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AKC & PETLAND Contract -- public outcry

TooDogCrazy
September 17th, 2006, 03:38 PM
:fingerscr I found this posting on Craigslist and thought I'd share with everyone here .... these are valid points and one that should be communicated to the AKC by everyone !!! Do your part and CONTACT THE AKC -- bombard them with these very good points! :dog: :grouphug:



If you contact the AKC, please make the following arguments:

The public's concern:

1) Petland will not refuse to do a purchase regardless of the person. A good breeder would. A good breeder will take a pup back at any time and age, a good rescue insists on the same and will alter a dog before placement meaning the dog cannot reproduce at all. Petland will not. Good breeders support rescue and do all they can to keep their dogs out. Petland does not.

2) It gives more fuel to those wishing to enact hard breeding laws to evenutally end all breeding regardless of the reasons. However, most laws do not affect HVBs and therefore if laws pass, HVBs will be the only breeders in that region. AKC endorsing pet stores and working with them gives more to sway lawmakers with. No breeding also means fewer service dogs.

3) Who is to make Petland employees do this? Is this to be done before or after sale? Will there be an AKC rep at every store? Spot checks? Etc? Will employees be encourage to talk a buyer out of the sale and explain why a breed may not be suited for them? Will the AKC insist they take the same care a rescue or better breeder will?

4) To the average dog shopper,seeing AKC actually working with stores it looks like an endorsement? It can actually increase the chance that the buyer will NOT seek a good breeder or rescue. Why wait when the AKC endorses this store and I can get immediate satisfaction?

AKC Customer Care
5580 Centerview Drive, Raleigh, NC 27606
919-233-9767


Public Education:
phone 919-816-3712
fax 919-816-4275

AKC Headquarters
260 Madison Ave, New York, NY 10016
212-696-8200

Communications
212-696-8343

dogmelissa
September 17th, 2006, 07:14 PM
While I'll be the first one to support a Petland-boycott (I've personally been doing it for years, and moreso since my dog was originally a Petland puppy), can you please post a link to the craigslist thing to which you're referring? Or is this a copy of it?
I don't understand what the AKC has to do with Petland at all.

Thanks,
Melissa

mafiaprincess
September 17th, 2006, 08:37 PM
This thread from the other day talks about it:
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=30684

the gang
September 17th, 2006, 09:29 PM
it makes me sick, i addopted a min pin 8 yrs ago jan, the guy wanted $ 700.00 for my little guy no papers we were in love, so we got him !!!did not know what i know now!!! this poor little one has been to hell and back !!pet store sucks brenda and the gang.

LM1313
September 18th, 2006, 01:11 AM
This post (not by me) is permitted to be crossposted, written by someone who was there.

Hi Everyone;

I wanted to let you all know what took place today at the Delegates
Meeting, as it will be burning the wiires shortly. After the lunch break
and a presentation by staff ember Robin Stansell on declining
registeration, Dennis Sprung, President anounced that the Board had
signed a contract with Petland Discount Pet Stores to register the AKC
puppies they sell on line when the buyer purchases the puppy.

Well, let me tell you that the Delegate Body went in an uproar. Lead by
Pat Laurins and followed by Judy De Hardt, Diane Albers and a several
others. Emotions where very high and Howard Flaberg made a motion
(called something else, because it deals with the Board) to have the
Board rescind this contract with Petland. Dennis tried to by pass that
the Delegates wanted a vote on this right then and now. I vote was taken
and more than 2/3 of the Delegates voted in favor of the Board
rescinding this contract.

More emotional delegates addressed the Board on this issue and I do not
believe the Board was ready for the delegates to stand up this way.

Even as David Merriman tried to lawyer double talk everyone, no one was
moved. Ron Menacker spoke on how he is opposed to selling puppies this
way (Yeah, right) but also tried to but a twist on what the Delegates
had conveyed, the Delegates are not againist dogs that are eligible to
be registered with AKC from being registered, but we do not want AKC to
endorse a volume breeder and a pet store chain.

