roasting may drop the water content to 50% so that chicken is now lighter in weight because the protein is a percent of weight the protein percent is now higher because that piece of chicken may weigh 75 grams now

The AAFCO guidelines are formulated on a dry matter basis, so that all foods can be compared equally

which is why 42% protein in EVO seems like a lot but in reality it is closer to a raw diet than a food that has 26% protein which means most of the food is carbs not protein

Prin
September 23rd, 2006, 12:34 PM
Thanks, OG... I was waiting for you to get your opinion in.

Day 2 is going ok so far... Boo isn't as thrilled about the evo today for some reason, but Jemma is still going nuts for it. Makes me wonder because Boo is more of an omnivore than Jemma, so maybe he needs something added... :shrug: Maybe he just needs some extra veg or something.

mafiaprincess
September 23rd, 2006, 02:42 PM
Same Prin..
Cider went wild for the evo rm/ NV/ DVP last night.. (she got it as her first real meal) This morning we had a NORMAL poop *gasp* and then for breakfast, I had to tell her to go eat.. I don't think she likes the tiny kibbles of the nv and evo rm..
But when she finally ate, she kept sniffing the dog food containers...

rainbow
September 23rd, 2006, 04:55 PM
Prin, glad to hear the switch is going well. :thumbs up

I have been toying with the idea of switching to EVO from the regular Innova that I am currently feeding. I checked the feeding guidelines and for an 80lb. dog it says you should feed more of the EVO than the regular. :eek:



EVO Red Meat

100% Dry Food

Moderate

3 1/4 cups

Yields 1583 Kcals
Recommended Kcals/day:
1611±10% (1450-1772) Total 1583 Kcals/day


Inactive

3 cups

Yields 1461 Kcals
Recommended Kcals/day:
1467±10% (1320-1613) Total 1461 Kcals/day


Active

3 5/8 cups

Yields 1765 Kcals
Recommended Kcals/day:
1778±10% (1600-1955) Total 1765 Kcals/day


Extremely Active

4 1/2 cups

Yields 2192 Kcals
Recommended Kcals/day:
2222±10% (2000-2444) Total 2192 Kcals/day



Innova Regular


Moderate

2 7/8 cups

Yields 1601 Kcals
Recommended Kcals/day:
1611±10% (1450-1772) Total 1601 Kcals/day


Inactive

2 5/8 cups

Yields 1462 Kcals
Recommended Kcals/day:
1467±10% (1320-1613) Total 1462 Kcals/day


Active

3 cups

Yields 1671 Kcals
Recommended Kcals/day:
1778±10% (1600-1955) Total 1671 Kcals/day


Extremely Active

3 7/8 cups

Yields 2158 Kcals
Recommended Kcals/day:
2222±10% (2000-2444) Total 2158

Prin
September 23rd, 2006, 05:05 PM
I know! What's up with that?:confused:

rainbow
September 23rd, 2006, 05:20 PM
I was hoping you could explain. :D

Prin
September 23rd, 2006, 05:22 PM
I dunno- and why are the kcals so much higher per cup in the regular? Think it's the carbs?

technodoll
September 23rd, 2006, 05:22 PM
oooh i can! i can! "no grains" :D

i keep telling folks grains are not species-appropriate and most dogs' tummies are happy not to have to work extra-hard to digest 'em.... :D

ps: prin, if jemma has loose stools you can try feeding her less... since Evo's more digestible, eh? :highfive:

Prin
September 23rd, 2006, 05:26 PM
But techno, can you explain why you're supposed to feed more the the RM than the regular?

Yeah, I should feed her less, but yesterday, I think she got a cup and a bit all day...:o

technodoll
September 23rd, 2006, 06:42 PM
can you explain why you're supposed to feed more the the RM than the regular?

because the regular EVO is 537 calories/cup, and the EVO RM is 487 calories/cup... you would need to feed more of the RM to arrive at the same caloric intake as the poultry recipe :o

if you compare the ingredients, the regular EVO has 5 meats listed before the first fat source, while the RM recipe only has 4 (if you count eggs as being a meat source). this might explain the difference in calories.

handy bonus chart (LOL!) http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=comp-wiz-results&animal=Dog&id1=1404&id2=1246&id3=1246&id4=1246&x=32&y=8

rainbow
September 23rd, 2006, 07:29 PM
TD, the comparison is between the EVO RM and the regular Innova which has three meat sources before the fat and is 557 calories/cup.

