September 11th, 2006, 10:14 PM
I'm sorry for starting another thread, but I can't change the title on the pet pantry one, so here we go again!
My first choice for dog food if at all possible is to buy through a company that delivers. I have trouble carrying the huge heavy bags from the store due to back problems. I can of course also order online, but then I end up accumulating a huge pile of boxes.... So for convenience, I prefer local companies that deliver to my door. My previous one seems to have gone out of business, so I've been searching online tonight and finally found another company that will deliver. The deliver the food in a bin the first time and then will set up auto-delivery where I just put the bin outside and they dump the new food into the bin. I keep the bin in a closet just inside my front door, so it's a lot easier for my back since I just have to drag it back into the closet then and I am not stuck with packaging mess then either.
Anyway, sorry for rambling, just trying to explain! :)
Here is the link:
They offer Canidae, Eagle Pack, Nutrisource, or Zinpro. I am not familiar with any of these, although I have seen some positive comments about Canidae on the forum. Can someone give me advice if any of these brands are any good?
This would be my first choice, but if none of these are any good, I have found local pet stores that carry Merricks, Wellness, or Solid Gold. I can't seem to find Timberwolf in my area. I'd have to buy them in smaller bags and make more frequent trips, so it's not nearly as convenient, but I will do this if the other brands cannot compare.
I did find this other local delivery company as well, but they don't list their ingredients. I emailed them for a list:
Sorry for the kind of repeat question, but I thought it better to ask separately than continue under the pet pantry thread. So I'd appreciate any advice on the first link! :)
September 11th, 2006, 10:35 PM
Well if I had smaller dogs or just one dog I would choose Canidae. I had my dogs on this for awhile and the only reason I switched to something more affordable as I was going through a 40lb bag in 2 weeks at $68 a bag. Nice shiner coats, less shedding, little poops, I loved it:thumbs up
September 11th, 2006, 11:50 PM
Any allergies? If not, I'd say either the Canidae or Solid Gold Wolf King. The Merrick dry ones are ok too.
I'd never heard of Zinpro, so I looked it up... It looks like it's made for dogs with zinc deficiencies. :shrug: The ingredients aren't super...
Ingredients: Menhadden Fish Meal, Brown Rice, Oat Meal, Ground Barley, Herring Meal, Oat Flour, Rice Flour, Canola Oil (preserved with Vit E and Vit C), Evening Primrose Meal, Flaxseed, Brewer's Yeast, Borage Oil, Potassiu7m Chloride, Zinc Methianine, Copper Lysine, Manganese Methionine, Choline Chloride, Dicalcium Phosophate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Riboflavin, Calcium Iodate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodim Selenite, Cobalt Glutonate, Vitamin B12, Menadione Pretty grainy, IMO... and Menhaden isn't the best if you don't know what it's preserved with.
Nutrisource has a few nasty unspecified meats in it... :yuck:
Chicken, chicken meal, brown rice, brewers rice, barley, oatmeal, whole grain ground wheat, poultry fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols (a source of vitamin E) and citric acid), fish meal (a source of fish oil), beet pulp, digest of poultry, flax seeds, dried egg product, brewers yeast, spray dried poultry liver digest, potassium chloride, salt, chelated minerals (iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate, magnesium proteinate), yeast culture (saccharomyces cerevisiae, enterococcus faecium, lactobacillus acidophilus, aspergillus niger, trichoderma longibrachiatum, bacillus subtillis), choline chloride, vitamins (vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, pantothenic acid, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), glucosamine hydrochloride, ascorbic acid (vitamin C), chondroitin sulfate, yucca schidigera extract, sodium selenite, rosemary extract.
I'm not a fan of Eagle Pack. IMO, they cut corners that shouldn't be cut in an expensive holistic food (like adding beet pulp and corn to most of their formulas).:shrug:
September 12th, 2006, 12:47 AM
Thank you both so much! This is all new to me, so it's almost overwhelming! Can't believe there is so much to know about dog food!
Sorry, forgot to mention that Petey has no known food allergies! And he's not a picky eater either, he will eat ANYTHING. :)
From your comments, I'm leaning towards the Canidae since it was an option from the delivery company, which I was hoping to be able to use. I'm still waiting for an ingredient list from that other company, but sounds like the canidae is probably our best way to go for convenience and quality! Good to know about the zinpro, nutrisource, and Eagle pack. I don't really know what to look for, so I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help!
September 12th, 2006, 11:11 AM
I would definitely pick the Canidae. I wanted to switch my boys to it but can't get it were I live.
September 12th, 2006, 11:17 AM
I've been using Canidae for more than a year and have been very happy with it for my 2. It's great and a relatively reasonable price too.
September 12th, 2006, 04:58 PM
I haven't heard back from the other company yet, so I'll just go with the other one. Canidae it is! :) Thanks everyone for all your help!!!!