Mr. Menacker stated the "if we do not want the AKC to register puppies
purchased at pet shops, that the Board can raise registation fees and
event charges to compensate the 10M that is lost by AKC for recording
dog event records".

Because many Delegates had left the meeting due to the late hour and
planes that needed to be taken home, a Delegate asked for the meeting to
adjour at this point.

I spoke to Pat Laurins and I am going to work with her and others to get
people elected to the Board that are not afraid to stand up to those on
the Board who are really and truly as Pat said "Prostitue our purebreed
dogs". Pat herself feels that she is better out on the floor to speak
her mind and to reprimand the Board in public when necessary. Their
where delegates who where in tears over what the Board had done and it
is diffently time for a big chance on the Board.

The vote on the Petland Contract was 12 to1 . I believe the only Board
member who voted opposed was Patti Haines.

dogmelissa
September 19th, 2006, 02:57 PM
I guess I don't really understand the situation. How can the Board vote to approve something if they hadn't discussed it? Maybe I don't understand how the AKC is set up.
Regardless, this is not cool. If Petland is selling purebred dogs from dogs who are registered in AKC, then technically it wouldn't matter whether the AKC allowed them to register, because the new family could do it themselves. However, I've never seen or heard of a purebred dog being sold at Petland. My own dog is a mutt, sold from Petland (not to me!) for $1100. Even if his parents had been AKC-registered, as a cross, he wouldn't have been eligible, no matter where he'd been sold from.
That being said, if Petland *is* selling purebred dogs in some places, then the breeders should actually have their AKC registration revoked, IMO. They're obviously not ethical breeders if they're selling their dogs in a petstore--Petland isn't the only one! I used to work at Pisces Pet Emporium here in Calgary. They have--believe it or not--marmosets on display. There's 3 of them in a maybe 7' by 7' concrete enclosure with a fake tree for them to climb in. They sleep in a plastic vari kennel (no blanket!) and the only time they get attention is when their cage is being cleaned and they're being fed. Did I mention the 20 or so other monkeys kept in a "closet" in the back? Ya. Same store sells "border collie type" dogs (they looked purebred to me, but it's against their policies to sell purebred dogs) for $600 a crack, and all that includes is a free bag of food and a supposed vet check (I never saw or heard of an animal going for a vet check). They're no better than Petland, but don't get the uproar that Petland does, probably only because they're not a big chain.
If AKC wants to raise their registration fees, they should. Make it something that a breeder has to actually *earn* before the pups can be registered. I 100% think that the AKC should offer agility trials for dogs who can't be registered--because they've been sterilized, are a mutt, or just because the parents weren't registered. Then they can charge people like me who have an unregisterable dog fees for running in an agilty trial, and make more money that way. They do *not* need to register mutts that are sold at Petland! :mad: Unless they want to change all of their policies on what they register, and then they can register my dog, too.

Ok, rant done. Did I mention that I hate Petland? :p
Melissa

LM1313
September 19th, 2006, 05:56 PM
I 100% think that the AKC should offer agility trials for dogs who can't be registered--because they've been sterilized, are a mutt, or just because the parents weren't registered. Then they can charge people like me who have an unregisterable dog fees for running in an agilty trial, and make more money that way.

I agree wholeheartedly! Ebony would have been sooo perfect as an agility dog, but there are mainly AKC events around here and they're only open to purebreds. :(

I'm confused about the relation of the "delegates" to the "board" too, Melissa. I think maybe the delegates are . . . delegates for each breed of dog or something? Or area of the country, maybe?

I've been reading through some of the minutes of other months and I must say I'm rather shocked . . . They focus on money so much. Licensing deals . . . dog show fees . . . I know they need money to organize events and pay their staff, but the extent of it made me very uncomfortable.

I saw a post from the same delegate (I think they're a delegate) who posted the thing above . . . I'll copy and paste it here if I can find it again.

mafiaprincess
September 19th, 2006, 06:26 PM
This was posted on another forum I visit..
Email addy for comments or complaints is at the bottom

FACT SHEET

At the September meeting of the AKC Delegates, the AKC announced a
program in which Petland may facilitate the individual AKC registration
process for eligible dogs sold in their stores. Today, many of these
AKC-registrable dogs are registered with other registries or not at all.
Several questions emerged following that announcement. We provide the
following details to reduce misunderstandings about the program.