So, because it has grains in it, that must mean the grains provide the extra calories therefore you need to feed less of it than the no grains high protein one.

http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=comp-wiz-results&animal=Dog&id1=1404&id2=1&id3=&id4=&x=44&y=11

coppperbelle
September 23rd, 2006, 09:23 PM
I did it today. I bought a bag of DVP Venison for the dogs. I wasn't sure which one to buy and decided that I would try the venison for a few weeks to give them a change. I don't think I will stay with it because I feel that "venison" is too vague.

Perhaps someone can answer something for me.
I do not feed raw but have read enough about it to know that variety is important. Shouldn't it be the same for kibble? When I fed WK it contained both salmon and bison. I supplement with pieces of beef and chicken and sardines along with cottage cheese etc... When I was looking for another kibble I found that most contained a single protein source.
Why is necessary in raw to feed variety yet in kibble a single protein source?

technodoll
September 23rd, 2006, 10:24 PM
rainbow, i think prin was asking the question in regards to EVO regular formula vs EVO Red Meat, which explains the answer I posted (to compare apples to apples, so to speak) :)

Copperbelle, you ask
Why is necessary in raw to feed variety yet in kibble a single protein source?

this explains it better than i can right now... it's all about what makes sense :p

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/KnowledgeBase/knowledgebasedetail.aspx?articleid=4

In addition to freshness, variety is important in your companion’s diet. A more diverse diet is far more likely to provide complete nutrition than a “formulated” diet fed over and over again. While all pet foods on the market meet the AAFCO (Associatation of American Feed Control Officials) standards for “nutrition” for dogs and cats, that does not mean that any one of them are the ideal food for the life of your companion.

A good meal is a pleasurable experience for you, and the same should be true for your companion. However, even a good meal served over and over can become tiresome. You wouldn’t eat Corn Flakes at every meal for years at a time, why ask your companion to eat cereal, the SAME cereal every meal, every day for months or years at a time? It is detrimental to both your health and your companion’s to eat the same thing for months or years at every meal. Consuming the same food repeatedly over long periods of time can contribute to the development of food sensitivities and allergies.

More recently, some veterinarians specializing in feline medicine have stated that inflammatory bowel disease may develop, in part, because of food sensitivities caused by feeding one diet for over a year or two at a time. Feeding cats, who are obligate carnivores, a grain based diet has also been shown to contribute to the incidence of Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUT), (Also known as Feline Urological Syndrome or FUS). The resulting dehydration over a long period of time contributes stress on the kidneys and lining of the urinary tract.

We recommend varying your companion’s diet regularly. If feeding a raw diet, you do not need to “transition” from one type of food to the next. Animals eating kibble, however, should be transitioned gradually over a week or two from one to the other. Cats should not eat dry kibble as a main portion of their diet.

rainbow
September 23rd, 2006, 10:44 PM
rainbow, i think prin was asking the question in regards to EVO regular formula vs EVO Red Meat, which explains the answer I posted (to compare apples to apples, so to speak)


I dunno. The comparison I showed that she replied to said EVO RM and Innova Regular so I thought that's what she was referring to with her reply:

I dunno- and why are the kcals so much higher per cup in the regular? Think it's the carbs?

Aren't "the carbs" she's referring to "the grains"?

:shrug:

technodoll
September 23rd, 2006, 10:56 PM
there are carbs in potatoes... EVO RM has potatoes higher up on the ingredients list... prin, what DID you mean? LOL!

rainbow
September 23rd, 2006, 11:13 PM
Ooops, I forgot about the potatoes. They're 4th in Innova EVO RM, 5th in Innova EVO T + C and 6th in Innova regular. :shrug:

Prin
September 24th, 2006, 12:16 AM
lol I meant the Evo RM vs the innova regular. If the innova evo RM is so loaded and dense (plus has super high protein), why do I have to feed so much?:confused:

Coppperbelle, it's not necessary to have a single protein source. Some have a few, like the nature's variety ones and even the Evo RM. It's just easier for allergy dogs to have one source (which is what the DVP foods are supposed to be about).:shrug:

rainbow
September 24th, 2006, 12:21 AM
lol I meant the Evo RM vs the innova regular. If the innova evo RM is so loaded and dense (plus has super high protein), why do I have to feed so much?

