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Should Sultan Die?

PattiK
September 19th, 2006, 02:39 PM
Sultan is a 6 year old German Shepherd who needs help.

To read his story please click on this link http://www.torontogsdrescue.org/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=32&board=4.0

You can read about his plight and a letter to Mr. Draper, Chief Inspector of OSPCA

If you can help in any way, please contact the person's involved.

Permission to Crosspost far and wide.

cpietra16
September 19th, 2006, 03:25 PM
I cross posted the site and letter all across Canada (shelters and Rescues) I hope it helps.

twodogsandacat
September 19th, 2006, 04:01 PM
I will be sending an email tomorrow. I have made donations to this humane society. In particular when they shipped the pit bull pups to Erie County (USA) to avoid having to destroy them due to the new revisions in the DOLA.

I also remember the attack by Sultan. It is described as jumping a fence in St. Catharines around the time Bryant started talking pit bulls and was largely ignored by the press (well there was the editorial I wrote mentioning it also as one of the example attacks by dogs other than pit bulls). I don't remember it being described as viscously as it was mentioned in the link. ***

Still the attack is not the point here. It appears that the owners were certainly complying with all orders issues to them and that somebody exceeded the powers given him by the revised DOLA act and that the act does indeed violate quite a few rights many dog owners still believed they had.

***every attack is serious but it shouldn't be used to justify fictitious claims made in unsworn testimony to support a request for a warrant. Truth should be the most powerful in an animal control officers arsenal.

chico2
September 19th, 2006, 04:04 PM
OMG,this dog has been in a shelter for 9 months,never been allowed outside or seeing anybody,not even a vet,or his owners..
His health is deterioating,no doubt from depression and hopelessness :sad:
I did not get the whole story about the attack on the 2 boys,but whatever it was,this is just pure and simple animal cruelty:sad:

PattiK
September 19th, 2006, 04:29 PM
Thanks everyone!

The owners of Sultan are on TGSDR's forum and are so distraught - well every dog owner can imagine.

I'll link this thread over there so the owners can see how many people care about them and their plight.

Thanks so much!

chico2
September 19th, 2006, 04:41 PM
PattiK,there are quiet a few Sheperd owners on this Forum,people here are quick to react to any injustice being done to an animal,I am sure there will be more replies.
I too will send away a letter...

3boys
September 21st, 2006, 11:05 AM
First of all I would like to express that I am a dog owner/lover and have been all my life. I also happen to be the mother of one of the boys Sultan attacked. I just want to clarify a few things: one being that there was no "bad History" between the Tustins/Nielson's and MY family. Most importantly my son was attacked, there was no scrap mark on his face from a fall it was a laceration above his brow from Sultan's teeth. I do have medical records and photos to prove everything I say regarding this matter. Why do I have no creditibilty? with Anna Young? You? The letter that was sent to Mr.Draper (chief Inspector of OSPCA) indicated that everyyhing in Mr.Horvath's file was all hearsay. Every point Anna made in the letter wasn't it based on hearsay? I wasn't contacted, Anna didn't ask me for medical records....when writing such a letter don't you think you should make sure your informed? Isn't the responses here on this site based on what your being told (hearsay)?? The Nielson's and Sultan were given many chances. The Nielson's failed to comply with an interim court order that was put in place, and we STILL didn't seek the "death penalty". The Nielson's and I both AGREED with the 2nd court order and once again the court order was broken. In Mr.Horvath's defence he is doing what he gets paid to do.....HIS JOB :(

mama samoan
September 21st, 2006, 11:59 AM
I have been reading about Sultan, but look forward to hearing both sides of this issue.

chico2
September 21st, 2006, 01:52 PM
3boys,having 3 sons myself(now grown),I can certainly understand how you feel.
I am glad you could further explain the situation.
My main objection is how Sultan is treated now,9 month in solitary,between four cement walls,is not fair to any dog.
I hope this will be resolved one way or the other soon,this dog is suffering:sad:
I am very sorry about what happened to your son,in no way am I minimizing the fact the boys were hurt.

PattiK
September 21st, 2006, 02:48 PM
I don't think the issue here is whether or not your children were attacked.