What kind of agreement does the AKC have with Petland?

Following are some of the basic facts about this plan:



a.. Only AKC-registrable dogs are eligible for this program. The
program does not provide registration to dogs not otherwise eligible for
registration. We are doing this in large part to assure that
AKC-registrable puppies already in these stores are registered with AKC.



a.. AKC will educate Petland staff about the value and importance of
AKC registration. AKC will highlight the opportunity for participation
in appropriate AKC events and the importance of programs like AKC
Canine Good Citizen to promote responsible dog ownership.



a.. Petland will encourage new puppy owners to register with the AKC.
Petland will help the customer complete the AKC registration form
online, similar to the current online registration process. The customer
will pay the entire AKC registration fee in the store. Petland may charge
the customer a small processing fee to cover their cost. Registering in
the store increases the likelihood that the puppy owner will register
their new puppy with the AKC. Research has shown that if dog owners
don't register their dog soon after acquiring it, they are less likely to
do so in the future.



a.. This program allows the AKC inspections team to continue its
active presence in the commercial sector. If puppies sold in retail pet
stores are not AKC registrable, AKC loses the ability to inspect and
influence the care and conditions in pet stores and the breeding kennels
that supply the pet stores.



a.. AKC and Petland are not engaged in an endorsement, partnership,
affiliation or joint venture. A written agreement between AKC and
Petland exists, in large part, to protect the AKC and ensure that all
applicable AKC Registration Rules and Procedures are followed.



a.. AKC does not endorse any breeder or seller of dogs. Our central
message about how to buy a puppy -- to thoroughly research the breed and
the breeder and to consult AKC resources, starting with the parent club
-- has not and will not change.



a.. This program has not changed AKC's registration policies. The
AKC has always registered dogs sold through pet retailers as long as the
pet store and breeder are in compliance with our standards for accurate
record keeping and meet the AKC's care and conditions requirements.
Read our Compliance fact sheet at:
http://www.akc.org/press_center/facts_stats.cfm?page=6. The program
with Petland offers AKC an opportunity to communicate the benefits of
registration and involve new puppy owners in the world of AKC but does not
imply an endorsement any more than AKC papers have in the past. It will
ensure that AKC inspectors and investigators continue to have access to
all kennels breeding AKC puppies. This will continue enforcement of our
care and conditions policies and compliance with record-keeping.



Why is AKC encouraging the registration of all registrable dogs?

a.. Today, many AKC-registrable dogs sold by pet retailers are not
registered with the AKC by their owner. Less than 50 percent of
AKC-registrable dogs are registered with the AKC. The AKC strategic plan
targets this problem in all customer groups, including pet stores. When these
new owners do not register, AKC and our clubs lose the ability to
encourage them to become part of the fancy or to educate them about
responsible dog ownership. We feel we can best promote our values and bring
people into the world of AKC events by reaching out to new dog owners no
matter where they choose to purchase their dog.



a.. AKC's ability to influence legislation and public opinion is
directly linked to the number of dog owners we represent. Ultimately,
AKC's ability to take a leadership stand on any issue is closely tied to
the size of our constituency (the number of people with AKC registered
dogs).



a.. AKC can best serve the interests of dogs and their owners by
maintaining stringent standards and promoting the benefits of AKC
registration. With more than 20 different for-profit businesses acting as canine
"registries" in the U.S., it is important that the AKC distinguish
itself as the genuine purebred registry. Many of these for-profit
businesses will "register" dogs with little or no proof of lineage and none have
any inspections or compliance standards. These businesses actively and
aggressively work to convert AKC registrations into applications for
their listing services. The fact that AKC can inspect kennels and pet
shops and take action against them whenever necessary protects the welfare
of all AKC puppies.



a.. AKC's ability to offer important programs is directly linked to
our annual registrations. In addition to subsidizing AKC events,
registration fees provide support for a range of programs and services
including the AKC Canine Health Foundation and the AKC Museum of the Dog.
Registration income also provides an important source of funding for our
scholarship programs, veterinary outreach, our compliance department,
combating unfair canine legislation, providing disaster relief and much
more.