Well, for once I'm on the same wave length. :D

Okay, TD, do you have an answer for us? :)

technodoll
September 24th, 2006, 12:23 AM
If the innova evo RM is so loaded and dense (plus has super high protein), why do I have to feed so much?

ah! it's me who misunderstood the question, LOL!

but the answer remains the same. to achieve the same # of total calories per day, if food A (EVO RM) has less calories per cup than food B (Innova regular), then you have to feed more of food A. However, when you factor in the bioavailabitly of EVO you will understand why the poops are smaller and more compact... more food is absorbed and the quality of nutrients (meat protein vs grain protein) is kinder to the dog's digestive system and ultimately, overall health. :dog:

Prin
September 24th, 2006, 12:36 AM
Ok, but if regular is more grainy, and the dog digests less, why does he eat more of the non-grainy one? Wouldn't more of the regular one be 'wasted'?

technodoll
September 24th, 2006, 12:38 AM
that, i do not know... maybe the company doesn't care and just want people to feed their dogs alot more than they need to... sells more product... :shrug:

wanna write to California Natural and ask? :D

rainbow
September 24th, 2006, 12:39 AM
Prin, why don't you email Innova....they are really good about answering. :D

rainbow
September 24th, 2006, 12:40 AM
TD types faster than me with the same question. :D

technodoll
September 24th, 2006, 12:41 AM
rainbow, must be all that banana cake that i'm not having! :party:

Prin
September 24th, 2006, 12:42 AM
Yeah, I probably will.

On the downside, the Evo RM has made Jemma a drooler. :frustrated:
On the upside, she still ravages it. Boo is ok with it, but not ravagey.

I hope they come out with bigger kibbles because Boo chews his food and he's having a hard time figuring out the small kibbles.:o

rainbow
September 24th, 2006, 01:25 AM
Drooling cuz it's so yummy? :D

BTW, Go Natural (Petcurean) is coming out with an equivalent to Orijen and EVO.

technodoll
September 24th, 2006, 01:27 AM
Go Natural (Petcurean) is coming out with an equivalent to Orijen and EVO.

are you serious! that is AWESOME! :highfive: i love go!natural... where did you get the info, and can i see too? :queen:

Prin
September 24th, 2006, 01:38 AM
Drooling cuz it's so yummy? :D YES. And it's icky. Last week, she was my dainty girl. This week, she's my fartin' droolin' man-dog. :frustrated:

technodoll
September 24th, 2006, 01:40 AM
it'll take a little while for jemma's exhaust pipe to regulate itself :p must have patience, LOL! wear a gas mask?... or add some canned pumpkin... some rice water... a cork... (kidding!)

rainbow
September 24th, 2006, 01:40 AM
The lady at the pet store here told me. I checked Petcurean's website and it says it's "under construction" so they must be updating. I'm also interested and maybe it will have larger kibble for Jemma. :D

technodoll
September 24th, 2006, 01:41 AM
actually petcurean.com works fine....

petcurean. ca is not the right site. oops!

Prin
September 24th, 2006, 01:42 AM
For Boo! Jemma needs the small kibble (easier to inhale). :D

rainbow
September 24th, 2006, 02:01 AM
actually petcurean.com works fine....

petcurean. ca is not the right site. oops!

LOL, I guess I should have thought to check that. :o Even so, petcurean.com needs to seriously update their website....their latest news release is from 2004.

rainbow
September 24th, 2006, 02:02 AM
For Boo! Jemma needs the small kibble (easier to inhale). :D


Hey, that's two screw-ups in a row for me....I must be getting tired. :o

Scott_B
September 24th, 2006, 07:02 AM
omg that is so gross. I'm going to hug my non-droolies now.:D



On the downside, the Evo RM has made Jemma a drooler. :frustrated:



hehe, You spoke too soon in my other thread Prin :p

OntarioGreys
September 24th, 2006, 09:37 AM
My suggestion is feed less than the recommended, if you have a weigh scale at home and are able to left one of the dog , weigh yourself first and then pick up a dog and weigh, then subtract your weight, keep an eye on the weight inorder to adjust the food amount, my vet is only a short drive so I used their scales. Remember with a high protein meat diet what is not used by the body simply gets excreted , it won't put on the fat like grains do, but may build more muscle so you may see some weight gain, so if you are feeding more than necessary it is getting excreted so you judge the amount by loss of weight if they start losing you know to up the amount a bit, my dogs are not getting near the recommended amounts for their weight/age
Maya is 10 lbs over her racing weight gets closer to 1 3/4 cups as she is more active especially now that the weather is cooling off in the hotter summer months I cut her back to 1 1/2 Evo RM recommends on the bag for her size 2 1/2 to 3 cups(60 - 80 lbs) so she gets a cup less and she still gained needed weight

