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Doodle Dogs ...

September 10th, 2006, 08:06 PM
I've read many articles about the designer dogs and do agree with the basic message thats behind them and why there is such an outrage from true dog lovers .... because the public is being mislead about what they are getting, their mistaken believe that the dogs they are getting are better than the average dog found in shelters all over the country ... there just so much HYPE now that its padding the pockets of many disreputable people and of course, some of these dogs may end up as well in shelters, from people who bought them (impulsively) and found out differently once the dog started to grow up.

I'm sure there are many (ignorant) new owners who were lead to believe something that may/may not actually happen (no shedding, etc.) ... but I do think (just like with show dogs) that if a person were a smart consumer, they would do their homework and insure that if they spend more than $25 on an animal, that they'd want to see what type of background the parents had, what health testing was done; how much genetics the breeders really got involved in and the environment in which the puppy was raised, etc. To educate themselves on what they were getting into, what its really like to raise a dog, etc. No matter how much you spend, or how little, that is something that should be important to you. There are some hybrid breeders who are concerned with health and genetics (those are in the minority of course) but they can be found if you look. Because ALL dogs started as mixes and crossed with something else, I don't like having the reverse prejudice against these new mixed breeds.

As well, there are just as many dogs from "show homes" that end up in shelters because people bought the dogs for all the wrong reasons -- cuteness and naiveity. There are many, many show people who sold their dogs on open registration to many of these now deplorable backyard breeders -- they had to come from somewhere -- and its a vicious cycle. But to say that just hybrid breeders are the world's worst evil -- well, I would have to disagree with that. I know just as many show breeders who SAY they do health testing (but they don't) ... who SAY they don't sell their dogs on open registration, but they do. Who SAY they will take their dogs back if you cannot keep, but they don't really want them back either.

I don't think there is anything people can really do to stop this visous cycle, except education. Of course, not financially supporting the true backyard breeders would help "dry up the market" and I think that is beginning to happen -- in some breeds. But people are sly. Some of the best show dog homes that have impeccable reputations are just as "slick" at covering themselves and I've been taken twice, and I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the show dogs that I got.

I just recently got two "doodle" dogs -- why? because I wanted a mid-sized dog and frankly just preferred the "weird" and comical look of the two that I got. They make me smile just looking at them ...and as I've loved every breed coming & going, if they don't turn out to be pro-poodle or pro-other mix, it doesn't matter in the least to me. If they shed? so what! With my St. Bernards, I think I can handle some more stray hair around. So I didn't get these two under any misrepresentations by the breeders at all -- I just got them because I wanted a medium sized dog, and if they DO happen to shed a little less than my Saints, well, even better. I know enough about labs to know they're high energy and don't calm down for 4-5 years and I'm o.k. with that too. I didn't choose either of these two because I was naive or just out of cuteness alone. I really did CHOOSE these two because they were just what I wanted at this time in my life. As I'm now getting older, having to physically take care of another St. Bernard puppy is more than I could bear right now. (My dogs live indoors with me, and as such, they get bathed ALOT)

As for why choosing these two vs. a mutt from the pound (and I don't like to use that word on any dog as it has an insulting tone to it and I don't want to insult those at the pound either!) ....I don't think they know they are mutts, they just know they want to be someone's "one and only" .... but in our small town, we only have 2 rescue groups and both of those are VERY strange organizations. Their policies are so strict, that I can't see how they are benefitting the animals. Many people in this town feel this way, but both groups have a monopoly and many people have gotten disenchanted with their missions and don't support them anymore. As an example, they rarely let someone, who has other animals, adopt one of their animals. Another issue is that they make you feel like a criminal if you say you work during the day, etc. .....they woudl rather keep a cat in a crate for the rest of its life vs. trying to see if it can work in a home with dogs .... that kind of thing. Their rigid and inflexible beliefs cause many people to just look elsewhere. I just like shaggy, strange looking dogs, so I did find a breeder who had some goldendoodles. That started my search ....and I didn't pay a huge fortune for either of my poodle mix dogs (I was SHOCKED at what I found on the internet, when starting to look for a "doodle" mix dog===absolutely SHOCKED at the prices being asked for these mixed breed dogs). People sure are suckers, is all I can say!

Anyway, I now have these two and I love them dearly, but I feel like I should be ashamed if someone asks me what kind of dog they are -- I feel like I have to apologize if I say "labradoodle" or "goldendoodle", so I figured out that I didn't feel so badly if I said a poodle mix (thats my story and I'm sticking to it). I just don't like feeling guilty because I got these two puppies who are very near & dear to my heart -- I just like it that they're so cuddly & cute. I've had (and still do) have large, large dogs (St. Bernards) and while I was showing in conformation, I had extremely smaller dogs (Havanese) ....both breeds being extremely expensive ....and I never felt more important or prestigous with either of those breeds, but I certainly never felt GUILTY about having them either why am I feeling like I have to apologize for these two?