What else is being done to promote AKC Registration?

We are less than a year into a five year strategic plan that has
already introduced a suite of benefits and resources for the fancy including
a breeder newsletter, full litter registration option, litter coupons,
online accounts and enhancements to online dog registration. In
addition, AKC has introduced new registration benefits like dog.com
e-certificates for both breeders and individual registrants and complimentary
first office visits at participating veterinarians. As we continue
implementing the plan, additional programs for breeders and new dog owners
will be introduced. We have made a significant investment in a
diversified advertising campaign that communicates our mission and promotes the
value of AKC registration and the integrity of our Registry. Our
message embodied in our advertising tagline "We're more than champion dogs.
We're the dog's champion" has reached almost 200 million people in
print and broadcast media during the past year.



How will this impact rescue?

Dogs will be sold in pet stores whether or not AKC registers them.
However the AKC feels that by bringing more registrants into the AKC fold
we have the opportunity to educate them and involve them in programs
that promote responsible dog ownership.



What prompted this agreement?

The AKC has undertaken a strategic plan to reverse the significant
decline in registrations that has occurred during the last decade. The plan
includes a number of separate initiatives. Together these initiatives
are designed to regain market share, while maintaining a registry of
unequaled integrity and size. The approach outlined in the plan is to
increase registrations by addressing the needs of all customer groups -
fanciers, breeders, pet owners and the commercial channel. This focus
stems from a belief that purebred dogs are best served by the AKC, and that
breeding programs are improved with our involvement. This inclusive
approach helps position AKC as the voice for all dogs and all dog owners.



What are the next steps?

As a result of the questions raised both during and after the September
Delegates Meeting the Staff will continue reviewing and communicating
with our core constituency. A meeting will be held prior to the October
Board Meeting which will include a number of Delegates and fanciers to
discuss this initiative. The AKC Board of Directors will discuss this
topic during the October Board Meeting. The program is under review by
staff and management. Further details will be provided when they are
available.



You may direct comments to:

a.. Email: puppyreg@akc.org
b.. Mail: AKC Operations, 5580 Centerview Drive, Raleigh, NC
27606-3390

mafiaprincess
September 19th, 2006, 06:28 PM
I also thought this was interesting.. Since it's from someone who was there..
Reposted..

This was a cross-post on the Italian Greyhound group I belong to about this subject:


"Hi Everyone;

I wanted to let you all know what took place today at the
Delegates Meeting, as it will be burning the wiires shortly.

After the lunch break and a presentation by staff member Robin
Stansell
on declining registeration, Dennis Sprung, President anounced that
the
Board had signed a contract with Petland Discount Pet Stores to
register the AKC puppies they sell on line when the buyer
purchases the puppy.

Well, let me tell you that the Delegate Body went in an uproar.
Lead by Pat Laurins and followed by Judy De Hardt, Diane Albers and
a several others. Emotions where very high and Howard Flaberg
made a motion (called something else, because it deals with the
Board) to have the Board rescind this contract with Petland.
Dennis tried to by pass that the Delegates wanted a vote on this
right then and now. I vote was taken and more than 2/3 of the
Delegates voted in favor of the Boa rd rescinding this contract.

More emotional delegates addressed the Board on this issue and I
do not believe the Board was ready for the delegates to stand up
this way.

Even as David Merriman tried to lawyer double talk everyone, no
one was moved. Ron Menacker spoke on how he is opposed to selling
puppies this way (Yeah, right) but also tried to but a twist on what
the
Delegates had conveyed, the Delegates are not againist dogs that are
eligible to be registered with AKC from being registered, but we do
not
want AKC to endorse a volume breeder and a pet store chain.

Mr. Menacker stated the "if we do not want the AKC to register
puppies purchased at pet shops, that the Board can raise
registation fees and event charges to compensate the 10M that is
lost by AKC for recording dog event records".