This is what she looked like at 60lbs pretty much a bone rack - note the waist line not the greatest pic my camera had a slow shutter speed so I lost her head :o
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/mleg2001/13bd3b47dc8de62d2e6cafea619b5840-1.jpg

I have no side shots but this is looking down on her so you can see spine and hips, she is close to 70 here, has a nice tuck but her hip pin bones and spine is covered still shows outline of her last 2 ribs.
http://www.mypetpages.net/artists/1731/0/b91eb35a9074b99b780ffddcf019872d.JPG

Sunny is the big boy at 84 lbs he is the lazy one, recommended feeding is 3 to 3 1/2 he gets 1 1/2 cups he is stocky for a grey. when I started him on he was 89 lb and lost 5 which he needed, but since his weight held, his racing weight was 76lbs

http://www.mypetpages.net/artists/1732/0/bf9e94c5db1da2fc35dafae7e3d7b9b0.JPG

I am not starving either of them, they both are over their original racing weights, I like to keep a bit of extra meat on them so if they do get sick they have something to drawn from

Prin
September 24th, 2006, 10:52 AM
Hey, that's two screw-ups in a row for me....I must be getting tired. :o
lol yeah, that's why I went to bed.:D

hehe, You spoke too soon in my other thread Prin No kidding. :rolleyes: Shouldn't have bragged like that before.:D

If Jemma's got stool like a rabbit, am I feeding her too little? I think the loose stool yesterday and Friday was just from the switch... Now, for the first time in her life, she's got "pellets". (lucky nobody here minds the load talk...:o :D) But she's still loving it and I think she loves me a bit more since I got that food...:o

Boo is just sort of blasé about it all. :shrug:

OntarioGreys
September 24th, 2006, 11:54 AM
If Jemma's got stool like a rabbit, am I feeding her too little? I think the loose stool yesterday and Friday was just from the switch... Now, for the first time in her life, she's got "pellets".

Maybe with all that drooling she is getting a little dehydrated, is she drinking more to compensate or maybe less because she is too busy watching the bag of food? Here we are not pellets just smaller and firmer, which is why I think she may be a little dehydrated. I do wet the kibble when I feed not to make soggy, just to have it slide down the throat easier, so they are not coughing it up if they attempt to eat too fast. So one idea add water to the kibble if she is not dirinking as much that or give some veggies/fruit id she likes.

How much does Jemma weigh? Is she fairly active? How much are you trying to feed now?

Prin
September 24th, 2006, 12:15 PM
She's 55-60lbs and is fairly athletic. Yesterday, I'd say I gave her two cups total. She drinks a lot usually.

mafiaprincess
September 24th, 2006, 06:12 PM
We did an immediate switch as well.. and 2/3rd of her daily food is freeze dried/ high protein..
Her poop is smaller than it's been in a long time.. Not rabbit pellets, but noticeably smaller.. and she isn't doing her usual two loads in the morning that she's done for a long while.. It's now just one..

Prin
September 24th, 2006, 11:35 PM
:shrug: Jemma's really happy on it though... :)

technodoll
September 25th, 2006, 09:52 AM
:highfive: for all those nice smaller firmer poops! down with grains, down with grains! :evil: :dog: :D

OntarioGreys
September 25th, 2006, 10:41 AM
One of the real high lights of the EVO is the after winter yard poo clean up, what an amazing difference in amount that had to be picked up and the length of time it took

Prin
September 27th, 2006, 11:52 PM
Ok so I got the DVP Fish today...

In a taste test yesterday with Boo, Evo RM was the clear winner over WK, but Jemma was about 60/40 for the Evo RM, but very enthusiastic for both.