September 13th, 2006, 09:45 AM
Myself I would pick Canidae over WolfKing for a couple of reasons
you are getting almost 25% more food be bag Canidae is a 40lb bag wolfking is 33 lb so more economical, Canidae ingredient list guarantees that you are feeding mostly meat, Wolf King simply has too large a number of different grains in their ingredient list to be assured that you are getting mostly meat, in fact you could actually be getting very little depending on what numbers you use
Bison | Salmon Meal | Brown Rice | Millet | Cracked Pearled Barley | Oatmeal | Rice Bran | Canola Oil | Flaxseed Oil | Garlic | Amaranth | Blueberries | Yucca Schidigera Extract | Carotene | Choline Chloride | Vitamin E Supplement | Iron Proteinate | Zinc Proteinate | Copper Proteinate | Manganese Proteinate | Potassium Iodide | Thiamine Mononitrate | Ascorbic Acid | Vitamin A Supplement | Biotin | Calcium Panthothenate | Selenomethionine | Pyridoxine Hydrochloride | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Riboflavin | Vitamin D Supplement | Folic Acid |
The bison is in its wet state meaning it is 75% less once the water is remove during processing whereas salmon "Meal" is dry state measure where there is only about 10% moisture loss with processing
So 20 lbs of bison will actually amount to 5 lbs 10 lbs of salmon meal would be 9 lbs
So in a 33lb bag you have a total of 14 lbs meat it is then followed by 5 different grains if rice is 6 lbs , millet 4.5, barley 4 lbs, oatmeal 2.5 and rice brans 1.9 you would then have 14 lbs meatvs 18.9 lbs grain and .10 lbs vitamins and minerals so you would be quite grain heavy because of so many grains, because the actual percents are not give the the actual meat can even be less
IT could still read correctly in order of ingredient weight and contain even far less meat then above, if the bison started off at 10 lbs(2.5 lbs aftere water is removed), salmon meal 7lb( 6.5 after water is rmoved) (total meat dried 9 lbs) rice 6.9 lbs, millet 5, barley 5, oatmeal 4 and ricebran 3 and .10 vitamins and minerals in this version 9 lbs of processed meat vs 23.9 lb of grain, which mean wolfking could be potentially almost 2/3rds grain because they are using so many different grains, the fact that it is only 22% protein and others have commented on the light colour of wolf king kibble makes it likely that grain content is on the high side
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal , Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal , Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal , Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken , Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.
With Canidae you have 5 meats with 4 of them being "meals" and only 2 grains no matter how you play with the numbers the meat lbs after processing will end up being more the the number of pounds of grain, so you are guaranteed to have more meat than grain
The more times grains is listed in an ingredient list the higher likelihood you are feeding mostly grains/carbs
When I was looking for a grain free food I used the same principal
at the time I had a choice between EVO or Natural Balance Duck and Potato
Turkey, Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes
, Herring Meal, Chicken Fat, Natural Flavors, Egg, Garlic, Apples, Carrots, Tomatoes, Cottage Cheese, Alfalfa Sprouts, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract, Vitamins/Minerals, Viable Naturally Occurring Microorganisms
NB Duck and Potato
, Duck, Duck Meal, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Potato Fiber , DL-methionine, L-Lysine, Sodium Chloride, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed Oil, Rosemary Extract, Natural Flavor, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin K1 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid.
It is not hard to see which is going to contain mostly meat
September 13th, 2006, 08:48 PM
So 20 lbs of bison will actually amount to 5 lbs 10 lbs of salmon meal would be 9 lbs
So in a 33lb bag you have a total of 14 lbs meat it is then followed by 5 different grains if rice is 6 lbs , millet 4.5, barley 4 lbs, oatmeal 2.5 and rice brans 1.9 you would then have 14 lbs meatvs 18.9 lbs grain and .10 lbs vitamins and minerals so you would be quite grain heavy because of so many grains, because the actual percents are not give the the actual meat can even be lessI'm sorry, but where do you get these numbers?
WK is a bit grainier, but for doggies with meat sensitivities, it's great, IMO. Canidae is good, but with so many different meats, sensitive doggies (like mine) might have trouble.
September 13th, 2006, 08:52 PM
i agree WK is good for dogs with meat-specific allergies but my goodness... it is very grainy... and a LOT of allergies are grain-based. the more grains, the more chances for a food allergy :shrug:
September 13th, 2006, 08:57 PM
Yeah, but try finding a poultry-less food. :eek: WK is the most accessible.
September 13th, 2006, 08:59 PM
you mean a non fish-based dry food, right? well, there are always lamb-based ones... also beef... venison... :rolleyes: lots of holistic choices on the market today that don't contain chicken. :shrug:
September 13th, 2006, 09:00 PM
There aren't actually too many beef or venison ones out there and finding a good quality lamb food is hard too.
September 13th, 2006, 09:11 PM
hmmm maybe we could start a list of good ones? to help folks who are looking for alternate choices to chicken-based ones? c'mon prin you're good at this... help me! :dog:
Nature's Variety offers a good Beef Meal & Barley recipe, as well as Lamb Meal & Oatmeal, and New Zealand Venison Meal & Millet... tried all three on Dakotah, he loved them all.
Wellness offers Super5Mix Lamb, and their Simple Food Solutions offer a duck kibble, as well as a Venison alternative.