Because many Delegates had left the meeting die to the late hour
and planes that needed to be taken home, a Delegate ask ed for the
meeting to adjour at this point.

I spoke to Pat Laurins and I am going to work with her and others to
get
people elected to the Board that are not afraid to stand up to those
on
the Board who are really and truly as Pat said "Prostitue our
purebreed
dogs". Pat herself feels that she is better out on the floor to
speak
her mind and to reprimand the Board in public when necessary. Their
where delegates who where in tears over what the Board had done and
it
is diffently time for a big chance on the Board.

The vote on the Petland Contract was 12 to1 . I believe the only
Board member who voted opposed was Patti Haines.

I will go over more at the general meeting, but I am sure that
this is going to go out on all lists tomorrow.

Cathy"

LM1313
September 19th, 2006, 06:57 PM
YES, that's what I was looking for, mafiaprincess! :)

I'm not clear on whether this actually passed or not, seeing as how many delegates were against it.

Mr. Menacker stated the "if we do not want the AKC to register
puppies purchased at pet shops, that the Board can raise
registation fees and event charges to compensate the 10M that is
lost by AKC for recording dog event records".

This is the part that really gets me . . . It's like they're saying, "Oh YEAH? Well, if you won't play along, we'll just raise fees on everything to PUNISH you!"

Frankly, I'd much rather see them raise the registration fees and event costs than deal with a pet shop . . . and I'll bet responsible breeders feel the same way.

I'm very, very interested to see the minutes of the meeting when they're finally on the AKC's website. *waits*

mafiaprincess
September 19th, 2006, 09:03 PM
NP. I thought people would maybe like to read it. I've been waiting for something more 'concrete' to read.

I'm not entirely sure what has happened either since the delegates are against it, and the board passed it. So what happens now..

I also would rather see them up fees, and maybe take some action to help themselves. Gettign new people even into AKC events if registration is down of dogs in general.

LM1313
September 20th, 2006, 03:01 PM
Yeah, and who's to say that lower registration is bad for the breeds, right? I mean, let's say a responsible breeder sells pet quality dogs with a spay/neuter contract and limited registration, meaning if the dog DOES have puppies, the pups can't be registered. That would result in less AKC registrations than if the pet quality dog was bred, but it would be a GOOD thing! :)

LM1313
September 20th, 2006, 06:51 PM
On a kinda-related note, remember that post about the AKC considering letting (spayed/neutered) mixed breeds into their sports like agility and such? I'll bet it was because they're trying to pick up more fees from the entrants! (That didn't click with me before, I thought they were just being nice, LOL.)

That would be a MUCH better way to pick up more money, IMO. I hope they do that and renege on this whole Petland thing. :pawprint: :pawprint:

Golden Girls
September 21st, 2006, 09:10 PM
Anyone who opposes can sign this petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/akcpetshop/signatures.html

LM1313
September 22nd, 2006, 12:06 PM
Sorry for the length, but, well, it's a long letter! ;) The Golden Retriever Club responds to the AKC:

Ronald H. Menaker
Chairman
American Kennel Club

Dear Mr. Menaker:

The Membership and Board of Directors of the Golden Retriever Club of
America is stunned by the actions of the AKC with respect to the Petland
contract. Providing a stamp of approval by facilitating the registering
of the “purebred” dogs they sell is contrary to all the work of the
Parent Clubs.

The GRCA feels betrayed by AKC, an organization that has cheapened its
brand so that it no longer has any meaning. As a Parent Club we can find
no justification for this partnership.

The GRCA National Association for Rescue is very familiar with the
"quality" animals sold by Petland. We see a great many in rescue
programs throughout the country. Usually the surrendering family can't
afford the surgery needed for quality of life. What a heartache when
they notice their puppy can barely stand on its legs or realize they
have to deal with multiple medical problems. In upstate New York
Petland charges $1200 for a Golden puppy although you can get one "on
sale" for $900. Just last month, one came into rescue, born at the
Hunte Corporation in Missouri. After femoral head excision surgery and
$1200.00 the young Golden is doing well but we paid for that surgery.
Is it ethical for the AKC to expect the Parent Club rescue groups to
accept and pay for these animals simply to increase AKC revenue? Perhaps
this is a prime example of AKC passing on their dirty laundry to the
parent clubs. A $75 registration fee is a bargain in comparison.