In today's taste test, Boo chose the DVP over the RM. Jemma on the other hand devoured the RM and literally spat the DVP out. :o

I think it's the texture of it they don't really enjoy because they chew it funny. Normally, if Jemma doesn't like the smell of something, she doesn't even take it. She took the DVP, crunched it and spat it out.:shrug:

technodoll
September 28th, 2006, 09:18 AM
i find that dogs, like humans, have days where they like A better than B, then it switches. ... so it's good to have a little variety in the diet :thumbs up

Prin
September 28th, 2006, 08:50 PM
Well, they both ate fine today, with 1/4 of it being DVP for both... Boo was happier, that's for sure. Jemma is just Jemma.:D

rainbow
September 28th, 2006, 10:18 PM
But, at least everything is going well so far. :fingerscr

Prin
September 28th, 2006, 10:19 PM
How am I going to know if they have internal bleeding if the stool is already black?:o

technodoll
September 28th, 2006, 10:27 PM
if there are any broken glasses missing from your house, the dogs ate them and they need emergency vet care!

(ha ha all a joke, of course) :D

Prin
September 28th, 2006, 10:28 PM
ha ha. :frustrated: :D

technodoll
September 28th, 2006, 10:30 PM
seriously. is there less poop now with the EVO?... :o

Prin
September 28th, 2006, 10:36 PM
less poop per load, more loads. :o

technodoll
September 28th, 2006, 10:43 PM
that's weird... how many times per day do they go?...

Prin
September 28th, 2006, 10:52 PM
probably 4 or 5 each.:o

technodoll
September 28th, 2006, 11:31 PM
maybe they're still adjusting to the food switch... that's not really normal. :eek: or maybe they just like to poop! :D

Prin
September 28th, 2006, 11:36 PM
Well, they're hard stools.:shrug: Very, very, very hard... Well see tomorrow after adding a bit of DVP.

rainbow
September 29th, 2006, 12:03 AM
How am I going to know if they have internal bleeding if the stool is already black?:o


Is it black as soon as it comes out? And is it black on the inside too?

Prin
September 29th, 2006, 12:04 AM
umm.. I haven't checked. :o Do I have to check? Yes, as soon as it comes out, and it stays blackish.

It's not black-black, but a very, very, very dark browny black.

rainbow
September 29th, 2006, 12:04 AM
Did you ever email Innova about the feeding amounts?

Prin
September 29th, 2006, 12:05 AM
No, I didn't. I completely forgot till today.:o

rainbow
September 29th, 2006, 12:17 AM
umm.. I haven't checked. :o Do I have to check? Yes, as soon as it comes out, and it stays blackish.

It's not black-black, but a very, very, very dark browny black.

I'm sure it's okay. My dogs have been on the regular Innova (not EVO) and their poops are darker than they used to be. Must be the food. :shrug:

rainbow
September 29th, 2006, 12:18 AM
No, I didn't. I completely forgot till today.:o


So, are you going to?

Prin
September 29th, 2006, 12:37 AM
Just did. ;)

rainbow
September 29th, 2006, 12:54 AM
:thumbs up

technodoll
September 29th, 2006, 09:53 AM
btw, eating meat causes a dog's stools to be dark. adding grains, veggies, bones, makes the stool lighter-colored. when you raw-feed it's fun to see the rainbow of poop colors... a very boney-meal will cause pale poops, sometimes almost chalk-like, and green tripe can cause green poop, a meal of just meat makes dark poop, specially red meats, almost black. :thumbs up

Scott_B
September 29th, 2006, 12:03 PM
btw, eating meat causes a dog's stools to be dark. adding grains, veggies, bones, makes the stool lighter-colored. when you raw-feed it's fun to see the rainbow of poop colors... a very boney-meal will cause pale poops, sometimes almost chalk-like, and green tripe can cause green poop, a meal of just meat makes dark poop, specially red meats, almost black. :thumbs up

I was reading a book at lunch "Raw Dog Food: Making It Work For You And Your Dog" and they mentioned that by mixing certain veggies you can get red & gren poo for the Christmas season lol. :p

technodoll
September 29th, 2006, 12:14 PM
OMG that's hilarious!!! :D

Prin
September 29th, 2006, 03:07 PM
lol Gives a whole new meaning to "Christmas presents"...

rainbow
September 30th, 2006, 02:46 PM
Prin, are the poops still black? My boys' have turned to a more normal colour now.