The issue is, whether or not the SPCA over stepped it's bounds by seizing the Neilson's dog, now unless you drove every day to Niagara Falls and sat outside their home......... What you are providing is heresay ie. you heard it from an A/C officer.
Your children being attacked is not the matter at hand. The matter at hand is the treatment of this poor dog, the role of the SPCA in his current treatment and his seizure.

If you are a dog lover you can hopefully understand what nine months in a small kennel with little human contact can do to a German Shepherd. German Shepherds do not do well in shelter environments.

Further more, it was never alleged there was bad blood between the Neilson's and you. The Neilson's are simply the people who took the dog following the bite, paid for him to go to a trainer and aside from a discrepancy on the dangerous dog sign, complied in full with the order.

To update everyone, the Neilson's are going to court in November for trial. I was going to wait until Di gave me the exact date to post, but........

Di is living a nightmare with this situation. She loves this dog desperatly and is very distraught over all of this.

This case affects all of us especially those of us who donate money and resources to SPCA's. Those of us involved in rescue and rehabilitation, and every tax payer who's money goes to SPCA's. They must be required to comply with their own rules. The horror stories are too many of what can really go on behind closed doors.

chico2
September 21st, 2006, 03:59 PM
PattiK,I too donate every month to the SPCA and you are right,what is being done to Sultan now,is definetly animal-cruelty.
I'd like to know,what preceeded this attack,were the boys teasing him,tormenting him through the fence??
The problem is,the dog is guilty no matter what,he hurt those boys,but does he deserve a deathpenalty?
I really hope,for Sultans sake this is resolved soon,that his owners abide by any rules set and that Sultan will be back home soon.
After nine month of misery,will he ever be a trusting dog again:sad:

PattiK
September 21st, 2006, 05:51 PM
You'll have to forgive me, my head is slightly cloudy.

There are many things that have been said concerning the alleged attack. It has been suggested there were problems between the former owners and the family of one of the attacked children. However as we all know there can be many reasons for dog bites. A trainer who worked 10 private sessions with Sultan indicated he is a high-drive dog who requires alot of exercise, perhaps his needs were not being met and he acted in frustration, certainly not that uncommon. I have a black and tan shepherd cross myself, 100+lbs, my neighbours decided to tease him one day while I was having a nap and "Daddy" was supposed to be watching him, he likes to sleep on the grass on warm summer days, well my neighbours - teenagers, thought it would be funny to hold this little bulldog over the top of the fence, you heard nothing, except the crack when my dog almost took the fence down. And he's like a little kid who doesn't want to grow up, no agression at all, but if the fence hadn't held or if it wasn't 6ft, try telling that to an ACO. Now he barks with hackles up at my neighbours kids - IMHO their own fault. He's a rescue, I got him at 6 mos, with not a lick of training, he didn't know how to walk on lead, had been at large several times, but now, LOL 1.5 years later - almost perfect - well not quite, but it took lots of training, working positively on his drives and maturity. I'll respectfully submit that often children don't understand dog psyche and therefore do things they shouldn't around dogs.

This is a situation where anyone who rescues dogs, owns dogs or cares about dog's needs to be aware of, because let's face it, the Neilson's were trying to give the dog a second chance and who among us wouldn't do that. I personally am not a cat person, deathly allergic, asthmatic and I have two. One is a rehabilitation case. Has drawn blood on dh and I, but a friend in cat rescue advised me she was unadoptable and a HS would put her down, so now I can pet her head for a minute, but it's been 8 long months.

All we're trying to do here is call attention to the treatment Sultan is receiving at the hands of an organization supposed to protect him and educate others, so that situations like this don't occur.

I will go slightly off-topic here and say, Di goes to that HS as often as she can, heart of gold. She walks dogs for them, she does great honest evals for the Toronto Board on German Shepherds in their care and every visit she hopes to steal a few minutes with Sultan. But she's not allowed.

So while it's easier to dismiss Sultan over the alleged attack, we really have to speak for those who can't. We need to educate and we need to ensure organizations who exist to help creatures do just that. A dog deserves a second chance and he should be given that.