Timberwolf Organics offers Elk, Bison, Venison formulas... (if you're lucky to find them, LOL)
Eagle Pack offers a good Lamb kibble, as well as Duck one.
California Natural has a good Lamb Meal & Rice formula...
Oh! there are many choices available, if one tries hard enough :thumbs up
September 13th, 2006, 09:27 PM
I guess I have to agree with TD, as there has been alot of different ones that are good, come on the market since Solid Gold. But then, if your doggies are doing good on what they're eating, why change? :shrug:
September 13th, 2006, 09:28 PM
Nature's Variety offers a good Beef Meal & Barley recipe, as well as Lamb Meal & Oatmeal, and New Zealand Venison Meal & Millet...
Nope... The beef one has chicken fat, flavor and liver. The Venison one has chicken liver. The salmon one has even more- it's got "Freeze Dried Chicken, Freeze Dried Turkey, Freeze Dried Turkey Liver, Freeze Dried Turkey Hearts, Ground Chicken Bone," too.
The Lamb has menhaden, so we have to find out what they use as a preservative for it.
The Wellness Lamb is good, in January, when they remove the menadione. But it's grainier then WK. Same with their fishy formula. Their simple solutions have even more grains. :shrug:
Timberwolf Organics is GREAT, but in eastern Canada, impossible to get (unless you want to buy 16 bags).
Eagle pack- most of their formulas have at least brewer's yeast, beet pulp and egg product. Their Lamb and rice one has chicken fat, too (along with the usuals I mentioned already). Duck is part of poultry (it makes Boo puke just as much as chicken or turkey :shrug: ) but the eagle pack duck has chicken fat too.
California Natural's Lamb and rice looks ok but being that there are only 3 ingredients before the fat, if you believe the study, this might cause bloat. California Natural Herring & Sweet Potato Adult is also ok, depending on what the natural flavors come from.
Evo red meat dry would be ok, also depending on what they mean by "natural flavor".
Then there are the DVP Natural Balance ones (venison or fish, but I haven't seen them in person yet.:o)
So see, no, there aren't many.:o
September 13th, 2006, 09:31 PM
good analysis! maybe make a sticky?... in a condensed formula?... sometimes a dog is not allergic to chicken per se, but the parent wants to feed something that is lamb-based, or venison-based, etc?
wonder when eastern canada will wake up! :frustrated:
Edited to add:
this is why feeding raw makes sooo much sense for sensitive dogs. you know exactly what you are feeding, and can control absolutely everything... i saw ground bison at the supermarket tonight and though of you, Prin! LOL but didn't get any... my dogs are too big to make it financially responsible. but as a treat, yeah i'd do it... so instead i bought a big pack of ground beef for the big boy and some chicken legs on sale... i can afford *that*! ha ha
September 13th, 2006, 09:33 PM
It's not about being allergic to chicken, but when you are doing an elimination diet and you have to eliminate everything the dog has already eaten, switching to a food with chicken fat isn't eliminating chicken completely.
Oh, and it's not us who have to wake up- it's TO.
September 13th, 2006, 09:37 PM
:sorry: :offtopic: a bit
Do you have any idea how hard it is to find WK here!!!!!:yell:
I finally found some but while chit chatting with the lady who owns the place, she said that it is next to impossible for them to get some foods, such as barking at the moon.
Wonder why? Not high enough demand??? Apparently where I baught all the WK she said there are 3 ( count em 3 ) people not including me who buy that food.
September 13th, 2006, 09:41 PM
If you have trouble finding one product from a company, it's likely they just stopped ordering from the company completely. :shrug: Like the store I go to stopped ordering Canidae because the distributer changed and the new one wasn't accommodating. So no products at all from canidae. :shrug: But they have almost everything from solid gold (no barking at the moon though).
It's tough, but the more people we convince to switch, the higher demand will be and the more pressure there will be to provide the foods.:shrug:
September 13th, 2006, 11:52 PM
Well, you've converted me, LOL! :D I've learned so much from you guys, thank you all so much! I think it's like Prin said, it's just a matter of awareness. Until recently, I had no idea! I still wish I could access that pet pantry site to see their ingredient list. I'm not feeding it to Petey anymore, but I'm just really curious now that I've been educated a bit on what to look for. :)
Ah well, at least I know from now going forward, Petey will be getting good food! So I'll be spreading the word as well! :)
September 14th, 2006, 06:04 AM
I found in trying to find food, it was simply that a store didn't care to order what I wanted.. Short of the timberwolf issue..
3 Pet valus locally.. I used to buy wellness there till the formula changed.. settled on it because it was about the only better food they carried..
Turns out the one furthest away from me carried SG hund n flocken by choice.. Because the owner fed it to her dog or something like that.. But that was all they were ordering..
Now due to business walking away they could apparently order me wolf king..
But I started buying my food at global pet food like 6 months ago when I couldn't find wolf king anywhere. Then I started buying a small bag of barking at the moon there too, since she has phased out most of the crummier quality foods, she has the shelf room to carry pretty much every one's complete line of better stuff.
September 14th, 2006, 10:43 PM
So if WK's formula changes, I withdraw my WK recommendation.;)