Prin
September 30th, 2006, 02:49 PM
hmm.. Not black, but smeeeeeeelllllyyyyyy. The DVP got rid of the black, but is really creating a major stink. I think I'm gonna cut back a bit. :sick:

Skryker
September 30th, 2006, 03:15 PM
Prin, I noticed with the switch to Canidae, things are smellier right now. :sick: Hopefully, it's just an adjustment thing and the smell decreases as they get used to the new food. :yuck:

(:D There really is nothing sacred on this site when it comes to our pet's wellbeing, is there? :crazy: )

Prin
September 30th, 2006, 03:16 PM
What did you switch from? I just didn't expect the so-called "detox" phase from holistic to holistic..:rolleyes:

Skryker
September 30th, 2006, 03:22 PM
From the Performatrin Ultra-still switching, in fact. They'd probably be OK on a straight switchover by now, but I still have some Performatrin to use up.

The poop is still firm and such (again, nothing is sacred!) just very smelly.

mafiaprincess
September 30th, 2006, 04:46 PM
Maybe the 'new' WK was doing something more uncool than you knew to your crew.. And they are detoxing cause they were seriously doing bad on it?

I was over feeding Cider I think.. She was pooping different stuff.. hard and small, big and soft.. etc.. Cut back a tad, and they are fairly happy poops no bad bad smell.. Only FOUL smell was the 'new' WK man I nearly puked picking up that poop...

coppperbelle
September 30th, 2006, 07:14 PM
I did an almost cold turkey switch from WK to DVP venison and have not had any smelly anything. I notced the poop today was nice, small and very firm so that is a good sign that they are okay with the switch.
Tomorrow I will be mixing the venison with the fish formula. Hopefully that will go as well.

Prin
September 30th, 2006, 07:16 PM
Let me know if they still do ok on the fish because that's the one I'm giving that is causing the smelliness...

Mafia, I don't think so- they only had the new WK for a few days (maybe a week?) before they got the Evo RM. Maybe... :o

mummummum
September 30th, 2006, 10:47 PM
btw, eating meat causes a dog's stools to be dark. adding grains, veggies, bones, makes the stool lighter-colored. when you raw-feed it's fun to see the rainbow of poop colors... a very boney-meal will cause pale poops, sometimes almost chalk-like, and green tripe can cause green poop, a meal of just meat makes dark poop, specially red meats, almost black. :thumbs up

Trust me when I say you want to be in an entirely different solar system after they've tried beets.

technodoll
September 30th, 2006, 11:43 PM
Trust me when I say you want to be in an entirely different solar system after they've tried beets.

how does a dog get into beets? :eek: :D so... a little stinky? or? :D

Prin
October 1st, 2006, 07:32 PM
K, I couldn't remember where we were talking about the price of Evo RM, so I thought I'd post it here... I got the 28.6lb bag for $74.99 today at woofers.. But they have a loyalty card thingy and mine was full so I got 5% off that and 10% off the cookies I bought.:shrug:

technodoll
October 1st, 2006, 07:47 PM
yep, that,s the price i got quoted too at my neighborhood petstore... i want to go buy mine in the states :frustrated:

meb999
October 1st, 2006, 08:55 PM
The price of the regular EVO went WAY down. The store owner told me Innova reduced the price of their whole EVO line. The big bag (28 pounds....I think) is down to 68$
Wooo!

technodoll
October 1st, 2006, 09:11 PM
hey which store?! mine still charges $71 for the regular EVO :frustrated:

meb999
October 1st, 2006, 09:18 PM
That's without taxes though.....it's the store in St-Lambert. Let me know if you want the address.

technodoll
October 1st, 2006, 09:24 PM
St-Lambert isn't far... would love to know the addy please :) and do they carry the EVO RM?...

meb999
October 1st, 2006, 09:29 PM
I pm'd you the address. They don't hold the RM though....

mafiaprincess
October 4th, 2006, 09:46 PM
Hey Prin.. SG ever get back to your last email?

Apparently pointing out I am an educated customer knocked me off the christmas card list.. No reply from them.

Prin
October 4th, 2006, 10:03 PM
No, no reply. :shrug:

technodoll
October 4th, 2006, 10:05 PM
we should all send them poo in an envelope! :evil:

mafiaprincess
October 4th, 2006, 10:07 PM
But Techno.. Cider's doing these little turdettes now.. I need someone whose dog's having nasty poop and sed that to them. Preferably, someone's whose dog has a SG tummy upset :evil:

Prin
October 4th, 2006, 10:07 PM
Poo resulting from poorly digesting the "new" food.:evil:

Prin
October 4th, 2006, 10:08 PM
heh heh betrayed minds think alike.;)

mafiaprincess
October 4th, 2006, 10:10 PM
hahahah Niiiiiiiice.