Our Club, with over five thousand members has an extensive education
program to educate owners, breeders and potential owners regarding the
breeding and care of our beloved dogs. We have a program of nationwide
newspaper ads to draw people to our website for information. We have
been aggressive in our information campaign because we know, as a
popular breed, we are subject to charlatans and breeders interested only
in the money without the best interest of our beloved breed at heart.

Our contributions and support of the AKC with respect to AKC sponsored
activities (conformation, field, obedience, etc.) speaks for itself. We
have been major contributors and have provided leadership to the AKC-CHF
as well as to breed and performance activities with the AKC. We have
promoted a Code of Ethics and encourage responsible breeding and
ownership in every way possible.

The membership, Board of Directors and Delegate of GRCA is unanimous in
requesting that AKC rescind the contract with Petland that was developed
without the knowledge or approval of the Delegate Body.

Sincerely,

Christine Miele
President, Golden Retriever Club of America

dogmelissa
September 22nd, 2006, 04:45 PM
Sorry, I've been busy, haven't been able to respond to this issue. And apologies in advance for my wordiness... I can't seem to stop myself!

LM: Thanks for the letter, I think that they've made a very good point, and I hope that other breed groups do the same thing.

Is it really $75 to register a dog with the AKC? For a *lifetime* registration (if the status of the dog doesn't change, ie, it gets sterilized)? Pffff... that's nothing!! I bet they wouldn't hear too many complaints if it was $100 a dog or even $150! Maybe my biggest issue with AKC registration is that I don't really get what it "buys" you. If you have a registered dog, you still have to pay their "entrant" fees to agility, conformation shows, field trials, etc. You get a certificate for a vet check, oooooh (you also get one from most Humane Societies before a dog is available for adoption, and often for another one after you take them home!).
Actually... from what I can tell, it only costs $15 to register a dog (though you have to have them registered with an appropriate breed club first?). $15?? And what would Petland charge for that, $50? *smacks forehead*

Holy crap would they have a *ton* more money if they allowed mixed breed or non-registerable dogs to compete (in their own category, it's just mean to put them up against a purebred) in some of their events. $25 per dog per event (I'm guessing)... X how many non-purebred dogs are in agility across the US? The USDAA has 22,000 registered competitors. That sounds actually very low, considering the number of people that I'm sure do agility training with their dogs in the US, so there must be more than that to tap into! USDAA requires that dogs be registered before being allowed to compete, and a lifetime registration costs $18. Then each event is a seperate fee (varies) The AKC itself says this: "Indications are that nearly 2,000 trials will be held in 2006, with a projection of entries reaching the 700,000 mark" and those are just the purebreds! If we signed up mixed breed dogs to be eligible to compete at $18 each, even if there's only that 22,000 that'd be $396,000. Now if each of those dogs was charged $25 a crack for each of those 700,000 entires, that's $1,750,000! How can that even begin to compare to the revenue they *might* get from registering purebreds from petstores? I really really doubt there'd be 700,000 purebred, AKC-eligible dogs sold in Petland stores *every single year*. Wouldn't it be better to allow mixed breed (or otherwise non-eligible) dogs to register to compete in agility, field trials, herding, lure coursing, rally, tracking, etc, at $15 for each type of activity, and then get the revenue from that, rather than trying to track down the fewer number of eligible purebred dogs to register in AKC?

*sigh*

I 100% agree that lower registration is not necessarily a bad thing. Well, it's bad for AKC, but it shows that there are 2 factors at work; more dogs being bred that aren't eligible for registration (mixed breeds or "designer" breeds), and more dogs being rescued. If society is changing that there's less value placed on having a purebred dog, then the AKC needs to adapt and figure out how to survive while relying on fewer pure-bred registrations. I'm not suggesting they change their regulations for the dogs they *do* register, but maybe they need to change their primary source of income. Work with people who have mixed-breed or non-eligible dogs (especially those who have purebred but sterilized dogs!), and find a way to get them excited about supporting the AKC. Agility, field trials, things where dogs are running around doing things they love to do, are for sure going to draw a bigger crowd than than dogs walking up and down a "runway" being models. It's simply more exciting.