I'm wondering if others who have doodle mix dogs feel the same way -- like we're criminals because we chose these type of dogs? Mind you, I've been "taken" by crooks in the show dog world (at almost every turn) and I don't feel that way by this woman asking a small amount for what she put into the litter. Nothing more. The local dog rescue groups asks almost the same thing as what I paid for one of these dogs, so price has nothing to do with it.

I'm having a hard time making sense of all of this -- and I can see both sides of the coin too -- I don't agree with any breeder making money off their animals. And while the elitist show dog people like to pretend that money is not their highest priority, it definitely is with the majority that I met and dealt with. And I'm not naive about breeds and I certainly don't believe anything told to me, I've researched certain breeds for years & years, asked around, met dozens of breeders, got recommendations from others, etc. and still ....the bottom line was the "bottom line" and thats very disheartening.

Hmm, I guess I'm just venting out loud, but I would be interested in talking to other doodle-owners if they might have experienced some of these things that I mention.

Rochester, MN

September 10th, 2006, 08:29 PM
I hear your vent , however, the majority of us get upset when people come on here or other places and say something half witted like " Its a Pure bred Goldendoodle" or " I need to find a reputable ------- oodle breeder" and so on.
Ihave no quams with people owning and loving the mixes. Just as I dont mind other mix breeds, but when there are people out there who seriously believe this is a "breed" it ticks me off.
Its a fad, with a catchy name and people are buying into it unreal.
Filling up shelters by misleading people with promises of non shedding and so on.
When my Kita gurl passes ( god forbid) I would love to have another Rottie/Boxer mix, but im not gonna call around to people who have one of each and ask them if they are gonna breed so i can have another.

September 10th, 2006, 08:37 PM
I already answered in the other thread you posted in...:o

September 10th, 2006, 09:18 PM
I think the general rule around here is, love the individual dogs, curse the industry...

My dogs don't come from great breeders. One was an irresponsible accident, the other a planned experience (byb). We LOVE them and they are the best dogs ever to us, but I can't condone how they came into this world. That said, their parents' owners were not out to make 1000s of dollars from puppies either. The general feeling here is that 'doodles' are no different from other crosses who need homes. No one should be paying 2000 for a cross.

Welcome to the board, and don't feel you have to apologize for loving the dogs you have.

September 10th, 2006, 09:20 PM
I think the general rule around here is, love the individual dogs, curse the industry...
Exactly! :highfive:

September 10th, 2006, 09:23 PM
That would be a good moto around here

September 10th, 2006, 09:47 PM
Welcome to the board, and don't feel you have to apologize for loving the dogs you have.

Exactly. And :highfive: for the rest of your post as well. :thumbs up

September 10th, 2006, 11:11 PM
and thanks for your words of encouragement. I was completely flabbergasted when I saw some of the websites of goldendoodle breeders; what they are "asking" for their dogs, and how "official" they sounded. A sucker and his money will soon be parted and I guess there's some people that can't be saved from themself ... but its still disturbing to me just the same. Some of those kennels come across just as elitist as the show dog homes ... there's no real glory with some of those show breeders either who claim they only breed to preserve the breed, blah-blah-blah....I don't see any of them selling their pet puppies (those ones that they say are nearly perfect but have some small flaw that makes them ineligible for the show ring), for what they actually put into the litter. One lady admitted to me that she was glad that some puppies turn out not-quite-perfect because she doesn't have to attempt to show them (which costs her more $$$) and she's still able to make a lot of money off those just the same. All of this dog buying & selling & then dumping them off like disposable items, is really, really sad and I'm sure its gone on for years & years & years but I wish I didn't know all that I do know about it. I'm glad that there's not a snowball's chance in the world that these 2 puppies will be a part of that. I can do just as many fun things with them as I thought I could do with showing ....when I first got involved in showing (about 3 years ago), I was told how much "fun" it was .... a way to get involved and enjoy activities with your dog, a real experience to partake in together. What a joke. It was the most cutthroat, competitive, watch-your-back experience with people who claim they love their dogs "first". And they will just as easily help you unload your wallet as these others, just a tad bit more subtle. I'm just glad thats over and that I didn't get sucked too far into that world.