I also found that the September Minutes are up from the Delegate's meeting: http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/delegates_meeting/sept06.pdf (this discusses the Petland issue)

And in there, they talk about having a surplus of $5.7 million! What are they doing worrying about gaining more income when they have almost $6 *surplus*? They're losing money on events--so raise the entry fees! Urgh, are they dumb? They lost $10 million on events. Event entries at the time of the meeting was 1.8 million. How much are they spending on events if 1.8 million entries can't produce $10 million? Ok... gone through financial statements now. They spent $17,264,000 on events, performance and judging. They earned $5,685,000 in the same category. So, yeah, "lost" $10 million (actually closer to 12). So if they double their entry fees (what are they now?) they'd double their income. If they reduce the amount they spend on things; renting space, advertising, cut losses (providing things), get sponsorship from pet food companies, pet product companies, etc... and allow mixed-breed dogs to compete as well, which would more than double their entries, how would they lose money?
One more thing of note: so what if one area loses money? Overall the whole organization's assets increased $11 million; so why are they really worrying?

Ok, I'll get off my rant-horse now. Maybe I'm just ticked off because my dog is a mutt and can't be registered in any kennel club, let alone compete in some of the events that they offer, but on the other side of it, do I really care? I don't see the benefit of paying for an AKC registration, even if you have a purebred dog, unless you're actually going to be doing conformation or field trialling in a breed-specific activity (herding, hunting, racing, etc). Especially when the activities that dogs used to do don't seem to be as important anymore. Agriculture is decreasing, hunting (with dogs) is decreasing because there's not as much land for the hunted animals to live on anymore, Dog sledding is a hobby not a way of life, racing is for entertainment.... more people have pets who are more likely to do agility, flyball or chase squirrels than those who have dogs who do what they were originally bred for. So does it really matter to me that my non-AKC-eligible dog can't do agility with the purebreds? In the big scheme of things, no. But I guess it still bothers me that an organization who claims to "protect the health and well-being of all dogs" and who "cherish dogs as companions" hasn't been able to evolve from the stuffy-shirt, "my dog is better than yours" mentality of the dog-show world. They're no better than model's agents. Expecting purebred specimens and not allowing any flaws. Heaven forbid my dog might have a spot in the wrong place-it makes him a lesser being in their eyes, and he's not worthy of admittance into their elite little club. Maybe that's just what frustrates me; their elitist attitude. Even if you have a purebred dog with a "flaw" doesn't mean that it's a lesser dog. They can still give love, do things like agility, field trials, and most importantly, curl up on the couch on a cold winter's night. So what if they have a few too many spots, or a curly tail instead of a straight one?
:p (Sorry to anyone who is a purebred proponent)

That's all... sorry for the length!!

Melissa

MyBirdIsEvil
September 22nd, 2006, 05:35 PM
Heaven forbid my dog might have a spot in the wrong place-it makes him a lesser being in their eyes, and he's not worthy of admittance into their elite little club

While I do agree that the AKC does have an elitist attitude in several ways, they do have to enforce the breed standards, and I would say that they too loosely enforce them, not the other way around. There's also a few breeds where parts of the standard just make no sense.
If there's no one there to say "Hey that dog doesn't fit breed standard", then anyone could breed any dog together and call it a breed. You'd have dogs of the same breed coming out looking completely different, and then what would be the point?
Also, AKC doesn't keep a purebred dog from competing in agility and stuff because it doesn't meet breed standard (as far as I know).
AKC is a purebred registry and though I'd like them to open up competitions to mutts, I'm not going to complain if they don't.

LM1313
September 23rd, 2006, 01:42 AM
Purebred dogs who don't meet show standards can do obedience, agility, etc, as long as they are AKC registered. They can also be spayed/neutered, unlike conformation dogs.

BUT, as a mutt owner, it was such a blow discovering my girl couldn't compete in agility trials. She would have kicked tail! :D I would definitely have paid to have her in a "special mutt registry" thing if it meant I could take part in the AKC dog sport events!

Oh, poor babies, only a SIX MILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS!! :eek:

mafiaprincess
September 23rd, 2006, 09:59 AM
LM, Why not just go with another agility organization?
The north american dog agility council allows mixed breeds and purebreds and is american and canadian http://www.nadac.com/
I'd say AAC but that's Canadian..

Those would be the two biggies I'm aware of that are very pro any dog.. You aren't just limited to the AKC.

mona_b
September 23rd, 2006, 10:24 AM
I mean, let's say a responsible breeder sells pet quality dogs with a spay/neuter contract and limited registration, meaning if the dog DOES have puppies, the pups can't be registered. That would result in less AKC registrations than if the pet quality dog was bred, but it would be a GOOD thing! :)

Actually,that's how it goes with the CKC.....If you are on a non-breeding contract and your dog does have pups,the CKC will not register them.


Purebred dogs who don't meet show standards can do obedience, agility, etc, as long as they are AKC registered. They can also be spayed/neutered, unlike conformation dogs.


Another difference with the CKC.Your Purebred dog doesn't have to be registered to compete in Obedience,agility or flyball.And many who compete are actually "mutts"........:D

Also,with the AKC registration,it's the new owner who pays and fills out the registration papers,with the CKC,it's the breeder who w registers and pays for it,not the new owner.I never had to fill out any papers or pay for the registration fees.

As for the pets stores here that I know about(Ontario)the purebred pups they sell are not registered.First off,they don't want you to know where the pups come from.And may of the parents are not registered to begin with.Even if one parent is registered,pups can't be registered.One of the pet stores by me claim they come from "hybred" breeders.:rolleyes:

And trust me,I have had my share of lectures in that pet store...:D

LM1313
September 23rd, 2006, 10:39 AM
LM, Why not just go with another agility organization?
The north american dog agility council allows mixed breeds and purebreds and is american and canadian http://www.nadac.com/
I'd say AAC but that's Canadian..
.

At the time I was about thirteen or fourteen and didn't know there was more than one place to go for agility trials. I'd just taken a bunch of agility books out of the library and one of them was specifically geared towards AKC events, so I thought, "Oh no, I can't do agility!" I'd already started training her to go over homemade "jumps" (a broomstick laid across progressively higher objects ;) ) and I really was very, very hurt that my dog was excluded. I wish I'd kept looking and discovered the other agility organizations.

mafiaprincess
September 23rd, 2006, 05:30 PM
You should start again now LM. Come on it's fun. :thumbs up

LM1313
September 24th, 2006, 12:46 AM
LOL! As soon as I get a dog . . . I'm so excited by the thought! Hmmm, maybe I should practice with the cats. Well, no . . . maybe not. :p

Must get house, must get house. As soon as I get a house, I can get a dog. :D

Ahhh, poor Ebony, though. I wish she'd had her chance. :rip: Well, I'm sure she's clearing jumps up there at the Rainbow Bridge. :pawprint:

Esaunders
September 25th, 2006, 01:27 PM
But hadn't you heard? There is now cat agility as well.

Saw that for the first time this spring, and nearly laughed my butt off.

LM1313
September 28th, 2006, 06:58 PM
:thumbs up A new message from the AKC:

At the September Delegates Meeting AKC reported that we had reached an
agreement with Petland in order to facilitate the registration of dogs that
are already AKC registrable.
Precedence: bulk

AKC's Board of Directors and management believed that this agreement would
have helped to further the mission of the AKC. Promoting responsible dog
ownership to new puppy owners, implementing our care and conditions
policies, and exposing more dog owners to AKC educational programs and
services would have had even greater reach.

In the past few weeks we have received many comments about this agreement,
both positive and negative. We have listened to the concerns and because
this issue has become so divisive, we believe it is in the best interest of
our sport and the American Kennel Club not to go forward with this
initiative.

Ron Menaker, Chairman of the Board
Dennis B. Sprung, President and CEO