I think thats why it strikes me as so odd, these mixed-breed BYBs who claim to be so official and professional sounding. Of course, there are few that make no bones about what a commercial enterprise it is ....where you literally "order" the type of dog you want. One of them was just amazing, I'll never forget that one .... then there are so many others who give off such a warm and fuzzy atmosphere, how dedicated they are to the "breed" ... oh well, like I said, a fool & their money ... its just all so sad.

Thanks, everyone, though for listening to me vent!


September 11th, 2006, 01:28 PM
I think thats why it strikes me as so odd, these mixed-breed BYBs who claim to be so official and professional sounding. It's their job to sound professional. The more professional they sound (and the more they look like a reputable breeder) the more people they dupe and the more money they make.:(

September 11th, 2006, 03:37 PM
Thanks for your post. I've been thinking it for awhile but am not as well spoken as you are. I also bought what I thought was a doodle (the vet thinks she may also have border collie in her) I don't care. I bought her from an irresponsible owner whose poodle had a littler 'accidently'. :frustrated: (Stupid owner) I also didn't care about shedding and love high energy dogs. I love my pup's personality and looks. She's just what I wanted. All dogs come from somewhere - it's more important where they end up. And happily yours (and mine) ended up in well informed, loving homes. In the perfect world we'd have only responsible owners and 'breeders'. Sad we don't live in a perfect world but very happy to live with one of the results of that imperfect world!

September 13th, 2006, 11:12 PM
if you want to get really INFLAMED about something like this, ******* website and you will be flabbergasted ....their website is quite odd (has a cyberchick telling you where to go and what page, etc.) and there's a GREAT deal of selective rationalization going on there about their justification for what they do and their rights as citizens, blah-blah-blah....but its an eyeopener. I cannot imagine the average person, merely wanting a dog, to be railroaded like that (they must pick out the puppy for you -- under the pretense of knowing what is best for you & your family -- and there is absolutely no visitation allowed, for any reason, etc.). They're an investigation waiting to happen, thats for sure. I'm guessing that they have someone highly educated that works there who knows how easy "infiltrating their system" would be and they don't want to risk that. While the website does provide some good educational tips for a new person wanting one of their puppies, they're missing the forest for the trees. Churning out puppies, again and again and again and again can you look at yourself in the mirror and claim what you are doing is right? even if your "product" is a much-desired item and someone's going to be doing it (might as well be you?), its still a living breathing creature who deserves better than that and I'm just amazed at what is going on to keep these people in business. There's no attempt at glossing it over whatsoever, its like ordering a pair of shoes. Might take awhile to get the color your want, but put your name on a waiting list and you will be called when its your turn.

With that sort of behavior going on with these type of dogs right now, its no wonder that I feel guilty or embarrassed, because I don't want people to think that I'm fool enough to buy into that crap (because I'm not) and that I approve of that or that I jumped on the bandwagon of these hot new kind of dogs. They're only hot because of marketing gimmicks, and the media helping to hype them up, they've been around for years and no one paid much attention then. I've had a poodle mix back when I was a teenager and I dont' think anyone cared back then about my sweet Molly. Just me, I loved her. As for why I have these two, I know what I wanted and while I can't condone the whys and wherefores of how some puppies enter this earth, I did find two in front of me, and they're now living happily. And in my own way of selective rationalization (ha), I know THESE two won't be churning out babies after babies after babies, so I took them out of the circuit too. From one of my puppy's breeders, I also helped 5 other dogs find new homes, 5 dpgs who were not sold simply because of having (literally) "ugly hair" that no one wanted, and because of my connections, I helped the lady find homes for all those (they were free) I guess maybe I'm over-rationalizing there too, but I don't feel so badly about having gotten these two that I have, because I did also help 5 other unwanted dogs too. I didn't just grab mine and run....I saw somethign needing done and I had the means to help it along and I did it. Because of what I know now about this breeder, I want to stay somewhat associated with her (to help bring my connection of people wanting to rescue unwanted dogs and match them up with dogs she hasn't been able to sell), so I can't force my opinions on her but I try to point out, off-the-cuff, that the market is drying up, that there are so many breeders out there doing what she does, etc. etc. etc. and trying to point out an alternative choice to her (to stop breeding so many). This is a very hard and fine line for me to be tiptoeing across and I'm not sure how long I can do this. But I do feel good about having helped found 5 homes for dogs that were going to be killed eventually. Frankly, I really don't know if I'm helping or not. Maybe I'm enabling her to keep going if I continue to help her find homes for unwanted dogs? . I've only known here a few months and I'm sure this went on for many years before me (and likely to go on for many years after) but I've got to wonder if I'm doing the right thing or the wrong thing. I've haven't figured that out yet.

and now I'm sleepy and going to bed (LOL). good night everyone!